NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 05, 2020 01:23AM
*** This was in response to a question about what happened to the USS class over the past 20 years on one of the component threads, but to avoid hijacking that thread, I will answer that question here. ***

Great question!
1. The ineptitude of NTPA leadership has been revealed. As of 2020, only ONE NTPA pull booked the class, while PPL had a full booked schedule prior to Covid. There is no reason NTPA couldn't have had a solid Open SS class.

2. See point 1. If memory is correct, NTPA allowed the articulated engines. Several pullers built them. PPL then adopted the rule. NTPA said "oops!" and changed their minds. The articulated motor tractors could only run PPL, but most of the v6 pullers also ran PPL. For 2021, NTPA capitulated, but maybe too little too late. I hpoe for their sake NTPA can get more bookings in 2021.

NTPA opened the door to allow these. PPL probably never would have allowed them had NTPA not done it first, then they lost dues paying members. Had they just left well enough alone to begin with, they would not have looked so bad in how they let theIr Open SS class wither on the vine.

To summarize: A) NTPA adopted a controversial engine rule (or did not enforce a grey area in their then-current rule depending on who you talk to... same difference), B ) their competition adopted the same rule. C) NTPA then rescinded the rule (or clarified existing rule), D) then those guys could only pull with their competition. E) After one year, NTPA, tail between legs, changes to basically adopt PPL's rule... which was NTPA' s rule to begin with.

Did I get that right? Great foresight and business strategy, NTPA. If you intentionally tried to kill your Open SS class, you couldn't have done a better job than what you wound up doing.
Forrest Lucas salutes you.

3. 20 years ago, the top alcohol tractors had a performance advamtage over the top diesel tractors. . Anybody who honestly looks at the accumulating data over the past few years should conclude that is no longer the case. As of right now, a top running GN DSS tractor at 540 ci can run with a top running v8 articulated USS tractor at 650 ci.

4. #s in the class dipped but have bounced back and stabilized. PPL has a very solid stable of pullers. If I only count non-LSS alcohol tractors (sorry Drunken Punkin), even with an abbreviared schedule, the following ran at a 2020 CT event :

Blackbourn x 3, Galot X 2, Lustik, Hull x 3, Hothem, Hirt/Turley x 2, Novinger, Gansemer, Metz, Shoemaker, Metzger, Battrell, Gettinger, Campbell/Jones, Long, Meese, and Barga (x 1 for this example but they debuted a second tractor at OSTPA this year). That's 23. For only 4 ( FOUR) hooks!!!

If I add the 2nd Barga tractor and consider in a normal summer, Keener, Gummershimer and maybe another couple may gave have ran an event in their area, the number only grows.

5 Pertinent to this topic (components in the other thread), as far as I'm aware most (if not all) of these are component. If the argument about going component is to look at the USS class to see what would happen, an honest answer would be the class would stabilize (as long as the pullers feel they are respected and paid appropriately).

However, see points 1 and 2. Components had nothing to do with why one USS thrives in one organization, and the other cannot stop shooting themselves in the foot.

The (alleged *) change in leadership of said organization does not seem to have changed anything as I hoped it would. Off topic, but I recently heard an interview with Shannon Leischner of the Boyd Pulling Team, I believe by Jason Schultz. You know how much $ they spent on screw blowers to run NTPA unlimited, right? Listen to his thoughts about which circuit Boyds may run in 2021. Hint- it ain't the shield guys.

That's my middle of the night, unfiltered answer to the past 20 years of the USS class.

PS, while I'm not positive of which ones are non-component, looking at all 3 major orgs plus several member states like Wisconsin, Mid South, and even ESP, the combined # of competitive alcohol LSS tractors (assuming most or all are component) is even higher than USS. Components have not killed the LSS class.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2020 01:31AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 05, 2020 06:02AM
Michael, why on earth did you post this dissertation ? Anybody that follows national pulling is well aware of this. Who said overall #'s of USS ? Also you say basically it is obvious the DSS can run with OSS. I see no evidence to support fact they can run with them and even less evidence that DSS pullers want to pull with OSS.
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Re: NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 07, 2020 01:44PM
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Greg k
Michael, why on earth did you post this dissertation ?
Re-read my first sentence. I was answering a question about the USS class in another thread about components, but the question prompted thoughts that mostly were not about components, hence it's own thread.

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Greg k
Who said overall #'s of USS ?
I did. Based on a 2020 partial season, PPL's Unlimited SS class is actually in good shape. MUCH better #s than NTPA's DSS class, and NTPA's Open SS class is basically on life support ready to unplug the machine.

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Greg k
Also you say basically it is obvious the DSS can run with OSS. I see no evidence to support fact they can run with them and even less evidence that DSS pullers want to pull with OSS.

If you see no evidence, it's because you choose to not see it, just like the Georgia Secretary of State says the video where the lady pulls out a box of ballots from under a table after telling observers to leave is "normal vote counting," or all the media who ignore the legitimate statistical anomalies and sworn affidavits in a few large cities in swing states, all of which swing one direction.

Off the top of my head: What were the results of the combined SS class at Louisville? Prelims- Galot and Blagrave within a foot. Finals, Blagrave/Hunt 2 and 3, beating Lustik and Blackbourn; Ross, only DSS in class, winning PPL USS hook at end of 2019. Various data points from Burge's pass at BG a few years ago, Beck blowing away Broughton at a Michigan hook last year and others. I could even use Kent Payne running competitive at Lynn, IN this year, among others. This is multiple DSS tractors running competitive with multiple USS tractors.

Funny, every time we get another accumulating data point, someone has to say "that doesn't mean anything.... it was a fluke." I would point out that eventually individual grains of sand combine make a sand dune. Whether the 2 classes will ever be combined, or even if DSS pullers want to, is beside the main point that right now, in 2020, the top DSS and top alcohol SS can run competitive with each other.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2020 02:06PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 07, 2020 03:06PM
Michael, Those are the weakest 'data points' I have seen as support for your rediculous belief that DSS will compete with the OSS headsup. Maybe if they had another 110 cubes and hitch height allowance.
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Uh, it's already been proven December 07, 2020 03:21PM
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Greg k
Michael, Those are the weakest 'data points' I have seen as support for your rediculous belief that DSS will compete with the OSS headsup. Maybe if they had another 110 cubes and hitch height allowance.

Honest question: How do you consider it a "ridiculous belief" that the two fuels can compete heads up when you have a DSS winning a PPL points hook last year and a DSS within inches of a multi-time defending NTPA Open SS champion earlier this year at the most prestigious indoor pull on the planet?

Newsflash - not only can they compete together but it's been proven on the track.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2020 03:25PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Uh, it's already been proven December 08, 2020 01:34AM
Michael, those are your data points to combine classes ? One hook won by DSS and a good finish on a 230 ft indoor track ? Are you serious ? Over the last 50 years I have seen many vehicles slide into great finishes at an event and not be close to winning distance ever again. So many factors could come in to play. Your sample size is insanely too small.
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Re: Uh, it's already been proven December 08, 2020 01:43AM
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Greg k
Michael, those are your data points to combine classes ? One hook won by DSS and a good finish on a 230 ft indoor track ? Are you serious ? Over the last 50 years I have seen many vehicles slide into great finishes at an event and not be close to winning distance ever again. So many factors could come in to play. Your sample size is insanely too small.

There are none so blind as those who will not see..

I provided other data points in my original post, and others have pointed out more in recent years. You either weren't paying attention, or willfully choose to ignore them. The fact that a DSS actually won a hook PPL USS hook is by itself prima facie evidence they can run together competitively. Eventually, enough individual grains of sand make a sand dune.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2020 01:46AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Uh, it's already been proven December 08, 2020 07:37AM
Although I try to never read your rambling dissertations I have followed this thread because it is especially stupid. I saw your other data points and they were even more rediculous than the two I mentioned. Surely you have something better to do or add than this crap.
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Re: NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 05, 2020 05:03PM
Michael, how is the PPL DSS class for numbers ???????
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Re: NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 06, 2020 04:41AM
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Pointer Outer
Michael, how is the PPL DSS class for numbers ???????

What in the absolute **** does that have to do with the price of rice in China??? When you have a faithful following of 12+ unlimited supers, why the hell do you worry with a class of 6 diesels??? PPL has two very well attended diesel classes on the Champions tour circuit..... PRO STOCK & SUPER FARM!!!
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Re: NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 06, 2020 02:37PM
How stupid do you think we are ? Why would you ask how PPL DSS Is doing ?
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Re: NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 06, 2020 08:19PM
mikey can be an idiot
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Re: NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 07, 2020 01:50PM
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da ?
mikey can be an idiot

Translation: I can't dispute your point so I'll call you a name.
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Re: NTPA: How to kill a class and lose membership dues December 07, 2020 02:24PM
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The Original Michael

mikey can be an idiot

Translation: I can't dispute your point so I'll call you a name.

Well Michael, any one that posts their name as da ? has to be DUH. Now that's just my opinion and I don't expect any one to agree with it. And Michael, it takes all kinds to make the world go around. smh



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2020 03:14PM by Supertiquer.
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