01:21:26am, Friday, May 10, 2024
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Case in the outlaws
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wanna pull
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I was looking for some info on why there aren't any Cases pulling with outlaws. I wouldn't mind hooking to see how I would do but I can't seem to find any rules. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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There is
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No associations have many Case tractors that pull with them, Just not many around. In Outlaws 1 Case from Nebraska & 2 from Kansas pull in the Unlimited Light Super and 1 Case from Nebraska pulls in the Light Super Stock class. There was a Case Pro Stock from Nebraska that pulled some and 2 Case super farms that pulled some years ago. I think they can pull in 5 out of the 6 tractor classes that Outlaws offer. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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My advice
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to you is if they let u pull in outlaws don't do well or they will kick you out as you will be a dreaded member of the big block club....
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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not really
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The two black cases never ran with Outlaws in the Limited Pro Stock class before the bore canter rule was put in place. Now with the aftermarket heads and bigger pumps they couldnt meet the rules anyway. Outlaws has a class for the the bigger spenders, it is called Pro Stock. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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Think agan
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Your wrong, its not pro stock its their other limited pro stock class with the box turbo that never breaks. ask Jerry Runow about it. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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everything breaks
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After about 50 hooks in 2 years and a points championship, Jerry finally popped a charger. Big deal, how many others have broke thier big turbos and had to spend a lot more money to fix or replace. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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my advice
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if that's the case why did he put a big charger on and quit running outlaws? |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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who knows
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Only Jerry can answer that. He picked up a lot of $1000 winning checks in Outlaws these last two years. Probally close to 20 wins and the competition was starting to even out as he got beat the last few hooks and then lost a charger. He didnt like the turbo rule and had to drive a long ways to hook Outlaws and maybe decided it was time for a change. Gary Porter has took his place with a cookie cutter Riverside Engine and looks, sounds, and runs the same as Jerry,s tractor, taking 2 wins and 4 seconds at the last 6 hooks of the season taking in about $5200. Life goes on. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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are you sure
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If memory serves me corectly Jerry got to run a columbus cgr 2 yr ago but they made him go to the hyper mabey not so many runs as you thought. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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man that 1 poster sure knows alot....
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Sounds like he's got it all figured out,.....except for one thing ........outlaws don't have a Prostock class!
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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Registered: 01/29/2010 Posts: 58 |
So what is wrong with the Outlaw Prostock Class. Seems to work just fine. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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neighborhood kid
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As long as the sandbox you play in stays REALLY little, it is easier to be a big boy. That is why Duggie has the large charger limited pro stock class as well as the smaller charger limited pro stock class, and the rules are different than anyone else around, so's Duggies kids has to stay and play in Duggies sandbox.
Till they see the light and go buy some REAL parts and start playing in the bigger sandboxes. It is also easier to be a big boy in the little outlaw sandbox, if'n you is Duggies customer. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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Registered: 01/29/2010 Posts: 58 |
Wow... That's a intelligent answer. They ( the outlaw prostocks )seem happy. If not , they would go to a different sand box |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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In theory....
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It's not prostock when the turbo in LIMITED. However if you see the need to insist that it is prostock then to each his own!
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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neighborhood kid
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Let's see if we can count.
1) Ruhnow 2) Carson I guess that's only 2 large charger limited pro stocks. So far. If Duggie keeps going, he'll have the dirt slingin deere back on top. Just process of elimination. The reason he kept the Outlaw name for HIS association? He just Outlaws everyone that beats his customers. "If you can't beat them, ban them" Sound like something you have heard from the "top" management of Outlaws before?? |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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what neighborhood
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Not for sure what neighborhood you are from, but not appereantly from Outlaw territory. So you are saying Ruhnow couldnt beat any Roberts customers so he left. Look at the results from last two years. The Outlaw pullers in the class make their own rules and Roberts does not sell the turbos they run, so what is your problem. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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neighborhood kid
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If you think the competitors in the class (ANY CLASS) actually have any say in the rules, you REALLY don't know what goes on in "Outlaw" country. Outlaws isn't owned by the pullers, and the owner sets rules as he see's fit. Sometimes they are good, sometimes, not so good.
Also, didn't say Ruhnow couldn't beat anyone, quite the opposite, he is (was) kicking butt and he DOESN'T use Roberts Machine, so he needs to be run off, so the little boys left in the sandbox, can be big boys again. Bad news is, a different Deere boy moved in to take Jerry's place! And since he is also not a Roberts Machine customer,wonder how long it'll take to figure out how to run him off? |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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wondering
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what organization does Jerry pull with now? |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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wanna pull
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I don't understand the bore center rule. I still haven't found any rules yet. What your saying is I can pull some classes but not others? What are the limits on the other classes, do they not let other tractors run as well? |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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get a rule book
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Call and get a rule book if so interested in Outlaws. It is all spelled out for you in the rule book. Bore limits, cubic inch limits, weights, drawbars, turbos, etc. for all the different classes. No bore limit in the Super Farm, Super Stock or Pro Stock class. Bore limit in Pro Stock Trucks, 4 wheel Drive Trucks, & Limited Pro Stock classes. |
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Re: that is what I want
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wanna pull
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That is what I am asking for SMART @SS!!!! Where do I find the rules.With people like you around that would explain why people don't care much for OUTLAW pulling. |
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Re: that is what I want
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Really wanna pull
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If you really wanna pull and the rules are so important to you, go to the Outlaw website and look up the numbers to call yourself. Heck they may send you a free sucker with the rule book. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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Riddle me this... why is big bore center only an advantage in the light limited pro class????????????? |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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answer to the riddle
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Most pullers in the class are Roberts Machine customers. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Derek S
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To be honest there are only two tractors in the LPS class that are associated with Roberts and neither won the points. There are only two prostocks that are associated with Roberts and neither of them won the points. Both points champions came from Nebraska and if you ask any of the competitors they would say great. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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Seriously how is bore center only an issue in one class????? |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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info
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not to defend doug on the big blocks, but the barnyard beast pro stock he used to run years ago had a big block in it. so he might know a little about the advantages. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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no it didn't. it was a small block. still doesn't make sense that the advantage is only in one class |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong info.
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Joker it isn't to hard to figure the advantage, You can run a bigger bore and shorter stroke than a small block and change valve stem placement and run bigger valves and flow more air and fuel = Advantage! |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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Ok then why does this "advantage" exist only in one outlaw class? |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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my opinion
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I remember reading the bore center letter that Doug wrote and it made a lot of sense. A lot to do with the stock OEM heads mandated in the Limited Pro class compared to aftermarket heads in the big Pro Stock class. In the Super Farm class the little 3 inch turbo was the limiting factor in that class not the OEM heads. Good letter and lots of info, but do not have a copy. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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I read that letter too, it had about as much entertainment value as this post 
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to wrong info
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joker
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I think maybe you mistook my meaning i wasn't referring to your post about the letter but rather the whole bore center issue. sorry if it mislead you |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Roberts letter
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DATE: 11/6/09
TO: Board Members, Limited Pro Stock Competitors FROM: Doug Roberts, OTTPA President First of all I want to thank all the Limited Pro Stock competitors for participating with OTTPA. To my surprise only 3 of the 13 tractors were from the Super Farm class (Grand River Deere, Risky Business, and Tradition). The new Limited Pro Stock Tractor class that was started in 2008 has gone over well with our fans and promoters. It has also gone over well with our competitors as it started out last year with 6 tractors and is up to 13 tractors this year. It had 17 hooks this past year and will go to over 20 hooks in 2010 as promoters want this class. The price of $2500 this year was a bargain and with 4 new tractors for 2010 the purse has been raised to $3500, paying out 10 places. The entertainment value and numbers in this class are getting better each year. The new 4.1 Turbo has worked well and has been reliable. I want to thank Diesel Performance Engineering and Excel Engineering for working together to make this happen. In 2009 the top 5 tractors each had from 1 to 4 wins, and the class average was less than 2 feet between these tractors. When we wrote the original rules for this class it was all about keeping the cost down, fair competition, and less breakage, which all leads to more participation and multiple winners. We knew the mistakes that were made in the Pro Stock class that led to lots of expense, and maintenance, which led to fewer, and fewer competitors. These rules have worked well for fair competition until this year. The big block John Deere with a .625 inch wider bore center has started to dominate this class. We knew this might be a problem, and in the original rules for this class we recommended a 4.875 bore limit hoping this might solve the problem. It has not, as the advantage of the wider bore centers is too great of an advantage to over come even with the bore limit of 4.875. Last year we had no big block John Deere’s or any other brands with a big bore center hook at any OTTPA events. We did not learn anything last year for this reason. When you look at the rules put in place such as same turbo, injection pump, fuel, water, cubic inch, tires, plus add in the modern drop sleds we use now, these distances should be close. And they are for all the competitors that have around a 5.375 bore center. The top 7 tractors in OTTPA are close in competition, except for the one John Deere big block tractor. The other 6 are built by 5 different engine builders; Busch, Brackett, Riverside, Roberts, VanGenderen, and most have pulled both years in this class, and have computers to tune engines for maximum performance. The John Deere big block was built by Lance Little. He does a good job of building engines, just as the other 5 builders mentioned in this class, but you do not see his engines dominate in the Pro Stock or the Super Farm class. Why this class only? The problem with fair competition in this class starts with the OEM head rule in coordination with the bore center of the engine. The larger the bore center, the more room you have for better ports without interference from head bolts, push rod holes, and water jacket, etc. Also the larger the bore center, the stock bolt pattern for the manifolds increases in dimensions, and stock bolt pattern is one of the rules. One example of this is a customer of mine in the Super Stock class is having problems with the stock John Deere OEM head on his tractor. When the ports are opened up for more air flow the livability of the head goes down from cracks, etc. He decided to go with a Riverside billet head because the manifolds he uses now would bolt on without any modifications. Riverside let him know if they stay with the stock OEM bolt pattern the air flow would be 50 CFM’s less than if they made the manifold bolt pattern larger as they do on the Pro Stock billet heads. Just the opposite happens when the bore center of the engines are less. This is why we have just one Ford in the Super Farm class, and only one Allis Chalmers in this class. When you add the stock OEM head to the rules in this class it compounds the problems. The smaller bore center handicaps these engines so much it is hard for them to be competitive with a 640 cubic inch limit. This is why Fords do better in the 505 cubic inch Light Super Stock class, and the AC does better in the Super Stock class with a 540 cubic inch limit, especially when they use aftermarket heads. The AC can now put in the Detroit/ Navistar engine to be competitive in this class. An engine builder looks at lots of different things when considering what is the best engine to build for different forms of motorsports. Things such as main caps, pan rail width, head bolt location, deck height, cam location, etc, but none makes a greater difference than bore centers. This limits you on how big the piston can be, how big the ports & valves can be, how much room you have for head bolts, push rods, injectors or spark plugs, etc. All these lead to better air flow, which leads to better performance and livability. When you look at different classes in OTTPA pulling we see the same bore center problems, and some classes already have bore center limits. In the OTTPA Pro Stock 4x4 Truck class we have had only one Dodge pull with us in 10 years. The class has a 485 cubic inch limit, but because of the smaller bore center on the Dodge 440 wedge engine it is not as competitive. The Dodge bore center is 4.800 inch and when compared to 4.900 inch bore center on the 460 Ford and 454 Chevy this .100 difference in bore centers makes it hard to have fair competition. In the OTTPA Modified 4WD Truck class we have had only one Hemi pull with us in 10 years. The class has no cubic inch limit, but because of the bore center on the Hemi is 4.800 inch compared to 4.900 inch on the Ford and Chevy, and 5 inch on aftermarket engines, it is not as competitive. OTTPA competitors voted in a maximum 5 inch bore center rule 3 years ago. NTPA has had this maximum 5 inch bore center rule for years and they also have a 650 cubic inch limit in this class. Why do both associations have a maximum bore center limit, even with a cubic inch limit? Fair competition and cost. With V-8 engines there are billet blocks available over the 4.900 bore center limits of stock OEM blocks, and even over the 5 inch limit of the class. With these you can have billet camshafts, billet crankshafts, and billet heads made to match any bore center block you choose. Some engines are now available over 800 cubic inches. If some compititors went with these larger bore center engines they would have an unfair advantage over their fellow competitors, unless they also wanted to spend the $80,000 plus for these engines. This unfair advantage and higher cost would lead to less and less competitors. In the Modified 2WD Truck class, and the Modified Tractor class you see a lot of the hemi engines. With the smaller cubic inch, the hemi and OEM chevys engines are competitive in these classes. With a blower engine compared to a natural aspirated engine, a lot of these hemi and chevys run a 4.375 to 4.5 engine bore. Just like the Ford and AC in the super stock classes, when the bore size is smaller the bore center distance is not as important. This is why we were hoping a 4.875 bore limit on the 640 cubic inch Limited Pro Stock class might even the competition with the big block John Deere. We were wrong. With the Ford and AC you are looking at .250 or less bore center distance when compared to most of the other engines in this class. With the big block John Deere you are looking at .625 more bore center distance than most of the other engines in this class. This is just too much to overcome for fair competition. Another example of this is in the Pro Stock class there are just 2 tractors left that do not run billet heads. One is a small block John Deere (The Bad) and it most generally finishes at the bottom of the class. On the other hand a big block John Deere (Unnatural Disaster) has won many times and finishes near the top of the class. They have the same cubic inch, injection pump, turbo, fuel ,water, etc. The big difference is the bore center difference and how it affects the OEM heads. Sometimes a tractor has an advantage if it is the first hook on a well packed track, and sometimes if it is the last hook on a track that is getting better with each hook. When I look at the 5 wins for Bad Mamma Jamma this was not the case. He drew 7 out of 10, 4th out of 7, 2nd out of 5, 6th out of 8 and 4th out of 7. The draw number did not matter. One issue that concerns me about the big block rear end is the fact that it is so large in physical size that you are able to put a truck rear end in the housing just like the component Pro Stock and Modified tractors have. This is the case with the Bad Mamma Jamma. Some other advantage to big bore engines is that they are less likely to have engine problems with thicker sleeves, head gaskets, etc. When you have engines such as the Dodge, Hemi, Ford or AC in a class with a performance disadvantage it does not hurt the class numbers, you just do not get many of them to hook in the class. The big difference is when you have one brand or engine that has a performance advantage it will hurt the numbers in the class. You will end up with everyone having to run that brand or engine to win and have too many of the same vehicles while all the rest will quit because they are not competitive. It is for all of these reasons I recommend a maximum 5.375 inch engine bore center in the OTTPA Limited Pro Stock class. Enclosed is a chart that shows the different engines and bore centers. Also enclosed is past paperwork on this class and my hand written notes for my facts and figures. The board will get your input at the class meeting and vote on this. Right now we have 2 tractors that hooked in this class over the recommended bore limit. Bad Mamma Jamma and Dave Fleming (5020 JD). Next year it could be 6 big block John Deere tractors. The Ritters have 2 tractors, Lee Jensen and Bill Miller each has one. These tractors can either drop down to the Super Farm class or jump up to the Pro Stock class. Last year on the Western Sweep the Limited Pro Stock class was not offered so Bad Mamma Jamma hooked twice in the Pro Stock class and finished 5TH out of 11 tractors at both Hinton and Carroll. One other Limited Pro Stock tractor (The Mean Farmer) hooked at both events and got beat by Bad Mamma Jamma by an average of 10 feet. The same results we saw all year in the Limited Pro Stock class. This is a popular and growing class and this need to be dealt with now to keep this class growing in the right direction. Another issue that is going to become a problem in this class, and also the Super Farm class is stock OEM heads. Right now there is performance improved poured heads available to replace OEM heads in pulling. This is against the rules and I will have to get with Tech and see how we are going to enforce this. Some have questioned the no HP pulling tire rule. This was back to the original rules for keeping the cost down in this class and also I want to keep as much difference in this class compared to the Pro Stock class. When a Limited Pro Stock jumps in the Pro Stock class the announcer can talk about the difference (HP tires, sigma pump, billet head, 4.8 turbo, 680 cubic inch, etc.) Some say they do not make this tire anymore and that is true. There are still a few new ones available, but for now there is a great supply of these available at a cheap price from Super Farm and Pro Stock pullers that have switched to the new HP,s. You can get these used tires for under $2000 that are like new compared to about $7500 for new HP,s. When and if the time comes to switch tires it needs to be announced at least 1 or 2 years in advance so someone does not buy tires for only one year. Just like the turbo rule in the Pro Stock class. Thanks, Doug |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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After reading the letter and Chris' posts the conclusion i've drawn was at that point in time Lance Little's engine building abilities were far above those listed in the letter and as stated the bore size and head were not outside of the rules provided or suggested. Since that time the small bore center engines have proven this so called advantage hasn't quite lived up to the hype generated by "the letter". |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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leave it alone
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Regardless of who you might think is a better engine builder, now or then, leave this class alone. Outlaws has the best class of 4.1 tractors with the most different winners, and had close to 15 to 20 at most events in just the 4th year of this class. Had 21 at Jefferson City and different winners each night, what a great pull that was. Heard the purse was going up to $4500 from the $4000 this past year and also 5 new tractors for this class in 2012. I know of 3 different promoters that have also asked Doug for the limited pros next year. Cant wait for the Western Farm Show to see them again. Thanks, Outlaws. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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what it proves is legal or illegal, superfarm limited pro or whatever, only select few are allowed to play in the sandpile..... Unless numbers are low and special invites are sent out |
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Re: is that fun
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no good class
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To mister "leave it alone" How and why do YOU think it is a good class when there isn't any competition? You have cooky cutter tractors all the way through. I as a fan and puller think that sucks. The only thing the bore center ruling did is take any of the competitors that had the balls to build something other than a betty crocker tractor. YOU say its a good class !!! A good class of what 15 1066 belly's and 5 4010 belly's come on YOU can't honestly say that, that is actually good competition. Tell me what other pulling organization in the world has a bore center rule for tractors. The red tractors can run anything they want and it's legal but beat them tractors a couple times and rules are changed to make sure it doesn't happen again. I say BA HUMBUG to YOUR good class. Part of pulling is figureing out what works best and where but evidently color doesn't work anywhere THEY win. Thats to bad OUTLAWS are afraid of the Cases,BBdeeres and all the rest of the color that could have possibly built for the class.
Oh 1 more thing if the bore size was limited that would fix all your bore center problems but it won't happen because you don't want color to kick your but again. |
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Re: is that fun
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whine, whine, whine
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The one thing the bore center and other rules do is keep the whiners, cheaters, and trouble makers out of Outlaws. Go run your big bore centers, big pumps, aftermarket heads, billet turbos, HP tires and out spend the competition, then kick all the other legal tractors butt, and see how the class numbers are in the future. Outlaws has a class for the big spenders, it is called pro stock. Why dont you hook that class if you want to spend that kind of money and rules. Outlaws has this limited pro stock class rules just right and hope they leave it alone. I saw the class many times this year, and wouldnt change a thing. |
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Re: is that fun
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sandbox, sandbox, sandbox
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yep that's why a perfectly legal tractor kicked you alls butt for one summer and then got kicked out by the whiners who couldn't see through the fog. Outlaws offers 2 limited prostock classes one at 640 one at 680 both limited by turbo size. Past threads on this website have shown where most of the members of your first sentence prefer to pull. |
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Re: is that fun
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Outlaw rules
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At least with Outlaw rules the sandbox will stay full and give the spectators lots of vehicles in a class, while the rest are on the same trail the big pro stocks took and the numbers will get less and less as the big spenders and cheathers win all the time. History has already proven that! |
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Re: is that fun
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?
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There are plenty of big spenders in outlaws, why do you think our equipment runs and looks the way it does? |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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James
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I was looking for something else and came across this. Over a dozen years ago Roberts was way ahead of the game. Now almost all big pros in arhat run almost any sheet metal run the JD big blocks. Plus his turbo limits he put on classes over 15 years ago are now coming to other associations. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong info.
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Really??? Is that the only lame response you could come up with? Give it up your starting to look childish. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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Yes really! Why don't you tell me where big bore centers dominated a limited pro class or season anywhere in the country this year? I saw a small block deere do as well as anybody. Maybe i am childish just not "clique"ish..... |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong info.
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Are you writing a freaking book? You must be a a child with all stupid questions... If you want to know who's won what and dominated what learn how freaking read and look at the results... Instead of sounding like an 8 year old why don't you come up with constructive. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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Haha ok! We'll call it a response to the letter. With some research of badger state, ppl, nebraska bush, mstpa, and x calibur results, i've found that the big bore center tractors are fairly evenly matched in placings with their small bore counterparts. An mstpa race between a bbcjd and a sbih shows the sb winning four and one tie with the bbcjd taking 3 wins and one tie and the bbcjd is leading the points by 1 with one hook remaining. So where's this smoke and mirrors advantage? Seems like some good competition to me and a more well rounded show for the fans. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong info.
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Hey good job Joker you get a gold star!! Now for extra credit why don't you get all the win's and distances and figure the % like Doug likes to do and it will help your side of the argument...I look foward to reading it, but I think you better try to shoot for letting them put a bore limit than just let them run like they are, that's not gonna happen. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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Thanks! Instead of wasting all that time on distances and percentages as was in a previous letter, let's just discuss bore size. 5 inch maybe? |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong info,
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Haha, Joker joker joker you would love Outlaws to run a 5in. bore recast head, run any fuel, Michigan water and run what you brung type class wouldn't ya? lol Thats not going to happen.... The best limited pro class would have been 4 3/4 bore @ 585 ci would make the best class then all colors could have built for it... I know the super whiner are gonna complain but who cares? They have the tendency to complain!! lol |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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no not really, same rules just 5" bore |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong info.
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You know 5in. isn't gonna fly, the small blocks can't reach that size bore so you should shoot for a smaller bore size... I know the 2 or 3 that are already running 5in. bore are gonna complain but if you want to run with Outlaws there are pullers that would step up for you if you would drop that bore size down and vote to let you back in... |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Posts: 25 |
My motor was 4 7/8" bore, same as mean farmer FYI, but PPL has a great 4.1 class that is up and coming, leave things the way they are, seem to work better for all organizations. Chris Meints meintsfarms@gmail.com |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong info.
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I didn't know what size bore you had, I had heard you and the other big blocks were running recasted heads though... Did you have it when you ran with Outlaws? I know your ticked off @ the Outlaws and I don't blame ya, but I would like to see them look at the rule again for other puller's that are wanting to build a bb and run with Outlaws.. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Posts: 25 |
I did not have a recast head when I ran with outlaws, ask Doug he saw it up close lol! Why would you want to run a big block in the outlaws even if they changed it, once you beat them they would be pointing fingers again anyway. Plenty of great places to pull a big block 4.1 where you won't haft worry about somebody crying unfair advantage. Chris Meints meintsfarms@gmail.com |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong info.
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I think its a bad deal there was a ban on the big blocks and I understand your dislike for them, but I still like the Outlaws and some of the rules they have in place, I would rather run where they have rules set and they enforse them... |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Posts: 25 |
Wrong info... give me a call 402 450 8250 Chris Meints meintsfarms@gmail.com |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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joker
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Yeah, like the superfarm class for example lol or how bout inviting tractors that aren't legal to boost the show? Haha sorry couldn't resist
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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ok look the only tractors of roberts that are doing good are the grande river deere tractors and barn buddy...but the points champs in the super farm and prostock classes are both from norm kavan and the LPS class winner came from joe busch |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong Info.
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You got the wrong info it was a small block, I think Outlaws dropped the ball on this rule they should have put a bore size limit rather than ban big blocks from this class and stuck with OEM heads, No recast Case big block Deere or Hyper heads and that would have kept a cheap and even playing field. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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BBD LPS puller
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bore limit would have been a much better call. Doug didn't like to see Meints's motor having 4 7/8 bore. He made the call to soon. There are plenty of IH and small block Deeres that whipped up on the Cases, Ritter, Meints and Waegle this year. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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jD4LIFE
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This winter they should bring the subject up and have a class vote to let the BBJD's in or not, Meints just came into the lps ready to go all tuned up and the rest of the class was just getting going which is why he was looking so good. Just my opinion (For all the doug haters just stop bashing him it gets old after awhile and doesnt accomplish anything but make you look stupid) |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Wrong info,
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I agree it should be brought up again,stick with bore limit and I don't see that big of a deal with the recast heads as long there patterned from a oem head and the valves are in the stock location,but im sure there are those that would get there pantys in a bunch if they let them.lol..... I would like see a bunch of big blocks running in the middle of corn country,the way it is there's just 1 in the pro class. |
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Re: what is the bore center rule
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Bubby
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You left out the part that Chris Little built his motor, thats how many years exp? with big blocks? |
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OUTLAW MENTALITY
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outsidelookinin
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The ONLY problem with big blocks was that Christopher Meints won 5 Outlaw hooks in 2009. When all the main competitors in the class (Roberts machine customers) decided that they could not beat him, they decided that he HAD to be overcubed. When the smoke cleared and the money was put up to tear down his engine ole Doug was quite amazed to find:
531 block OEM head 4 7/8 bore 640 cubes!!! A completely LEGAL OUTLAW 4.1 tractor built to his specs! The only thing that a good reputible tractor builder west of the mighty Mississippi could do is BAN any tractor that could possibly beat any good paying customer that he had. That still leaves a question unanswered... how was he able to win five hooks so easily? It has nothing to do with a big block or small block, green or red. Any seasoned puller knows, when a tractor comes out in the middle of the season; fresh engine, fresh tires, fresh pump, fresh turbo....he has the advantage and will have over any tractor that has ran all season. Truth is as the new wears off so does the advantage. |
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Re: OUTLAW MENTALITY
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Get a life
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Why bring this crap up again. You forgot the part about the recast head on Chris,s tractor. Outlaws class is the best out West and one thing the rule did is outlaw all the cheaters out West. There is plenty of other classes in Outlaws they can pull in or other associations they can pull in. |
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Re: OUTLAW MENTALITY
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4 Get a life
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I believe his post said OEM head. I think Chris said that on this thread also. And I have come to find out those who scream cheater the loudest are probably the ones cheating. |
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Re: OUTLAW MENTALITY
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cheater?
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Outlawed the cheaters? Last I checked chris got 500$ of shacklefords protest because he showed his "illegal" motor? Doug saw his OEM head wise guy....just admit it if you can't hang with one of the top 4.1 tractors in the country so you had to change the rules |
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Re: OUTLAW MENTALITY
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ChrisMeints
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I rarely get on pulloff anymore thanks for the flashback whoever got this thread back up 12 years later! The things I would tell my 25 year old self then! haha |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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just the facks
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You can write a book on this subject.The reason you run a big block is because you fell like you have an advantage.Not because they are less expenseve to build.The BB JD head will flow 30% more before you even start!ALL MAJOR MOTORSPORT ORGS. LIMIT BORE SPACINGS.When you unsroud the valves you increase air flow FACT.Let alone the fact that NO JD TWD agtractor came with a late model 619.In superfarm with the three inch charger there is no advantage.IN any class above that there is an advantage. ON the subject of aftermarket heads,the cases would have ben gone long ago with out them(they run them in NTPA&OTTPA superfarm) If you want to play this game this is what you do. 5in. bore or larger OEM head only.4.875 or smaller you can run a aftermarket head.Now who has the advantage?Come on boys lets play fair! |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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Explain this
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Factory replacement for the 531 is the 619. U state the 3 inch charger nullifies the "30% airflow advantage" but after that it is of huge significance. Why then does the big block not dominate on any level above and including superfarm? Why did a 4 7/8 bore oem head big block get voted out of outlaws? |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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Just A Fan
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As a fan you guys have made this sport just like every other sport....., you need rules yes., but you need a show. This class is the best class there is and if you want to sit around and bitch about the rules then your in the wrong sport get into something else. |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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Your are dumb
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Meints's tractor ran outlaws with a 531 block, 4.875 bore and an oem head. You're an idiot. All comes down to who builds the best horsepower to the ground ratio anyway, we're not pulling a dyno for competition are we? Lets see your 30% from the start on the head, im sure you have a flow bench on your computer keyboard as well dummy.... |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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Heres what I have found.
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To start with we are running a 531 not a 619 like everyone likes to think. We had this motor built (we thought) so we whould never have to work on it running the 4.1 class. Recast head,billit crank, and billit rods. Third hook of the year we kicked #4 out the side of the block. Now who are we going to blame for this? The answer is nobody. Iv'e been around this sport a long time and these kind of things just happen with high performance motors. Our engine builder is second to none and we will stand behind him till the bitter end! Sometimes parts just break, for whatever reason. This much I know, you can put all the limits on you want, it will still break! Bottom line is if you cant afford to run the class, dont try to make rules so its cheaper because, it wont work. Thats just my opinion.
Chris Waegele |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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Outlaw Rules Are Here
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[outlawpulling.com]
click on rule book |
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Re: Case in the outlaws
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Back To The Future
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Are these todays rules or 12 year old rules like this thread? |
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