12:08:53pm, Wednesday, May 15, 2024
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How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Could someone explain how tractor pulling changed to its current sleds with tractors at speeds near 30 mph, aluminum wheels, and no wheel weights. I farm and started going to pulls in 1960 to 1985. In the 1960s, men stepped onto a flat weighted sled. In the 1970s to 1985, weight transfer sleds were used. I went to NTPA pulls seeing greats like the Banter Brothers, Dave Stangle, and Marshall Meyer. Tractors had steel wheels with many using wheel weights pulling in 9,000 and 12,000 pound classes. I think speeds were under 20 mph.
I have been going to a lot of Badger and NTPA pulls since 2015. Now the sleds let the tractors start fast. The tractors now want light weight on the rear wheels working for speed and momentum. Today's tractors are amazing, and I enjoy the pulls. I would like to know the reasons of how and when this transition happened. Thanks for any infor. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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day later
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Love the high speeds, don't miss the heavy "tug" sleds.
Go to an antique pull if you want 5 mph! |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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james
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there is a cost to every thing in Life, some fast is ok, some slower is just fine, but the new high speed has taken it's toll on many pocket books. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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james
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Speed and horsepower are plenty of fun, but we are well on the way to catastrophic accidents with not much between fans, spectators, officials and bleachers, high speed, high internal pressures will cause major misshapes. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,349 |
When NTPA did away with the pace tractor, that was the catalyst that began the revolution. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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ih1066 puller
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The first and probably the biggest reason that the speed has increased over the years is the innovation in tires. As people began to cut the tires, the sled people saw that they were having a harder time getting the old sleds started but in the odd chance that they did get hooked up, they did the best and put on a good show. So the people who are making the sleds began to gradually take weight out at the beginning and make the sled ¨hit harder¨ at about 250-260. Another reason that the sleds developed the way that they did is because of the weight of the tractors. As the horsepower was increasing quickly it became harder to keep the tractors running if they were weighing 12k pounds because they were tying the tractors to the ground (which is very hard on rotating assembly parts). I would argue that it is easier on the tractors if you are spinning the tires instead of griping the whole time so this calls for a lesser weight tractor. Also, I think that a lesser weight class like the light supers of the 80s and even the light supers and LLSS now make for a great show because it is more of a driving game and a local or small guy might get lucky and beat a grand-national puller. Just my 0.02 on why things have progressed as they have and hopefully in the future these trends will continue. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Let's look at track & field for our answer:
Name a top miler in history. Anyone? Anyone? Heck, name ANY miler? You probably can't... I sure can't. I actually looked up the best distance runners of all time and I didn't know a single name on the list. Not one! Now name a top sprinter in history. Usain Bolt come to mind? Carl Lewis, Justin Gatlin, and Jesse Owens all quickly came to my mind. When I looked at some lists of sprinters I recognized plenty of other names on the lists, sure some of them were known more for cheating like Ben Johnson and Marion Jones but I still knew their names. Raw speed is extremely impressive to watch. In pulling, just like track & field, speed is perceived as horsepower. Look at how jacked the sprinters in track & field are. All muscle, all horsepower! When people go to watch most motorsports they want to watch muscle. When people come to pulls they want to watch muscle trucks and muscle tractors fight it out. In the golden age of muscle cars how many cars put the torque numbers on the air cleaner vs how many put the HP number? I know of zero muscle cars that listed torque on the air cleaner! Speed and HP is what fans can perceive clearly as muscle. Horsepower (or at least the perception of) is what puts butts in seats in most motorsports. Since fans perceive speed as power it's easy in our sport to change that perception... increase speed by changing how the sled is setup. It's easy to give fans the perception of more power by giving competitors more speed. It's a very simple equation. Torque on the other hand is much more difficult for a fan to perceive. Can a fan feel how heavy a sled is? No, sadly it doesn't translate well. A locomotive makes tons of torque but not many people are lining the train tracks to see a giant 16 cylinder GE locomotive pull a long line of cars from a standstill. It's just not exciting. Sure some people still love a slow/heavy sled, and there's still a place for that in some classes in this motorsport but those events/classes generally don't have the fan popularity. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
Prefontaine...
I cheated though. I ran the mile, 2 mile, and 4x400 relay and XC in high school. CP |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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IH
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The first and probably the biggest reason that the speed has increased over the years is the innovation in tires. As people began to cut the tires, the sled people saw that they were having a harder time getting the old sleds started but in the odd chance that they did get hooked up, they did the best and put on a good show. So the people who are making the sleds began to gradually take weight out at the beginning and make the sled ¨hit harder¨ at about 250-260. Another reason that the sleds developed the way that they did is because of the weight of the tractors. As the horsepower was increasing quickly it became harder to keep the tractors running if they were weighing 12k pounds because they were tying the tractors to the ground (which is very hard on rotating assembly parts). I would argue that it is easier on the tractors if you are spinning the tires instead of griping the whole time so this calls for a lesser weight tractor. Also, I think that a lesser weight class like the light supers of the 80s and even the light supers and LLSS now make for a great show because it is more of a driving game and a local or small guy might get lucky and beat a grand-national puller. Just my 0.02 on why things have progressed as they have and hopefully in the future these trends will continue. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
I'd think pulling could generate some well needed interest from non weekly pulling fans if we could use a time factor and speed factor boards..ex,a 320 ft track,have a real time speed and time board,that is visible in the sun,have the speed recorded from 100 ft to 300 ft,and the time also.use some formula to give a score.highest score wins..to hell with the distance measurements |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Put a load cell in the hook chain and display that reading too. Then fans could see the actual pounds of force being exerted by the tractor. That way they could make a comparison between classes and get a better appreciation for how big those forces really are. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 08/27/2019 Posts: 212 |
In regard to Patches comment....(since "pulling" really isn't the object anymore in superstock , prostock and the like), the idea of timing the run from 100' to 300' , (or what ever the distance is, depending on the facility having enough run off area), where every vehicle runs the full distance and the fastest time down the track wins, sounds interesting !
If speed is what it takes to put spectators in the seats, it might be worth considering ??? |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 06/10/2018 Posts: 149 |
I’m not necessarily “in-favor” of the time elapsed time or Racing element being added to pulling. Just believe it’s not what pulling is about...Now I say that to say this...
Anytime I explain what tractor pulling is to someone who doesn’t know (and trust me it’s a lot...) The number one question I get asked BY FAR is...”So is it whoever pulls it down the track the fastest?” When people think motor sports, they think racing. So maybe it is worth looking into... |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
Anytime I've been in the stands since 1972 the faster speed ALWAYS generated the most fan interest..remember the fans support is what turns the profit.
Why dont one of you gamers do the speed and time idea on a video pulling game and see what happens I'd think in a class of 70 sf,ps,or 2wd,4wd at bg the drag race idea would be great (or any 2 track facility),lane choice for the finals and rounds.just like the drags |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 90 |
Like this?
Put up or shut up tractor battle at GALOT Track was crap but kind of neat to see... |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Tomah winner
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You have to remember though, that wouldn't be fair if one had a crap track and one had the best track ever. It should stay the way it is so the classes can be fair. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,523 |
Nope,we've talked on here for years about the sport in general is losing interest with young people, everything a person does is relative to time in sports.its distance over time..want youth to get involved ?,gotta give them something to be interested in |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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tomah winner.
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Nope, fans are still interested. Maybe numbers have gone down a slight bit, but they are still there overall. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
And the next thing pulling needs is a "technical merit" score also. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2020 04:08PM by Supertiquer. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
Oh boy. I have enough trouble keeping distances right because I'm sorta dumb. Now I have to do distance, E/T, speed, then apply a Balance Of Performance correction factor to it? Oy. I do calculus, pullers argue I did it wrong, fans are making WTF faces... 
CP |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 633 |
I am old enough have witnessed the progression from the step on sleds (in grade school I was one of those people that stepped on a garden tractor sled) to the modern day high speed sleds both as a puller and as a fan/spectator.
As a fan/spectator to me there is no comparison. Don't get we wrong, back in the mid 70s I thought pulling was awesome but when I watch old videos now they look so slow. Compared to today they seem boring,dusty and slow. As a puller when I started we were pulling slower sleds going 280' to 300' now we pull fast sleds (27 to 35 mph) 300' to 340'. From the seat and as a fan/spectator the later for me is much more exciting and fun. Another thing to consider particularly in the Heavy Unlimited Mods is that if they try to stop these tractors in 300' the sled has to be so heavy that they can't get any speed at all. It's not a good show when your premier class is slower than say the GN Mod class because the sled is so heavy off the starting line. S'no Farmer |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,349 |
Which is why I suggested months ago when NTPA tweaked their full pull rule to make everything maybe 330 and allow the unlimiteds to run to 350, with the explanation to the audience that these are such powerful beasts, the extra distance is needed to get them stopped and still put on a good show. It adds a marketing bullet point for the class. Now, that means any facility that would sanction the class must be able to accommodate a 350' track, but I believe most places can.... even if Bowling Green would have to run them on the grandstand track only. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2020 01:37AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Puller 8
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What about Louisville and any other indoor track? Cloverdale is 320 and 350 would put you through the sand pile and near a wall! |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,349 |
Do unlimited mods run at Louisville or any other indoor track? Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2020 05:21AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Puller 8
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I believe Louisville runs a 72 or 75 multi engine mod class. Don't know what differentiates unlimited from multi engine mods? |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 633 |
The NFMS actually scaled back their mod class from the PPL rules to the NTPA rules because they felt they were getting out of hand and too powerful for the indoor track. To answer someone elses question, no one runs Unlimited Mods indoors.
S'NO FARMER |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Wouldn't need all that speed if you weren't trying to go 400'. There's also absolutely no reason the unlimiteds need anywhere near the horsepower they are running these days. Pulling has had alot of near misses lately from a safety standpoint. Louisville alone has had 3 near misses recently. I have to think at least some of that is related to the increase in speed. |
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Re: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
I would like to give some points of view:
The tractors have gotten lighter, WAY more powerful and the tires have gotten a lot better, too. I think we never ran such a fast gear ratio again as we did in the last season on the old (hand) single cut Firestones meanwhile today making a lot more horsepower and running 4000 lbs lighter than back then. So with more "grip in the back" we need a lot more weight on the front of the tractor. Hence wheel weights and steel rims are simply "the weight at the wrong spot".
As you correctly stated - things back then happened with 9000 and 12,000 pounds. With today's (available to pullers) technology you could probably build an 18,000 hp machine for the 9000 lbs. There wouldn't be too many who want to sacrifice the time and money it takes to operate such a vehicle though and there probably wouldn't be too much competition.
One thing that many people on the sidelines don't realize, is how much more braking force the "new sleds" have. I remember a few years back, when we had a sled failure and had to finish a Pull Off with basically "the retired back up sled from 10 years ago". That thing, when it got retired could stop our 4 Allison tractor in the 12,000 lbs class. That day, 10 years later in that 7700 Pull Off - it didn't stand a chance. Once you got it moving, it looked like a drag race. It was just like nothing was happening everybody basically sailed through the end. They then added some chains under then pan - but that then caused, that nobody went further than 100 ft. Couldn't get it going. And that basically describes, what has happened in sled development. While the tractors have become stronger the sleds (because of road transportation) couldn't really get heavier and had to come up with different tricks. To make sleds more effective, there was a lot of R/D put into the sled pans, which cause a lot more friction and are longer than the old-style ones. But this also leads to the problem, to get the pan "off the line" it has to be very light (even coming off the ground when the tractor starts going), which is done by counterbalancing it with the weight box at the starting line. Depending on the weight class, the box might start in a different position (and some sleds even move their axles to accomplish this). And that makes them get pretty fast in the first 100 or so ft. The other thing is what they call the push-down, which basically lifts the rear of the sled and makes sure all of the available weight rests on the sled pan. That kinda feels like driving into a wall on a lower hp tractor but is needed to really stop the high hp guys. The actual weight box these days has not as much influence as it used to have. Its position, determinating the other functions on the sled (when to lighten the pan, when to drop the pan, when to tilt the sled, when to engage push down) has a lot of influence though. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2020 03:53AM by Sascha. |
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Re: Thanks: How pulling got to these high speeds?
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Thanks to everyone for replying to my post. There are many good replies that has explained the transition. |
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