My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 16, 2012 03:59AM
Is it just me, am I really just becoming a cranky old man?I’m already bored with some of the classes that are being run on the national circuits right now. It seems that in most if not all of the national classes there only have 3 or 4 pullers with a legitimate chance of winning the NTPA championship.

My opinion--National pulling needs an overhaul


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 16, 2012 04:47AM
I think alot has to do with money
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 16, 2012 05:12AM
I believe that NTPA years and years ago used to have that drop one hook rule. seemed like a good thing that went away. money is also another issue
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 16, 2012 05:26AM
The drop hook can be looked at two ways. the way you see it as a way to drop your biggest screw up and continue. The other way is you punish the person who is consistant. Why reward someone for their screw up? It is kind of the good old boy way of looking at it. They only get 75 min at the drag race.
Class numbers are determined by number of tractors, association prefrance, payout ,time to compete, competition and schedule.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 16, 2012 05:44AM
Kevin thanks for response. My thinking is the drop hook will insure more pullers to complete the entire circuit. I also understand you point that you do not want to reward a puller that that just messes up and give him-her a free pass.

And with only one "drop' available to a puller the bigger the screw up the one drop will not help that person. It is really meant to keep the pullers in the game and insure the fans that as many precommitted pullers will make as much of the circuit as possible.

Looks an awesome year so far for "Controlled Chaos". Good luck with the rest of the season.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 16, 2012 06:37AM
Dick answered his own question within the question itself. NATIONAL CIRCUIT "S". I think the tractors within the classes are very competitive, just not the numbers in the more expensive classes.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 16, 2012 11:02AM
Money is what it boils down to. It costs so much to build even the simplest puller now. ( if there is one to call simple). Put all the dues, safety equipment, haulers, and etc. together and in todays times people just can't afford to do it. The money is not there to pay back to what comes close to the time and money that one needs to invest to pull on a national level. And it's getting to that point on ANY level. I really don't want to put the blame on anyone but I will say I feel like NTPA kinda made their own bed here by some of the rule changes that they made to make it more exspensive. They lost a lot of member states in the late 90's. Some of those pullers were state pullers that went to national shows in their own state. Numbers were good. This problem has been building for a long time and I am not sure what the answer is. Maybe, if and when this whole economy turns around we will see better numbers at national events. But I , like you Dick are a little concerned that the sport will implode before we get to that point.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 16, 2012 11:11PM
I too agree that money is at the root of this problem. I am 65K into my build with know end in site. Realistically still need another 40K to finish right. And thats just a state level tractor with a cast iron head. It is criminal that it cost this much. Should have started a nascar team probably would have been cheaper!
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 19, 2012 01:57AM
I agree with you Clinton, we put $100,000 into a tractor to be competitive at the state level here in NY where on any given night 20 tractors show up and most will go home with less money than they spend on fuel in the hauler. I love the sport, but the pay-out to the pullers compared to the money being dumped into the tractors is crazy. Maybe the promoters and fairs can't afford any more, maybe they just don't see any reason to pay more when 15-20 tractors show up anyway, I don't know. I do know that I went to a dirt modified circle race a couple weeks ago with a crowd similar to a NY tractor pull and that race paid $10,000 to win, there is another race in a week or so that pays $6,0000 to win. The competitors in our sport have risen the bar and continue to make increased horsepower and awesome looking machines, when will we be compensated for that is the question.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 19, 2012 02:10AM
So true I got about 25000 in a local farm stock tractor. If you look at what some of these guys have in there tractors not to mention their rigs. I would bet a top notch pro stock cost as much as a single nascar car, and what our these guys pulling for with the ppl or ntpa at the national level. Maybe a 1000 to win. Was looking at the running order for the last cup race, and the last place car got 27000 dollars. Just dont make since.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 19, 2012 02:24AM
why travel when you can pull regional or state and get close to same pay, I will agree a pull like tohma should pay alot more and can look at the crowd, what they pay to get in,the beer sales,what pullers pay to pull,and only pay back 10 places, the money the get from sponsors ,(40 regional super farms paying 300 or so to pull 40x300=12000 =4000 a session plus what natpa charges for class)where does all the money go?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2012 02:35AM by Mark.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 17, 2012 06:19PM
You're clueless Dick. That's one of the most awful ideas I have ever heard.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 18, 2012 02:34AM
I think that because of the unpopularity in the country, compared to other motorsports suchs as nascar and drag races, that tractor pulling will struggle a little because of the lack of money from fan attendence and advertising, even though tractor pulling has a large fan base its not near as large as other motorsports.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 18, 2012 02:52AM
Stu; Thanks for response. I had 5 ideas that I posted on changing some classes-rules for the sport. Which one of the five is the "most awful ideas I have ever heard." Or did you mean the opinion article in general. Thanks.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 18, 2012 01:19PM
money,or lack of is why we have not got to the class we wanted to pull in. we pull in a strong "farm stock" class that each year we need to spend 3to4 thousand dollars just to compete, and there sure is not a "national class" for us. the rules or limits need to be set and then left alone . everyone wants to win and thats what it is all about,but just like nhra the basic rules have not changed for years, the drivers skill is what is important, maybe thats where ntpa should start. i have seen superior drivers out pull a higher h.p. tractor every time . if you see a tractor bounceing down the track then see one run smooth down the track , thats the differance between driver skill. the lack of major sponsers of certain tractors or pulling teams is why to the major pulling groups lack numbers
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 18, 2012 01:53PM
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old rookie
the rules or limits need to be set and then left alone . everyone wants to win and thats what it is all about,but just like nhra the basic rules have not changed for years

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but as a drag racing enthusiast, I have to correct the record here. NHRA changes rules all the time. The teams have blown through more money than you can count adapting to the constant tweaks.
And, I'd say going from a quarter mile to 1000 feet was a pretty drastic change for the nitro classes. Other than that, I agree with much of your post.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 19, 2012 02:46PM
i am sorry did not mean to sound like i was a expert on nhra, my point was , i thought that the main basic rules on drag racing had not changed over the years but if they have then i stand corrected. i do understand that at that level of the sport a minor tweek for them may cost thousands of dollars,my major point is if ntpa would just leave the rules alone for say a 5year period but say be always alert to safety issues then the competion may be alot closer and allow new comers to join.i do believe that this may be a total dream of mine , oh well.i guess we poor people just need to be happy we are allowed to pull our "farm stock" and be happy with that, it is very enjoyable for me and my family.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 19, 2012 03:28PM
I beleive there are to many classes of the same style that the average fan does know what they are watching. For the Mods you now have light, mod and unlimited, Supers you have light, diesel and unlimited. In the Prostock you have pros, light pros and super farm, and the case goes on with a few other divisions. When you do this, you're dividing your own classes...what once was 15 tractors is now 5-7. The National orgs need to make some choices. Come up with what will be your "Top Tier" classes and leave it at that. Let the state's run the subdivisions. I know it's easier said than done. no one will agree what thoes "top tier" will be.

Money is also a factor. This sport will continue to fade over the next five years before it is revived with recycled classes that are again "entry level" and get the numbers back up. Isn't this what happend to LSS in the last 10-15 years, Faded, slowly got popular again, became national with huge numbers and quality shows, then became expensive, and now numbers are on the decline again 5-7 for a national pull! PPL and NTPA should be getting major sponsorships in place to get prize money up, not all NASCAR teams are in the black year after year, but not all NASCAR teams are losing money every year like tractor pullers. If you should win and not cover fuel and entry cost's, that's a problem, not to mention parts, labor etc. Even if you love the sport and many do, where is the incentive to work all day, wrench all night and sweat all weekend.

last thoughts...if you throw out the worst hook, throw out the best hook too. knock one off each end you have a better overall average. go to a countdown format like NHRA. reset the points each week over the last 4 or 5 hooks. Enforce all rules. I.E. along with safety, check displacement yearly and after major damage or replacements. Give pullers the confidence that all are on an equal playing field. there seems to be alot of cronieism.

Good night.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 19, 2012 03:53PM
Unfortunatly tractor pullers (in my opinion) will continue to suffer the money strain. Fan base will always be poor compaired to the other big motorsports. We all have to know that tractor pulling is a rural or agricultural based sport, as the population becomes more seperated from agriculture the interest in pulling will continue to dwindle. As the fan base falls so will the possibility of sponsorship of events or individual tractors. I dont have any idea how to fix the money pinch that makes it tough to pull competitivly. Seems once that we all got on the expensive parts bandwagon there is no turning back.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 19, 2012 05:49PM
Thanks Dick for bringing up this topic and giving everyone the chance to voice their opinion. This is something I have been concerned about for the past few years. I would consider myself an avid fan. I’d like to give a little background about my love of the sport. Some of my earliest memories are going to the county fair tractor pull with my Dad. I went to my first national tractor pull in Macon, MO in 1991 at the age of 18. From that point forward, I started following what would be considered the national circuit. For the past 21 years I have scheduled my vacation around tractor pulls. I am not a farmer. I have a job that makes it difficult to get away. I have managed to go to Tomah, WI, Bowling Green, OH, Ft. Wayne, IN, Henry, IL, Freeport, IL, Evansville, IN, Fairfield, IL, Troy, MO, Hillsboro, WI, Macon, MO, Wheatland, MO, Bethany, MO, Ravenna, NE, Hutchinson, KS, Houston, TX, Sigourney, IA, Owensboro, KY, Goshen, IN, Davenport, IA, Waterloo, IL, Miami, OK, and many other small pulls in the Missouri & Kansas area. I also started going to Louisville in 1995 with two season tickets. Since 2002 I have had 8 tickets. You can see that I’ve invested a lot of time and money in following the sport. I’m not independently wealth, so tractor pulling has become the priority on how I spend my free time. For several years, I always tried to go to a new pull each year.

There is no doubt that since there have been 2 national organizations (NTPA & ATPA/PPL) that the quality of a national level show has gone down due to the diluting of the number of competitors in the tractor classes. It has especially gotten worse in recent years. National level events having less than 10 tractors in a class is frustrating. If you look at last weekend’s results for PPL & NTPA, the SSO, Mod and LSS classes were split about 50/50 between organizations. This will be typical for the rest of the season with the exception of Bowling Green. It’s just frustrating when you know you aren’t seeing the kind of product that the sport is capable of producing. It’s like you’re only seeing half of the show. Even in classes such as TWD and 4WD that have enough numbers to support both organizations, I still know that at any given event I haven’t seen all of the competitive trucks in those classes. If you compare this to NHRA and NASCAR, you never feel that you’ve only seen half a show. All of the top competitors are there. That is what puts those organizations at a higher level. You know you are going to see the best at every event.

My solution, that I know will never happen, is for the NTPA and the PPL to work together. One idea would be to have 4 Super Pulls that are co-sanctioned by both organizations. NTPA gets 2 and PPL gets 2. One would assume that NTPA would want Tomah and Bowling Green for their two. A good one for PPL would be Wheatland and not sure about the other one. Make the points at these pulls count for the year end points championship, no matter which organization you are committed to. Also make the points worth 1.5 instead of 1 to encourage all pullers to attend. These pulls would need to offer a much larger purse to the pullers as well.

If they would commit to these 4 Super Pulls for 4 years I think the avid fan base is there to make them successful right off the bat. After the first 4 years, I think these pulls would be successful enough that other facilities would start upgrading to attract a Super Pull of their own. 10 years from now I could see as many as 10 Super Pulls across the country that would showcase pulling at its highest level.

Both NTPA and PPL have strengths and weaknesses. I don’t want to start a debate on which one is better, but I strongly feel that they need to work together to advance the sport to the next level. This may not necessarily mean that it will make them more money to start with. It seems that money may be the main priority in these organizations and they maybe aren’t very motivated at advancing the sport. NTPA may think that they are getting enough ticket sales at Bowling Green & Tomah that they don’t need PPL’s competitors, sponsors, and their associations with other major motorsports. The fact is that they aren’t bringing the best show to those pulls without the PPL’s competitors. PPL benefits with NTPA’s competitors, sponsors, and the classes that NTPA offers that the PPL does not. It is hard to attract new fans when you aren’t putting your best product on the track. I used to take friends and family on the trips I would take to the big pulls. Now I’m reluctant to take someone with me because they start to question why I travel so much to see so little. This sport needs the “wow” factor so that it makes enough of an impression for someone to come back next year or even start to follow the circuit.

I feel that Tomah and Bowling Green events are set up for die hard fans only. Since they require a person to attend multiple sessions, with one or two premier class sprinkled throughout lower performance classes, it is a huge time commitment for a fan to see all of the premier classes. I don’t want to offend anyone here, but Super Farm tractors do not belong on the national level. They have their place in the sport at local, state, and regional levels. They are the equivalent to me to going to the little local circle track or grudge racing night at the drag strip. You don’t see the equivalent of a Super Farm tractor at an NHRA event. Taking another cue from NHRA, 3 days is the maximum number of days for an event. You don’t see 4-5 day events in NHRA like Bowling Green or Tomah. I have been to those pulls a few times and I’ve never been able to attend a Sunday session because I’ve had to come home to work on Monday.

My point is, at these Super Pulls you need to put your premier classes in every session so you can provide an excellent show to the fans. The classes that I feel would make an excellent show are 10 classes total. UNL, Mods, LT UNL, SSO, SSD, LSS, PS, 4x4, 2WD, & MR. If you would look at the number of competitors in each of these classes that are following both national organizations and would get ¾ of them to show up to these 4 Super Pulls, you’d have a hell of a show. A show like we haven’t seen in years.

I think that the sport needs a minimum of 4 or more events like I’ve described throughout the summer to showcase the best it has for it to grow. The fans deserve a pull like this. I would be happy with just 1 of these pulls, but just one big event each summer wouldn’t gain you the momentum to increase interest, add fans, or advance the sport.

Agree with my ideas or not, something has to change or our sport will continue deteriorate which might lead to the extinction of one or both of the national organizations.

Sorry for such a long post, but you can tell I’m passionate about this sport. Thanks.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 20, 2012 01:42AM
Case8888 you've never been to an nhra national event have you? I love all forms of motorsport but NHRA has about 8-10 "filler" classes as you call the super farms (super gas, super comp, comp elimitator ect) at every national event. Their is only 4-6 (counting top alocohol) premier classes then there is 3 days of qualifying for race day and each day of qualifying costs more than two sessons of pulling at tomah. Not to mention raceday prices!! Plus NHRA is in competion with AHRA which does take away some of the top competitors in top fuel classes. Its just like someone earlier said tractor pulling is mostly ag/rual related where race cars are more marketable to anyone and easier to get sponsors and fans. If there was more sponsors and fans then they could have bigger payouts for the pullers.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 20, 2012 03:35AM
First off I want to say these are just my opinions, take them for what they are worth. I only want what is best for this sport. And as a fan I want a better show.

I have been to an NHRA event in Topeka, KS 8 times. The main reason I go to an NHRA national event is to see the sport’s best competitors & equipment at its highest level. I personally don’t go to these events to see 8 second and slower race cars. If I wanted to see that I could take my own 10 second car out of the garage and go to the drag strip. I understand that tractor pulling isn’t NHRA, but don’t we all want to get our sport closer to that level?

The point I was trying to make in my original post is that at an NHRA event I can see the best classes in each session. Generally 2 times a day on Friday, 2 times a day on Saturday, and then the finals on Sunday. This offers multiple opportunities for fans to experience all of the top classes each session instead of spreading them out over the entire weekend. And what happens to the stands when those filler classes are running? A lot of the fans get up to go see what is happening in the pits in the premier classes.

And how would an NHRA event would work if they decided to qualify the top fuel and filler classes on Thursday, Pro Stock and filler classes on Friday, Funny Car and filler classes on Saturday, and finals on Sunday? I think this model would result in reduced ticket sales. Generally this is how tractor pulling puts together their classes. Tomah and Bowling Green case in point.

Me and the group of friends that go with me to tractor pulling don’t come away from an event talking about the super farm class. It just doesn’t have that “wow” factor. I watch the super farms, I don’t get up and leave when they are pulling. I just don’t feel it should be showcased side by side with the other top classes.

You referenced the AHRA. I thought they had gone out of business, so I did some research before this post. Their website is mainly a tribute to the gentleman that started the organization. It looks like they held their last national level event in 2005.

A point I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that it would be critical at the 4 Super Pulls to have the track in excellent shape, the sled set correctly, and the pullers ready to pull when it is their time. The event would have to run smoothly. I think it’s disappointing to go to a pull and see a track that makes it difficult for the pullers to get a hold of or a sled setting that stops the majority of the tractors at around 270-280 feet or a show that is run incredibly slow with way too much time between hooks. The action on the track needs to keep the interest of the fans.

I agree with your point at the end of your post. Tractor pulling needs more sponsors and fans. How do you do this with the current tractor pulling structure? My idea to solve this problem is to put a higher level of show together. With the number of very high quality pulling vehicles that are competing nationally, if the majority of them would compete at my 4 Super Pulls they would bring the sport to a higher level. I feel this caliber of show would attract more fans. And it can’t be one and done. It has to be something that fans really want to attend and plan their vacations around it. It has to have that anticipation and build up like other sporting events. That’s how you get more fans. With more fans, the sponsors will follow, which leads to bigger payouts for the pullers.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 20, 2012 12:27PM
I wasn't trying to bash your ideas, I think a ppl-ntpa shootout would be awesome! I'd be there for sure! I was just trying to point out the nhra race at brainerd or topeka isn't as good a bang for the buck as tomah and they all run filler classes, even nascar has filler classes. And I appoligize about the AHRA, you are correct they quit having national events, they were bought out and still around just no nationals,didn't realize. There has to be a way to make the sport more mainstream to help it flourish. Car racing is a little more mainstream beacuse a city kid can relate to cars, tractors not so much.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 20, 2012 02:26AM
case8888;
Thanks, that may have been one of the best respones-posts I've had the good fortune to read in a long time. I couldn't agree more. I love the idea of 4 co-sanctioned "super bow"l type events, however to accomplished this leadership egos need to be put away and the pullers and fans need to be put first. And this type of show would-should be a promoters-sponsors dream.

The fan is really getting a 50% show, that makes me wonder when a puller wins a championship in their respective organization are they really winning a championship or a 50% championship. I know that no one ever wants to talk about it, but the winner in any organization is only the champion of that association.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 20, 2012 05:40AM
I have to give Case8888 some credit here. He is at least thinking outside of the box and looking at the path less traveled to find a solution. I also agree with Dick in that for this to happen leadership egos would need to be put aside. I have never met the leadership of either NTPA or PPL but I would just guess that both are firm believers that their organization is the best and will come out on top in the end (as I would expect them to think being the leadership of a National level org). I do like the Super Pull idea where both groups co-sanction and those that choose to compete would/could be crowned National Champions. Each organization could still run its own points if they so choose.

People keep saying that we (pullers) need more sponsorship dollars and fans and that we are an agriculture based sport and we will continue to decline as more people get out of farming. I will give you that we may be an agriculture based sport and that we have our roots tied to agriculture. Previous posts mentioned that we will never have a fan base like circle burners. This may be true but I don't feel that it has to be that way. Personally I don't get the point of driving in a circle but I do go on occasion to support people in my community that I know. When I have gone I have noticed that the stands are pretty full (most of the time fuller then pulls I attend with the exception of big national level events). Is that because everyone has roots to moon shining or only knows how to turn left? No. It is to support someone that they know and eventually they find someone that they like and support that person. Do they think that just because they have a car they have more of a tie in with "race cars". No. I think that there are some non agriculture based sponsorships out there for the taking if the right people did the talking and could show a return. Look at what the Nelson's and the Leischner's have done with RockStar Energy Drink and now SpeedCo. When I think of those two companies I don't think of Agriculture. If you have the fan base, sponsorships should be no problem. PPL already has Lucas locked up and NTPA usually has some pretty decent names.

One huge issue I see is one that has been brought up again and again here on this message board. RULES. Everyone wants their own set of rules to either allow something/someone in or keep something/someone out. I fail to see how each group could get hurt too much by each picking a class and trying to align their rules to allow for the other group to fall in with them (without major cost or changes) and give it a year or two to see if they see some of the guys would go play in the other sandbox when the scheduling would allow. I bet they would be surprised with the results. Most that have dedicated that much time, money, and energy would stick with their home organization given two pulls on the same night. If the rules could be aligned at the upper levels then I think that some (not all) would align at lower levels of pulling. If guys didn't need two different turbo setups (as an example) to pull with any group they wanted it may free up some cash to drive a bit further and support the national level groups (with "filler" classes).

Costs have gotten out of control in all of pulling. I run a 2wd truck (NA) in a local organization that is supposed to be an entry level class. 20K-30K is not exactly what I call entry level. I can only imagine the cost (100K+) of what it takes to run a national level truck or tractor. This just prohibits people from coming into the sport and thus limits your fan base because most fans are there to support someone they know. These are just my 2 cents.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 20, 2012 04:59PM
it all depends on what you want or have to spend,randy petro is in a position that allows him to have good cash flow,brian shramek has the flow going for him also more than most probably,some build for others which gives them more flowing in their direction,others are running close to the red,maybe,i don't know maybe they have good cash flow also,but if more better even competion is what you desire then huge sponsorship money is needed to increase viewership which increases money won which allows for the best engine etc etc.will anything change with the current board of directers.get John Force on an unlimited mod or dale jr on a twd and watch out.with the media coverage it may explode.kurt busch had a prostock drag car,he would be fantastic on an unlimited mod,somebody down there in the land of opportunity needs to do something to attract interest for THE MOST POWERFULL MOTORSPORT ON THE PLANET.just my stab at it.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 21, 2012 12:25AM
I agree with most of what is being said. I think however we are at a stage where we are
trying to get the horse back in the barn. We have spent money and built these tractors
to the point that it is starting to limit the number of pullers on all levels.
A tractor running at 350 hp can burn a lot of fuel and make black smoke and if the load is light
it can go down the track at 25 mph. A tractor of this type would be cheaper to build and a lot more of them
running. For this to happen there would have to be a strick set of rules and enforcement to keep all on a level
playing field. The fan wants to see speed and smoke and dirt, a light sled and a light 350 hp tractor can do all of this
at fraction of what we are spending now.
The number of pullers would increase and so would fans, then you will see sponsers increase as the viewers
numbers grow.
Setting of the sled for more consistant results would be easier as we would not have 1200-3000 hp tractors in
the same class. Also a speed limit and a good hammer sled could stop these tractors within inches of each other.
Track maintence would be quick as only a small area would need fixed.
The fact that this sport is being compared to auto racing requires a look at all rules and enforement of them for that sport.
I know those that have spent the big bucks will not like any of this.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 21, 2012 06:36AM
I couldn't agree more! If an organization can provide a full field of tractors event after event, the fans will eventually be there, and the sponsors will soon follow. The only way to fill the classes with tractors is to make it AFFORDABLY COMPETITIVE for all participants. This means restrictive rules that lessen the effect of sheer capital invested and STRICT ENFORCEMENT. Casual fans who are just coming to see a show could care less if the tractors are 500 or 2500 horsepower, as long as they enjoy the experience and leave feeling like they got their money's worth.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 21, 2012 07:20AM
That does not make much sense. We have antique and farm stock pulls everywhere. I have gone to many of them where there is maybe 10 classes with 20 in each. I have never saw 10000 people in the stands to watch that show. People show up at a grand national event to see the best equipment that there is available. We just have to understand that it is a limited fan base/puller numbers. Really the best way for anyone to help the sport is to bring a friend who has not seen it before. One side cant grow without the other. Also most likely the next puller in the class you are watching is setting beside you.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 21, 2012 05:45PM
You're not going to see 10000 people in the stands to watch a grand national show either if there are no tractors to put on a show. That's exactly where our sport is going if something isn't done to get the cost of competition down to a sensible level.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 21, 2012 06:35PM
I will agree with that.. and some set rules that are close together so not such a difference between state compition and national...just my thought
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 22, 2012 04:38AM
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exactly
You're not going to see 10000 people in the stands to watch a grand national show either if there are no tractors to put on a show. That's exactly where our sport is going if something isn't done to get the cost of competition down to a sensible level.

Confused gloom and doom mentality will get you nowhere. What facts are you baseing your opinion on that there "might not be any tractors" at that 10,000 people event. National pulling "NTPA" might need a overhaul, but national pulling is doing just fine. The numbers in the classes tells the true story! The pullers that spend their money,.......... are the ones with the relevant opinion on major changes in a class!
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 22, 2012 02:05PM
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ru sure?
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exactly
You're not going to see 10000 people in the stands to watch a grand national show either if there are no tractors to put on a show. That's exactly where our sport is going if something isn't done to get the cost of competition down to a sensible level.

Confused gloom and doom mentality will get you nowhere. What facts are you baseing your opinion on that there "might not be any tractors" at that 10,000 people event. National pulling "NTPA" might need a overhaul, but national pulling is doing just fine. The numbers in the classes tells the true story! The pullers that spend their money,.......... are the ones with the relevant opinion on major changes in a class!

Perhaps you should do some research. Compare the number of super stocks or unlimited modifieds available to put on a show now versus the number available 15 years ago. By comparison, national pulling is not doing just fine. it's barely hanging on.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 22, 2012 01:06PM
The only viable way I can think of to combat the insane money people are spending on building pullers is to implement some sort of claiming rule, similar to what is done in horse racing. Does anyone know if that has been tried anywhere (perhaps at some local/regional association?)
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 22, 2012 02:59PM
Limits dont make classes affordable. Super farm is a great example. It really should be a class costing around 50k. It really is more expensive than prostock. Add up basically all the same parts and then add the cost of all the parts tried on the dyno along with its cost. If you make a class at a national level people will find a way to spend way too much on it. If u saw garden tractors at gn events someone would spend 100 k on it. One big problem with discussing limits to keep costs down is that there is no minimum amount of money required to be spent. Also there is no max. If u can build a tractor that can win for 10k there ia no rule aginst it. Part of pulling is that you are open to do most anything you want to do. Everyone has the opportunity to use their own parts and knowledge to get the job done. You are not required to buy from some engine builder charging 100k for an engine. If you can get it done for 10k its ok too. Even though this is popular it is not required( prostock- engler chassis,rei motor, k&k metal/paint , columbus fuel and air ,firestone hp s on midwest wheels - go pulling ). You can go pulling on less and win.
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 22, 2012 03:51PM
Seen the grace hook work both ways seen the best tractor and driver miss one hook and lose the championship. Always nice to see consistancy, the second guy usually isn't too far away. Money is always a problem and truthfully it drives me nuts when they claim that there will be no ticket increase at BG, just wondering how long its been since the prize money has gone up at this pull. I know they feed us but fuel in the tank helps a lot. Large classes and how much is the purse enhanced?
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Re: My Opinion- National Pulling Needs a Overhaul July 24, 2012 05:09AM
There is more pulling happening at all levels now than there has ever been since the inception of NTPA in 1969. Don't believe, look how many pulling shops their are today building pulling parts and equipment. Ask those owners if they're busy. Just look around your own home area and discover how many local "organized" pulling associations there are. Most of them, at least in my area, do justice to promoting the overall pulling sport. Yes, those vehicles are not National or even Regional competitors, but for the money those competitors have invested (don't mis-read me here, I'm not belittling them!), they put on a fine show. Those guys and gals, too, know what they can afford and they build to that level. Some of them eventually work their way up to Regional/National.

And then there are the true 'brush' pullers. May be an organized group or many times, not. They, too, love their pulling. This level, in my opinion, has the most variability in investment. Those high dollar ones are usually the one's winning. And my concern about that is what? They scare me to even want to go watch them because of one item. Safety! Many of those tractors may have the performance but where is the safety equipment?

You posters above talk about bringing NTPA & PPL together, but, many pullers already compete in each venue. So I don't totally understand your 'beef'.
But where the real 'getting together' needs to happen is at these lower levels of pulling. Need uniform rules so more pullers, if they so desire, can compete in a larger geographical area and do it safely. And many of the local organized clubs need to merge with another or more group(s) in their geographical area in order to cut overhead cost and bring a larger and more uniform pulling show to their local venues, usually the very rural county fair.
If they did that, this would place more competition upon the state sanctioned and even in some cases, the regional sanctioned pulls already showcased by each of the three major sanctioning bodies today in this country.

Costing. It will never be contained. It is a simple fact of life. Everything over time costs more.Everyone will afford what they can or at least think they can.

Sponsorship. As with anything in life, everyone is responsible. Everyone is doing it - just walking around the pits or out on the street while shopping, you are sponsoring yourself. People are watching and making judgments, right or wrong, about you. Some people are blessed with a gift to sell their or a company or organization's ability. It is not easy or quick to obtain. Dave Schreier at the last NTPA convention said the Case/IH sponsorship was five years in the making. I'm happy they were to acquire it. I trust everyone involved will benefit from it. But, the sanctioning organizition cannot do it all. Each individual must still do all that he/she can. You may be surprised what you may find for a sponsorship. I think the Koester's are a great example in that regard. Bottom line, be responsible for your own actions - it affects everyone involved in the sport we all so love, regardless of our individual finances.
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