02:40:27pm, Sunday, April 28, 2024
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Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
I am very confused about the Whoopi Goldberg controversy. First let me say that I'm not a fan...at all...and disagree with most every thing the she says. Having said that I will say this, I think she was more right than wrong in what she said. I've done a little research because I'm confused and what I've found is that there are 4 basic races and Judaism isn't one of them. Just because Hitler said that the Jews were an inferior "race" doesn't mean a thing in fact that would be all the more reason to not believe it.
She said that it was mostly an inhumanity towards a religion and I don't know about anyone else but that is the basics of what I learned many many years ago in school. The words White Supremist gets kicked around in these United States but there is nothing in this country that even comes close to what the real words meant back in the day. Why are people getting away with changing the definition of words and not getting called out on it? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't get it! S'no Farmer |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I'm no cultural anthropologist but I don't think there is one absolute definition of "race". Yes, there is are modern definitions of race that have either 4 or 6 major races but there's still not consensus on that and that small number of grouping hasn't always been the case. And all experts still don't put all people groups into those same 4 or 6 categories, different experts group people into races based on the traits they think are most important, for some it's skin color, for some it's eye shape, for some it's other physical traits... there's no clear objective standard.. The way we categorize people into races has changed over time. At one point (100-200 years ago) here in the USA Italians or Irish were not considered the same race as other Americans with European origins. We looked at Jewish people as a different race back then as well. Today we generally consider all of them them white but that's a recent thing. Many people from India look more like Arabs but some experts group them with Asians and some don't. Some put Arab people group with Asians some don't. Are Pacific Islanders Asian? Some say yes, some say no. Where do Native Americans get grouped? What about Inuit, are they Asian or a separate race, or should they be lumped in with native Americans. Some people from South American have Incan heritage, some look very different and don't have any Incan in them. It's not as clear cut as 4 groups for many experts.
The Nazi's stated goal was to create a master race. They didn't go after the Jews because of the region the lived in... they went after them because they saw them as an inferior race. They weren't white/Arian to them. For them it was completely about race. Sure they had similar physical traits but they saw them as a completely different race. In fact they made them wear a star specifically because they looked so similar but they were still considered a different race. They didn't view their Italian allies as the same race as them either. Just because our view on race is different now days, we can't look back at history through our lens. The Nazi's also wouldn't have stopped at the Jews. Their goal was anything other than the Arian race. it wasn't just inhumanity toward the same people group. I think the problem with Whoopi's comments is that they expose here view of race... she lumps all whitish people together. I'm guessing she's sees the world as White,,, Black... Other... (and "Other" is now simply considered "White adjacent" by many now days) and it's a little more nuanced than that. Her comments were completely inappropriate based on the stated goals of the Nazi's themselves. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
I'm old and I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this, I still think she was more right than wrong from the standpoint of the genocide being about religion more that so called race. As I said before just because Hitler said it was race doesn't make it so. Why would we use Hitlers definition of race?
S'no Farmer |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Why would we use Hitler's definition of race? Well, because he saw them as a different race... that's why. He said it was about race. He specifically made it about race so we should acknowledge that race was his motive. We don't have to agree with him, but race was clearly his motive as he saw it. Why would we us Whoopi's definition either? Just because she says it wasn't about race and labels them as just some white people doesn't negate Hitler's own evil intentions. That's the entire point... there is no correct answer as to how races are categorized. Hitler's line in the sand was different than Whoopi's. It's also different than many Jewish peoples line, because many Jew's see themselves as a race or ethnicity. Whoopi's comment totally disregarded Hitler's words as well as the feeling of Jewish people who do identify as a different race from the rest of those with similar skin color.
As for Jews being just a religion... it's not really that clear cut. There are people who identify as Jews that are not very religious at all. There are plenty of people who still identify as Jews that are atheist. Some see themselves as ethnic Jews, some cultural Jews, and some see them selves as Jews by race/ancestry. Some non-Jews see Jews as just a religion and some see them as much more. There are Jews that have converted from other religions and then there are Jews that can trace their lineage back for centuries. It's not just a catch-all to just say it's a religion. Side Note: As a Christian, the bible speaks of the Jews as Gods chosen people. They were separate from the Gentiles. They had 12 tribes and they were set apart from the rest of the Gentile world, to them the rest of the world was a different people... to them there were just two primary groups/races/ethnicities; Jew and Gentiles. Asians were Gentiles, Egyptians were Gentiles, Romans were Gentiles, Other black Africans were Gentiles, etc... Personally, I believe they are set apart, I believe they are God's clock to reveal his plan for humanity. Race is just one term for how we group each other... some call it ethnicity, some people groups, some race, etc... some make different divisions than I do, some say two divisions, some four divisions, some six, some ten, and some even more. Some of Whoopi's comments were true that Nazi's and Jews really was just inhumanity against other people... but that's still true even when the skin color is different. Isn't it all just inhumanity? Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Just Sayin'
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I wholeheartedly agree that she lumped the Jewish community into the "white race" group (very comical her stage name is Goldberg). This just goes to show all of us, once again, how ignorant and out of touch with reality media and liberals are. They do zero research, have zero knowledge - just have makeup and stylists, personal assistants, and producers to prop them up in front of a camera to beat their gums about something they know nothing about.
The bigger point is the cancel culture discussion. I've seen the clips of the left-wing media outlets talking about the suspension. Everyone knows, had this been (insert right-wing media here), this would've been an entirely different story. Here's how twisted it is, this is what's on cable news.... not $60M missing from BLM, not police officers getting gunned down, hundreds of thousands of illegals entering the country, a "pandemic" that now has a John Hopkins report shooting holes through the whole lockdown debacle ...... but, hey, Whoopi (who kinda looks like the poop emoji with glasses) got suspended ... Oh, and we can't forget about Jan. 6th!!!! 
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Just sayin,
So you are saying that the majority of Jewish people are NOT of the Caucasian race? From what I've been able to find there are at most 6 races of humans and Judisem isn't separated into a race. I'm still confused, I have never thought of Jews as a race...ever! I have always looked at the Jews as a religion. I'm sure there are black Jews (Sammy Davis Jr comes to mi d) so tell me what race they fit into? BTW Jake I agree with your last sentence but where does Sammy Davis Jr fit into the race question? S'no Farmer |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
As I mentioned in my previous post... some people convert to the Jewish religion... Sammy Davis Jr. was one of those people. Ivanka Trump converted to be an adherent of the religion as well. There are plenty who have converted to the religion, but that's not the whole story. Others aren't converts... they can trace their lineage back and consider themselves Jews by race or ethnicity, not necessarily religion. It's more than just a religion to some of them. If it was just religion how can there be atheist Jews? That makes no sense unless it's viewed as more than a religion. So clearly to them it's about more than religion.
Hitler didn't round up people based on religion... he did it based on heritage. The Nazi's tried to exterminate EVERYONE with Jewish heritage, it didn't matter if they attended synagogue or not. Christians with Jewish heritage were killed... Atheist Jews were killed... their actual religion and beliefs didn't matter to Hitler one bit... their heritage (their blood line) was what he cared about. Even if you had three Arian grandparents and only one grandparent with Jewish heritage/bloodline and you never went to a synagogue in your entire life you were still rounded up. Religion wasn't his metric. For him that bloodline was what made them a different race. Race is a social construct... it's just something made up by man. Again, there is no consensus on what the race divisions are and OPINIONS on race have changed through the years. Race is generally based on physical features... skin color is obviously one of them, but it's not the only one. Some Asians have the same skin color as some Europeans. Some have very different skin color but similar eye shape. It is just some division based on arbitrary features like eye shape. There was a time when Jewish people were stereotyped as short in stature with a big hook nose. Again, just arbitrary physical features no different than eye shape or skin color. Just because your research says there are 6 races at most... it's just an OPINION that some experts hold. Hitler simply used bloodline as his racial division between Jews and Arians. To him it was 100% about race (bloodline) and anyone like Whoopi who say otherwise is ignoring history. Let me give a really dumb example: Some people lump all motorsports together. Other people lump all wheeled sports together. Boat racing is a motorsport but not a wheeled sport... cycling is a wheeled sport but not a motorsport. There's no real consensus on how to make the groupings. That's Race. Now lets say Mountain Bikers wanted to round up ALL motorsport people and kill them because they were ruining our climate. Let's say Mountain bikers rounded up all tractor pullers first because they did more pollution because of their black diesel smoke and killed most of them. Sure not all of them blow black diesel smoke but they are still pullers so lump them together. If you survived and somebody said to you "all wheeled sports people are the same" I'm pretty sure you'd be pissed. You'd say don't lump me in with those Mountain Bikers that killed all my friends and family. You'd say that you define race as all motorsports... us motorheads need to stick together, and somebody else would say wheeled sports are the same no matter if it's human powered, internal combustion, or electric. Either way it's just a grouping based on some random trait. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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F-30puller
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Let them eat themselves.
I was informed tonight that you're not supposed to say Jew/Jews anymore it's a slur... This from my woke liberal wife... |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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reality
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I feel for ya, F-30 puller.I am more than tired & sick of the liberals telling us conservatives/Christians what we are to think. And say, if we are even allowed to say it. What makes them think they are (always) so right? And thus everyone needs to step in line with them. Selfish liberal "me" movement, on a society controlling binge !! |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Jake,
What you are saying in my mind is much more related to ethnicities than race, Google ethnicities and its exactly what you are talking about. S'no Farmer Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2022 06:26AM by S'no Farmer. |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Call me stupid/ignorant/narrowmined if you will, but when I think of Race what comes to my mind as a Race is what we have as options on most legal application forms. Gun purchases/back ground checks etc. American Indian or Alaska Native. ...Asian. ...Black or African American. ...Hispanic or Latino. ...Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific islander. ...White are the ones listed. I have never seen Jewish listed. So to me Hilter was a DA for refering to them as a seperate "race" among other things obviously. So yes I see Race as color.... |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Just Sayin'
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It can be presumed as splitting hairs, but yes, Jewish is a race. Now, to "call me stupid's" point, there is also a place where you can check "other" for race. Now, this is how you can also look at it.... biracial persons - do they check white, black, hispanic, etc.? There's a conundrum to put it mildly.
I think that too many are looking for GOTCHA moments - these are the WOKE and the TWITTERVERSE out there, Cancel Culture if you will. It is extremely sad - which is why I have not ever signed my name to my posts. Not that I am afraid of my words and/or actions, but for those that I am associated with are employed with and by. The Constitution is under attack constantly by Liberals, Progressives, Democrats and the like. They'll eventually cannibalize each other, as evident of the Whoopi/Jewish story. 3 more years of Joe Biden - look how 1 year has gone. They're ready to chew each other up now. Wait until the midterms! James Carville and Bill Maher are trying their best to plug holes in the dam, but that baby is gonna break soon. |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 630 |
Just sayin,
Look up the definition of Race and the definition of ethnicities. The definition of ethnicities or ethnic fits the the Jewish situation much more than Race. I honestly do not remember hearing a discussion about Jewish people and them using the word race as opposed ethnicity to describe them. Just because Hitler didn't understand the meaning of race doesn't we should go with his definition. I guess I'll just have to chalk this one up to me not getting it! I'm just a county bumkin and am not as well read as people like Jake so I'll try to stop now. S'no Farmer |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
The point is those definitions have changed over time. Those definitions are not even concrete definitions by todays standards. The lines are blurry. That's the point I'm making. It's blurry. It's not as cut and dry as just saying one is race and one is ethnicity... in fact in non-humans they generally classify groups into subspecies (a term that nobody likes to use for humans) but its the same concept... just a different way to sub-divide a species. It's not concrete and there are different definitions by different experts for all those terms. It's blurry... it's not 100% scientific. A gray area. Also, nobody used to say "ethnicity" as a term back then... it's a term we use today but it wasn't a common term back then... they used the term race. It's revisionist history to say ethnicity since that's not the term they used.
Remember when gender and sex meant the same thing on a form? Now there are a bunch of people who've confused those definitions. Definitions change. It's gotten blurry for some people. Jews were once considered a race (some still do), just because you don't see them that way doesn't mean others don't see them that way. The point is Hitler saw them as a race. The far left like to change definitions and to try to re-write history... they use new definitions and modern terms to try and re-describe the past... to revise the past. It does a huge disservice to our past. When somebody says Christopher Columbus was an evil sis-gender male that was a colonialist genocidal enslaver of mankind who travelled the oceans to look for people to exploit it's a revisionist narrative. He wasn't perfect, but the era was different and none of those terms are fair to use for his generation. We need to use the terms of his day to describe him to put him in proper context. The era was different in WWII too and the idea of race was different. Using the term ethnicity or ethnic group wasn't a term they used to describe different people groups and it doesn't frame the discussion in the proper context for the era. If you don't see them as a race that fine, that's your right, but remember that a modern view. The problem you have though is Hitler did. It was his motive. Motive maters. Think about this like a crime (which it was... it was one of the worst in history). Any type of crime, motive maters. When a terrorist shoots a bunch of people we want to know their motive. When a man shot a bunch of people at a Congressional baseballl practice the media and government said they don't know the motive. They lied, and then backtracked. The man was a Bernie Sanders supporter and hated Republicans. It wasn't just some random shooting. His motive mattered. It put context to the crime. Hitler's motive matters and his stated goal was elimination of Jewish people because he saw them as an inferior race. He made it about race. Why would you possibly ignore his own stated goal? Why would you ignore his motive? You may not agree with him, but you can't ignore the fact that he saw it as a race issue. Whoopi clearly ignored that fact. It is 100%... a historical FACT that Hitler saw it as a race issue... even if you don't. That's why it's a problem, because Whoopi ignored the historical facts of that era. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Registered: 11/24/2019 Posts: 242 |
I always write in “American.” |
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Re: Goldberg confusion
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Just Sayin’
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Since doing Google research, I think your best answers can be found searching “Differences between Jewish race and ethnicity”. Most of these articles wander into the White Supremacy garbage but the jist is there. |
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