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Hi, What if... instead of banning V8's, they were to ban alcohol? With today's technology, could a gasoline fueled engine run with a diesel? With the high tech, high octane racing gas that is available, and computerized/electronic ignitions, water injection, etc., could a gas engine be made to run competitively? Just wondering... After all, farm tractors were made to run on everything from kerosene, to distillate, to LP, gasoline, and diesel, but I don't remember any being powered with alcohol. 
And no, I'm not just trying to stir the pot. I'm just wondering if anyone in recent years has done any research/testing with gasoline and if it is still a dead end. Later ....... |
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If you don't have 10 minutes to read, don't start, I wrote an encyclopedia.
I've been sitting on the sidelines watching these threads since last weekend (Enderle weekend) and have fought with what I could say, a lot of type....type....type.....%*&*%%&!!....delete....delete....delete going on the keyboard when I've had a chance to look at the LSS V8 threads. I have honestly tried to look at this from all of the points of view here, and the one thought I have that rises above the rest is the lack of physical, personal interaction that could have taken place at the meetings following the Enderle. Make no mistake, if I have a dog in the fight and if I've spent 1000 or 100,000 on him, I'm gonna be there to watch him bleed. At a minimum have someone there to represent me in an effective manner. I understand the rationale for keeping a V8 out of LSS. 505 CID is 505 CID, but 8 intake and exhaust ports are better than 6. More air, more fuel, more power. The argument is that no one's gotten a V8 to hold together, especially a V8 out of 2WD tractor. My thought is that many of us that look at this board would have never thought we'd never see anything other than an IH or Deere win in DSS, let alone 5 GN titles. That simply goes to show that rather than looking at a block as a weakness there is opportunity to show creativity in making it last. If a 426 can live in DSS, a de-cubed 3208 or 640 Perkins can definitely be made to run. Only separating that from theory and reality is time, opportunity, and captial--financial and intellectual. If it can be imagined, it can most likely be done. So here we are, with a rule that has been passed, with no grey area, a truly black and white rule, before...and I repeat that...before a V8 LSS follows a complete National schedule. If you look at the history of motorsports that's really a pretty good deal. In the late eighties Buddy Ingersoll was running a turbo Buick, competing in NHRA's Comp Eliminator. He then got the opportunity to run in the IHRA Pro Stock with the 700+ CID engines of the time, beating away at it with a stock block and at one point running twins with stock intercoolers. by the time he had gotten to the Bristol race he had worked out a lot of the bugs in the setup and got into the finals vs. Bob Glidden. While a clutch problem was likely the reason he didn't win it became apparent to the mountain motor guys, (the name Rickie Smith keeps coming up though he never publicly acknowledged he led the charge) that the 231 with chargers was about to put a hurtin' on them, so to speak. So, without ever winning an event, the IHRA banned Ingersoll and sent him back into the NHRA ranks. While that move was one of the more political and financially based decisions made ever in motorsports (Ford was putting money into IHRA and running exotic stuff; getting beat by a Buick with a block off the shelf would not have looked good) it makes what's happened in the NTPA far less offensive. Can you imagine the backlash if someone got the call from the NTPA, paraphrasing here, "thanks for playing for the first half of the year, we're banning you now. have a nice day." Talk about being as welcomed as a turd in the punchbowl... In its' own warped and twisted way, this move will prove to be a good one down the road. The pullers who play at the top of the class are having to spend buckets full of cash to run like they do. A well-financed and executed V8 program would send several pullers down PPL tracks and to the NTPA state events of their choice. The pullers who are really in the crosshairs, the ones who have spent countless hours running a breakneck and convoluted schedule on the GN circuit don't need to have one more reason to stop investing countless hours and miles. Im pretty sure that theres some tractors from up north that drew that line in the sand because of that already. This keeps the scant number of guys that are running GN on the GN schedule. I don't think anyone who makes a criticism should ever leave a comment without offering a solution. My thought is this: if there are really and truly 10 of these tractors in process or running (I count around 6 existing, could be more) get them built. Run OSS, the whole schedule. Show up early to events, offer to display your vehicle beforehand at local businesses, hand out fan cards, kiss youngun's and grandmammas if you have to. If the schedule doesn't wear you out, submit an item of business to have your own class to voted on the meeting. Get it discussed, be proactive rather than reactive. None of this is easy in a financial, mechanical, physical, or mental manner. Im violating my own rule to not spend other peoples money but I have to illustrate a solution. There is no one puller or class that you cannot replace, but you can sure make it hard to pick up your slack in this scenario. And to "wicked": see the attached photos. Please don't insult guys with M's and Super M's, they're playing a man's game in antique pulling! That's an offset bore on top and a billet crank on the bottom side, Division 3 engine, well north of 350 cubes--20 year old or older tech, it ain't! I do agree with you on the everybody wins/gets a ribbon/sings koom-by-yah, no place for that! Since there a huge number of I's typed here, this isn't gospel. It's borne from windshield time and as valuable as an empty beer can, probably less. Congratulations for making it to the end of this mess. Bryan Lively - 
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Although I am not in agreement with banning progression, after reading so many posts on this topic, I have two things I want to mention.
1. Congratulations to the NTPA for having at least one rule the same as PPL. Maybe we need more. PPL's rule book change under #2B for 2012 is that "V-8 engine are not permitted." Maybe we can get more of these rules to coincide between both organizations to help grow the sport and arguably one of the most exciting classes in all of tractor pulling. Like I said, I am not a fan of banning to get there though. Intelligence, trial/error, effort, blood, sweat, and tears is what has developed all of man kind and technology to where we are today. 2. A person almost had to know this was coming if one "block" began winning; although we understand there is no dominance and there never has been. But NTPA can kick themselves in the rear for having to "protect" because of their oh so popular "any block" rule they put in place. If they would have kept the block as stock or recognized replacement, this discussion would not be going on right now. I have no dog in the fight, just a fan who really appreciates what the pullers do for us as fans. I tend to be one that does not want to see the tractor classes become "cookie cutters" like many other forms of motorsports. And yes, I reserve the right to my humble opinion and be completely incorrect in the information I have provided above, being completely accepting of any criticism directed my way. 
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