Sbjd wet clutch issue July 12, 2012 02:26PM
I just put in a used rursch specialties steel flywheel, pressure plate, pto plate, and center plate. We are haveing trouble gettting the traction clutch to engage it seems. We made one run on a heavy clay track with no slipping in a gear over c4 at 9700lbs and spun out. Weighted it up to 10500 the cluctch didn't come close to holding. Brought the tractor home, split it found the pto side was smoked and the traction side looked great, no real signs of slippage. Put it back to gether, and found a tbs from deere that wanted to make sure there was .200 clearance under the traction fingers. So we set the clutch up and checked that found it wasnt that much clearance so we ground the cover for more room. Also we added machined spool to allow more oil to cool the clutch on the line when spooling the tractor.
Next hook first class spun out in a gear over road gear at 10,000, on a gravely track, next class was 11,500 spun out in road gear. Last class 12000 the clutch sliped right off the line in road gear. We split the tractor found the same thing again pot was smoked traction side was still ok. Has anyone ran into this befor, or have any insite on the situation.
last year ran all year in road gear and a gear over road gear with the cast deere clutch set up as a 4 disk in fact the tractor ran the same clutch for 4 years never had to touch it, now its good for one hook apparently.
running between 200 and 215 for engagement psi and only changes from this year to last is a p pump set near the same cc as my old 500cc apump, new injector nozels and the sfi clutch set up.
Thank you in advance for any input, or if there is a wet clutch guru out there I would like to talk with them.
-Jed
PS this is on a early serial number 4430 running 3000rpm with a 2.5 inlet to the turbo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2012 02:42PM by barncat601.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 12, 2012 03:30PM
How are you sending oil to the two pistons?
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 12, 2012 11:23PM
Yes we have drilled the ports to apply oil to both pistons
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 13, 2012 07:19AM
We have the identical set up as you do. Do you have trouble shifting the tranny when the engine is first started? We did. Our PTO clutches wear out first also. We have never had the clutch slip. We have been told that the PTO will take ahold first, that is the nature of the beast. So naturally it will wear first. The finger on the PTO do not have to move as far as the traction fingers do to engage. So when you are coming off the line, the PTO clutch is doing all the work. We adjusted the fingers so they are closer toward the fly wheel. Added 50 thousands to adjusting tool to accomplice this. Last PTO clutch lasted 2 tears, but was shot when we opened it up. Traction clutch has NOT been replaced in 3 years. Friend of our had a o-ring leak on one of the tubes from the clutch valve. That really made a mess. Also make sure the o-rings on the piston are in good shape. Hope this is some help.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 19, 2012 06:39AM
Our 4430 will not move when the pto is on or when moving the tractor quits when pto is turned on you cant move when pto is engaged what could be wrong
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 19, 2012 08:22AM
Is this a puller with clutch mods if so what mods did you or just a stock tractor and I asume its a wet clutch not a power shift
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 19, 2012 08:39AM
its a farm tractor that pulls at stock pulls not power shift
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 19, 2012 08:41AM
no mods
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 19, 2012 09:31AM
You either have a problem in your valve body or more likely you have a leak in the pto piston circuit in the tractor. A big leak in the tractor would cause a loss of clutch pressure on the engine clutch anytime the pto was engaged.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 20, 2012 03:36AM
I agree with KTA. I would put a gauge on the main clutch port on the valve body and check pressure with the pto ingauged and disingauged you should maintain around 175 psi if it drops to nothing then you have a major leak in there somewhere. Could be in clutch valve, pto piston o-ring or the pto pipe that transfers oil from clutch valve to piston operating housing.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 13, 2012 09:49AM
Each clutch is good for about 150hp. With just 4 you are probably going to have trouble all the time at your power level. The ptos do come on 1st so when you launch they are the only thing pulling. If you slip very much to build boost you will toast them everytime unless you make it so only one set of fingers operates all your clutches. This can be done but takes a fair bit of machine work. Also be sure it is set correctly to begin with. Early tractors have smaller pistons and use diffrent spacers on the clutch adjusting tool. Besides more power the steel has a lower coeffecient of friction than cast iron so your new steel clutch can't hold as much as your stocker did so that is part of your problem too.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 14, 2012 01:20PM
I am very interested in knowing what is involved in setting it up with one set of fingers? It would help our situation greatly. Thanks in advance for any help.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 15, 2012 05:34AM
The wet pulling clutches I've seen ( Atlas ) only use 1 piston & 6 equal length levers. The 2 piston, different length levers, makes sence if you're rigging a factory clutch to drive with all 4 discs, but absolutely no sence to design a pulling clutch that way. The longer fingers will take advantage of leverage , so 1 piston is sufficient. With 2 pistons trying to work in cunjunction on 2 different length levers, well, not saying it can't be done, but at road gear power levels, you'll get real proficient at splitting that tractor. As said earlier use the bigger piston & new o-rings. Good luck.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 16, 2012 12:51AM
Curious you can PM me and I can tell you how I have done it before.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 17, 2012 02:22PM
A lil off the subject, but was curious about your cubic inches barncat601. I am putting together a 3000 RPM 7.6L with similar fuel and a 2.8 charger, was just wondering what to expect, sounds like your tractor runs really well. I'm also reworking my stock clutch into a 4 disk, hopefully I get the same longevity that you did with your stock setup.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 17, 2012 11:45PM
To be more clear, I am very interested in the 3 finger clutch setup that KTA spoke of and how it works, I tried to contact you but i am not sure if message went through. thanks
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 18, 2012 12:09AM
Im 496 with a good head cam and p pump. I hope to go bigger with my bore in the future. My previouse motor was a 505 7.6 from riverside. I loved that motor pulled for 4 years in my tractor, it was three years old when I got it and never had a lick of trouble with it, but that eas only a 500cc a pump.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 18, 2012 06:10AM
Thought over the 3 lever setup and I really dont understand why this would help. We have ours setup to ingage both pistons at the same time. I would think that as oil pressure starts to hit both pistons at the same time they would both move out to the levers and continue to put increased pressure on the levers untill clutch is fully ingaged. Plus the P.T.O piston has a fair amount of return spring pressure that you would think should slow it down some to allow the trans clutch to activate ahead of the P.T.O to some digree. Why does going to the 3 lever setup work any differant? I would like to try it if I understood why it would inprove the reliabillity of my clutch. Thanks for any help in advance.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 18, 2012 08:03AM
The PTO piston has a greater surface area than the engine clutch piston. The pistons see pressure (lbs/in^2) so a greater area means more force on the fingers. That means that when you are letting the clutch out as it starts to apply the PTO clutches come on first. That is why it is usualy the ptos that burn up first as they are what is launching the tractor then when you let the clutch on out the engine clutches lock in and pull you down the track. Changing to a single set of fingers lets all the clutches start pulling at the same time. It is considerable work and a lot of fabrication to do though. Depending on your power level it may not be worth the effort. If you are trying to run a lot of gear but don't have the power to get it launched without a lot of slippage then it is worth doing. If you can yank it out of the hole without a lot of trouble then its probably not.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 18, 2012 08:30AM
Thank you KTA that makes since. We should not have any problem taking off but got in the habit of slipping out of the hole so its easyer to controll. I guess I will try and see what happens at first. I really need to do a dry clutch and 3 speed anyway. Is someone selling a setup like this and how much?
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 24, 2012 11:40AM
I have the same problem with my five disk clutch slipping after a few hooks. I was told to set it up using the tool setup for a late model 4430. can anything be done to set it tighter? increase down pressure on setting tool? set fingers closer to flywheel? Any help will be great.
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Re: Sbjd wet clutch issue July 24, 2012 12:54PM
KTA wondering if i could call you and talk about changing my fingers on a five disc? We just took it out today and want to make it a little better. thanks.
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