bosch injection pump questions January 19, 2013 03:27PM
Last year we put a stock dt-360 truck motor into our 560 to pull in the 10mph and 12mph farm repower classes.
We have not been able to get much performance out of the bosch pump. This is the pump that came on the truck and has 9.5mm plungers if I am reading the tag correctly

I looks very similar to the pump on our 4440 jd which is also a 9.5mm. The deere seems to put out a lot more fuel than the IHC. Are these two injection pumps similar in performance abilities or am I missing something?
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 19, 2013 03:42PM
The john deere pump will have an RSV governor and more than likely the 360 truck motor pump has an RQV governor on it. It's also possible the pump on the truck motor has retard notches in the plunger and the John Deere pump probably does not. Just a guess on the last part though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2013 03:17AM by FordPuller9000.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 19, 2013 03:54PM
The govenor is different on the pumps. Do I need to look for a differnt "A"pump with an ag govenor?
I have this pump turned to the top. Is that retarding the pump and reducing fuel?
I'm new to pulling and any help would be appreciated!!!
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 19, 2013 04:14PM
If you rotate the top of the pump towards the block then that advanced the timing. The better A pump would be one from a case with 10mm plungers. I believe one from a 1370 would be the better option, if you were going to replace your pump with another stock replacement pump.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2013 04:15PM by FordPuller9000.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 19, 2013 04:31PM
The pump on the Deere and the one on the international are on opposite sides of the motor. Wouldn't this make their rotation different?
Which side of the motor is the case pump on ?

Thanks for your help.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 19, 2013 04:50PM
The John Deere pump will work on the IH but the access plate and linkage will all be towards the block. The Case pump will have the linkage and everything on the correct side but the case pump rotates the opposite direction of the IH pump , so you have to swap a few injector lines around. Swap 4 and 5 and 3 and 2 .
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 19, 2013 05:04PM
And just to clarify my previous statement, the pump drive gear rotates the opposite direction on the case motor than on the IH or Deere motor. So the cam firing order is different from front to back on the case pump than it is on the IH or Deere pump.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2013 05:05PM by FordPuller9000.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 19, 2013 05:39PM
Thanks for all the help! I will try to find one of those case pumps and get this tractor up to speed.

I have no idea what size the injectors are in this motor but I'm sure that I will have to address that and line size as well when changing pumps.

Thanks.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 20, 2013 03:53AM
Your stock injector nozzle is probably a 4 hole , 4x.011 or .012 if nothing has been changed around. It's an M type nozzle with a 152 degree spray angle more than likely, so you can look for stock replacement ones in a 5 hole nozzle or a bigger 4 hole, they aren't too bad to find, If you get much bigger than .014 it gets harder to find them in a stock replacement though. The stock nozzle for that engine is probably a NBM 770053 or really close to it. I am just speculating though, because I do not have one of those engines to pull an injector out of and look at.
You can look at nozzles with different spray angles depending on your timing, but I really don't want to get into that, I am sure it would start more arguments than I want to deal with. The big thing about this is , you don't want to just be spraying the cylinder walls down , you want to try and keep as much of the spray pattern in the bowl of the piston as you can.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2013 03:56AM by FordPuller9000.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions February 28, 2020 04:50AM
IS MY 470006003 BOSCH FUEL INJECTION PUMP PRE SET FROM FACTORY TO BE INSTALLED WITH 3056 CAT ENGINE SET AT TOP DEAD ON #1
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 20, 2013 01:03AM
I would put an effort in your injectors before messing with the pumps. The RQV gov on the 360 pump will not govern as tight as the "ag" RSV governor like a 30/40 series Deere or Case. The 360 pump and most Deere "A" pumps do use 9.5MM plunger & Barrels, and most all have retard notches. I have converted some ih pumps over to ag governor and put in 10mm non retard plungers in the build, but most important, we built matching injectors. good luck with the project.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 20, 2013 05:38AM
Computer is slow this morning.

We have an old motor in the shop out of a 1660 combine. I think it is a 436 or 466.

I put this turbo on the dt-360 because it had a bigger air inlet. Its still a t04, just looked a little bigger.

Is there a chance that the injectors out of the combine engine would work better? I don't know the size, spray pattern or how many holes.

am heading to the shop and pull one out to get the part #.

This old motor also has a am-bac 100 that was rebuilt not long ago. Maybe that would be an option as well. I don't know what all is involved in changing to a rotory pump. I think that they must turn 2x as fast if I remember right and can't put out as much fuel in stock form.

Correct me if Im wrong.

Thanks
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 20, 2013 05:57AM
If you can get me a part number off the nozzle I can tell you how many holes and what size are in those injectors. The rotary pump turned the same speed as the inline pump, which is half the rate of the crank. The reason an inline will deliver more fuel is because it has 6 plungers that deliver fuel . On a rotary there is only one plunger pushing fuel for every cylinder so it refills and pressurizes fuel 6 times as often as each of the plungers in the inline pump.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2013 05:59AM by FordPuller9000.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 21, 2013 09:12AM
Quote
FordPuller9000
If you can get me a part number off the nozzle I can tell you how many holes and what size are in those injectors. The rotary pump turned the same speed as the inline pump, which is half the rate of the crank. The reason an inline will deliver more fuel is because it has 6 plungers that deliver fuel . On a rotary there is only one plunger pushing fuel for every cylinder so it refills and pressurizes fuel 6 times as often as each of the plungers in the inline pump.
The model 100 pump runs at engine crankshaft speed. Don't mess with putting one back on if you already have an A pump on it. A stock model 100 is no more pump than your stock A pumps you're tinkering with.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 21, 2013 10:55AM
The actual fuel delivery portion of the pump turns at half crank shaft speed though, (rotor/distributor), if not it would be injecting fuel on the compression and exhaust stroke. Maybe I am wrong, but that would just make no sense. That would be similar to wasted spark, but wasted fuel.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 21, 2013 01:21PM
Ford puller 9000

Is there a way to get in touch with you? I have an injector out.

email or phone ? Thanks.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 21, 2013 02:35PM
I emailed you.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions January 21, 2013 12:24AM
I have a A pump off a deere 466 combine motor that has been gone through. It has a "AG" governer on it. I will sell it for $600. If interested call six one six eight nine five six eight 0 four.
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Re: bosch injection pump questions February 29, 2020 07:27AM
The turbo off of the combine engine will absolutely make it feel like it has no power as you can not turn the engine hard enough in speed limit to keep the charger going very well at all with the bigger exhaust housing. Also, if you tried to turn the fuel up "all the way" with the pump there's a good chance you hurt yourself as well as it has a good chance of having retard plungers/barrels. As far as your injectors if they are factory they should be 4x12's around 150°. They will easily get you over 300hp.

It's easy to spend other people's money but if rules allowed I'd put a p3000 pump with ag (rsv) governor on it and I'd encourage a different turbo with a tighter exhaust housing. Not sure what manifold you are running, but an hx35 for a 5.9 Cummins from China is very cheap to purchase and you can always just plug off the waste gate for the exhaust housing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/2020 07:29AM by binderboy.
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