02:03:20pm, Saturday, April 27, 2024
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Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
This is to set a template for any class.
Get a representative committee of pullers, officials, and whomever should be involved. Come up with a guideline factoring whatever parameters the committee feels are important (horsepower, torque, weight, hp to weight ratio, safety issues, etc.) After coming up with a general metric, if a class exceeds the metric, components would be allowed in that class. If not, they would not be allowed. |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Chris Waegele
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Michael, you laid out the perfect situation I totally agree, but here is the reality, getting a representative amount of pullers that will be objective is nearly impossible, yes there is a few in every group that's willing to try to lead but you will find most pullers like to stay on the fence till after the fact, then come out and bash hell out of the people that made the decision, and give them 100 reasons they were wrong most of the time behind a keyboard not signing their name, this is sad but reality. |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
oRIGINAL Michal you have just explained the problem with pulling in all the classes that are made for a reason not for just the Hell of it.also your recommendation is Bull Crap not a sollution but the problem .Justs go back to the prostock class 10 to 15 years ago theres no since to start evolving this class into the prostock class thats already available as many said Grab your BALLS hit em with a hammer or whatever it takes to help grow a set then jump into the next class that takes some big boy pants and go get some Everry donkey or $$$ OUT THERE knows what the class rules are when they build if not they need to go sit in time out for a while to think about there crap and know what they want to do with it and pick on someone there own size |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Registered: 05/24/2013 Posts: 380 |
Hey Lewis, how much money has been spent on the top running llss's? |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Ford guy
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Top runners can be built for 60 grand pretty easy, the thing alot of people are overlooking is, most everyone in the class has already spent the money or theyve found an old super stock that was parked because of light super going component an made it a light limited super, thats the thing, not alot of completely new builds ( a few but not many ), i no of 2 that are being built now that were past super stocks - the old super stocks are the best platform for someone wanting to get in the class. |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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other side of fence
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That's great if you can find an old light super chassis........not everyone can. Or wants to.
Ask yourself this: If you were building fresh today (you have no chassis or tractor), which route would you go? AG or Component? To me it's a no brainer, component makes absolutely the most economic sense. Given the option starting from scratch, I'd never build from an Ag rear again. |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Ford guy
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First, there are alot of old super stocks around you just got to look an beat the bushes, their out there, with 25 to 30 tractors at any given time at a pull and to know that they will park if components are allowed ( it would be death of the class ) is a no brainer !!! With that being said, if i were to build new and was willing to spend the money id build component an go Super Stock an leave the guys alone that want their class to stay ag rearend --- AS ITS BEEN SAID PLENTY OF TIMES BEFORE ---- BUILD TO THE CLASS YOU WANT TO RUN -- DONT TRY TO CHANGE WHATS ALREADY PROVED OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO BE POPULAR WITH PULLERS,FANS, PROMOTERS AND ASSOCIATIONS !!!! ITS ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR FOR A REASON !!!! If you want components so bad why not go ahead an go Light Super Stock, if i was building new id rather take alil longer an save my money and do that. |
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? for Ford guy
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Ford guy, while I believe I have an idea what your reason for the quoted statement would be, could you spell it out for us? Why would components be the death of the class (saying 25-30 guys will park their tractors doesn't really answer the question). In your opinion, why would components kill the class/why would so many LLSS pullers park their tractors? Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2020 07:31AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: ? for Ford guy
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Ford guy
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Because everyone i talk to and run with have said -- we will park if the llss class goes component- quote unquote, now their will be a few that might ( i say that lightly ) might build a component, but i really doubt there would be over 5 do it, to me ( just my opinion ) that would kill the class -- if you remember back in the 90s there was alot of light super stock tractors at every pull going an coming from Ky to Missouri to Indiana to Michigan to Wisconsin, all over the pulling mid west -- now i have a question for you --- what happened when components were allowed in -- answer- your class went from 25 to 30 down to about 10 -- several pullers from back then quit just parked them, then LLSS was born an they had some place to go pull again, an guess what, theres 25 to 30 in the class again, if components are allowed the LLSS will dry up again ( AND A NEW CLASS WILL BE BORN ). We can have meetings right now and NOBODY wants components, only a handful want air-ride frontends ( i for one do want air-ride ) be it aint likely to happen, THE MAJORITY OF CLUBS AN PULLERS DONT WANT COMPONENTS !!! ITS VOTED ON EVERY YEAR, the ones that run an support the class by MAJORITY dont want anything changed. ITS WORKED FOR YEARS AND IS THE MOST POPULAR CLASS WITH THE MOST COLOR SO WHY MESS WITH IT - COMPONENTS ARE NOT WANTED OR NEEDED IN LLSS !!! |
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Re: ? for Ford guy
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other side of fence
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Have you ever given thought to how many people you keep out by not allowing components in?
No....I didn't think so. You're too busy repeating yourself and claiming you speak for all LLSS pullers. You refuse to consider any view but your own. And yes, I have a cast rear end right now. And I hate it. It's a pain in the a$$ to work on, and expensive to make custom parts for. But by all means, please tell us (yet again) how NOBODY wants them and EVERYONE will park what they have.....that never gets old! Lol! |
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Re: ? for Ford guy
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Ford guy
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Ok, ive gave you an example of how many will park, you havent gave any guarantee of how many will build a component for the light limited supers, you have yet to tell all of us that pull the class how many WILL build or want to go component, please give a guaranteed number -- if i was gonna go to the cost of starting over and of building a component I'll be damned if i would build for a limited class, id have the nads to go full in Super Stock an not mess up the best class going, but go ahead an ruin it, your bound an determined, have fun with the few tractors that do show up !!! |
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Re: ? for Ford guy
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Ford guy
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Other side of the fence ---- have you ever seen Mr Backers tractor listed in the post below run, he's making way more power than all of us an he runs Light Super Stock, with an ag rearend,if his holds together im doubting any of us will break one, he's probably ever bit 1000hp more than any light limited super running, i understand their easier to work on ( a component ) and no i dont speak for all the Light Limited Supers but i do know at the meetings its shot down by vote and there's noway i could do that by myself, majority wins, im just one vote, an i voted to allow air-ride frontends by it got voted down, but you have not seen me get on here an gripe an fuss, would they save frontends, sure, but until their voted in we'll go an pull the way we have been. |
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Re: ? for Ford guy
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other side of fence
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I honestly have no idea how many would be building component if allowed, I won't make claims I cant back up. I still doubt the numbers you say will park, but whatever. If that's the attitude they want to display then so be it.
I never once said it was a horsepower issue as to why I would build component. It has everything to do with serviceability and ease of build. Why is that a hard concept for you? I'm not trying to ram them into a class, but have trouble understanding how y'all think it's the end of the world if someone has one. Totally agree the air ride (suspension type) front should be an option in most classes......that just makes sense. But as with components, this will probably never come to pass either. Apparently there are too many stubborn eggs out there for that. |
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Re: ? for Ford guy
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Ford guy
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Other side of the fence --- first off, im not trying to argue with you at all, i understand they would be easier to work on, i totally get it, all im saying is, EVERYONE that speaks up when it is mentioned says absolutely not that they've already spent to money to lighten up an strengthen up their drivetrain- i just happened to be the one that commented on this post ) its put to a vote ever year an so far it not being excepted.U don't know if that many wood park eirher but they say they will or just start a new class, idk !!!! |
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Re: ? for Ford guy
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other side of fence
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Your voice has been heard here!! Lol!! Thanks for seeing both sides and understanding. I am well aware of the fact people have spent on what they have to comply and be competitive with Ag rears - I am in that same category as well. I just don't much like it.
My point was purely for someone starting from scratch (or craving a new build like me), given the choice what makes more sense and is a better investment? That's all. Just because I desire a well built, easily serviceable chassis should not mean I have to pick a GN class to do that. |
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Re: ? for Ford guy (Let's try this again)
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Ford guy, let's try this again. Your answer did not really answer the question. Saying everyone will park doesn't address the why. I'll ask again: In your opinion, why would components kill the class/why would so many LLSS pullers park their tractors? What is it about allowing components that (in your words) would cause many pullers to park? I'm not pro or anti component for the LLSS class, just want someone to clearly answer why. |
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Re: ? for Ford guy (Let's try this again)
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
I think with the lighter weight, the components would have an advantage because of the moveable weight of the component versus the ag chassis. When you watch videos of the 6000 lbs class , most could use another 2-300 pounds of front weight.
As for pullers in the LLSS class , I have had some say they would park it too. The LLSS pullers , I have found that they like to be on the the same page as to rules that works for their clubs. No not all have the same rules , but most could pull any where the want . And yes the die hard pullers would stay pulling with a strong voice . Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2020 01:16AM by David Runkle(earls dream). |
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Re: ? for Ford guy (Let's try this again)
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Ford guy
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The Original Michael -- Well most of them want it to stay a TRUE TRACTOR CLASS, all say they'd park- i don't know that they would- like Earl said, the weight is alot of it, mostly its they've already spent the money-- that may not be the answer your looking for, idk, im sure thered be some hp loss going through an ag chassis compared to a component -- the Oliver's were brought up numerous times, but the came from the factory like that, so cant say much there, but its been discussed several times. |
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Re: ? for Ford guy (Let's try this again)
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Ford guy
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Might be a good time for K Backer to chime in an tell why he wants to go component an get away from his ag chassis, im sure he's researched the pros an cons.!! |
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Re: ? for Ford guy
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Micheal, what has happened to the ULSS class over the last 20 years? |
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Re: To answer the question
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Great question! To give a more thorough answer without hijacking this thread about components, I created another thread NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues. Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2020 01:25AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: To answer the question
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?
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But heres one thing that your leaving out, most pullers that run LLSS are not huge farmers or big business owners, alot dont want to build over or cant afford it, some could an maybe would but i doubt they'd build new. Alot of people don't realize the money and work thats already been done to their existing tractor. As Ford guy said, it gets voted on every year or two and NOBODY running the class wants it !!! If someone is wanting to build a component, why not go ahead and build for a class already allowing them instead of tryn to change the LLSS class, i don't understand that--- one or two or a handful want components allowed so they can run but cause everyone ( approximately 50 or more all across the country )to rebuild is just crazy !!!! |
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Re: To answer the question
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?
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Most Light Super Stock pullers use to pull what is now LLSS, when the first component was built they either had to build new or continue to run an be 30ft back --- thats why alot parked back then an set until Light Limited was born, most didn't rebuild, some did, why do you think some light super guys run a light limited to -( because they had one just sitting ) ---- history repeats itself-- the class will split !!! And a new class started, its already happened once . |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 95 |
I will sell this chassis so I can build a component ....................... Its light and made of lots of good parts Currently ran as a cast LSS with Ne Bush and have also ran some with Outlaws Is a 505 alky with billet alum head and Wimer chargers right now .. would sell turn key also Keith 402-750-8652 |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Indiana farmer
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If you want an old light super call this guy. It’s just setting in the trailer 1317-625-2837 |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
The trans and rear parts cost around 3500.00 from Atlas to make a 560 IH rear end hold the Oliver 1800s rear ends can be done cheaper the 656 rear end can be done cheaper than the 560s because the stock carrier seems to hold up in them and dont the 560 Now some are starting to use the 84 series utility rear end i dont know what it takes for those but i do have one for sale super cheap if someone wanted one .What is the cost of a component rear end with transmission |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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Posts: 158 |
With some searching, I could build a rolling chassis with bell housing and transmission under $15,000 for a LLSS. Most expensive part would be wheels for the Mercedes planetaries. I'd also drop the weight to 5800lbs. |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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other side of fence
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Thanks for the info.......it's nice to get that for some perspective, that makes an Ag build look expensive to me.
Because I have quite a bit more than that in my Ag chassis as just a roller. But that's not how anyone wants to look at it apparently. I'm sure I will hear all about how an Ag roller can be built for half that. |
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Re: Another way to view whether to allow components or not
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? For other side of the fence
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If your wanting to build a component, why dont you go ahead and go super stock, if i were going to build a component I'd go ahead and go all in a light super if it took me another yr of setting out to be able to afford it, and thats just going by my finances not yours or anyone elses . |
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