05:26:21am, Friday, May 17, 2024
|
our pros and theirs
|
anybody know
|
comments on here got me thinkin what are the hp differnces beetween us and europe. our pro guys have 640 motors but what turbo size are they at now? what rpm do they run? what about dyno numbers hp and torque? can we run a intercooler. can we run over head cam. what about europe. what do they run? p pumps? could our superfarms beat their pros? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 12:02AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
Ours
|
Ours are 680 inch, 5" plus turbo, sigma pumps and intercoolers. 2500 horse wont get u in the top ten. No our superfarms wont wont touch their pros |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
Europe:
Sigma, CDS and some EU brands of billet pumps, the top twenty are 4.6 to 4.8 inch turbos - The Rocky 1066 had a 5 inch on at Ahoy and that "One Trick Pony" McCormick was a 4.8 and some other's have ran that size in the past, too (that's what they've claimed - I didn't measure them), intercoolers, .... There is not that much difference - ours have to run stock heads and of course 510 cui, which, with a shorter stroke allows for more rpms but should result in less low end tourque Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
Posts: 744 |
Watching the vids you post Sasha, the Europe pros sound and look like they are getting very close to the Outlaw 4.8 pro class.
That class looks very entertaining. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
Registered: 10/24/2008 Posts: 39 |
Believe their pros run about 7700# |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
yep Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
wow
|
Can you imagine our pros at 7700 lbs. with a 24.5 tire??? Holy poop, What a ride!!! |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
Here can buy high quality turbo parts and pumps.
www.herlevi.fi Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 09:12AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
RunRockyRun
|
[www.youtube.com]
Even at 7700 lbs no US Super Farm is even going to come close to Rocky...Thats my favorite European PS... |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
Anonymous User
|
Of course they will spin a 4.8 @7700lbs, the next question will be why do us pro stocks have to weigh 10000lbs? |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
huh???
|
so youre saying that because they weigh less they can spin a bigger turbo????? so if our pros weighted 8k then would they spin 6" turbos right??? NO!!!! they would run a different gear!!!!!!! didnt know the weight made you need to swap turbos!!!! NOT! if they weighed 10k then they would drop a gear or two and they would still spin the 4.8 |
|
Re: our pros and theirs
|
Yes huh u got it
|
Most definitely if we went down to 7700 we would have bigger chargers!! |
|
Europe uses American parts
|
Anonymous User
|
I don't buy the line that the European tractors are more advanced...they all seem to like getting their turbos and fuel systems from the same place the Americans do..Columbus or hyper max! Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 12:02AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
You's be surprised how many (especially in the top) are not getting their parts from the US and those who do still put the big 4.6 and 5 inch chargers on smaller engines...
From what I got, helping with getting parts for a new Pro Stock here, a lot of internals you can either buy here or in the US, but US is usually cheaper, because they have higher production numbers and labour is also cheaper in the US than here. Fuel pumps you can get "competetive models" on both sides of the pond, good heads here, Turbos here or in the US,.. It's in a way like we have some guys doing most of their own stuff and others just like to order "ready made" and those who like to order, usually end up buying in the US, because of the price... So if you want to have a "Top 10" tractor, you can get one under 001-1-800-horsepower with way less hassle than trying to get friends with top guys here and hope they'll do you parts for a good price. But putting together a winning Pro Stock out of US parts only... hmm.. not anymore. The Rocky Team usually takes care of those "imports"... As far as I know, they do their own turbos, have their own fuel pump guy and also port their own heads: Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 12:03AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Not impressed
|
Don't kid yourself if u think the top euro pro's aren't running US parts, Rocky and 1 of the Valtra tractors were in cds's calendar last year or the year before,can't remember I will have to check. Your tractor doesn't get put in that unless u spend a big chunk of change there..Not to say they didn't take those turbo's and pumps and had them copied and are running them now... Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 12:03AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
And your point is?
I didn't claim they run "no US parts", I just said "US parts only" doesn't cut it anymore. According to their website, Rocky runs a "home made Turbo", a MDT Sigma Pump and Barend himself is excellent in porting heads - and I would actually claim his heads are currently better than anyone elses. Which is kinda useless art for the US Pro Stock class with it's billet heads, so I could very well imagine not too much effort went into stock heads for US tractors lately. Those who would spend the money for it in the US probably go billet anyways. The Valtra guys have post a link to their stuff here in that "our Pros and theirs" topic, under the name Diesellandia: billet pumps and various turbos. Still: Your market (Tractor Pullng) is I'd say a 10 times bigger circuit and on top labour is cheaper. I just saw one of them really nice Humpco billet carriers being put into the tractor of my friend. For what he paid for it, we who reside next door, can't even make it (we run one pretty alike which we built on our own, before we ware aware of Humpco selling them)... not even if we make 20 of them. Not even considering it's hard to get any CNC work done here at present anyways, as we lack labour force right now and companies are running at more than full bore and can care less about building some "freaky stuff" for us nut cases. And we'd never be able to sell that many either as there is maybe 10 teams who'd buy them, then somebody in the US builds the same thing for a fraction of the price and kicks us out of the market. So I don't think we'd even bother making another one but just send a check. There still are some parts we build and run, which cannot be bought and give us an edge over the competition (to make up for our choice of engine) - and we have just stopped telling about them after finding carbon copies of stuff designed in our shop all over the place. And I would believe, it's the very same with all them Pro Stock parts, too. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 12:03AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Not Impressed
|
I was stating a fact that 2 of the top euro pro's were in cds's calendar,and your not going to be featured in it without spending the bucks for a fuel and air setup... Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 12:05AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Bingo
|
That's why I haven't seen red line fever on it  Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 12:04AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 12/19/2010 Posts: 163 |
You know for sure redline doesn't get air system from CDS? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 12:04AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
... are you sure they are still running CDS parts? I know they used to... Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 12:04AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Sascha,
Thanks for giving us the inside scoop on US and European parts. I think you've done a great job spelling out why some parts are outsourced to the US and why some are "homemade". Regarding the calendar - it's a very thin argument to speculate how much money someone spent because they are featured on a calendar. A calendar usually needs a little variety and it doesn't hurt to put a European tractor on it (especially a Valtra) to give it some international flair. It makes the calendar more interesting and it gives the impression that Columbus has a very far reaching handle on the pulling world (it does). It's an excellent marketing move if nothing else, no matter if a puller bought one turbo, or pumps/lines/injectors/turbo/etc… it makes for a better calendar, but it doesn't mean they broke the bank at Columbus. My original statement was "Europe has some of the most technologically advanced Pro Stocks anywhere..."
Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Not Impressed
|
Yeah I'm sure cds puts a euro pro in there calendar because they happend to buy a set of injector lines from them,so then they can can send it out to impress customers that are spending money already with them... Now that's thin!! You know what they say about opinion's? There like butt holes everyone has one but some stink worse than other's !!! |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Anonymous User
|
Not impressed most likely HAS NO TRACTOR. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Not Impressed
|
Did you get a calendar from cds ? |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Anonymous User
|
No. I dont blow smoke. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Not Impressed
|
Figures, Another one that doesn't have a dog in the hunt.. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Anonymous User
|
And YOU do???? |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
No Perry
|
He doesnt, he has either seen the calander at a buddies or somebody bought him one. His posts are proof of that. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Dear "Not Impressed",
Please don't misconstrue or misinterpret what I said. I apologize if I wasn't clearer; I'm merely saying I have no opinion on how much they spent or why they were featured in a calendar. I'm simply stated that I'm not going to speculate at how much they spent at CDS. I don't know if they spent $5,000 or $50,000. I don't write or cash their checks, and I doubt you do either. I gave a reason why it could be a good marketing move to include them, but I never speculated regarding their level of investment. They could have bought two parts, it could have been twenty, I really don't know, and most likely you don't either. Here's what's slightly ironic about this whole thread: hypothetically let's say all the top European Pro Stocks run the newest American parts, lets also say that American parts are the absolute best parts money can buy (you won't get any argument from me here, I think we build some of the absolute best parts). That means the European tractors are running the latest and greatest American parts available. That alone bolsters my argument more that "Europe has some of the most technologically advanced Pro Stocks anywhere..." I mean, after all, they are running the latest and greatest American parts; you can't get much more technologically advanced than that! In an ironic twist the comments are actually strengthening my initial statement. By arguing that they use American parts people have actually proven my initial statement to be correct. The US parts are top notch, and the European parts they use must be equally as good or they wouldn't use them. Europe has some great Pro Stocks, some of the most technologically advanced Pro Stocks anywhere, let's not pretend they are pulling a ox cart with a tractor on steel wheels and cleats. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Anonymous User
|
Jake:
Dont apologize to that jackwagon, he just blowin smoke up everyones rearend that will listen . |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Not Impressed
|
I know your a fan of the euro pro class and thats fine, I never criticised there performance.. When Sascha posted...I was stating the fact that they had done business with cds..Now are they running those same parts, copy's of them or tweaked those parts or came up with somthing completely different I don't have a clue..I hope they can come up with pumps and turbo's that out perform and last twice as long as anything cds or hyper can produce and start shipping them back this way and everyone will be tickled.. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2012 03:54AM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 01/20/2010 Posts: 30 |
You don`t know how close you are to get what you are asking for...
Check this out: [www.herlevi.fi] |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Anonymous User
|
Alrite then. I am a fan of euro pulling, while basically the same, it is different. Looking forward to my 7th trip over this year. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
Good to see we are finally getting to some common ground here. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
If i am not mistaken the valtra that the lady ( i think johanna is her name) had some hyper parts a few years back and it ran good. Sounded different than the other two which sounded like cds parts. I could be completly wrong though. either way i still love there pros |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Yep, but even if I went and spent a fistful of $$'s with CDS and ended up in their calendar, doesn't mean its bolted on my tractor! I have looked under Rocky's hood on many an occasion and that pump is definetly not a US item, the turbo is hard to say, as the European guarding keeps them under wraps pretty well. The Valtra team have run all sorts of pumps, I have seen CDS Billet, Hypermax Billet, Sigma and their own pumps fitted during the past 3 or 4 years. Once again I dont know about their blowers, but if you check their facebook page out they are busy experimenting with different turbo combinations! Either way, like Jake says lets not take anything away from either class, they both make a good show. Come over and see the Eurocup competition, you will like what you see for sure! |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 01/17/2009 Posts: 15 |
Sascha has hit the nail on the head (again). Most of the current eurocup pros have had or are using parts from the US, but this is just for ease and/or cost. Dont get me wrong, most of the parts are excellent but you wont win going down this route, only end up running with the also rans. To get anywhere near the top 10 or so your going to have to do your own thing and make and/or modify a lot of stuff if you want to get anywhere near winning. I`m not knocking the American parts, but a fistfull of $ spent in the US is not going make you a winner. The thing is, at the end of the day, a Euro prostock is a totally different beast to a Stateside prostock tractor and therefore what works for one doesn`t mean its going to work for the other. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
i think you need glasses...Rocky"'s fuelpump and turbo are cds.
all the good pros run cds or hyper pumps and turbos. the reason they can spin a big turbo with 510 cubes is because they turn more rpm. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
... ok.. now if even some guys running PS tractors in the Euro Cup circuit can't agree on here... Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Anonymous User
|
Sascha, You know how the smoker guys are............or at least the smoker fans have very strong "opinions"..... |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Check here, [www.facebook.com]
These parts not coming Cds or Hypermax. |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Sorry last season Rocky was running a CDS Billet pump.
My mistake, however if I remember correctly until then he was running a Dutch built Sigma and still doing pretty good! |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
facts
|
the pumps and turbos over there have been disected and copied.sadly thats the facts |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Registered: 01/20/2010 Posts: 30 |
...and improved! Can't see anything sad about that... wouldn't you guys be happy to buy a BETTER billet pump for half the price? Belive me, there is a lot of air and smoke in the price for those "latest and gratest parts"...
And about copying... what would you guys do when your latest high priced turbo blows up halfway down the first pass? Carefully unbolt the unit and send it back to the builder just to hear some odd comments about missuse, not suiting your application, or something else that doesn't mean a smack... or would you take it apart and try to find out what went wrong? Money doesn't grow on trees on this side of the pond either, so we have to be careful how we spend our hard earned... so when last years "latest and gratest" turbos blew up faster than you can turn around, something had to be done. The where taken apart and it was found out that the turbine wheel was TIG welded to the shaft... and it wasn't even a proper weld that stood any chanse to hold up.... Take a look here: [www.herlevi.fi] Those turbines in the pictures are NOT TIG welded to the shaft! They are manufactured in a proper way so they will hold up! I would say that this is just normal evolution, someone made a part that is not good enough, and the next guy improved it so it works, and while he was at it he might have done some other design changes so it works even better... |
|
Re: Europe uses American parts
|
Big deal if the Euros copy American parts...the Sigma was made in France to begin with. So who started the copying? |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,771, Posts: 229,938, Members: 3,338.
This forum: Topics: 37,096, Posts: 226,027.
Global: Topics: 38,771, Posts: 229,938, Members: 3,338.
This forum: Topics: 37,096, Posts: 226,027.
Our newest member Jacklovik2009
