JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 15, 2009 11:53AM
I heard JOHN DEEREEEY was going to sponsor Tractor pulling this year and get a way from other forms.

dont spell it right or there may be problems


YEA RIGHT
Reply Quote

heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 16, 2009 10:56AM
I heard that JD had some problems with pulling tractors
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 07:54AM
JD corporate does like any adjusments or alterations that increase factory performance level. Case closed or lose your job!
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 11:33AM
I'm as big a JD fan as any, but that's pretty short-sighted from a company as old and as successful as they are. In the automotive industry, the major manufacturers were thrilled to see folks hop-up on of their products. It's a shame to see them and other tractor manufacturers turn a blind eye to a growing sport.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 11:53AM
I don,t think the companies have a real problem with pulling, It's just that if you expect them to support you then you will have to approach pulling as a business more then just a hobby, start by developing a first rate promotion package that you can sell to the company,that will give them genuine value for their investment! You will have to except orders from them in regards to where you take the puller and what promotional events they will want it at to empress the potential customers ! Yes I know this can be hard to digest, being many pullers farm for a living and are not the least interested in taking orders from someone else,Excuse me for rambling on,just puttin it out there.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 12:04PM
Why should deere try to help any puller, we are our own worst enemy, every john deere puller you see has the logo plastered on his firesuit, the hauler and most of the t-shirts that are worn. Take all that off and paint the sheetmetal gold or black or pink or any other color and eliminate the free advertising. The only deere i have ever pulled never had the factory paint unless they were original and rusty, as for promotion, mine were always the junk deere. I had one deere dealer question why i referred to my tractor as junk; my reply when deere puts money in my puller I will change until then it is junk.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 12:06PM
Mother Deere doesnt like it when they get beat on the track its hard on there ego and pocketbook.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 02:11PM
Many of you people have not heard about the JD problem with pullers..... I am not able to say much other than It is allot to do with corporate Greed.

Riddle me this Batman.....

Why don't Gottman toys make any JD tractors?
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 02:46PM
Because JD wont liscense them.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 02:56PM
Good question! Since everyone thinks components are the answer, Gottman should have no problems making toys unless they have a problem themselves making 1/64th or 1/16 components. I mean afterall, who has the rights to a component? JD?
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 03:16PM
With all the bailout money that the 3 "BIG" auto makers have recieved, maybe they could afford to put some major money in tractor pulling since it is their rear ends that alot of people are using. If that were to happen, would the 3 "BIG" auto makers have a problem with Gottman toys?
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 18, 2009 12:25AM
I build custom supers and pros in 16th scale..On another forum, other builders have gotten letters from Deere about not using the Deere name...Basically a cease and decist or legal action will be taken..It really chaps my rear that you can buy salt and pepper shakers or any other stupid item with a name on it, but not a model pulling tractor.....This is the reason I wont buy any of their licensed toys...If any of you get the Toyfarmer mag, you will notice any Deere products sold or modified by other companies than the original manufacturers have to be called a 'green #520 instead of John Deere 7520'.....If they put up enough stink,make sure the scraper and roller tractors are shiney new red or blue ones, OR even better, how about Mihandra or those foreign ones out of northern hydraulics!!!!
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 18, 2009 01:45AM
You got it. corporate Greed....

Looks like pullers will be mixing sheet metal with engines.

I just think its pretty good that Tractors are were JD started and I have not seen them give ant $$$$ to pulling ever, I may be wrong but I dont think so.
So keep on advertising for them so they can laugh to the bank.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 18, 2009 04:07AM
never really looked at it that way. I notice IH isn't sponsoring any tractors anymore either!
Reply Quote

Trade Mark January 21, 2009 03:16PM
Actually it is the legal system, if you let one company use the registered trade mark with out permission then anyone can use it. A precedent has been set.

Nationwide Insurance sponsors the Nascar Nationwide series, I am a Nationwide Agent, but I can only use the "corporate ads" that Nascar has approved, if they let me use the Nascar logo in non-approved ads, then anyone can do it. The trade mark then becomes public property.

How about if you started a hamburg stand, you design a logo hmmmmmmmm maybe one that uses a particular logo, lets see let me think, Lets say you use the first letter of your name, and lets make that name McDonalds! Now you spend millions of dollars developing that name by advertising and developing your product. Now a guy opens a PIzza Shop next door to your McDonald's Restaurant, He puts this Giant Yellow M out in front to attract customers, do you think that would be permissible? Lets top it off by having him serve terrible Pizza, with lousy service and a dirty restaurant, so he attracts customers with the M they think it has connections with your McDonald's restaurant and he tarnishes the registered trade mark Logo you have developed and it hurts your business. That is the same exposure you are giving John Deere when you do not get permission to use their registered trade mark on your toys. Why do you want to use their registered name and color on your toys? So you will sell more toys and benefit from the money and work they have done! Which is stealing It would be no different than if you made your toys, I came into your store, stole your toys took them to my store and sold them. That name and paint color is their "work & product" the same as your toy is. If you did not think it had a value you would paint your tractors purple!

When US HOT ROD & TNT were promoting pulling they came to the individual pullers and had us sign contracts to register our vehicles as a trade mark so they could make toys and use the vehicles for promotion and no one else could "use their & our work" and benefit with out paying for it.

I believe this would be a comparison, if I am wrong, I am sure there is someone who will tell me. Change it a little bit, rather than a registered trade mark, lets say it is YOUR DESIGN YOU HAVE PATENTED. Now you let some other people use that design with out permission, after a while it basically becomes public property.

Look at Gootmans site, you will notice Kinze is also registered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2009 03:17PM by Policy Peddler.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 17, 2009 02:46PM
Ok, so you think John Deere will now be sponsoring some of the tractors that are currently pulling. Why would they sponsor someone when they are getting free advertisement now?
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 18, 2009 08:12AM
IH people are stuck in 1979, they don't have a company to sponsor them. Oh I fogot they have caseih and new holland, don't red and blue make purple!!! Time for some new paint!!!!
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 18, 2009 08:24AM
YEAH! New paint is right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where is my Belarus orange at?
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 18, 2009 11:08AM
You don't have a clue I guess....
But if you have a JD pulling tractor you will understand, soon enough.

Get you wallet out IT IS GOING TO COST YOU JUST TO PULL IT and it has nothing to do with pulling....
You may change you mind on Green Forever
Reply Quote

My post got pulled just... January 19, 2009 03:27PM
for pointing out a spelling mistake. I didn't say anything durogatory. If people live in glass houses they shouldn't cast stones!
Reply Quote

Re: My post got pulled just... January 19, 2009 09:37PM
If one person left a post for every spelling error, the board would have 3 times the posts.. And its DEROGATORY there mister webster.
Reply Quote

Re: My post got pulled just... January 20, 2009 01:38PM
Thanks for catching that. I was wondering if anyone would. Still don't know why they pulled my post.

It was a test you know.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 19, 2009 10:01AM
ok this is all bs john deere dont have anything to do with tractors in pulling. for that fact john deere is proud cause they put good name out you red guys need 2 pull your head out your ass. john deere is at the top in the world where u guys at. get your storys right before you say something. that is the dumbest thing i have ever hard.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 19, 2009 10:27AM
OK

Just remember were you said our head is.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 19, 2009 01:04PM
I'm not so sure it b.s...... If theyre freaking out over toy tractors with little exposure, Why is it so hard to believe they will target pullers next?
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 19, 2009 03:18PM
I believe that is what everyone has been saying. John Deere does not want to be associated with tractor pulling in any way at all. People have tried in the past to get the company to support the sport but they have refused. Toy pullers cannot be built because of infringing on patents held by John Deere. They will sue for it and will win.

What has gotten John Deere where they are is their advertising and their ability to pamper the operator and his ego. Most JD owners would not acknowledge a rotor combine until JD built one. (Should actually say bought one, the JD rotor idea was purchased from an independent) Guess what? Rotary combines have been on the market since 1978. (Perhaps 1977, I'm not sure when the New Holland twin rotor or the Gleaner was released) Some other examples where other companies were well ahead, cross flow heads, pto repair that does not require splitting the tractor, and many other companies did far more with sub 500 cubic inch engines than JD ever thought of doing with the 619, and they did it with far less fuel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2009 03:22PM by K1466.
Reply Quote

OK NOW January 19, 2009 11:04PM
K1466
seven hours ago Registered: 4 months ago
Posts: 9

I believe that is what everyone has been saying. John Deere does not want to be associated with tractor pulling in any way at all. People have tried in the past to get the company to support the sport but they have refused. Toy pullers cannot be built because of infringing on patents held by John Deere. They will sue for it and will win.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was seven hours ago by K1466.

Reply

the reply is this

"Toy pullers cannot be built because of infringing on patents held by John Deere. They will sue for it and will win."

Now take the word TOY out and think about it.


That would meen JD is doing what to the pullers?

Even them not allowing toys, they are holding the sport back.
Reply Quote

Liablity Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 21, 2009 03:19PM
Ever think it might be Liability for injuries they do not want to be associated with?
Reply Quote

Re: Liablity Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 21, 2009 03:35PM
I would say that your two post are on the money as why J.D. treats pulling the way they do.
Reply Quote

Re: heard that JD has a problem with pullers January 26, 2009 01:17AM
ih was first in all you talk about thank you
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 18, 2009 08:34AM
[tractorpulling.valtra.com]
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 20, 2009 04:55AM
Some more:
Landini / McCormick main website, check the little icon on the right!
[www.landini.it]
The Landini / McCormick Tractor Pulling site:
[www.landini.it]

Claas:
[www.claas.de] (that's me with the sunglasses)

There is more involvement in Tractor Pulling. Even from Deere (they just will never let this out to the public).


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 20, 2009 07:32AM
I'm not to sure were a company should draw the line. We all know that in Nascar the big cup series gets money from the auto companys, but should they give money to all the little racers at all the local tracks that use there products. Tractor pulling is really kind of the same.


I also agree that a rotor combine is the way to go, and John Deere needed to do that! But IH has been steps behind for years!! The 66 series cab is like sitting in a tin can. John Deere had a powershift 20 years before IH, and it took another company for them to figure that out. Where is there IVT, or CVT trans, can't figure it out yet!!

TA what a idea there!! You can plan on splitting your tractor every couple years!!
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 20, 2009 07:51AM
what do you mean every couple of years? we have a 1206, and a 756 that haven't been changed in more than ten years. guess what? they still work great. you just can't drive them in road gear and pull back as a brake. if you drive with a brain you'll be fine. also ih waited for the powershift because jd used it when there was dead spots in the shift that take your head off when you are pulling something. ya, there the most comfortable but they're tin cans weight wise. they don't have the weight to pull the hat off your head. it took them until the late 80's to figger that out. ya, comforts nice but we'd rather get the work done faster, or with some deeres at all, with good fuel hours.
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 20, 2009 12:26PM
I completly agree with what you said and we have a PS 4020 that has never had a problem with the drivetrainbut, the motor is a different story. Deere had there heads on right when they built a cab. What was IH thinking on the 86 series opening the door the wrong way? Not to mention you had to be an octopus to drive one. The TA works great if you have any common sence. Also don't put a Mechanical Diode TA in from Case IH My didn't last three years and The one in my 826 is 23 years old!
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 20, 2009 08:15AM
When it comes to CVT, John Deere people better not mention it.

CVT is nothing new and the first production tractors to use it were Fendt, Steyr (now part of CNH) and Claas in the Xerion.
Then Deere all of a sudden needed it badly - started to copy - lost the following lawsuit badly and by now still doesn't have a CVT that's anywhere close in performacne to what the Fendt made ones are.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2009 12:24AM by Sascha.
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 20, 2009 03:14PM
well its kinda funny with the whole ivt, because deeres ivt is built by zf, a german company. so deere cant build a transmission either they have to hire a german company to build their transmissions. as well as alot of the mfwd axles. most of ur 50 and 55 series mfwd front axles are built by zf. its great that deere had the sound guard cab back in the 70's. but they also had it in the late 90s come on its alittle outdated in such a time when case ih had the magnum series. deere realy did good with the post in the middle of the sound guard cab then the stack and air breather in teh way as well, good visibility there. and isnt the ta a powershift? ih had a mechanical front axle a long time before deere they were still blowing seals out with the hydraulic front axle that never really worked right anyways the rear axle was always trying to drive over the front axle because of the hydraulic inefficency of the motors and pumps when the oil heated up and the seals got shot. and as for splitting your tractor i know of ta's that have 10000 hours on them and work fine, just most people didnt know that its supposed to be in low 50% of the time and direct drive 50% of the time. Maybe you should research your deere parts alittle more before you talk them up. the only company with their own actually infinatly variable speed transmission is valtra. another european company. if you want technology then you better ditch your green thing and go across the sea where they actually design new concepts and equpiment.
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 20, 2009 03:57PM
Just another little tid bit of info, in 1952 ih came out with the farmall super Mta. a mechanical powershift. the first type of powershift of anykind in a deere was in 1960 with the 3010 and 8 speed powershift. as for you ta haters, this was introduced in its hydraulic version in 1963, pretty much the equivilant of deeres quad range, which was introduced with the 30 series in 1973 a full 10 years after ih. also the countershaft transmission design commonly found in the 8000 and 9000 series deeres is a very close copy of the design used by the international harvester company in the hough pay loaders. as for cabs deere used the soundguard up untill 1994 on their 60 series straigh frame tractors and 1996 on their 70 series articulate tractors, in 1987 caseih corp, introduced the 7110 and so on with the magnum cab, and if you have ever operated in one of the cabs they are far superior to the "tin can" ih 66 series cab. Also superior to the sound guard. I you are a heavy person and have ever tried to get in and out of a sound guard its not an easy task, as for the same can be said about the 88 series ih. As for the shifting on the 88 series ih, i guess you have never drove a 20 series syncro deere.
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 20, 2009 03:28PM
Well Case ih has owned Steyr tractors for years and they where one of the originals with cvt trans. Secondly you can buy a Case ih in Europe for years as a cvx tractor even before JD had there poor excuse for a cvt ivt up and going. Thirdly you can get a cvt in The USA right now in the puma series tractors. The magnum was leaps and bounds ahead of the 40,50 and 60 series deeres that they went head to head with and it still is today a superior tractor.
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 20, 2009 10:41PM
Thanks for the history lesson, guys. You are correct that there have been many good things happen with CaseIH. And that's the point exactly, the IH name wouldn't even exist without Tenneco having bought them. You can thank the Case engineering dept. for actually making the improvements in the cab and trans you are speaking of.

Also, if ZF is making the IVT for Deere (the same as some other Euro MFGR's listed earlier), then I would guess that's where the trouble is. Outsourcing is the cheesiest way to get things done. You get what you pay for.

Thanks for attempting to make it look like IH had the better trans with a T/A. Fact is, they couldn't figure out a powershift trans until the early 80s, so who was a little late on the draw? Please continue to give us IH history lessins, 'cuz that's exactly all they are: History!
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 21, 2009 12:23AM
ZF, Fendt, Steyr and CLAAS hold the patents...
nothing to do with "outsourcing"
You can't build what you don't have the patents for. They've tried... didn't work out.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

Re: JOHN DEEREEEEEY January 27, 2009 12:02PM
Sasch.. that's why its called an IVT.. not a CVT... haha...

The ZFtrans is only used in the 6000 series tractors.. (and US built small frame 7000's.. same as EU's large 6000's) 7000 & 8000's IVT's are Waterloo built. Basics are the same.. but different design.
Deere was actually working on a CVT/IVT in 1958-1959, in a 4010 proto machine.. (somewhere I have some pics..) it really was a far cry from what the CVT/IVT's are today.. but with the intoduction of the powershift in the 20 series tractors.. the interest was lost in the developement and it was canned..
JDGnut
Reply Quote

Go to this sight January 21, 2009 02:30AM
Look at the 3688 in tractorhouse.com from argyle WI. A prototype never released to the public. He is asking $50,000 for it and has all the controlls on the right side like a magnum or deere. Also the door opens the right way. Pretty neat piece of equipment just don't how this guy got a hold of it
Reply Quote

Re: Go to this sight January 21, 2009 05:10AM
I have also been told of a last generation IH prototype that is somewhere south of london , ontario, Can. one of two fitted with an CVT trans put out on a farm for testing, farmer liked it so much that he refused to give it up when Case and IH merged into one. apparently the tractor company ownership failed to see the merits of this transmission so they gave it Fendt! now this might be more of a legend then actual fact but I wouldn't mind finding out the rest of the story? As a side note I find the CVT trans now offered through Case Ih astonishing simple in design and function, might suggest that it should be offered at a lower price then your typical powershift-a lot fewer parts involved.I believe Steyr make this trans for them .If any one else can add to the story i'm all ears!
Reply Quote

Re: Go to this sight January 21, 2009 04:21PM
Now.. I was about to say something about this before, but wasn't quite sure about the story I was told being true.
The engineer who actually came up with the CVT idea is coming from Holstein in northern germany and a lot of the hydraulic components were done by Sauer, which also are located there.
Now - we have a tractor pull promoter and first hour puller, also from that area, who told me, he had an IHC 66 CVT prototype, that was used for tests close to the Sauer company and that he knows the engineer pretty well, who developed all this.
He said he actually pulled the tractor a lot on the 80s (pure terror on the other stock tractors as he likes to point out).

After Case bought IH, they didn't want the CVT anymore and the patents were then bought by Fendt and others.
He then sold that tractor, but he said it's still around and he knows where it is. He is actually thinking about buying it back.
He also had plans for an Griffon aircraft engine powered modified with a CVT. Still has two engines in great condition (that about everybody wants to buy) - but won't sell. I once saw the chassis and the engines for that project, which unfortunatly never got finished.

I do remember Claas doing tests with their CVT transmission with Xerion prototypes around my town when I was a 3rd grader in school. Being older I had the "pleasure" of disassambling one of them at the Claas prototype workshop, when doing an appreciantship (sp?) im my college vacation.
By now they have cancelled their own design CVT as they are not real transmission manufacturer and buy ZFs for their tractor line.
But anyhow.. I also remember at one Agritechnica, Fendt, Steyr and Claas shared a gold medal for the design of that transmission.
BTW.. Steyr (which actually is a city in Austria):
Did you guys know that Steyr is the capital of diesel technology and pretty much ALL diesel common rail / injection was and is developed there and then sold through and to other companies?


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

Re: Go to this sight January 21, 2009 10:55PM
I don't believe that IH made a prototype 66 series with a CVT. There was not any need to a sales were excellent on the 66 series. The prototype IH transmission that was to be the 5188 and released in early 1986 is locked away in racine at.
Reply Quote

Re: Go to this sight January 22, 2009 04:40AM
As said, I don't have any first hand info on this and can only tell, what he told me.
All I do know from old results list is, he actually pulled with a 66 series IH, which is absolutely strange, as that model has never been sold in germany and is kinda "unknown" if it wasn't for some collectors and Tractor Pullers importing them things.

IH over here in Europe (for 6 cylinders) means DT 358 or the DT 402 (stroked 358) with ZF transmission (similar to the one used on the Deutz 06 series).
946, 1046, 1246
955, 1055, 1255 and 1455 (the later 55 series already got Case color scheme).
956, 1056, 1455 (those had Case style hoods)
1246 - german model

1246 export model


1455 in IHC look

1455 in Case look

The last 1455 built in Neuss


The 1455 are really beloved tractors, as just a little bit of turning the pump screw gives them over 200 hp and they run like forever. They still cost pretty serious money today with over 10.000 hours on.

The following, unreliable and shitty built, Maxxums were pretty much the end IH in this area. People started to buy Fendt and John Deere.
These days all you see in new tractors here is Fendt, Fendt and Fendt, a few John Deeres a lot of new Claas and a Valtra or Steyr built CIH here and there. Up north there is a bunch of New Hollands.

Anyhow - CVT and John Deere is not what I would call a gloryful history... They've been too late with it and seriously got their sales hurt by Fendt. If it wasn't for Fendt being kinda non existent in the US and people pretty much only considering red or green, JD would have been in trouble there, too.

And no .. I am not a "red" guy.
Grew up with MFs on duallies (anything else would sink in that damn swamp area) and 4 wheel drive Unimogs.
Our farm in the 70s, after doing wheat in the 60s, was potatoe, eggs and hogs, a little bit of corn silage and laying drainage as contract work as well as designing and building costum made farm equipment and my great uncles side being heavily into the peat business (which is what the Canadian part of our family, another great uncle with his family, still does).
Them Unimogs made excellent self propelled, independly running choppers in the 70s due to the front PTO and a dump box behind the cap.
Dad spent days just chopping the outside rows of corn fields as a contractor, so the farmers could get into the fields with their pulled choppers ...
For the rest of the year they were used to drive and power the homemade drainage machines (which we lately found out were still in use after over 30 years) or to pull and power potatoe harvesters (which could also dump onto the Unimog on the run)
Guess I am getting side tracked...


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 20, 2009 10:47PM
this is about corporate greed not transmissions

I was always told that a good piece of equipment was one that was paid for and did the job that it was designed for..
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 20, 2009 11:39PM
The much cussed and rightly so door on the 86 and 88 series is the SAME door as the magnum series!!
Just hinged properly and more glass. I have been told this concept was the orginal design,but some knothead in marketing wanted 2 doors.
Door latch was outsourced from AMC it is the same as the Javelin, on the 86 series.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 12:37AM
Actually the magnum was completley designed by IH before the merger, the only thing that was changed after the merger was the descision to go with the 8.3 cummins.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 04:43AM
Another great thing is that what international was making for power with a 414 cubic inch engine deere had to match with a 531, then a 619. I guess deere just doesnt believe that a cross flow head works, instead push part of your charge air back out the exhaust using your monoflow head. Nope ih just couldnt build a tractor thats why you see so many of them still around. Must be junk i guess?
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 05:06AM
Come again your breaking up. The 619 didn't get put into a farm tractor until the 8630 4 wheel drive which was putting out 225 hp the 414 was competing with the JD 404 and later the JD 466. Also what are you talking about pushing air out your exhaust? The valves are still in line with the cylinder's. Pushing air out your exhaust has way more to do with your camshaft overlap than it does the design of your cylinder head!!!
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 07:22AM
Both the 4020's and 66 IH were great tractors or there wouldn't be so many of them still relyed on every day yet. Sure they have some problems now and then but look how old they are!!
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 08:08AM
Thanks for pointing out the most basic misconception with the crossflow vs. non crossflow argument. The proof is in the pudding, if you run Superfarm (stock ag head), where's the competitive advantage with this magical engineering marvel called the crossflow head?? Doesn't seem to make a lick of difference there, because it appears the two brands run neck in neck there. You could draw straws for the winner any given day. It would appear that the beloved crossflow head is just a 'marketing ploy'. Mental horsepower means nothing.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 10:43AM
to make the deere motor efficient you have to push some of the air back out the exhaust with the monoflow head to get the correct swirling effect inside the cylinder. If you were such a big deere guy you would know this sense this is one of the basic principles of their engine design. If you would like give me a fax number and i will fax you out of the john deere fundementals of service book on engines the pages that explain it all if you would like. Obviously you have to have cam overlap to push some of the air back out but with out pushing some of your charge air back out the exhaust there is no swirling at all in the cylinder chamber, giving inproper filling of air. This is why on a NA deere motor the valves are recessed into the head more to help with swirling the air when there isnt a turbo driving it in. also tell me how much you can open up those passages in the deere head compared to an ih or cummins crossflow head.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 12:34PM
cross flow is better
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 01:23PM
if the crossflow is so bad, then why are they still using it today? and why did a man with a Deere pulling tractor fit a crossflow head off a IH on the motor and pull ntpa with it? you might know the name, the Deere Harvester. and for you deere "know-it-alls" the last of the 6030s came with the 619 opition. but you guy knew all that.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 02:01PM
We run the stock cast Deere head and we are making a little bit of horsepower! Apparently it isn't as bad as you think it is! Don't know of too many RED ones running in our division with stock heads. If you really want to know the Company who was ahead of everyone in the early 50's it was Oliver! They had six cylinders and six gears far superior to anything else at that time. Seems funny you all are arguing about what is better when all equipment is overpriced junk anyhow.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 01:32PM
JD 5010 121 pto HP 531 CI
JD 6030 176 pto HP 531 CI


IH 1566 165 pto HP 436 CI
IH 5488 186 pto HP 466 CI
Reply Quote

man, this a really good show!!!! January 21, 2009 03:04PM
You people keep it goin!!!!!!!!!!!!!Smiling
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 03:22PM
to the person who said deere out sourced their ivt trannys, your only half correct The the 7520 and smaller is out sourced, the large frame7030,s and the 8030,s are built in waterloo IA. And the out sourced tranny,s are the ones that they are having problems with. and also who cares if you have to split a tractor to put a pto clutchin it if its not an 66 or86 series IH, you only have to do it every 8000 to 10000 hours if you have a clue how to run it!
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 02:09AM
as far as the big cubes go the 5010 had big cubes to get power and TORQUE because it didnt have that little thing we call a turbo unlike the 86 and 88 junk series you were bragging about
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 02:39AM
This is the type of thing I'm referring to.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 24, 2009 12:07PM
well if you ask me it a #@!! of a lot easier, cheaper, and just plain smarter to put a turbo on then to bore out a block.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 04:24PM
Ok, IH built a good tractor.But they have been playing catch up since 1960. Compare 560/4010,806/4020,1086/4440,7120/4455.I grew up on ih, and my grandpa loved deere.When i went farming on my own i started with ih, then i bought a 4450,wow,i was impressed.The soundgard cab was revolutionary. The 71/72/89 magnum cabs are ok, but the visibility sucks.have you seen my drawbar?Ive ran them both, and i would much rather cultivate, or pto work with thw 4455 i owned than the neibors 7120 anyday.As far as engines, the deere 466(especially the 7.6l) is an awsome engine.The 4440s could be hard on fuel, but they will run forever.From the 50 series up the fuel economy is very good. No, theyre not a crossflow head, but they are big and flow.Ever seen a stock turned up 4450 beat up on a 1466 with a 3lm and 13ml pump?Yeah I have, that 7.6 runs. As far as transmissions, IH never had easy shifting transmissions,ok the m was pretty good! A ta is definetly not a quad, the deere 2 speed planetary is almost bulletproof.I have a 1466 with a weak ta, and an 856 with a bad ta( these are the only kind, right? just kidding). The ih pto is easier to service, but is much weaker than a deere. Then weve got hydraulics! Deere had a closed center system since 1960, ih- 1987. As far as fwa, ih didnt build their own. Coleman and elwood built theirs, then i think on the 88s a company from hungary built them. The deere pwrd hydaulic assist doesnt pull like a mechanical, but it will turn on a dime. I own a late 82 model 4240 with it, and i really have been happy with it. Case ih put cummins engines in the magnum because tenneco was in bed with cummins,and also because navistar kept the 400 series. Everyone should read a corporate tradegy, the agony of IH. A fasinating book, for both sides. I like both brands, i own both, but in my opinion, Deere has set the standard for the industry. The only full line american farm equipment manufacturer that is still around. This argument will probaly still be going on in a hundrded years, but what the hell, farmers got opinions!
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 21, 2009 10:44PM
Thank you for the common sense argument, it's good to hear it put real clear like that. As for comparing big block Deere to Ih 466, give me a break! Try comparing apples to apples! if you want to make it sound real stuupid, let's jump generations again. 4955 Deere -- 7.6L (466) 200+ hp stock. Where's the IH engine in that generation? Right there wasn't, it was a cummins. And yes, it made hp too, but it was also 505 cubes.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 01:48AM
THANK YOU! you pointed out the fact that in the early 60's deere was making tractors that were head and shoulders ahead of IH. I mean can you really compare a 560 IH to a 4010 Deere The 404 was far superior to anything ever put in a 560
and also that Deeres hydraulics were better and clear up until the 80's
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 02:19AM
you are right. Deere released the 4010 at the exacte right time. IH was in trouble with the 560 rearends and Deere brought out a new tractor that alot of IH men jumped ship and never looked back. That was just good competion.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 02:41AM
If memory serves correctly, many people who purchased the 4010 couldn't get rid of them soon enough. They had rearend problems too.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 12:49PM
4010's didnt have 404's.
Reply Quote

Here's a new twist... January 22, 2009 02:37AM
We all know that all tractors have there good points and bad points. The "cab forward" tractors have problems with drawbar visibility. I don't feel you really compared apples to apples on that one. I have talked to JD owners who fear pto problems. Stated earlier that if used properly the pto will last many hours. Such is the same with the IH torque amplifier. If it is used to amplify torque as the name implies it will last many hours as well. It is not a brake! Use it as one, and it will go out prematurely. The IH pto will last many hours as well, and will hold 500 hp on a dyno. It will wear out as all parts, regardless of color, will. It takes about 2-3 hrs to remove, rebuild, and reinstall, for a cost of about $150. (my own labor) Its been awhile since I've done one so I might be off on that. JD did get better hydraulics earlier than IH with going to closed center. Go to any dealer and you will find all brands in shops being worked on. For many dealers this is what keeps them in business. The manufacturers are constantly trying to "one up" the others so actually you could say that they are all playing "catch up" all the time. If one does get ahead it is only for a very short time. On a personal note I have to say that my biggest issue with JD is the arrogance that surrounds the brand. I'm not speaking of all the JD owners, but it does seem to be a majority of them. However, I'm sure there are some from the that side who feel the same about this side.

Here's the new twist. We are all aware that the biggest problem IH had was very poor management. For years IH had one poor manager after another. What if IH had the same types of managers that JD had all those years? Where would IH be today? Where would JD be today? Would we be having these discussions at all?

Fire Away!!
Reply Quote

Re: Here's a new twist... January 22, 2009 02:54AM
Product may be up for debate but one thing is fact. John Deere was alot better managed and light years ahead on marketing. The marketing aspect alone is a tribute to the longevity of that company. Even bad products can be sold if the marketing is great. (not saying JD products are bad too, just a blanket statement for all products we buy everyday). Great example is McD's. Great marketing, horrible product but billions served. IH needed to take a page out of JD's book on how to market any product they were selling throughout the years.
Reply Quote

Re: Here's a new twist... January 22, 2009 12:26PM
Yeah so everyone knows that ih couldnt market water to a guy in the desert. One of the biggest downfalls to ih was the 560, what if they did another 2 weeks of research on that tractor figured out that bearing needed to be moved in the final drive. That woulda saved some of the financial problems. If they had a marketing department like deere they woulda been great. The 560 wasnt a bad tractor other than the rearend problems. If they coulda marketed their product they would have been buying companys instead of being bought. Also everyone is talking up the closed center hydraulics, what about the fuel consumption issue with closed center, and also the heat issue when your oil is always at high pressure standby, and that much more stress on your motor. There is sure benifits to the closed center hyd, there fast, but really do you need to burn that extra fuel keeping that oil at 2500 psi when you are chopping or something and not using the hyd?
Reply Quote

Re: Here's a new twist... January 22, 2009 03:35PM
I must have been around the rare 560's the last 40 years. None of ours have had rearend problems.
Reply Quote

Re: Here's a new twist... January 22, 2009 04:15PM
I think they were all recalled by 1961. They say that rearend was maxed out in the smta. Read "a corporate tradgedy, the agony of International Harvester". Youll shake your head and wonder how it could have been.
Reply Quote

Re: Here's a new twist... January 22, 2009 10:39PM
The 560's that were repaired by IH were supposed to have a triangle stamped on the serial tag
Reply Quote

Re: Here's a new twist... January 22, 2009 01:15PM
It's not just the marketing end either. Many people preferred to buy the Deere's because they knew when they went to sell it or trade it in, it would hold it's value far better than any other brand of tractor.
Reply Quote

Re: Here's a new twist... January 22, 2009 04:04PM
The main difference between deere and IH's management style was their view towards the farm equipment divisions. Deere continued to invest in their farm equipment, and took pride in striving to be the best. William Hewitt, president from 55-82 was the one who said Deere wouldnt settle for being second. When you say tractor, people think green and yellow. IH however, during a crucial time to sell farm equipment(55-to say 78), chose to milk their farm division to support less profitable divisions-ie construction,refrigeration, light trucks. They chose to be a conglomerate, to the expense of their heritage. Not until the sts tractors did IH truly make an original tractor, by then it was too late. What do people love about the 66 series? The 400 series engine, an 806 with a truck motor. The 86 series never should have been built. Heres the formula for the 86's- truck engine +806+cab, with the worst possible shifting set up (nothing more convenient than crawling over your park lever to enter or exit your tractor)= unhappy customers and excess inventory of old tractors when you are trying to sell your forerunner to the magnum. It wasnt engineerings fault, no one would give them the resources , until it was almost over. If the sts tactors would have come out instead of the 86 seies, then followed by the magnum in 82, might have made the difference. The farm crisis caught all the manufacturers. Deere even built motorhome chasis to keep working.IH did too little too late.One exeception would be designing the axial flow combine.I read that was what case really wanted in the purchase.(I myself happen to like my deere walker combine) THe funny part of the management issue, is that both companies were ran by family up to the eighties. The manufacturers all had better be careful, I think we are on the verge of another farm crisis. Oh, and one more thing, IH had ivt since the 60's... The hydro!
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 11:42AM
Guess you have never put a 20 30 40 50 55 series on a mixer wagon the draw bar wont last a year, that is if your putting more than 1000 pounds of feed in. and its kinda hard to compare a 560 and 4010 sense a 4010 is the same as a 4020 really and that should be compared to the 856 or 966 really same hp range. Deere does have a better hyd system but they must have came up with that coupler set up on a friday because it just dandy to have to unhook the hyd pump coupler to change your fan belt. You also have to realize with a ta that it was out how many years before a quad.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 01:21PM
I have to disagree with not being able to compare a 4010 with the 560. They both came out the same year & that's what counts. That's what you have to compare because those were your choices at the time to purchase. Deere didn't have to change until the 856 came out as adequate competition with what it was offering.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 01:30PM
what about the 706 and 806 compare them to the 4010 then
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 01:42PM
I did mean to say the 806 instead of the 856, but anyway it should be compared to the 4020. You say the 4010 is a 4020, but the 4020 is a bit heavier and had better hydraulics & a beefier transmission with a better pto. Really just trying to back an earlier post about playing catch-up.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 01:57PM
Yes both the 806 and 4020 came out in 1963. 4020 with a 404 and the 806 with a 361. if you have ever seen a 361 block its like a solid chunk of iron, its massive for the cubes that it is. not that the 404 isnt a good motor. I think the 806 was a bit heavier than the 4020. It really depends on what you wanted to do with the tractor as to which is better. One nice thing with the 806 is 38" rubber instead of the 34" on the deere
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 23, 2009 12:37AM
460 and 560 were released in 1958, 3010 and 4010 were not available until 1960. 560 more comparable to 3010. Deere fans always speak so highly of the 4010/4020, never hear anybody say the same nice things about the 3010/3020..that's no accident. lol
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 23, 2009 02:50AM
you are right a 3010 and 3020 do compare more to a junk 560 -except you could stand to run a 3010 or 20 all day without cramping your back because they were actually comfortable to drive. and you could get off the front unlike the 560 that was way backwards. the 3010 and 20 also had very little problems and took 1/2 of the fuel as the 560 did. oh and they had that thing called park instead of that brake lock to lock them worthless brakes that wouldnt hold even when they were new. the 3010 is now a collector and they are bringing big money and the 3020 is still worth a fortune cause you cant find a more reliable and handy 45 year old chore tractor then one of those. 20 years ago my uncle got off his 560 to adjust the hay rake and it took off -with the brakes locked and the rake dragged him 100 yards, putting him in serious condition and my dad had a 560 get away from him too many years ago so yeah they really sound like a good safe tractor to have around the farm.......lol
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 23, 2009 04:22PM
Yes its such a lovely shifting design on the syncro with the 3020. i guess normal people dont put hte gears inline lets just jump around the them. Oh yeah then you have the powershift thats even better lets consume half the power of the tractor with out tranny. And the only 560 you got off the back was the standard model. the hy crop you got off normal. Obviously someone cant push on the break pedal to lock it because i ahve the same brake design on my 666 and i can lock my breaks up and stall the tractor absolutly no problem. Yeah half the fuel for half the work pretty much with the deere. And what really makes the 560 junk? Can you further explain here? the only time i have ever seen an axle break is pulling and i have seen deere axles break as well. Oh wait is it the 282 motor? but yet they were fuel efficent and there are all kinds of guys stilll running them today. please tell me what makes it junk because i must be missing a piece here.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 22, 2009 02:39PM
IH must have been there on that same Friday 20 years later with their 50 series plenum design. It is just as hard to change the fan belts on those as much as it is the John Deere.

you guys keep this up, again, this is a really good show!!!!!!!!!Smiling
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 23, 2009 02:44PM
COMPARING A DEERE TO AN IH IS LIKE COMPARING DEERE CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT TO CATERPILLAR. SAY, I THOUGHT THAT DEERE SAID THAT RUBBER TRACK SYSTEM WERE WON'T WORK. IT DIDN'T TAKE THEM LONG TO BASICALLY COPY CATS.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 24, 2009 03:50AM
Yeah, & comparing IH to anything is like hanging on to a dream...it doesn't exist! I'd venture to say with no statistics to back me up that there were remore farmers that went belly up for running Junk IH equipment than John Deere
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 24, 2009 10:26AM
Sounds like the discusion is everything we already know. IH is way behind in every generation, and John Deere is the best.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 24, 2009 12:33PM
America should be proud of the farm equipment heritage we have. 50 year old john deeres and farmalls both get put to work everyday on some farm, somewhere. Can that be said about a kubota, belarus,duetz,etc? on these below zero nights up here in wisconsin when the air is really still, you can here from the house, the old 1466 whimpering from getting picked on by the john deeres!
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 24, 2009 01:22PM
My 2 14's are standing at the gate stomping to get back at em.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 24, 2009 02:17PM
Junkyard Deere, I wouldn't be knocking Deutz tractors. I know they seem unusual to you but as far as fuel efficiency goes, they almost can't be beat. The DX series tractors trans were crap but we have a 100-06 with I believe 11,200 and some odd hours and the only thing we have ever done is set the valves and replaced the air chamber heater.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 24, 2009 03:42PM
Couldn't run fast enough to give me a Deutz, Dutz, Duds, whatever you call them.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 24, 2009 05:20PM
This is amazing, this thread started as someone trying to get a jab in at John Deere and it appears wanted to get people fired up, but it looks like many people are misinformed or just don't know. AS A matter of Fact John Deere used to put money into tractor pulling, furthermore you naysayers might want to do some research and talk to some oldtimers. The John Deere 466 engine originated from the intelligence and experimentation in Mexico Missouri by Van Botkins. With this there was a JOHN DEERE FACTORY BUILT PULLING TRACTOR BORN called THE CALUN QUEENII 4320 built in Waterloo Iowa, this joined the original CAJUN QUEEN 4020 which some people say this revolutioned SUPER STOCK PULLING as you know it today. These tractors as well as AC 180-190's and D21"s and IH 806,1206,856's have brought you where you are today. Yes I know many of you will say that was over 30years ago "THEY WEREN"T DOING ANYTHING" but alot of you were not born or old enough to remember the scenerio, these tractors were pulling in 9,11,13,15 and sometimes 18000lb classes starting the sled with a 15000lb tractor sitting on the pan! Try that with your 3charger unlimited super or your 4charger diesel superstock! OK "I guess I am considered a KEYBOARD" but maybe you all should act like you have the intelligence to match your age, because every day there are new people to this site who are new fans look at the portrayal you are displaying of this the "ULTIMATE OF MOTOR SPORTS", it would be nice for these new fans to see some professionallism instead of acting like adolescents. And yes I am knowledgable of the sport and chose to quit competing some years back, but continue to be a true fan and keep up with what goes on. As far as bashing other brands compared to your loyalty that will never cease as long as there are multiple brands but you can keep it friendly. I have owned both John Deere and International and have used Allis Chalmers also, there are faults with all brands.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 24, 2009 11:09PM
I have read all this diatribe and the previos post is the only one that made the point I was waiting on. The manufacturers used to be interested, somewhere along the way the mindset changed I don't know if it was from competitors or the company but I do know that when you talk tractor pulling to a company they look at you like you fell out of a tree. The only place that seems to have company support at this time in pulling is across the pond and I still believe that until the major companies lose their free advertising they will never be interested again. They know we are here and they can also see how brand loyal some of us are; so why should they spend money through us when we will do it for free. I guess this is why I still pull the brands that are considered one off makes for a unique conversation in the pits. Btw, every brand of tractor I have seen the dealership has a parts counter and a full shop, so enough with how great one is over the other.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 25, 2009 02:52AM
You are right George. It's just to bad that the green underwear people can't see that.
Reply Quote

Factory Support January 26, 2009 12:34AM
I personally think the current rules structure in most national classes is extremely prohibitive to factory support. Almost all factories are turning out 505ish CID tractors and almost all the national classes have rules from 640-680. That’s not a very factory friendly environment.

A 505-510 high performance single charger diesel class would be more inline with what the companies currently offer. Not surprisingly that’s exactly what European Pro Stock is, and that’s also where some big factory support is.

If pulling wants factory support the first thing it would need to do it develop a class with appropriate rules. A cubic inch limit of 680 is just too high, and 466 is just too old. Build (or change) a class with a 505-510 CID limit, single-charger, diesel, make it a high performance class, stock factory heads, no valve limit, and give it some time to develop into a national caliber class. Make it high performance with modern options like EFI and OHC (if stock), 24 vlave heads... make sure the rules are specific regarding tractor parts only, no marine, truck, sulldozer etc... parts.

You’ll never have factory support until you have a class that factories CAN support.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated.

Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal.

Reply Quote

Re: Factory Support January 26, 2009 02:18AM
good point

Factory support means they mostly give you parts - NOT MONEY. Sucks if you can't use them....


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 27, 2009 09:34AM
First thing first I own green love every one I own, owned a red one and will never own another. But Am man enough to know that they both have good and bads here are my opions.
Engine
IH had a better motor untill Deere came out with the 404
IH took back over when they put the 414 in
Then Deere Took back over with there 466
From the magiums on I call it a tie cummins are great motors but the 7.6 throgh the new nine liter are great too.
Transmission
IH had the TA and was built good, but every gear in the transmission sucked to shift
Deere was late with there Quad but when it came out it was bullet proof
Don't forget who had the powershift sucks for tractor pulling but was great for every thing else
IH hydro is junk
Hyd
Every body knows Deere has had the advantage in hyd sence the 4010
Diff Lock
I haven't heard any thing about this
Thats because No one plowed in addison county clay I give that one deere no one makes a diff like deere
Cabs
Sorry IH guys this is your biggest down fall they diddn't have a good cab untill the MX's
One Thing Both of use deere and IH guys can agree on Fords and new hollads are F-ing ju
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 26, 2009 03:07PM
Ahh the cajun queens yes I do remember those days and I remember the 466 engine being discovered when deere was only offering the 404 to the public so if memory serves me correct it was deemed illegal ohh those days of throwing weights on and off 5,7,9,11 open,12,15 classes many times the supers and the mods would hook the open class
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 26, 2009 02:10AM
Careful what you say about them aircooled Deutz. There is plenty of "built in the 50s" (in the 40s they had other problems) still operating on farms around here...


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 27, 2009 04:34AM
Don't hold your breath on factory support. Too many lawyers and product liability laws. I can remember a little of those days, back then the factory support led the way for the 3 colors. The only remnance of those days is Hypermax. Now the tractor manufacturers would have to play catch up to what is on the track before moving forward. Just my 0.02 Bruce
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 27, 2009 07:11PM
The team I work in IS HEAVILY factory supported and there are others, too.
Difference is, we are in Europe and this "product liabilty" stuff is by far not as much of a problem as in the US. So maybe that's the reason why you don't get much sponsorship and we finance more than a healthy part of the show with it.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 27, 2009 11:04PM
send some of those funds over here, they can boast that they are International supporters (not the tractor IH) but across the waters
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 28, 2009 12:24AM
How about we just send the all the lawyer's across the pond and the problem is fixed. I don't know if the story was true but I have heard a story about some guys that got drunk and tried to trim the hedges in the yard with a John Deere push mower. You can guess what happened and they sued Deere over it. Maybe just an old wives tail.
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 28, 2009 02:37AM
Puller12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about we just send the all the lawyer's across
> the pond and the problem is fixed. I don't know
> if the story was true but I have heard a story
> about some guys that got drunk and tried to trim
> the hedges in the yard with a John Deere push
> mower. You can guess what happened and they sued
> Deere over it. Maybe just an old wives tail.

That's the best idea I have seen yet!!!!!!!!!!! Except, I'm not sure i want to see Sascha have the same problem we have. But we do need to SEND THEM SOMEWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 28, 2009 03:43AM
Let them go live with the penguins at the south pole!
Reply Quote

Re: NOTHING BELOW HERE ABOUT THREAD OR January 27, 2009 02:54PM
Hey putz, since your 4450 can walk on water can it also remove that IH tatoo you had put across your back when the red ones were the greatest thing on earth?
Reply Quote

Newer Topic Older Topic

Author:

Your Email:


Subject:
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
Message:
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,643, Posts: 229,709, Members: 3,325.
This forum: Topics: 37,067, Posts: 225,903.

Our newest member JD_8520