12:38:48am, Sunday, May 19, 2024
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DT407 head gasket - need help
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Posts: 590 |
Needing some help w/ the head gasket in my 1206's 407. I'll give some info & background to help along. My 407 has the sleeves removed, has 4 5/8" pistons in the block. Water jackets in the block are filled. I've been using a copper head gasket w/ steel wire o-rings to aid in 'biting' into the head gasket around the deck of the block. Here about two weeks ago, it blew what I thought was the head gasket. It was the second hook for the day, and towards the end of the run, it just sprayed water out of the radiator cap & overflow. It blew a thick cloud of white smoke all the way back onto the trailer. Took the head off, found #1 & #5 had water on top of the pistons, #1 was the worst. Could not see a blown area at all on the head gasket, but assumed it failed.
Got a new head gasket this week. Used a can of copper kote to cote this head gasket. Installed new wire in the o-ring grooves in the deck of the block. Sat the head on, and torqued the head bolts down. Let it sit dry a few days. Went to put water in it today, and I could hear it all rushing to the pan. Drained the pan, pulled the pan off to see if I could see anything underneath. All the water is coming from #1 cylinder. Pulled #1 injector, theres water on the piston. I decided maybe my nozzle sleeves went bad, so I replaced #1 & #5, since they had the water on them last time. #5 seems fine, but water keeps running in on #1. Its not a slow trickle, either, it runs in there fast. I haven't yanked the head off again yet, but I think its coming. Where'd I go wrong? Should I have stuck rubber o-rings in the water ports on the head gasket to aid in sealing? Did the copper stuff not seal? Or maybe my head is cracked? I know there's not too many still running 407's, but I'm hoping for some pointers or insight from those that have or still do. Thanks. |
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Re: DT407 head gasket - need help
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Registered: 03/05/2011 Posts: 202 |
Can you see in the intake and exhaust ports to see if the head cracked and is dumping water in through one of the ports? By what you've described the block is completely full of filler, so no water down there at all? |
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Nevermind, found it.
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Posts: 590 |
Nevermind, the head gasket wasn't the problem. |
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Re: Nevermind, found it.
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Anonymous User
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yup thats what happens when you dont sleeve the front whole! been there done that. a little advice dont try to fix this block, best to start with another block |
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Re: Nevermind, found it.
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Registered: 03/05/2011 Posts: 202 |
Bummer. Time to be just like everyone else and sneak a 466 in it? |
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Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Posts: 590 |
There's not a snowball's chance in he!! that I'm sticking a 400 series in this 1206. There will be another 407-based powerplant in there. I'm gonna build this next one a lil differently, but it's still gonna be a 407. Anyone have any pointers/tips on putting a 5 1/8" stroker crank in a 407? Is clearance an issue, or will that swing just fine in there? |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Anonymous User
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if you are gona use stock rods you will have grind a little off the cam lobes. happy to hear how you are thinking about keeping the correct series of engine with the proper sheet metal. thats how i am to!!! besides there is nothing wrong with a 407 other than you just cant call and get parts for it. good luck |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Posts: 590 |
Are there cam grinders out there that offer custom cams w/ the lobes cut? Can most machine shops cut a lil off the love of the cab to allow for the rods to swing by? |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 09/14/2009 Posts: 109 |
we machined the corner off our selves.it wasnt perfect the way we did it but it worked fine.we still run a 407 in a 1206 also.if you wld like to talk call my brother or i.319-240-6493 or319-240-6163 |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Does anyone know were to get valve springs for a 407 or if there is a automotive spring that will work |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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bystander
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You can also use AC D21 or newer connecting rods and regrind the crank to gain 1/4" stroke. Have the rods heat-treated to be safe. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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blackstack.... i understand you wanting to keep the 407.....i even admire that, BUT if you are wanting a motor to run and make power, AND get the most bang for your buck...... go with the 466. I tried all this before, and had way more money in the 407. eventually if your turning the filled 407 hard enough, it will crack, and then you start over again. the 407 is a good motor, but if you're seriously pulling, save the headache and go 466. my 2 cents, good luck |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 10/26/2010 Posts: 101 |
Were running a 407! and EVERYONE says that! And thats why we were going to stay a 407! How much fun would that be if all of us were doing the same thing! Or using the same builder! Its not always about winning! And im not saying that its not fun to go out and beat the guys that can afford the dyno time, Because it is! But when your throwing a couple back, with a puller you just met, and they find out that "your still running a 407" Haha thats priceless! |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Posts: 590 |
Nope, I won't go 400 series. If I did that, it's going in a 66 series or something where it belongs. Not a 1206. For my class, a 407 can compete, despite the bugs I've had to iron out and now the current block failure, I'm still gonna stay 407. I think this time around, I want to leave the bore in the 407 alone, but then try the route of the 5 1/8" stroker crank. I enjoy doing things a lil differently, that's what keeps things fun an interesting. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 03/05/2011 Posts: 202 |
Can you not bore and resleeve the 407 block? From the picture it looks like you have plenty of room between the cylinders. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Posts: 590 |
That has mixed opinions, Arthur. Some have said see if it can be bored & re-sleeved. Others have said don't bother with that, the block is broke, go find a different one. I don't think it would have done that had the block been hard-blocked clear to the top of the block. It wasn't, it was about 1.5" from the top. Why? I dunno. I assumed the machine shop knew what he was doing. This kinda proves otherwise. I haven't asked the machine shops if the think it can be salvaged or not. I figure for now, I'm done for the season, so I have plenty of time between now & next spring to figure something out. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 09/14/2009 Posts: 109 |
we use to run 429 pistons,they are 4.5 bore.that makes a 441.you just have to pull the sleeves and bore it a little.this combination works well. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Curious
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Where is NE pullers pulling this coming weekend, and what classes? |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Posts: 590 |
This coming weekend, September 3rd, they'll be in Newcastle, NE. All classes. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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pull
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What time does the pull start? |
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Start time
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Posts: 590 |
Schedule says the pull in Newcastle starts at 1:00, be registered by 12:30. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2011 05:36AM by Blackstack1206. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 03/14/2010 Posts: 135 |
I have a 407 c-4 442 I would sell |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 03/05/2011 Posts: 202 |
In the V8 world they usually fill the water jackets up to the bottom of the water inlet holes in the front of the block, reason being the cylinder wall casting gets thinner toward the bottom so the filler supports the thin area, but you still get water cooling.
That logic may or may not apply to your 407, but it definitely was thin in the upper half as well. I for one am not a fan of dry blocking a diesel, I've seen the nasty results of it. In order to run the bore size you're running it might be necessary to use a sleeve, I saw someone else suggested sleeving the #1 bore, maybe they found that there's a thin spot in that cylinder only. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 09/02/2008 Posts: 182 |
have the block sonic tested in the top of each cylinder, that will tell if that is the only thin spot, or if you have others. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Forever Red
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Get Riverside Sleeves and run 5020 pistons |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 04/03/2008 Posts: 134 |
when i bored my 407 we sonic tested it and with the 4 5/8 bore the block was .080 thick so we hard blocked it to the top and just ran water thru the head.my question is why go with a 5 1/8 stroke? what bore? stock bore and 5 1/8 makes 448 or something. i was thinking go 5.3 with a stock bore and you could probably use stock pistons and 400 series rods? be easy enough |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Posts: 590 |
Hey, now I kinda like the sounds of that. 5.3 stroke brings it right to 466 cubes. Have you tried that setup yet, Kevin? Are there any clearance issues that you're aware of w/ a setup like that? 400 series rods are abundant as all-get-out, so coming up w/ those isn't a problem. I was thinking of the 5 1/8" stroke, simply because there's a 407 around here that ran that stroker crank for many years, and is currently being rebuilt. That, and I wouldn't have to swap rods, just get 1456 pistons. I get 450 cubes w/ a 5 1/8" crank when I did the math. That, and its easy figuring for a crank builder, although they should be able to figure it for a 5.3" swing too. Options & other build-up ideas are good. |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 04/03/2008 Posts: 134 |
mine was 5.35 yeah you have too notch the cam and groove the block and i also had to cut flats on the rod bolts. but it fit thats all that mattered |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 36 |
I need one pushrod and possibly a full set of rocker arms for a 1206 resto project. 308-940-0255 Thanks Jeff |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Registered: 03/14/2010 Posts: 135 |
what does north east ne call their hot class? isnt there a pull this weekend ??? |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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curious
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Any contact info for some info on the pull in newcastle? |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Posts: 590 |
There's two 'hot' classes, our 3000 RPM class, and the Hot Farm class. For more info on the pull this weekend, I'd give our president, Terry a call. (402) 286-4827. |
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Re: newcastle
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Heard they were having it Sunday instead of Saturday now? |
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Re: Nope, staying 407, stroker crank this time??
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Northeast calls their "only hot class" simply Hotfarm. Then comes 3000 rpm and then down the line as they go.
Seems most of the time there isnt any hotfarm tractors there or just a couple. Although they have a pretty fair turn out of 3000 rpm tractors usually |
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