Glycol vs ice

	Glycol vs ice February 25, 2021 02:30AM
Question???!	Hi, I’ve seen couple post here about using glycol instead of ice/water. Wondering how much glycol is needed to replace around 80 pounds of ice and if people use 100% glycol or a mix of water/glycol? Does glycol is legal in most association? Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 26, 2021 04:29AM
Question???!	Anyone? Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 26, 2021 07:05AM
No ice	We used to use a mix of water and ice, now we run pure glycol and nothing else. If you use an industrial freezer you can get it to about -33 and it's still a liquid. Works great, you just can't dump it on the ground after a pass though. Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 26, 2021 07:13AM
Question???!	Quote No ice We used to use a mix of water and ice, now we run pure glycol and nothing else. If you use an industrial freezer you can get it to about -33 and it's still a liquid. Works great, you just can't dump it on the ground after a pass though. You carry it with a 12 volts cooler ? Do you notice a air intake temperature difference vs the ice ? Thanks for helping me out Reply Quote

Re: Glycol vs ice February 27, 2021 07:33PM

No ice

We have a medical freezer in the hauler, it's wired off an inverter. The glycol needs to be in the freezer for like 4 days before you need it to make sure it's cold enough. We take the drums out and put them on the scales to get weighed then put it in the cooler about 15 minutes before we hook. Only issue is if you are pulling a few days in a row, there isn't enough time to get th glycol back to the right temperature, unless you have a lot of freezers and a lot of glycol.

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Re: Glycol vs ice February 28, 2021 07:54AM

Question???!

Quote
No ice
We have a medical freezer in the hauler, it's wired off an inverter. The glycol needs to be in the freezer for like 4 days before you need it to make sure it's cold enough. We take the drums out and put them on the scales to get weighed then put it in the cooler about 15 minutes before we hook. Only issue is if you are pulling a few days in a row, there isn't enough time to get th glycol back to the right temperature, unless you have a lot of freezers and a lot of glycol.

do you need the same weight as ice ?

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	Re: Glycol vs ice February 28, 2021 08:10AM
No ice	Slightly less, glycol is heavier than water/ice. Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 26, 2021 10:39AM
Ehren Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 27	Propylene or ethylene? Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 26, 2021 12:28PM
Antifreeze	Doesn't matter. They are both antifreeze. Either one will work. Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 26, 2021 11:35PM
jd43 Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406	Has anyone tried a layer of dry ice then water ? Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 27, 2021 07:19PM
gonzo 1066 Registered: 10/21/2008 Posts: 756	Quote jd43 Has anyone tried a layer of dry ice then water ? . Dry ice is -109F if you dump water on it you will have just water ice. I would assume that dry ice with Glycol would work as long as you make sure you do not freeze your tank. Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 28, 2021 12:00AM
jd43 Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406	I've been wanting to try it. Thanks for the info. Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 28, 2021 12:31AM
Ehren Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 27	True, they are both antifreeze, but they are different in heat transfer properties, viscosity, freezing point, etc. Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice February 28, 2021 02:38AM
Huh?	Why would you want to dump it on the ground? Reply Quote

Re: Glycol vs ice March 01, 2021 03:12AM

gonzo 1066

Registered: 10/21/2008
Posts: 756

Straight Glycol freezes at 8 degrees. 24 degrees less than water. Glycol is between 5 and10 percent less efficient than water for heat transfer but the additional drop in fluid temp should make up that deficiency easily. I assume the trick would be to chill it to 10 degrees and hold that temperature for the pass. Could you trap dry ice in a tank and cool the glycol but not freeze it?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2021 03:18AM by gonzo 1066.

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Re: Glycol vs ice March 01, 2021 04:52AM

TripleAlphaProcess

Registered: 01/03/2019
Posts: 280

This website can be helpful if you plan on switching to know what you need to replace the Ice/Water mixture with supercooled water/glycol mixture;

[www.engineeringtoolbox.com]

Higher values transfer heat more poorly, while values of less than 1.0 would transfer heat more efficiently. Ethylene glycol has a specific heat of 2.78, and propylene glycol has a specific heat of 2.73. At 50% water and 50% antifreeze, the specific heat of engine coolant is much closer to that of water.

My personal opinion is to use the 50/50 mixture and a simple heat transfer equation to figure out what you need: Q = m × c × Δ T

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	Re: Glycol vs ice March 01, 2021 05:48AM
Mike P	Why not use ice with rock salt mixed in? That way you can get it below freezing (32F). Anyone who has made homemade ice cream knows this. Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice March 01, 2021 06:58AM
TripleAlphaProcess Registered: 01/03/2019 Posts: 280	Quote Mike P Why not use ice with rock salt mixed in? That way you can get it below freezing (32F). Anyone who has made homemade ice cream knows this. Corrosion. Reply Quote

Re: Glycol vs ice March 01, 2021 07:13AM

Question???!

Quote
TripleAlphaProcess
This website can be helpful if you plan on switching to know what you need to replace the Ice/Water mixture with supercooled water/glycol mixture;

[www.engineeringtoolbox.com]

Higher values transfer heat more poorly, while values of less than 1.0 would transfer heat more efficiently. Ethylene glycol has a specific heat of 2.78, and propylene glycol has a specific heat of 2.73. At 50% water and 50% antifreeze, the specific heat of engine coolant is much closer to that of water.

My personal opinion is to use the 50/50 mixture and a simple heat transfer equation to figure out what you need: Q = m × c × Δ T

Mixed engine coolant looks like a good option ?!

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Re: Glycol vs ice March 03, 2021 10:39AM

TripleAlphaProcess

Registered: 01/03/2019
Posts: 280

Quote
Question???!

This website can be helpful if you plan on switching to know what you need to replace the Ice/Water mixture with supercooled water/glycol mixture;

[www.engineeringtoolbox.com]

Higher values transfer heat more poorly, while values of less than 1.0 would transfer heat more efficiently. Ethylene glycol has a specific heat of 2.78, and propylene glycol has a specific heat of 2.73. At 50% water and 50% antifreeze, the specific heat of engine coolant is much closer to that of water.

My personal opinion is to use the 50/50 mixture and a simple heat transfer equation to figure out what you need: Q = m × c × Δ T

Mixed engine coolant looks like a good option ?!

I think it is for heat transfer and for viscosity.

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	Re: Glycol vs ice March 01, 2021 02:25PM
Superfarm	It also depends on the class you run. Right out of ppl super farm. 7. Intercoolers are permitted with the use of water and/or ice only. Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice March 02, 2021 12:51PM
Boozer	Methanol or methanol and water mix. Some older natural gas engines used it for cooling. It transferred heat better and wouldn’t need as big of cooler (radiator). Also if liners leaked it would evaporate instead of wiping out bearings. I no the clear stuff in freezer doesn’t freeze. HAhaha!!! Reply Quote

	Re: Glycol vs ice March 03, 2021 02:59AM
jd43 Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406	"Cool storey". I thought you where going to tell us the cooler blew apart. I guess I better stick to ice water. Reply Quote

Re: Glycol vs ice March 03, 2021 02:41AM

Jake Morgan

Admin
Registered: 03/25/2008
Posts: 2,526

Glycol and dry ice always makes me think of one of my favorite pulling memories... it was about 20ish years ago and I still remember it like it was yesterday, it was at an ESP pull at Strawberry Fields Cafe in Arcade NY. I was helping Craig Smith and Jason Hootman on their Light Super The Mighty White (now called Z-ride by the way). The three of us spent the winter making a ton of changes switching from two turbos to three and we designed an intercooler that Jason built. It was a simple design with two logs that had tons of small diameter tubes connecting them all inside a box with a bolt-on top. It sat down between the frame rails of the front weight bracket, you would have never known it was there if you walked by the tractor.

We decided to run glycol and dry ice in the intercooler for it's first test pass. We packed the inner cooler with as much dry ice as we could and then topped it off with some milky pink glycol. It immediately started to bubble and boil off the dry ice and it looked like some science experiment gone wrong. I remember us looking at each other in silence as we watched this pink liquid bubble and boil for a minute or so until Jason finally looked at me and with a serious look on his face said "what the hell are we doing?". I remember us breaking out laughing because we didn't have a clue what it would do or what we we doing. We bolted the cover of the inner cooler back on but had to leave a few of the bolts out because as the dry ice evaporated it expanded much more than we anticipated and the whistling from the vent sounded like a steam engines whistle. We threw a bunch of blankets on the front and towed it across the scales and to the start line. Jason was pretty late in the class and it was 95 F and humid that day. I remember after about 45 minutes I pulled the blankets back (they were draped all the way to the ground) and I looked under the front of the tractor and the bottom of the intercooler was covered in ice and snow and there was snow starting to accumulate in the grass like the tractor created it's own microclimate. Again, we were in our mid-twenties and had no clue what we were doing and snow was just one more weird thing to see at a pull that day.

We didn't even know if the tractor would run with the new turbo setup, we just put the top charger from the twin setup on the bottom and got another matching bottom charger from the twin setup and put them both up on top. We didn't even know if it would work or lite, honestly I don't think any of us really expected it to get much past the 100' mark. The Mighty White definitely surprised all of us that day, especially Jason who was in the seat, because it ran like a scalded dog that afternoon. It lit as smooth as silk and immediately stood straight to the wheelie bars and ran as crisp as could be and it flew straight out the end and made it into a pulloff with Mark Hayes' Supernatural (the old Down and Dirty tractor) who had absolutely dominated the ESP LSS circuit in those days. Unfortunately the Mighty White didn't have a Crower clutch in it for that pass and it absolutely destroyed the clutch on that +300' pass so Jason and Craig weren't able to make it back for the pulloff.

I can't help but think of that hot humid afternoon whenever I read about glycol and dry ice.

As a side note the glycol was lukewarm after just one pass and we had some simple dial-type thermometers on both the inlet and outlet of the intercooler and it showed a significant temperature change. I can't remember but I think Jason and Craig ran ice water later in the year and I know they ran in the pulloff with a warm inner cooler and might have run a time or two with an empty inner cooler just to see if they noticed a difference. It would have been fun to have a dyno to get some real data to see how much it helped and how long it stayed cold.

Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News

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