12:47:54pm, Wednesday, May 15, 2024
|
Falls City Bush Pull
|
bush fan
|
I would like to thank Nebraska Bush for an outstanding show at Falls City last nite. I recently watched an outlaw show in Ravenna and I would have to say I preferred the Bush Show over Outlaws. The competition in bush is amazing. 6 modifieds within 10 feet is pretty impressive and 3 within tenths of each other wow. Variety was spectacular and the the limited pros, unlimited supers, and light supers all great classes. Shawn Wiens was impressive put 40 feet on Elmer. Over all one hell of a show. Any promoter should think twice before changing to an outlaw event. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
ss
|
Elmer kicked the @#$%& out of wiens at ravenna both nights so dont be gettn a big head on ya! |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
Anonymous User
|
Great show by the Nebraska Bush Pullers. Hats off the the Jaycees for the great track and facilities. Enjoyed every minute of the show. Great group of pullers and awesome tractors. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
nebraska fan
|
Outlaws had a 105 hooks each day at Ravenna. Hard tyo believe Bush had that many at Falls City. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
Pllnfn
|
Some prefer quality over quantity. If you prefer tractors to trucks, then Bush pullers are a good show to see. Sometimes, Bush pullers get some big names there and put on a tremendous show. Plus there are some extremely popular limited pro stocks that cannot pull with the Outlaws. Remember too that Nebraska tractors are also a big part of the show when the Outlaws come to the area, and that's important. It's best to have pullers that support both organizations. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
Accounts payable
|
Pretty sure Ravenna cost around $50,000 a night and Alot of average machines went down the track |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
Registered: 08/24/2009 Posts: 27 |
Very good point Pllnfn. There are good points to be made about the Nebr. Bush Assoc. and the Outlaw Assoc. as well. Both Associations have quality competition vehicles and the most important thing to remember is both organizations have some of the greatest competiters and loyal fans of anywhere in the country. Ninety nine percent of them are great people, but it seems that there is always that one percent that has to try to stir things up and cause resentment of some kind. Thats senseless. We may not all belong to the same organization but we are all in it for the same good reasons. Support each other for the good of any organization. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2012 04:58AM by VOODOO. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
TOP GUN
|
To Plllnfn and VOODOO , Thank You for the comments. This is the best senseful statement I've read on here for a long time. This isn't a fight between the two organaztions, it's the need to work together for the sport called tractor pulling, thank you. Darin |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
stevedeckinger
|
Thanks everyone for the compliments! It was a lot of work to get everything ready and people talked into having a bigger pull other than the annual farm pull but it all paid off in the end. I have yet to hear any negative feedback from Pullers or fans. Our hope is to make this event grow over the next few years. We have already discussed things to do different that will improve pit space and spectator seating. Thanks to all who attended! In ending I as a fan attend both Bush pulls and Outlaw pulls all Summer long. I enjoy them both and have nothing negative to say about either one! Just go pull and have fun! See everyone somewhere down the road! Thanks Steve |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
outlaw pulling fan
|
Not for sure what Bush fan was smoking, but come on. Falls City had about 1/3 the hooks that Ravenna had and most all the tractors were at Ravenna except for those single engine mods. Bush had all 5 classes with 35 hooks total at Falls City, while Outlaws the next night in Arlington had 4 classes with 42 hooks. Twice as many super farms, twice as many light super stocks, twice as many limited pro stocks, and 10 of the big diesel supers that Bush does not even offer. On top of that they had more hooks than Bush had at Falls City in Taylor, Texas on the same night as Arlington with 4 different classes. Before you get on here and knock Outlaws, I would look at the facts on the 2 websites. Arlington was a Bush pull last year and they made the right choice this year. How about a Falls City, Arlington Outlaw sweep next year. That would be alsome. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
midwest pulling fan
|
Outlaw Pulling Fan..... your a idiot. and i don't think Falls CIty will be going Outlaw anytime in the near future! There are a lot of promoters that just don't want to put up with all the crap that is involved in having a Outlaw Pull. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
other fan
|
I prefer quality over quantity. The most outlaw tractors can't hang with other national level organization tractors. And keep in mind when they put on other turbos or other changes they are no longer outlaw tractors. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
Puller of both
|
The outlaw's and the bush both have very good assets, along with their downfalls, no organization is perfect. To me as a puller and a fan of both organizations, I feel that it would make more sense if the two groups would stop all the complaining and become one. Take the time sit down as two whole groups and figure out what rules you want to adapt for each class, there aren't enough differences to make a difference for the better or worse. There are to many schedule conflicts that hurt the numbers in some of the classes, where as if the two organizations joined together and became whatever name would make the majority of the members happy, you could have separate classes in different towns on the same night (like they did with arlington and the texas pull). This would make it a lot easier for people in this area to pull more often. One of the big problems I hear about the joining is the loss of the bush mod class. Why can't the outlaw's just add this class? They already have two lss classes, why not have two mod classes. Last off, from a pullers standpoint it would make us affording the memberships and insurance a lot easier. It's kind of foolish for us to have to buy two different memberships and two different insurances to pull in the same reigion. Just my .02 and just to clarify....I AM NOT BASHING EITHER GROUP!! |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
amen
|
Outlaws extended the olive branch, but it fell on deaf ears. A lot of the Bush membership wanted to go with Outlaws, but were denied even to bring it up for a vote. Here is copy of letter from Outlaws wanting to work with us.
DATE: 12/05/11 TO: Nebraska Bush Members, Nebraska Outlaw Members, & OTTPA Board Members FROM: Doug Roberts, OTTPA President This past month I have been contacted by 2 Nebraska Bush Promoters, and just this past week another Nebraska Bush Promoter called about what it cost to have an Outlaw pull at their event. It takes a lot of different things to make a pulling event successful for these promoters, and probably the most important is a good turnout of vehicles in each class, followed by some different vehicles for the fans to see from year to year instead of seeing the same vehicles, year after year. At the OTTPA Banquet in Omaha, NE, and since then, I have been contacted by several competitors that are both Nebraska Bush members & Outlaw members asking if we could work out something together. I told them I would give it some thought and respond before the Nebraska Bush Pullers meeting, They furnished me the Nebraska Bush membership list. The list shows 86 members and 53 pulling vehicles of which 60 members and 43 vehicles are from Nebraska. Outlaws has 238 members and 186 pulling vehicles of which 65 members and 44 vehicles are from Nebraska. When I got on the Nebraska Bush website and looked at the 2011 events, and results there were basically 12 sessions of pulling in Nebraska (Arlington, Pickrell, Seward, Diller, Pierce, Leigh, Beatrice, Wayne, Crete, Lincoln, West Point, and Leonardville, KS. The first two on the schedule in Pattonsburg, MO and King City, MO I did not count in my figures. Only 5 Nebraska tractors went to Pattonsburg and only 3 Nebraska tractors went to King City. When I added up the results this is what the classes averaged at these 12 events. Super Farm – 9.5, LSS – 5.1, MOD – 8.5, USS – 4.3, LPS – 5.6, for an event average of 33 vehicles per event. With a purse of $2000 per class paying out 7 places x 5 classes most all these events had a $10,000 purse. The average cost per vehicle at this purse is $303. With about 5 minutes time allotted per hook, it will be an expensive entertainment value for these small event promoters. Nebraska Bush charges full purse, even if the classes are not full. 6 times there were only 3 in a class, 8 times there were only 4 in a class, 8 times there were only 5 in a class, and 2 times there were only 6 in a class. Outlaws in 2011 had 10 sessions of pulling in Nebraska (Ravenna-2, Gibbon, Carroll, Scribner, Weeping Water, Wisner-3, Grand Island). A promoter can pick 3 Outlaw classes, for example LSS, SF, LPS with a purse of $4000 each paying out between 12 to 15 places x 3 classes for a total of $12,000 per event. The average last year for these 3 classes was 14.5, 15.8, and 13.7 for a total of 44 vehicles per event. That averages out to $272 per tractor which is $31 less per tractor, or 5 minutes of entertainment value ($372 per hour) If a Outlaw class is not full, promoter gets to keep purse on places not paid out. Beside the cost, add in the fact that a lot of new vehicles will be at their event, and you can see why promoters are looking for a change. On the other hand if Nebraska Bush Pullers and Outlaws could go together and co- sanction some of these events, and it just adds 5 vehicles per class above the Outlaw average x 3 classes that would be 60 hooks for $12,000 which figures out to $200 per hook. That is 1/3 less than what they are paying per hook now with Nebraska Bush and the show would be twice as long. This is about the same average per vehicle cost we have at our big events like Wisner, NE. when these classes average 18 to 20 vehicles or more. In 1998 I had just been elected Outlaw President and Dennis Goodwin called me about ITPA (Iowa Tractor Pulling Association) joining forces with Outlaws. At that time Outlaws only had 10 events and plenty of open dates. Iowa was a charter member of NTPA, but were not getting any help from NTPA with vehicle count unless it was a Regional 3 event in Iowa, and a lot of their events were having less and less vehicles, in turn less and less fans, and they were starting to lose some of these events for this reason. The membership to join NTPA was getting higher & higher each year and they were not getting as much in return. Places like Hinton, Iowa were down to 25 vehicles and less than 40 hooks as classes like the Modified tractors were hooking twice at different weights, same with the Super Stock classes. Some classes only had 3 to 6 vehicles in them. Total purse was about $8,000 and attendance was going down. Dennis said ATPA had offered them $10,000 to join them, and wanted to know what Outlaws had to offer. I told Dennis we couldn’t offer them money, but we could help their events with more and different vehicles, which would lead to more spectators and then better purses as the promoters made money. All of the ATPA vehicles were back east and most had different rules, and ITPA would not get any help from them at these events. I went to the Iowa meeting that winter and told them my plan and answered questions about Outlaws. ITPA voted for our help, not ATPA money and the rest is history. Now we hook close to 100 different vehicles at Hinton in front of a huge crowd, and they pay us a good purse. The same is true at a lot of the other Outlaw events. At the same time TPM (Tractor Pullers of Missouri) a charter member of NTPA was going to fold up for lack of vehicles, as promoters were starting to quit using them for this reason. They also wanted to join forces with Outlaws and we took on their events, but that first year, schedules were already set, and we could not give them much help with vehicle count. Some weekends we would have the same class at an established Outlaw event, a TPM event, and at an ITPA event. Some weekends we had the same class at 3 places on the same day. Before we could work on scheduling for the next year ATPA offered them $10,000, and dissatisfied with Outlaws they took the money, and started back up as TPM (Tractor Pullers of the Midwest). With about a dozen events they had the same problems as before, no vehicle count. The next year they got $20,000 from ATPA, and in 2 years they folded up again as the promoters didn’t care about the money pullers got, they wanted more vehicles. . . From what I have been told PPL gave Nebraska Bush Pullers $25,000 and some free Lucas Oil products. In return everyone had to join PPL at a cost of $425 ($200 vehicle - $225 membership) 86 members x $225 each = $19,350, plus 53 vehicles x $200 = $10,600 for a total of $29,950 sent to PPL for $25,000 and some oil products. Plus everyone had to join Nebraska Bush Pullers at 86 members x $50 = $4300. That is $34,250 paid by Nebraska Bush Pullers in membership and insurance for about 12 hooks. About half your membership (42) joined Outlaws and had to buy different insurance this year for a total of $525 x 42 = $22,050. On top of that Nebraska Bush Pullers paid Outlaws $6300 in 1-time hook fees at different Outlaw events. This is a total of $62,600 paid for membership, membership insurance, and 1-time hook fees. This is too much unnecessary expense, we need to work together to get this cost down. . My proposal from the Outlaws to Nebraska Bush Pullers to help each other, and especially the Nebraska promoters is for Nebraska Bush Pullers to drop out of PPL and join Outlaws. This way we can co-sanction some events together without the promoter paying 2 different $800 event insurances. This will also allow Nebraska Bush Pullers to hook at Outlaw events without paying 1-time hook fees. We could co-sanction some events (Outlaws & Bush) and group some events together and make sweeps like Diller on the way to Rock Valley; Pickrell, Seward and Gibbon; West Point, Weeping Water and Leonardville; McCool Junction and Grand Island. Also when our schedules overlap on the same day we could alternate some of our 4 classes that are the same, every other year between the events. This would give both Nebraska Bush Pullers & Outlaw promoters a little different show each year. For example, if a Nebraska Bush Promoter is paying $8000 for LSS, SF, USS, LPS and getting 25 total vehicles (Ne. Bush class averages) he could pick 2 of the same classes for $8000 (Outlaw purse) and co-sanction the 2 classes with Outlaws and have 35 vehicles (class average Neb. Bush & Outlaws) plus have a different show than the fans have seen in past. In return Outlaw Promoters would co-sanction the other 2 classes with Nebraska Bush Pullers so they can also have a good show. I think both sides could sit down and work out details on entry fees, tech, etc., but the main issue is if Nebraska Bush Pullers would adopt the same rules as Outlaws, especially this year with changes in rules in SF, LSS, and LPS classes at the Outlaw banquet. . ……..The Xcalibur Pulling Association just had their banquet this past weekend and made all their rules in P4x4, LSS, SF, 4WD, & LPS classes match Outlaws as we did some co-sanctioning last year in some classes that matched, and now we can help each other in all classes at different events. When I looked at the Nebraska Bush Pullers results on the website you gained no new members from PPL to help with class numbers in the LSS, USS or SF classes. In the LPS class you only had a few new tractors at some events when they didn’t have a hook somewhere else. In return since you have different LPS rules than Outlaws you lost more Outlaw LPS tractors than you gained new LPS tractors. When it comes to the Nebraska Bush Pullers Modified Tractor class, this seemed to be a good class with 9 at most events and an average of 8.5 for the season. For example, Outlaws has 2 four-wheel drive truck classes (P4x4 & Modified 4WD). Since the P4x4 trucks do not travel as well, and most are in Missouri we hook them close to home, and at events that cannot afford the 4WD class. With 2 different 4-wheel drive classes I can hook one down south and the other up north and give both promoters a 4-wheel drive class on the same day and at the bigger events we can have both classes. With the Outlaw Modified Tractor class we do not have that option, as we have only 1 class of Modified tractors to offer and they are the most requested class by our promoters. With some of our southern promoters already having the class booked, we need some modified tractors at some northern events. I think we could really use the Nebraska Bush modified tractor class at some Outlaw events when there is not a conflict of dates with Nebraska Bush Pullers events. They could hook at some of our Nebraska events like Ravenna, Gibbon, Scribner, Weeping Water, Grand Island, Saturday afternoon at Wisner, etc. We also have 9 Outlaw hooks close to Nebraska like Rock Valley, Onawa, Hinton, Sac City, Cherokee, Hawarden, Moville, Sioux Falls, and Parker that might be interested in this class. This class runs the same engines or an equivalent engine as our 2-wheel drive trucks and purse should be around $2500 minimum paying out 8 places. . The bottom line is with our overlapping of geography, location of events, and members in Nebraska the Outlaws can help your association and promoters grow more than PPL. While I can’t offer you any money, I can offer you savings. Last year Nebraska Bush members spent $6300 in 1-time hooks, and more would have hooked if not for the expense of the 1-time hook fee. Being an Outlaw member you can hook at any Outlaw event without that charge. The way our competitor insurance works, Outlaws is only responsible to pay insurance for the members it had the year before, so for the new members from Nebraska Bush Pullers that were not an Outlaw member last year your membership would be $150 less per member for a savings of about $4500. You will not have to hang any banners. Even when we had O’reilly Auto Parts for a sponsor, some of our promoters had different auto part stores for sponsors and it was a conflict of interest. Hanging all those different banners does not do anything for your promoters as they are not getting any money for that. Also the top 2 in end of season points in the LSS, SF, USS, & LPS you get an automatic invite to Western Farm Show in Kansas City like we do now with Xcalibur. The main thing Outlaws can do for the Nebraska Bush Pullers is make your events better by having more and different vehicles at your events. By having more vehicles at your events, it will lead to more spectators and profits for your promoters. This in turn will lead to better purses in the future, which will make your vehicle count go up even more. Then new promoters will look at Nebraska Bush Pullers to spend their entertainment dollars on at their events. I told the Nebraska Bush Promoters that contacted me I would get back to them after your meeting. Right now Weeping Water wants to go to 2 tracks with 6 classes, Scribner wants to add a class, and I am looking at 2 new events in Nebraska that contacted me. Thanks, Doug |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
Registered: 08/24/2009 Posts: 27 |
To Amen, By what YOU have written, I assume you are a member of the Nebraska Bush Assoc. as I am. Would you please post your name? Steve Nickel |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
Anonymous User
|
I bet "Amen" lives in Carthage, MO. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
screamin 6
|
Jake can you delete this thread it just got really stupid. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
stupid...yes
|
Why dont ALL pulling groups adopt the same rules??? Then u cud pull in new york, nebraska anywhere an have the same rules.....oh wait....that would make sense.... |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
wow
|
There is no place for that in tractor pulling. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
reasoning
|
The reason that Nebraska Bush wants nothing to do with the outlaws is because they don't want to deal with the petty rules made. for example, in the 4.1 class you must have a small block engine, old style pullers, and an turbo sold in two locations.... there is no reason for these rules.. other than dougy wanting to weed out the competition... |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
Really
|
From the results last year and this winter it seems Outlaw pullers do well when pulling against the no rules, any tires, big spenders in Bush. |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
Yep
|
But they sure as heck won't allow the bush tractors to come pull with them! |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
wait a minute
|
last year at jefferson city, mo ntpa/outlaw pull doug invited a few ppl tractors to run in the 4.1 limited pro stock class because he thought he needed numbers. seems like they were invited to another show also. so you can't say they weren't invited! |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
so
|
So except bush/everybody else in the nation rules! Outlaw is the odd ball |
|
Re: Falls City Bush Pull
|
to: wait a minute
|
Ok mr. wait a minute, we'll just go buy a new set of old tires, a turbo from one of the two locations, oh and a new tractor because outlaws wont allow a case block.... |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,760, Posts: 229,921, Members: 3,337.
This forum: Topics: 37,094, Posts: 226,019.
Global: Topics: 38,760, Posts: 229,921, Members: 3,337.
This forum: Topics: 37,094, Posts: 226,019.
Our newest member DANNY.WAINSCOTT@YAHOO.COM
