Hemi Heads in LSS February 28, 2009 05:02PM
Just wondering why tractors are allowed in the regional lss class at Cloverdale that have hemi heads on them. The rules do say no hemi heads allowed.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS February 28, 2009 05:08PM
does esdon lehn with red line fever have one of them hemi heads on a illegal block too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 02:33AM
No I am not refering to an IH at all. The two entries are the other green color. They happen to have hemi heads and the regional lss rules say that they are not allowed.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 02:42AM
are you sure about that? dont know if i remember seing that on the rules for gordyville but i could be wrong. remember this is klints pull not any organization so the rules could be a little diffrent
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 12:40PM
I don't think I would worry to much about the other green!
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((ooh)) what a threat March 02, 2009 12:09PM
this is for you jd fan
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 05:52AM
THE RULES SAY NO HEMI HEADS AND NO OVER HEAD CAMS. THEY MADE THIS CLASS CUZ SOME OF THE LLSS BOYS DIDNT WANT JOHN HULL AND EV CARROLL IN THERE LLSS. SO WHY ARE THEY IN THIS CLASS THAT IS THE HEMI BOYS.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 07:07AM
your are correct just looked and it does say no hemi heads. but remember it is klints pull and he can do as he wants. maybe he called all the others in the class and they said it was ok after all they are stock heads
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 08:48AM
You are correct Klint can do whatever he wants with this pull. The problem is that this issue goes much further than just this pull. The question is should a stock head be allowed even if the configuration is against the rules. Keep in mind the same argument could then be made for more than two valves per cylinder, camshaft location, number of camshafts and whatever new technology that may come our way in the future. The hemi head rule is NOT new to lss pulling at any level that I know of. Each association or event can decide to enforce this rule or not based on what they feel is in their best interest. This topic has had allot of finger pointing in the last two years and I wanted to clear the air that it is not an exclusive or new rule for lss.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 09:54AM
I'm sure Hull and Carrol aren't worried about our stock hemi heads.And why should they be able to run in the limited class?We lost numbers because there was light supers there last year.Why can't the prostocks run with the limited pros?Actually we begged and pleaded Klint.Wouldn't let us run in the region class so we paid him off! If you don't want us to jump in there we won't.It's not like were going to win.It will be an honor to make the top 5 and would be lucky at that.Klint asked us to sign up so we had two hooks down there since ORV won't let us run in there.I can't believe some of you guys are so scared of a 410 with a non slotted cover!

By the way how do you know our heads are factory?Didn't see any protest.Or are you looking in our shop windows again?
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 09:56AM
That wasn't for you twister it was for 686 and the guy.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 10:49AM
Pretty sure OEM Hemi heads are legal, cause any other OEM head is legal, so how can you outlaw one tractor?
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 11:15AM
It's an ISP rule. I mean "Charlie rule" He tried to get that in before this ISP class ever came about.They put that in when the class was brought in.In Gordyville Klint was told not to allow us to pull down there.Doesn't look like he had any support from many of them for Cloverdale so he asked us to run.
Let me ask you guys that have a problem with us.Do you really want us to make a non hemi style head?Or will that be a aftermarket head.As far as I'm concerned it's not the aluminum it's the canted valves that you complin about.Or is it just because it's a Deutz and you hate to get beat by crappy green color?
It's their class not ours.They can do what they want.The ones that that want that rule in there are the ones that look like idiots.We have a prototype head on the shelf if you want us to make some.Hope it can be crossflow.Shoot now I supose we can't do that because they never came that way from the factory.I'm confused.We can get 12 done at one time and cheapin it up that way Anderson has them to.Just tell us what we need to do to fit in your rules and we just might do it.Seriously tell us.
Hey John you got that block glued back together?
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 02:14PM
As of right now the tractor is apart, Not sure as if we will get it back together to run down there, but we will hopefully get the mini rod done, so we will be there either way with something
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 11:04AM
I am pulling in this class at Cloverdale and I could care less about them running their oem head. In fact I welcome them into the class. This is getting blown out of proportion when aftermarket heads, 2 turbos and 505 cubes are allowed. Now if they would just let us hook in Badger State with our little alcohol burners.Smiling

Greg
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 02:15PM
This is not an ISP or Charlie rule. Look in an ITPA rule book from any of the last ten years, NO HEMI heads. This rule does not give any exceptions. If the idea that any production head should be allowed, what if I want to build a Koboda or Cummins 24 valve engine. I am sure no one would like that idea. Further more we are not far from production overhead cam ag engines, anyone have a prolblem with that. It is not a matter of what the rule is it is just where the line should be drawn. The line was drawn at hemi heads a long time ago by most all associations. I stress this is not a new idea created in the last two years based on a personal vendetta.
Greg, it would be a cold day somewhere it is usually hot before an alcohol tractor would be allowed to compete with Badger on a regular basis. You should also ask them about de-cubing in the limited pro class. ha ha
Mark, you must have a way nicer shop than we do if you have windows for people to look in. Do you have stadium seating for future pullers to watch as you operate on the giant? By the way I think it would be great if someone would build a parallel valve head for a Duetz to run lss down here. Only thing is that would probably be frowned upon by Badger and the tractor would be exclusive lss. No more class jumping. Also no more complaining from either side. I like the sound of that.
Also I am scared of anything with Little, Green or Giant anywhere in the name. I am only one of those 505 twin charger alcohol tractors and I am very easily intimidated.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 02:35PM
I Have yet to see a rule book rom ISP or ITPA. Most organizations say OEM Head is legal, So i dont see where there is a problem.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 03:10PM
Can we barrow your turbo if you don't go?LOL!You are right the rule book does say oem head but right after that it says no hemi head.Hmm...geuss it depends on which one you go by.See you down there!
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 08:58AM
Mark, how ironic you mentioned my wheel. We are attempting to get a wider traction line by way of the bent rim. We are not going to fix it, we just need to make the other side match. In the case of our big charger, they might need it for suction on the smoke tube in Cloverdale. Any way we might put a reducer in it and try it in the limited class.
It should work well on our 24 valve overhead cam 6.6 liter kaboda that we are going to build. Since everyone seems to think if it is oem it should be allowed this should not be a problem.
As for Cloverdale the rule should not read as it does if hemi's are to be allowed. The Whatssmoking shows are a hodgepodge of groups and rules and that is what makes them great. We had a great time in Gordyville pulling against people from all sorts of classes. The only thing I was concerned about was this affecting our class throughout the summer. It has been a hot topic and not everyone in our class agrees. We have a great bunch of competitors and a great class that is getting larger every year. If someone likes this class well enough, then they should build for it. The question has been asked, what do we need to do to run with us, that's simple, meet the rules. Put those prototype heads on that are parallel valved and lets go pullin. The thing is you guys also have a great class of tractors up north and plenty of hooks. I doubt that anyone would forgo light limited Badger to run light super ISP. If they wanted to just do what I earlier said, build those heads.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 03:06PM
Why did I know you would be the one to respond.You said most organizations had that as a rule.What org.do you mean?Deutz has pulled in NTPA back in the early 80's.I do believe ITPA is the only one I know of. Actualy decubing and alcohol like ORV has been thrown around in discussion quite a bit by the light class in Badger.So never say never.We just havn't changed anything because it is so competitive and there are good numbers already.Badger can't stand to have 30 plus in a class.If you get too many it gets boring.
I do agree don't change your rules for one tractor.Do whats best for your assoc.We did one time in West Central to allow two chargers under 315 for one tractor and he never did pull with us after we put it in.Remember Mr. Supertiquer?Yeah well atleast that was one that worked out for the best.I don't have a vendetta against anyone except one and you know that.I got sick of everything we had on our tractor Charlie tried to get rid of it.No cooler,oem head.Heck the one time he wanted to not allow computers and pullers tires.He's an idiot.Thats my opinion!
Now get off of here and fix your wobbily rim!!!!
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 01, 2009 11:49PM
WHY DOES CHARLIE NEED TO GET BROUGHT INTO THIS! HE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A TRACTOR NOW. DOES THIS MEAN YOU'LL LET ALCHY'S IN THIS YEAR AND MAYBE YOU'LL LET US PULL TOO. BSP SEEMS TO BE THE THE TOP PULLING SERIES NOW SO LETS PULL AND HAVE FUN!!!
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 02:02AM
First of all I know he doesn't have a tractor now.I am geussing you are the ones that own it now.As Jason knows there has been stuff in the past leading up to this.I was told he was at the class meeting to help set up the rules for ISP and he made sure that stayed in there.Ask all the old light guys.Every year it was something to try to get rid of on the Deutz.And it was brought up by him.The frienship kept going downhill and Belevidere was the last straw.We get there as the class was lining up because Gordy Kasper told us the wrong time amd we unloaded pulled and won.Charlie was back at the trailor where we had parked right next to him,threw his helmut on the ground and then tried to get us DQ,ed.Plus the funny thing was that this was an open class.There were no rules.Every time he wanted to change a rule it got voted down.Then he thought that we controlled the light class.NO!We were just ones to speak up. Iv'e said before it's there class!They can do what they want but all I want to know is how to change it in case we want to pull in there sometime.Build heads?O.K. Is it open just so the valves are not canted?
The rules have stayed the same in Badger for 2009.All I said was it has been brought up in discussion.The ducubing thing in the past was put in there a long time ago to keep big chassis tractors out with the big heads.The people against the decubing in the past including us now realize it didn't stop it.Technology makes it hard to keep rules in place forever. As far as you whats stopping you from running?Would love to see a red one in there since Runkle has takin some time off.
Sorry for rambling but not everyone knows what has takin place between us.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 08:33AM
We would like to make some pulls with bsp. I'm planning on coming to the meeting on sat. Maybe we can come to agreement on way to make it work for everyone. We all pull together in the winter sessions why not in the summer too. And maybe you'll see different tractors there also not just the same show every week.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 09:21AM
What do you run for setup now?
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 09:32AM
As in what? cubes charger things like that or what pistons are in the engine or what type of tires? If told you that we wouldn't have any secrets. I thought that what pulling was all about secrets.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 09:45AM
Ih686 you know you are 640ci with a 4.1 charger. But you don't have to tell.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 09:48AM
Hey now dont say anything. Now we dont have any secrets. Thanks a bunch. Besides its not 640 its 505 on triple chargers. And nitro with the fuel ooopppss to much info!!!
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 10:08AM
You forgot cam grind!If you want to run Badger thats why I asked what you run.When Charlie owned it it was a light limited that fit Badger/ISP rules.Of course I meant cubes,turbo and tires.Bottom line do you fit Badger rules now?
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 10:18AM
Not quite. Tires are 30.5.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 12:28AM
hey greg maybe you should bring the two 560s to the midwest and run them here all summer. I know you could pull with ISP and would fit right in, and im sure someone would have a place to store them for you during the week if you wanted to leave them here
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 03:50AM
Since I started pulling 02 with BSTP and ISP ,everyone has complained about Mark and Larrys tractor. They do there homework on how to pull a tractor. I have learned many things by watching them. And am proud to call them my friends.
As for rules, people need to talk and see whats best for the class,instead of whats best for my tractor.
By the way I will be back on the track in 09.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 08:08AM
I'M NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT ANYONE TRACTOR. WE ARE ALL FOR MAKING CLASSES FOR EVERYONE TO COMPETE TOGETHER LIKE GORDYVILLE AND CLOVERDALE. THATS WHAT MAKES IT FUN.
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Re: Finally a red one (David) March 02, 2009 09:53AM
David , I am glas you are returning it was hard to watch a whole season without a red one. Did you make any changes ?
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Re: Finally a red one (David) March 02, 2009 11:58AM
Since it wasn't ran for a year, I need to make sure that everything is working. I need to put a new clutch in. After that we will see, I am glad my issues are over, and am looking forward to pulling again. It was really hard to sit out and watch last year.
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Re: Hemi Heads in LSS March 02, 2009 04:32AM
Make a summer of it and run IPA also. We couldn't help but notice your tractors at G-ville! We would be glad to have you as well.

Carl Downs
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