11:54:17pm, Friday, May 17, 2024
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new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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abu
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South Centeral Wisconsin Tractor Pullers is thinking about adding 12000# alterded farm/too hot to farm 466-or 505ci class. possibly 12 to 16mph speed limit, a-pump, smaller box turbo perhaps, and safty equipment. Wondering if anyone would be intrested or would have any ideas for this class. we will be having our meeting after harvest to disscuss it.
Thanks- Paul Luety |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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farm "stock" puller
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would pry be interested in attending the meeting just keep us posted when it is |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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abu
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It will be posted on here as soon as the date is made. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 03/25/2010 Posts: 79 |
Is this possible new class intended to replace a current south central class? If guys wana run stock core injection pumps and small chargers and lower speed paces there are plenty of fairs and other places to turn the fuel screw and rpms up and run a little hotter than farm tractors. As far as a cheap pulling class im not sure if there is such a thing, I have heard that pedal pulling is fairly resonable these days, I understand guys are sick of chasing the bigger pocket book guy or sick of pulling with no rules so there has to be some good set rules but how can a club please or suit every brand? Im all for a more reasonable class with set rules, if guys wana run a-pumps thats not going to keep it cheaper than running p-pumps. An 18-20mph pace would be good, 3,000rpms, and a box changer, p or a- pump and I say 505ci max, I think this class is a great idea to keep the cost below hot farm standards, please keep us informed when and where the meeting will be thanks |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Anonymous User
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just thought id throw my opinion out there
466 3000rpm 18-20mph pace box gt42 charger a-pump full safty equipment id be interested in this new class either way |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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abu
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The ideas you have are good and we may look into a class like that as well. This class we are trying to make a toned down version of what we have now. We had alot of intrest from farm "stock guys" to start something with a set of rules in a club to have a place to pull. Thanks for the input tho. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Would like to see stock core pump, 16-18mph and 466ci limit. The 505ci rule in the "466 altered" class has been abused and now is the time to put a cap on it in this new class. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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p pumps r a lot cheaper n the long run ......... try 2 hide n say u wanna keep it cheap.........if u can build it off the shelf it aint a farm tractor............ have a good day with ur pump shop a pump 4430s cheater 3lms n various others |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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i think it is only fair to open it up to 505 ci because there is 2 case tractors in our area that already pull |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Thinkn
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Why does it have to be red and green all the time. 505 lets more colors able to be in there. Plus makes all the colors on even playing field. I think it's great that your looking at a class like that |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
Just and idea:
JD/IH tractors have 466 ci limit NH/Ford tractors have 456 limit or maybe up to 505 if using 8.3 cummins block Case tractors have 504 limit Case/IH, White, Agco or any other make up to 505 if using 8.3 cummins block and must use OEM transmission/rearend (not only housing but internals) MM can use stock 505 MM block and Oliver can also use that block. A/C could possibly use 531? combine block MF can run the 504 v-8 or maybe even 540 Maybe forgetting some other brands. Yes I know I am keeping JD and IH tractors down but they have the advantage with the availability of parts and knowledge. Let's give the other brands a chance to compete until the technology comes around. It needs to have other colors! |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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How about a 370 ci class?
5.9 cummins powered and repowerd tractors. IH folks have 2 or 3 engines. John Deere 359D. Deutz has one right aound 340 ci. Massey with the Perkins 354, |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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lil guy
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How about slowing the friggin speed down guys. Why does a heavy "farm tractor" need to be running that fast? I'm assuming these will not wanna run any saftey equipment either? 18-20 mph is for properly built tractors with the right safety stuff. You wanna run an altered farm I think that 12 mph is plenty. Plus the slower the speed limit the less it makes it about horsepower. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Promoter
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You must be a antique puller LOL!! Sorry to say speed does sell pulls. Anything below 15mph is boring to the crowd in the stands. I think there looking for something a little faster than a "Farm Tractor" And abu did say in his first post Safty Equipment. That's just a must anymore!!!! |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Well you won't have to worry about any fans watching. Boring. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 07/06/2010 Posts: 147 |
N.E.W. Motorsports experimented with 12,000# , 18 mph, 20.8X42 tires. Let the speed limit even out the cubes /
fuel pump issues. It worked with reasonable success, definently evened out 6030 and the rest. took a little bit for sleds and driver's to get used to it with out going over 18 mph. it was also 3000 rpm limit. IH tractors with gears slower than stock 3RD were able to exceed speed limit, with 42's It sounds like pullers are interested in joining club to make it a class for 2013. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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abu
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Thanks for the positive feedback. We know we cant please everyone with the rules no matter what we make it. There seems to be alot of tractors that need a place to start. For example the kid and his father up the road from my place. They want to have a hot farm tractor some day but want to start slow and there tractor is stock. Seems to be alot of others that would fit this class. We are going to be working with a group from illinois so the same set of rules will be with more than one club. Any one who has any other ideas feel free to post. There will be a meeting open to all comming up and i will post it on here as well. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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my thoughts
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12000lbs 3000 rpm, 20.8-38 tires, 18 or 20mph, all safty features, rollbar is fine, cage not needed. limit the turbos. idont know about the pumps. you can get some good p-pumps for cheap. i would try to get color in so what ever cube limit can bring in the most go with that. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Beginer class
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If it’s going to be paced charger and pump are not that important. (If it wasn’t for the current P-pump tractors it would already be very close pulling in too hot to farm.) I think you need the rules so less safety is required (you have a pace, maybe 2800rpm so no blanket of tie bars or rops). I think if all the safety stuff is required it will not be a beginner’s class and most will just keep brush pulling. The reason the too hot to farm class is so big is because it doesn’t require all the safety. I know it’s important but I would set the class up to only require wheelie bars and air shutoff.
Possible rules: -466 or 505 doesn’t matter much -No charger limit it’s paced and that would stop some from being able to pull -It’s a beginner class so I would run 2800rpm with less safety required but that’s a choice you have to make (also hurts the guys buying big chargers to be the big fish in the little pound) -I would do stock core pump but that’s up to you a lot of people in a beginner class don’t want to pull against P-pump tractors. -Pace I would vary from pull to pull from 16mph to 20mph and first puller pulls speed out of a hat so it doesn’t favor one brand or transmission -Stock configuration of the tractor no fabbed or combine front axles -I would require wheelie bars and air shutoff and recommend the rest -If not running the box must have the positive throttle stop on the pump Just my thoughts |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
need to run a rpm box limit p pumps to less rpms cubic inch limit maskes it another 1066 4440 class,limit it tio stock manifolds no extra add on intercoolersalso need turbo limit2.5 or box turbo, put a claim on turbo something to keep price down |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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who is the IL group? |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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not going to work
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If you have to enforce differant rpm for tractors with differant pumps it wont be easy to regulate. What tractor are you trying to get in a 6030, no one wants to pull against them unless they have one so it sounds like you have an iron in that fire. All heavy pulling classes are 66ih and 30 or 40 seiries deeres and it will never change, most popular farm tractors that size also. No reason for a turbo limit if it is paced, cube limit, and rpm limited. It is alot cheaper to buy a little bigger turbo than have one built for 2.5" (what charger came 2.5 or are they going to have to get them built) or what ever and like stated before with the other limits enforced you will only spin a charger so big. Making everyone run the same charger will limit the tractors that can pull your class. Some of the tractors came with an intercooler so I would just limit it to no Ice box. Mabe intercooler no ice or water but not both. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
if speed limits tractors why limit cubes,switzer for 2255 oliver is 2.5,6030,4840 and up have p pumps, and some newer magnums,new hollands etc have them.intercoolers increase torque a lot, if one can run than all should be able to. this just some of the varibles you have to look at. it would not be hard to runp pumps and inter coolers at lower r pms, tag or mark them where you plug monitor in, when you unhook and read you see a tag it is 2500(or what ever you set it at) |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Anonymous User
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If it's called a 466 class limit it to 466ci. If the other brands don't have a 466 option, well it's too bad. If you have 505 stay in the 466 Hot Farm class cause that's what you built it to run in. People will push the limit cause they are getting beat in the Hot Farm class! Could try an A pump with cooler, P pump without and an out of box turbo. I also like the speed limit idea with the safety equip. but could also allow rollbars and cages. Leave it up to the driver, they are the ones paying for it, and it's their butt in the seat. Just my two cents! |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Why not forget the cubic inch size. Make it so a tractor has to run a stock looking pump and a turbo the same looks as a factory one. Hold the rpms at maybe no more than 20% over factory. Doing this would cut the cost alot and someboby just getting in could afford to pull. the 20% over stock rpms would be safe to run without a steel flywheel and a saftey blanket. Also if you hold down the rpms a big turbo wont do alot of good,because they won't be able to turn them. If a tractor dont have to have all safety features alot of people who would like to pull a couple times a year can. This would maybe get people interested in pulling and then they could decide if they want to build a tractor for bigger classes in the time to come.
Tractor pulling has become too expensive for alot of people even the ss and modified guys are crying. Traveling expense,and parts have skyrocketed! |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Allis 426 with a roosamaster will not run with a 466 A-pump. You need turbo, rpm, and cube limits. To make it an entry level affordable class. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
I think with a turbo limit and a small close to stock all makes would be competitive |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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ji
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already to much wining and 2nd of all who wants to watch another pace class- i think it would be hard to sell to a promoter when groups come in for free now- as for 466 red tractors never had one and alot of small blocks are way over that- |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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you gotta have a limit on cube an turbo along with injection pump limit in colby they ran a 8mph hot farm pace on clay, i ran a farm stock 1066 with a stock pumpturned up an a 3lm charger against , tractors with 640 cube an 466's with p pumps the pace didnt help to keep it even when the pan dropped it was all about who had the power an grunt to keep the sled moving an turn them tires. i mean there is no "farm stock" tractor that could handle 16-20mph pace pull, that would be like running road gear in some tractors. as far as not drawing a crowd with a slower pace you'll have just as many people there as long as you got smoke |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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b
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Your rite you will have ppl there for pace classes as well, but its when u pull a tractor out the looks like a farm tractor wit a row bar and go screamin down through at 20 mph is wat gets the fans going |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
5488 and some 2t2s had 466 Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 10:07AM by Mark. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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wi puller
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make it a 466 no larger than an a pump 2.8 charger 3000 rmp and let them run. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 03/25/2010 Posts: 79 |
My thoughts 12,000lbs or 11,500lbs- 505ci max- A or P pump- 3,000rpms- box GT42 charger as far as size??- safety equipment if you dont have a sfi steel flywheel you gotta have a blanket- air shut off/dead man throttle/wheelie bars/rops and tie bars is optional, and if guys wanna run pace I think its gotta be around the 18-20mph pace if you wanna try and sell this class to a fair or something, no group is going to wanna pay to have a club come in and run just above farm stock when they can make that kind of class up them selfs for free, just some ideas and I know its not going to work for everybrand. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 08/18/2009 Posts: 79 |
So have you decided when or if you will have a meeting on this? |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Anonymous User
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illini state pullers has sanctioned a 2hot 2 farm class for 2013. Maybe the class could be similar, for more hooks for everybody. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
oliver had 636,mf had 510 540 640, ih 565 Jd 531 619,you going to allow intercoolers? If so factory or aftermarket and what about pump rule? And biggest rule of all a RPM pick up a must and a turbo limit. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Flyin Farmer
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Wheelie bars and air shut off a must. Tie bars and rops strongly recomended. 2.5 turbo, "factory appearing pump", 505 limit, throw away the MPH rule. MPH rules dont impress spectators. Save the MPH for the auger/baler tractor at the county fair pull. 2800 rpm is plenty. 20.8-38 tires. Allow top cutting at least, its alot more expensive to travel all over the country side looking for that just right road wore set than it is to dress up what you have. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Posts: 756 |
IF you want a startup class speed at 12mph is a easy way to limit cost and safety issues. We all know that speed limit classes will not impress the spectator as much as the fast tractors. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 08/18/2009 Posts: 79 |
That sounds like another boring farm class. Our round baling tractor will do 12 mph in a 12000 lbs class. Spectators wanna see smoke and a little ground speed. 15 to 18 mph. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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well said
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If this is supposed to be a "startup" class to get people involved, then you need to be concerned foremost about keeping it safe, competitive, and cost effective for all brands so it will appeal to more prospective competitors. Save yourself a lot of headaches and don't put too fine a point on rules. 2800 rpm and 12 mph for all brands will bring the tractors, and the tractors will bring the spectators. Ain't nothing entry level about 18 mph. A 12 mph class with a field full of color is a whole lot more fun to watch than another wannabee "too hot to farm" class comprised of the three tractors that couldn't cut it in the class they originally built for. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Meeting
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Have they had this meeting yet? If not, when
Thanks |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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been watching
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its funny always hearring crying wanting color what about a factory propane tubochaged MOLLINE every class outlaws them allows all kinds of bull thats never been seen in a tractor but you cant pull something factory euq what a joke all the smoke blowing only classes are |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 263 |
You can't let so few destroy a class for so many, sorry to anybody who pulls one but the 640 Perkins is the worst thing that anybody has ever tried to include in pulling with the 619 not far behind. Too many class were built for 'color' that has never and will never show up so in turn you just drive up the cost for the guys that are actually going to pull in the class. Anybody who disagrees can go try and buy a top running super farm tractor and spend over $100,000 because the same type of people wanted to have all the brands included so the rules are what they are and last I check it's still a red and green show, just a more expensive one. I guess my point is if guys are going to pull/build the odd ones they are going to be spending more money regardless of the cubic inch rule of the class, so why make everybody spend the extra money????
No disrespect to Carlton, that thing is f**king awesome and before you rip this post to pieces you should know that I pull a 640ci IH, just my prospective |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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wow
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What a cluster it seems |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Anonymous User
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My opinion for rules:
Stock pump housing limited to 3000RPMS Stock block and crank (biggest replacement available from local dealer so a 466 could be run in a 1066 or 4430 ect ect) Stock turbo or biggest stock replacement available at dealer Stock heads and manifolds No cut gears No cut tires or anything bigger then 20.8-38 Stock body panels-no fiberglass parts I have a tractor right now i built for under $10K and the tractor is very competative everywhere it pulls. It is built with nothing more then the biggest stock replacements parts you can get off a dealer shelf. I built the tractor following these rules but the only thing not done to it yet is the 13MM head (it is a IH 1066), im running a REMAN 10mm model 100. It can be done and you can win without spending a ton of cash. It can be done and I proven it. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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my thoughts
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466 C.I.
20.8 TOP CUT P pump No intercoolers Wheelie bars, rops 3000 RPM RPM pick up Smaller than 3x3 10000 or 11000 lbs |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
my thoughts has good ideas but you got to allow stock bigger cubes |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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svm
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Anybody that has pulled with a speed limit knows if they can run and hold that speed they have a chance to win. It most likely comes down to tires and driver ability-luck. If it takes 500 hp to run 15-18 mph any tractor with that much should compete,If a guy brings a 900 hp hot farm at 15mph pace he don't have much if any advantage over the 500 hp guy.If you mix up the speed from one pull to another one guy will not be able to dominate no matter how much he spends. I would leave the rules wide open so almost anyone can pull. just have saftey equipment, rpm limit, weight limit, tire limit. that way guys that are already set up for different classes could show up at your pull and have fun. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Clark Harris lll
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We had no problem ever competing with a 15 mm pump and 466 cubes at 18 mph even are biggest disadvantage was lack of ambition to take the three point off to make 11,000 pounds, but when you still grind sheep creep with that dog gone thing twice a week its hard to dismember a good farm tractor like that. Any way you have it, I thought it made things even and we enjoyed pulling in Wisconsin even when we got DQed for speed. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Anonymous User
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me personly i hate a pace. pace is ok for farm class. still lets a "farm" tractor compete. any class bigger than that its stupid. limit the tractor to turbo inlet size. put a 6in long by w/e i.d you decide restrictor pipe ahead of charger. doesnt matter if you have 600ci, 4.1 charger and a p8100 hanging on the side. you will only pull so much air through that pipe. cost about $20 to make the pipe. it evens the playing field. it will choke down the big turbos and cubes an let the lesser hp tractors compete. just my 2 cents. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 07/20/2009 Posts: 56 |
I like the idea of the inlet pipe but what size of inlet would you run to keep tractors out of road gear? Is there anybody running this rule anywhere? Does anyone have any data or personal experience with this? |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Anonymous User
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we were talking about this the other day at the shop and we were playing around with pipes. a chunk of 2.5 o.d. exhaust pipe measures roughly 2.43 on the inside. i think that would be a good thing to use. a guy could write the rule as 2.5 o.d maximum diameter with no less than 6in long pipe. and the pipe cant be more than 12inches from the face of the wheel of the turbo. that way a guy had 6 inches to play with to make an adapter to fit over the intake housing. i believe minnesota state uses or used a similar rule on there profarm class... |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Anonymous User
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I think the pipe is a good idea but I think it should be mounted directly to the turbo by one silicone coupler less room to manipulate things. 2.5od pipe is a good idea but it does vary from on manufacturer to another some. I also don’t think it would have to be 6” long maybe 3" because some tractors may have fitment issues when it comes to getting an air shutoff to fit after adding that much length to the turbo. I think this would be a great class with lots of interest. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 07/20/2009 Posts: 56 |
Ok dumb math question...will a 3 inch x 2.5 id pipe allow more air into the turbo than a 6inch 2.5 id pipe |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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A restrictor tube works very well to level the class . Done this in N Ia. we used DOM 3in OD 2.5 ID works well because standard OD to connect to. 3 in long within 3 in of face of the wheel . All inlet air must flow through this restriction .No Internal modifications allowed PERIOD. Pipes will be inspected regularly. NTPA has done this only difference it was 3 ID. Have a machine shop get the pipe and cut to length should only cost 10 to 15 dollars apiece DONT let everyone make there own. Can buy 4 to 3 or even 5 to 3 silicon reducers on internet for 20 dollars |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 07/14/2011 Posts: 59 |
Hi, To answer "cookies" question: As with many things in life, "it depends". As a general rule, yes, a shorter pipe of the same diameter will offer less restriction. |
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Re: new 466 class southern wisconsin ideas?
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Registered: 04/07/2008 Posts: 781 |
Is meeting for organaztion only or rules for SW wisc in general |
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