06:22:35am, Sunday, May 19, 2024
|
ESP RULES
|
want to know
|
ANY WORD ON RULE CHANGES FOR ESP IN THE SS CLASS? |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
ideas?
|
Didn't know there needed to be rule changes. Do you have any ideas or suggestions? Everything seems to be working ok. |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Gone to far
|
Everything is great. That's why ESP is losing another diesel. They better hope it doesn't sell or it wil be all alkys in 2 years. Keep up the great work. Nytpa isn't to far behind them. Other than they have a few more diehards (hardheads) |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
ideas
|
I take it you think the diesels and alkys should be seperate. Look at the past champions for the heavys. Last 2 years have been diesel. Don't see where the alkys are dominating. The light class is going to alkys just like the rest of the light classes in the country. If seperated there would be 3 or 4 tractors in the diesel class. Sell that to a promotor. Ideas or suggestions? Or just smart comments? |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Puller#3
|
Ideas it is really very simple. Now pay attention to win the points you do not have to dominate or even win an event. You have to do well and make ALL THE EVENTS. Not dominate. Class dismissed. Signed professor |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 277 |
OK, ESP splits the Diesels and Alcohol tractors, in both the light and heavy class. Now when the promoter chooses the 4 class' they want what class,s are going to get left out? Would you rather pull together or set home and watch the other class? |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Team one
|
What diesel are they losing, who's selling? |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Probably not the same rumor, but believe that one of the newer smokers is going to be converted to the smokeless variety for the light and heavy classes. |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Eyes open
|
Look on the for sale page. Clue: " it only money " to buy it |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Team one
|
Sorry I don't know the esp tractors very well only a few that mix in with ntpa so I could easily be missing it even if it's right in front of me was mostly curious if it was Boxlers because they did not make it out this year . |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Big Jack
|
Question for Gone To Far.................Lets say they split they alkys and diesels. Henry gets the oiling problems fixed on the Final Decision, Hans comes back with the Special, John Raymond and Danny Beal show up. Assuming your not the Mid Life Crisis, you are back in 6th place. What did you gain? |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
GONE TO FAR
|
HELLO !!!! YOU HAVE RESOLVED THE ALKY DIESEL PROBLEM. THEIR IS A REASON WHY THE NATIONAL EVENTS DON'T RUN THEM TOGETHER AND IF ALL OF THE ABOVE PEOPLE FROM POST ABOVE CAME BACK THAT'S A WIN. GOOD NUMBERS AND GREAT SHOW. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. DO PEOPLE REALLY THINK BEFORE THEY POST ON HERE. FIX IT BE FORE IT IS TOO LATE |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Looks like a huge "ALKY DIESEL PROBLEM":
Point Champions for the Heavy Super 2013 Roy Metz 2012 Roy Metz 2011 Henry Everman 2010 Henry Everman 2009 Henry Everman 2008 Dave Everman 2007 Jason Hootman You have to go all the way back to 2007 to find a alcohol tractor that won the points. Roy won 6 hooks this year. That is the most of any single tractor in the class, twice that of the next two tractors. Mark Hootman won three, Henry Everman won three. The top two points tractors were diesels. If we're going to seriously talk about splitting the class I suggest we put John Deere's in one class and all the other colors in another class because the statistics say that's as logical as splitting the diesel and alcohol tractors into two classes. Let's not pretend there's a problem when there isn't. If Henry or Mark start to truly dominate then the weights can be re-adjusted, but splitting the classes makes no sense and just wont work in ESP. As for the national associations splitting the classes... these are the same brilliant associations that brought us 640, 650, and 680 cubic inch limits, letting you run a John Deere block in a Minneapolis Moline, allowing any Ag block, etc... yeah they're real geniuses! Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Now Jake, don't go all common sense on me! |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
If this were Facebook, Here is a Like for Jake's Post. From the fans point of view it does not interest me to watch 1 class of 3 or 4 Alky HSS fight it out followed by a separate class of 3 or 4 HSS Diesel tractors slugging it out but with another 3 or 4 Super Farms making a run in this class to add to their purse money for the trip home. That is not a scenario that I think would make happy fans. I suspect most fans would rather see all of them run in 1 class and use weight and other means to level the field as much as you can. |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Meeting
|
Any thing new at ESP for 14? |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
SS DIESEL will be fazed out eventully, I see coming, even though they ss-diesel LET alkeys come in to THERE class to begin with! (its sad) the correct limits could'nt be found like MORE weight dis-advantage on alkeys they are running on average of 10'-30'+ feet better on most runs i've seen. and thats alot!!!! and the ONLY diesel running with them is 680+ cube jd diesel, most other diesels are quite smaller cube, ANOTHER thing killing SS DIESEL class!! 540 cube should be MAX... all above 540 cube should have weight dis-advantage ALSO!. its to easy and cheaper to screw in plugs and put in a dist. now, since most alkey pullers now were diesel pullers and they could'nt get there diesels to run with and compete SO they are just opting to alkey now, since they could'nt get diesels tuned and keep reliable. there are so many alkey bolt on parts built for Unlimmited SS NTPA class now, no wonder there running good, not to hard to bolt on proven parts and run it,don't take any skill or brains either. (sad smoker) |
|
Diesel - Methanol split
|
Registered: 04/09/2008 Posts: 277 |
Neither Methanol or Diesel tractors are a bolt on and go technology! The good running Methanol and Diesel tractors have years of research and developement behind them. Even then it is not your grandfathers Buick where you just get on it and go!
First I looked at the Points results, it appears to me that a JD won the most hooks by a large margin. The Methanol tractors that are winning have the latest and greatest technology or close to it. As was stated earlier, a diesel that appears to be written to the rules won the most hooks. If the diesel would have won 1 more hook he would have won as many hooks as everyone else combined. Regarding winning distances, when i look at the individual pull results, i see the Crises winning by 20+ ft 2 times, and Henry winning by 30+ one time. the rest less than 20 ft unless i missed one. It appears the diesels, if they are built to max rules, like the winning Methanol Tractors are then they are pretty equal. It almost seems that the Methanol tractors maybe should have a little more weight. Promoters are only going to pay so much for prize money and pull expenses. When the pulls are at fairs, the time constraints are limited also. For a long time I had always felt, if there were 15 vehicles between 2 class' one class having 11 vehicles the other 4 then the promoter would be happy. In the past few years I have spoken to several promoters that gave me a different in-site into their thinking and feelings. They are not happy with small class' because the promoter looks at the vehicles that finish farther down in a class and do not get paid much are cheap entertainment. A small class the promoter has to pay the top money for the 3 or 4 vehicles in the class and they feel they are paying a lot for not much in return. In addition more class' take more time with the changing of the sled and other things that are done. It appears there is no real reason to split the class diesel and Methanol. If anything like Mr. Morgan said it looks like it should be split JD and others. As we have been seeing the past few years, not all the class are chosen for all the pulls. I feel that If the class is split it will mean one more class will get left home. Are the diesels willing to chance losing a couple hooks, 5 hooks, or possibly half their hooks. Would the rules be made that the Methanol tractors could not pull in the Diesel class but the diesels could pull in the Methanol? If that is the case then everyone should weigh the same! One other thought, why do we see all the opinions regarding this, but people are not proud enough and have faith enough in what they are saying to sign their name? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2013 07:23AM by Policy Peddler. |
|
Re: ESP RULES
|
Registered: 07/13/2013 Posts: 76 |
*Their class not "THERE class", " no wonder there( * they're )running good" if you bitch at least use good grammar. Also, *phased, *couldn't, *unlimited
" ......no skills or brains" needed to make an alky run? I'm sure many on this forum will beg to differ. Bolt on proven parts, isn't that what diesel injection pumps are? |
|
the END of the diesel class
|
good bye
|
it's stupid that the diesel pullers want to spilt the class, if they do you can color the diesel ss class gone! who would want to see a class with maybe 3, but sometimes 2 good diesel ss run against a bunch of super farms. the fans and promoters will only want the alcohol ss . and the promoters will figure out just have the super farm class and the alcohol supers and you now get all but a couple of the grease burners. diesel ss need the alcohol tractors in their class,,,,not the other way around. diesel guys split the class and in 2 years you better figure on buying spark plugs cause that the only place you'll have to hook....smarten up!!!!!!! how many diesel super stocks have been built in esp versus alcohol super stocks recently!!!!!!none!!! |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
my belief
|
i just don't think combining classes works. you'll constantly be adjusting the rules to keep things even. let's just say you're combing super farms and limited pros and they've been running pretty equal until one winter all the limited pro guys step it up and get their tractors running better and put 15 feet on the super farms all summer. you know the next winter the limited pros are going to be penalized and have something taken away to equalize them back up. so why would anyone bother working on their equipment? just sit back and know that if anyone gets too far ahead they'll be penalized and you'll be back equal.
however, I do realize sometimes there's not enough of each to justify running two separate classes. that's when pullers have to realize that's the risk they take, everyone needs to agree on one class and get in, or find another class altogether to get in. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
I'M just saying it was and always has been SS-diesel class, alkeys are just running with them DA!. there is a mod. class they could run in also, or Lt.-SS is closer to there true build. there have been 0 DIESEL-SS that have been built they are all going alkey thats my point. DIESELS take SKILL to build and NOT just bolting on a inj. pump!!, they need to last, and hold up, not so much with alkeys run run and run again back to back- i build both! alkeys are way cheaper and easyer you can bolt on proven parts on alkey,once tuned in, good to go! there are way more advantages to alkey motors guys, i am a DIESEL guy NOT alkey i like to see all run. when henry now david,ben,herm all going alkey there is not much of a show left for smokers.and to build the diesel to compete here with esp's newer lineup it is not worth it,, thats why the class is going this way now.only one hanging in is, 680 JD for now and thats getting old seeing cube advantage also, harrisburg has seen it!!, why can't esp,need to figure out either more weight dis-advantage to alkeys or tire change to even them all up a bit before all smokers are GONE. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
good bye
|
so let me get this straight,,,you would rather have a diesel only class that nobody wants to see and no promoter will offer than keep the classes together.. I like how you stated that the alcohol guys just buy stuff and bolt it on... like you built your inj pump, turbo's,, head,,,NO,,, you called Columbus diesel, Riverside, Hyper...your problem is the last time you called them was 1993,,,not 2013....what will your diesel only class look like with 3 tractors that make 3000 hp and 10 that make 1000 hp,,,that should be exciting,,,you diesel guys sound like you need the government to step in and make it all fair,,,you spend no money and the alcohol guys spend money and you want it fair...spend money!!!!!! quite crying!!!! |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
yea spend no money on diesels! ha, tell that to boxlers or raymond,danny or henry or loyde,david there blocks and cranks ect. why split anything off keep it just the way it is now mostly!!!, it"s semi close,Easy! were all local not ntpa bound- talk,all pullers vote,, change weight disadvantage maybe tweek it a bit is all, try anything that easy? 500 is not working now , thats a free change or tire change maybe for alkey guys there out runnig all mostly easy and more by next year is my guess,ss-diesel is fading here just try to even out+make it more level for cube max # for all brands!!! the sky is not the limit nore is possible with all brands- vote,,,take IH diesel is 540 ish max all known aprox.,alkey more maybe but unless you want timebomb per say or you want to go ntpa and spend more$$ go nuts.. this is ESP why would that 1 rule know to hurt a brand and owner$ go behond that to hurt certain brand and a local pullers$$$? there are just a few minor issues talk,vote try something or we should re name class to unlimited and all spend more$$$$. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
ideas
|
There will be no rule changes for 2014 light or heavy super stock class. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
SS class
|
always been a SS Diesel class??
what came first chick or egg?? I seen allot of GAS long before Diesel. How many people know what a SS tractor is?
|
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
wrench
|
unless you go back to the stone ages and super heavy classes, it started as ss-diesel when they started adding mulitable chargers, and that was gasoline running on gasoline you recall !!it's not what there running in alkey's now for sure OR will alkeys run on strait gasoline now?.like diesels will! i'm thinking mostly the egg heads all came first all TRYING to run diesels,,and could'nt hack it,or figure them out,, most all now that were diesel-- all chicked out and went alkey since they could'nt get there diesels to run correct and hold up. with no real rules on cube limits! and letting a alkeys run with diesels even up basicly ,esp must know more than ntpa, They knew enough to seperate. there are to many advantage's to alkey's for sure!,and diesels get no advantage's worth anything. its like i said before, class should be called all goes unlimmited now. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
SS CLASS
|
for a tractor to be called a SS it is very EZ
A SS tractor is every tractor that has a modifaction done over stock that meets the saftey rules and runs within a class limits. You can run ANY tractor in a class CALLED SS there is no min. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
Moderator Registered: 11/27/2008 Posts: 108 |
You need to show proof that the diesels need more of an edge in order to win. Also,, NTPA can separate the class when there's more than 10 tractors in a class..Maybe ESP should make it a "feel good" class and give ALL competitors a first place trophy and hook fees back like is done in the kids' classes.. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
There is only one class in the NTPA that is a single fuel only class and that is the Diesel Super Stock class. In the other two SS classes you can run either diesel or alcohol. Technically the Diesel Super Stock class is a NEW class. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2013 01:02PM by Jake Morgan. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
SS CLASS
|
can you run alkie in a prostock class? |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
No, the Prostock is not a Super Stock class. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
wrench
|
very true!! on min's rules, there is also no real checked, max rules either! |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
Registered: 09/03/2010 Posts: 393 |
Is there any mention in the prostock classes as to what kind of fuel you have to run? |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
Posts: 347 |
NTPA rule book states Diesel fuel only for Pro Stock. Rule F under Pro Stock division. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
Check Again
|
Fairly sure it say it must run native fuel. There are a couple of gas or propane tractors. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
checked
|
rule F: "Diesel fuel only. Water injection and/or intercooler allowed. Use of gasohol and/or alcohol is prohibited." |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
then how
|
How does Fools Gold get to pull in that class? |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
grandfathered?
|
weren't guys like him grandfathered in a few years back? |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
I checked the NTPA web page and Fools Gold pulled in Region 2 Pro Stock but not Grand National Pro Stock class. Not sure but are rules different for Region 2 and Grand National? I have seen Fools Gold pull in USA East and it ran well when I saw it. |
|
Re: the END of the diesel class
|
Posts: 347 |
I've talked with John (Fool's Gold owner) in the past at Bowling Green. He told us straight up his is the last gasoline powered Pro Stock you will see, as he was running grandfathered at the time. Super guy to talk to!
I am not seeing this "native fuel" clause in the NTPA Pro Stock rules, may exist in other organizations though. There was (and maybe still is) a MM G1000 that ran propane in the SF (or was it a Pro?) class and was called Pro Pain. Mark Colburg I think? Haven't seen it for a long time, not sure what happened to it. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2013 01:02AM by FarmersFun. |
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,779, Posts: 229,957, Members: 3,338.
This forum: Topics: 37,098, Posts: 226,040.
Global: Topics: 38,779, Posts: 229,957, Members: 3,338.
This forum: Topics: 37,098, Posts: 226,040.
Our newest member Jacklovik2009
