05:19:15am, Sunday, April 28, 2024
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Mitas
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Prostock Watcher
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I saw the ntpa announcement on Facebook about Mitas 24.5 are currently under review. What's the back story? Who is calling them out? |
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Re: Mitas
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HP
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Wondering the same.
I see the 18.4-16.1 has similar issue. Are the too far around, or are they too wide? Or both? |
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Re: Mitas
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pulling fan
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They look like there about 215" to 218" dia. |
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Re: Mitas
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TELLMEITAIN'TSO
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In my o-pinion, -pretty stupid to worry about tire size,-- all tires regardless of purpose, manufacturer, or specifically made for pulling, All vary,air pressure, weight of unit installed on, how many times pulled, cut, groomed, worn,rim width all make the circumference different. OK, now require the tires to be EXCATLY the same(impossible), - then I will just change my gear radius to accomplish the same as a bigger(slightly) tire, Dumb DUMB and DUMBER. Much more to be concerned about ,than 1/2 inch tire variance. |
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Re: Mitas
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sizemattersfannatic
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I'll take the 218" circumference and you can change your gears,.....................all day long and twice today 
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 03/30/2008 Posts: 191 |
From their Facebook page:
Attention Competitors Effective Immediately, 11/14/2022, the current version of the Mitas 24.5 x 32 does not meet the specifications in the NTPA Rulebook, therefore they will not be legal for competition in the 2023 pulling season. Until a new version is presented for approval to the WPI Executive Board and NTPA Technical Services, this ruling is in effect with no exceptions. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
So they didn't say what specific spec they didn't meet? Guessing circumference, but that's just a guess. So, hypothetically if someone does have a set of tires that passes all the specs they are still illegal... Odd. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,145 |
The problem there is, the Mitas comes as a "slick" and the circumference rule is "uncut".
So it's impossible to get a cut Mitas tire through tech as nobody knows, what size it was before cutting. Europe will happily take them back, We have such a high demand for 24.5s in classes where bigger tires are allowed (coming from AG radials that work better until a certain power level), it's not even funny. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
Out of the mold as a slick passes as uncut as far as I'm concerned, but if that circumference is larger than permitted, I don't see a problem with the ruling. NTPA is just calling out known illegal tires. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,145 |
Yep - not saying NTPA is wrong here. Just a slick has to be cut. Some "uncut" not... Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
So how many pullers have them now? Will everyone that has them just go to ppl? Not going to play with 2 different weight setups for 2 different types of tires for 2 different series,right? |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Team one
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It really depends on if PPL follows suit, I’m not sure how their rule reads, I doubt they will as they weren’t enforcing it as it is. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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???
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So if the 24.5 mitas is illegal now why is the 30.5 legal? They are made the same way. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
They have to wait till closer to the pulling season to cut their other wrist. You can’t push all competitors to the other sanctioning body all at once. Have to wait till after all the new chassis are built first to rebalance for the mitas, then you make them illegal. Have to make sure ALL pullers equally have to spend money twice. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Team one
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This begs the question, why do they work so good, who has them and knows they don’t fit the rules? Who is running them solely because they are oversized and can gain an edge? Things to think about , you can’t tell me no one knew so it’s hard to feel bad for them. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
So the 24.5 mitas wasn't approved for competion by ntpa when the tire was first brought out ?? |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Major Crank
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Bye Bye NTPA PS class.. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 02/23/2017 Posts: 137 |
I bet you'll see people run back to NTPA to avoid the mitas tire if PPL allows the mitas to stay..... |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Major Crank
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I don't understand your logic. If pullers already own Mitas tires why would they go to NTPA |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 02/23/2017 Posts: 137 |
How many pro stocks actually have a set of mitas tires? I think it's safe to say there are more with pro pullers than mitas because of the rare availability of them in North America.... If you are part if the majority who does not have them, and can't get them, why do you want to pull against them??? |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
I know most of the top tractors are running the Mitas tires. So your talking almost if not all of the top runners just going fulltime ppl instead of running both. Why would you keep switching setups to run elsewhere. If they outlaw the 30.5 then you lose all but maybe 1 unlimited.. We are also not talking some basic part either. What’s a set of mitas cost. If You bought a couple sets you are now illegal and stuck with multiple sets…. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Tomah winner
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Maybe because they like to pull a lot. Idk. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 02/18/2018 Posts: 244 |
“Most of the top tractors” dude there are no sets of Mitas tires in Northeast Ohio or Farley, IA |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 07/09/2008 Posts: 133 |
Guarantee that you're wrong. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
Must have photoshopped the Mitas right onto these than? |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Rules Minder
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Thats an awesome pic!!! Was he DQ'd on that pass??
It truly shows that the rules of both organizations are not worth the paper they are written on... Face Shield not down.... Would like to see a pic from BG or another pull with the other tires on to see the gap between tire and fender to judge OD difference... |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
Both series had pullers going down the track all year with visors up… most of them being Minis! |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Rules Minder
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Reinforces my point...
The rules (ok semantics.... ENFORCEMENT of the rules... ) of both organizations are not worth the paper they are written on... Selective enforcement at best. The visor thing is blatant as everyone can see it... |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 07/18/2016 Posts: 74 |
I never put the Visor down. With Glasses they fog over almost immediately. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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simple solution fannatic
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Does NHRA...NASCAR...have these tire problems? No... because they tell the competitors what tire they are going to run,...proably based off of which manufacturer pays the most money to them.....but the fact still remains that it eliminates this problem of multiple configurations of tires,...if you think tires aren't everything in the 10 pro class just look up the Rats record after it put on the Mitas.... |
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Facts and data??
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roadkill
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This post may be the closest to the issue.. The main issue is pullers don't want to keep buying new tires (but hey, a new turbo or new head or new....... is ok). You can dyno engine stuff. When it comes to tires the result is unknown until you run it..
So to slow the $$, width is the issue... Once the PP (ProPuller) tire came out in the 24.5, they started degrading 3/4 of the way thru the season. Pullers noticed the loss in performance and then 3 or 4 new variations showed up. 10 ply, 12 ply, holeshot, etc... If you are a Prostock puller who wants to win, you have to figure out which one works so $50k later you have 4 sets of mediocre tires. PP has not had much success with 30.5's (just dropped that here).. Perhaps PP is being backed by someone and is pushing for a One Tire Solution (starting to sound like the government now with Russian collusion and all  ). And wellahhhh... PP is now the Official Tire of the PS class.... BTW.. Tire price goes up as now PP has to provide big sponsorship $$$ to both organizations... (I believe Vories wanted to make the P2K the only tire for the unlimiteds but that got voted down several years ago.. BV you are a smart man., now the pullers got what they asked for.. Tire competition)
Many have been told all their lives that size doesn't matter(  ). For tires it does matter for contact patch size and circumference but the illegality is width...
The original spec for a NEW TIRE 24.5-32 was 24.5" wide and 210" in circumference (measured on a 26" wide rim @10psi if my memory is correct). Someone then lobbied to change the rule when their new but never proven tire came in over 24.5" wide and they couldn't afford a new mold.. Now the spec is 25" wide and etc... from above. Does the GY tire meet that? The reason for measurements on a new tire is that is the only thing the sanctioning bodies can control. Once the tire is cut, all bets are off... Apparently if you get beat because someone has found a better engine component, thats fine. The pullers will go buy it, dyno it, tune it and run it.. Not the same for tires..There are only a select few that know how to and what makes them work. My next question here is now did anyone measure a 30.5-32 Mitas tire tread width and does it measure 31" (guessing as I dont have the rule book) and if it is 31.01" wide NEW are they illegal?? If so are all the Mitas 30.5's illegal and Mitas just takes their ball and goes home...? I believe the Mitas 24.5 tread with is actually 25.00 +/- 0.01.... (measured on a XX @ yy psi) For a spec to be a spec, one needs a spec and tolerance (and a cool diagram)... Thats why technical people should make the spec... If you made it this far, thanks!! I'll sit back and watch.. |
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Re: Facts and data??
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certification fannatic
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I have yet to see a tire cutter add rubber to a tire,...yes they can stretch the circumference with heat, but they cannot increase width...so really unless these tires are mandated to have no modifications done to them after they leave the factory,...it's actually useless to certify a tire out of the mold. It's legality should not be in question until it's actually being teched on the vehicle at an event. The tire cutters know the limits,....make them adhere to them. Turbo shops do it all day long for restricted classes. As for the idea of having one tire manufacturer,... what oversight will there be to eliminate special tire manufacturing processes being done for one very $pecific team? Answer: There is no oversight................extra cords better tire$............... 
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Re: Facts and data??
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roadkill
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The tread width can be affected by the wheel width and how the circumference changes with inflated shape. Ie. If you use a narrower rim, the circumference will be larger and the edges of the tread will be pulled toward the center of the tire at it is inflated making a narrower tread patch..
If one measures a Mitas 24.5 on a 26" wide rim (@ 10 psi etc...) it may measure 24.90" wide treadwidth but if you measure it on a 26.5" rim, it may be 25.01". I'm not sure if the "certification tire" was measured on a steel 32 x 26" rim or an aluminum 2 piece pulling rim. The 26" wide aluminum pulling rim is not really made to any type of ISO standard like a steel ag rim so hopefully the process for certifying a tire includes measuring and seeing the measurement of the rim width, etc. etc... Measurements of the tire should then be taken after 24 hours of the assembly normalizing to a specified temperature..... Concerning oversight.. I have no opinion... |
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Re: Facts and data??
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width fannatic
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So,.......the tire should only be certified on every individual vehicle? Otherwise you say that width can be increased with rim choice.....which would make it out of spec. Special tires made for $pecial teams is potentially a bigger problem,.... that you have no opinion on? 
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Donk
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I think ntpa did the right thing. Transparency? They told who -Mitas They told what -does not meet specification If that is not good enough that would be like me letting you know I had cancer but did not tell you what type so now I am not transparent? Really? What some of the other associations have done to address it sounds good but here is what would concern me. There are some strong indicators that these tires are too big around and too wide in the uncut condition. Do these associations want to become the tire police? I doubt it. History shows us they will not. History shows us the "catch me if you can" mentality will take over because you have now allowed a tire that has the capability to exceed the specification. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Does anyone run them uncut? Yeah, I didn't think so. You're allowed to modify EVERY sinlge part of the tractor to make it legal... but not the tires? You can't modify the Mitas tires to make them legal under any circumstances in NTPA... sure that seem logical! Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Donk
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Jake If the goal is to only allow 210" circumference and you had a choice between a tire uncut that was 210" and one that exceeded 210" I think I know which one has the best chance of not exceeding 210". Seems pretty logical to me. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Donk
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Jake my intentions are not to make this a arguement but to explain why I thought it was logical. By the way I don't have that big a issue about circumference because you have gearing options although larger diameter equals better footprint. Now width is a different story. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
No worries, I just see it different and completely illogical to not allow modification to this one specific thing when every other modification is allowed. He's another analogy of what the NTPA did with the Mitas tire situation:
It's like US states deciding to ban all vehicle that were capable of going over the speed limit. The only reason is because they came from the factory with the ability to exceed the limits. Afterall, the easiest solution would be just to outright ban the cars and trucks and then they wouldn't have to police ANY interstates. Sounds crazy right? Illogical right? Maybe not to some but it sounds excessive to me. This is where logic and common sense are debatable. Instead it's up to each driver to know their vehicle and follow the law... The outright ban on Mitas tires is completely the same as banning cars that can exceed the speed limit. Its also completely inconsistent with anything else the NTPA does with regards to rules. The logical thing for the NTPA to do would be to simply clean up the wording of the rule. In fact HP (Harold Phipps) even show how illogical the rules are in this post: http://www.pulloff.com/phorum/read.php?2,323280,323341#msg-323341 when he wrote "Only way I can measure them, are "as cut"." The rule is so illogical that it can't be policed by the tech officials. Something that should be simple has been made illogical. Here's another example of how dumb this rule is: there are no rules that say the manufactures logo must remain inplace on the side of the tires... so someone could simply beltsand off the logos on the sides of their tires and NOBODY but them would know what tires they are running. Are they Mitas? Are they Pro Pullers? Are they Firestones? You could easily disguise your tires with some time on a belt sander and it would be nothing more than cosmetic! How do you police that? You don't! You simply police the size of the tires at the starting line if there are any concerns... Easy and logical. It's a bad rule. I understand the view that the only logical thing to do with the bad rule is to enforce it... I think it's much more logical to change the bad rule. Enforcing a garbage rule just reinforces garbage. It's also fine if we don't agree... you're entitled to like the rule if you want. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 12/01/2018 Posts: 108 |
The part of this entire thread that I struggle with the most is that the tire rule has been the same for a really long time. No one ever complained or whined about it until now. Why now?? This is not a new controversial rule!!!!!! |
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Re: Mitas 24.5 not ntpa legal now
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
You're correct, he Uncut part is not new... it's old... really old and antiquated and it's been overlooked for years. It's from a time when Ag tires were cut down to make pulling tires. The sport has evolved to purpose built pulling tires... the rules have been slower to evolve but they need to. The rule book as a whole needs a drastic update/reorganizing/re-write. It keeps getting added on to but not always in a logical way. This Mitas tire issue is just a symptom of the rulebook. It's the symptom that's showing up currently, but it's not the only problem. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas
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smartmouth
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weak minded people can't see the real issue, - gearing is not policed with rules, 1/2 inch tire size is, WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Re: Mitas
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track speed fannatic
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Gearing is policed too...............................policed by horsepower......................LOL |
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Re: Mitas
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Paull
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This is soooo **cking stupid, - air pressure changes the circumference.Many other areas of MAJOR importance that go unchecked, would never want to try to comply with any organization that knit picks like this. |
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Re: Mitas
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LSS Fan
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Why do tires have to be measured before being cut? What difference does that make, should only matter what their circumstance is when they go through tech. |
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Re: Mitas
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Blue Fan
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I agree with LSS Fan the rule is very clear 24.5x32 with a max 210 circumference ,when inflated to 10 psi.Tread not to exceed 25".
NTPA should Super Tech all the trires and if they are over 210 with 10 psi or over 25" they are gone . It hard for me to believe its legal to outlaw a copy from competion if they can meet the rules . Why didnt they outlaw Big Block Deeres back in the 80's when they had the chance or just outlaw JD all together LOL . |
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Re: Mitas
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RDPT
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The Mitas tires that are running fit the rules Ntpa has banned the tire because it is bigger then the rule in a uncut form there theory is if the tire fits the rule uncut it will fit it cut. From what I am being told it is the width that is the issue the sets that I own and have ran fit the rules they are actually under 25 “ wide but they have been ground on to meet that rule. We just had ppl meeting this evening and it was decided they will be checked at the pull 25” wide 210” at 10psi and in that situation the Mitas will be legal on PPL. Hopefully that helps clear it up
Justin Wagler |
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PPL for the WIN!
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Justin,
Thanks for sharing the info. Glad PPL got this right. Hopefully the NTPA follows suit. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: PPL for the WIN!
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Registered: 01/04/2022 Posts: 91 |
Hopefully they will, then it will give full clarity and no questions. |
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Re: PPL for the WIN!
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HP
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Seems the title of this sub thread didn't age well. |
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Re: PPL for the WIN!
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Time will tell... there's plenty of big money in the sport so we'll see where it goes for PPL's future. As for the rule on tires... yeah, PPL still got it correct. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: PPL for the WIN!
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HP
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As I understand it, the Outlaws got it right as well.
If the tire is the correct circumference and width, "ready to pull" it is legal. My words, not theirs. It is going to be a very interesting time from now till late May,,, |
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Re: PPL and Outlaws for the WIN!
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
If that's what Outlaws did then they got it right too, Kudo's to them. All we need is simple specs on height/circumference and width... nothing more... no nonsense about measurement at 10psi... no nonsense about uncut size... just simple rules. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 07/09/2008 Posts: 133 |
Bahahahaha...well played. |
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Re: Mitas
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
I'm confused, how can a tire be illegal until it's cut, mounted and inflated? I'm sure I'm missing something here. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Well...
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Transparency is a good thing.
NTPA could provide specific details so everyone knows the issue. |
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Re: Well...
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Registered: 09/26/2021 Posts: 71 |
Ntpa and transparency? Do they do that? |
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Re: Well...
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Registered: 12/28/2011 Posts: 48 |
There are at least 30 sets ok mitas 24.5 out there.thats about $425,000 spent by pullers.to outlaw them now sounds like something our stupid government might do..maybe just tweak the rule instead. |
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Re: Well...
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
Been tweaking years rules for 50 plus years |
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Re: Well...
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Moderator Registered: 02/21/2012 Posts: 797 |
So, the question becomes: if the Mitas tires have been an issue, why didn’t Richwine address it? John Murray Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama. Watch LGP on YouTube Like LGP on Facebook 
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Re: Mitas
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Puller
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This is just the start of things to come the new leadership and tech are running NTPA in the ground they keep loosing states Indiana will be next then another and another where will it stop |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 01/04/2022 Posts: 91 |
Even though it is not the most universally liked rule, isn't it better that they are enforcing some rules? I mean when was the last time they enforced any rule like this? Maybe it's just my thinking but pulling actually being fair sounds better than not. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I'm not even 100% sure why the tires are illegal. Has the NTPA been completely transparent on what was wrong with the tires?
So with that said, I agree that rules should be enforced or changed (especially if the rule make no sense or is outdated). If the rule being violated is the circumference of the tire before cutting... change the rule, it's completely idiotic. The BEFORE cutting wording makes no sense. The rule should be simple and clear and it should just have a maximum circumference that could be measured during weighing and drawbar checking if there was a concern. Rim width, air pressure, etc... don't need to be factored at all. If guys start adding air to their tires after scaling then that should be a red flag and then competitors can protest them at the end of the track. NTPA needs more transparency and better communication. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas
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Moderator Registered: 03/19/2018 Posts: 664 |
I agree on that point. As used, not as molded is where it matters. Announce it at the driver's meeting that class X is to be at 10 PSI at the scales and you will be jacked and measured. Simple. Efficient. Everyone sees it.
CP |
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Re: Mitas
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Paull
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Please, -yes enforce the rules, -which apparently were not looked at(many for sure), not after the tires are mounted, paid for in use and all around out in the pulling community, what a perfect example of why pulling is a clown type sport compared to many others. Rules are for the good of many, to increase participation and unity, not like this,to cause monetary loss and time,effort and value to be determined out side the rules. |
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Re: Mitas
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helpful
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MAYBE 10PSI using the SAME tire gauge at the scales. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I don't understand everyone's desire to make this overly complicated. I don't care what PSI it's measured at or what the ambient air temperature is or what the rim width when measured is. NONE of those things really matter, they are completely irrelevant variable as long as it's legal circumference (height just like drawbar really) when they are scaled. Some guys run 5psi some 7psi...that doesn't matter one bit, they can run 5,7, 20psi as long as the tire measures legal on their tractor at that given event. The only thing that matters is the circumference when scaled. Don't make it any more confusing. It's the pullers responsibility to know their tires and if anyone adds air after scaling then protest them... no different then if they add fuel and/or water after scaling or add weight after scaling... protest them if they don't re-scale. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I better clarify before I get the obvious response of "but air pressure changes the tire circumference"... I know... air pressure can also change drawbar height too but we don't argue that we need to measure drawbars at 10psi rear tire pressure and 30 psi front tire pressure. We simply measure drawbar height. Simply measure tire height (or circumference) if there's a concern... done! Don't over complicate things. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas
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Joey
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All it amounts to is Humans trying to control others, - all bull**it !!! |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 01/04/2022 Posts: 91 |
I mean it really isn't. |
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Re: Mitas
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Team One
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No….. it’s really about an “organization” and that word is important but it’s about an organization following a rule set established to keep competition fair I’m not saying NTPA is the holy grail but they do have the balls to follow and enforce most rules anyway especially when it comes to safety, that’s an important thing when trying to operate and organization anyone saying this is all BS are probably the same ones turning a blind eye to many violations. |
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Re: Mitas
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Team one
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Ok, so what do you suggest? Let everybody run their oversized tires? It destroys the integrity of the entire rule system, if you have a handful of competitors spending money to build an engine that is beyond the cubic inch limit do you just let them run because they’ve spent the money? It’s the same principle, the rules are there to be followed and the ones that don’t are to punished, there is no room to give in to the violators who complain about expense chances are they know what they’re doing isn’t right when they hand over the money to do it. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 03/30/2008 Posts: 191 |
At some point you've just got to enforce the rule. If you accept the Mitas what happens with the next tire that's just a little out of spec? I do think it would be a good idea for the tire manufacturers to submit one to be checked and prevent this from happening. Or if I were Mears or Epperson maybe reach out to the manufacturers and suggest some checking be done before too many get out and a lot of money thrown away. Deciding to check and declare the Mitas illegal this far into it is trying to stuff a lot of toothpaste back in the tube and comes across in a bad way to pullers who are now sitting there thinking it'd have been nice to find this out beforehand. |
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Re: Mitas
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Do you know if a cut, mounted, inflated tire is illegal? I understand how the rule written, however common sense needs to prevail. The tire should measured on the vehicle in the pulling environment. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Mitas
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HP
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The tire, as built is 2" over legal circumference.
That much CAN'T be cut out of the tire, and pressure and heat (summer ambient air temp) will only grow the tire. Mitas NEVER presented an example tire to anyone in NTPA. Now that NTPA is the boogeyman, I understand the Outlaws have a rule proposal to outlaw the 24.5 Mitas tire. At least Outlaws are giving their competitors a say in the decision. I'm wondering why no one is dealing with the 18.4-16.1? Is it ok?, or are we ignoring that till this drama plays out? |
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Re: Mitas
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Just asking for clarification: Someome mentioned these were run in 2022 at NTPA pulls. If this is incorrect, please verify. If pullers have ran these tires at NTPA events in 2022, please explain why NTPA is not in the wrong for not checking this (aka enforcing the rule)? Is this basically an "honor system" deal like ci where it's in the rulebook but there isn't time or manpower to really check? If each vehicle got the full meal deal prostate exam every event, that would be optimum, but there are only so many hours in the day and officials to do the work, is my guess. |
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Re: Mitas
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funny
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Seems awful FUNNY that nothing was said til after the Midas tires were proven to be great on the track, after the fact, how many months already ? The rule is invalid if not used the first day the tires surfaced at the track. Can't ignore it one day and not the next. And supposedly the tire has two inches of cuttable rubber, doesn't 1/2 inch less make almost two inches circumference less. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
So here's my confusion/concern: If I have a set of Mitas that are legal circumference and width on my super wide rims why can't I run them? To completely ban a tire seems a bit like a knee jerk reaction. Just enforce the circumference and we're done, but outright banning a product doesn't sit well with me. Also, I don't think Mitas should have to submit ANYTHING to NTPA. I can run an old set of BFG's and I'm pretty sure they never submit anything to NTPA. I can run old Firestones and I'm pretty sure the NTPA doesn't have any official approval or paperwork for them. If you can find ANY tires that fall within the spec you should be able to run them. I don't care if the tire was used on a WWII Russian tractor, if you can find a set that falls within a simple max width, max circumference rule then you should be able to run them... no questions asked no paperwork needed. Their not the bogeyman but they promote themselves as the leader. If you promote yourself as the leader then you have put that extra weight on your own shoulders. They do a good job leading many times... in recent memory driveshaft restraints and secondary engine cable come to mind, but on this one they haven't had much clarity other than clearly banning something for reasons. They need to lead with transparency and clarity. Make simple clear rules that are easy to enforce and understand. Keep the rule book as small as possible. Now is the time to start cleaning up the rules and give the rule book a revamp (it desperately needs one). Marvin Epperson has the chance to give the rules some simplification and clarity. It would be a great legacy. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 12/01/2018 Posts: 108 |
So I change tires on my pickup. My speedometer is now off 10mph, and I know that it is. I have since been driving around at the speed limit of 55mph on my Speedo for year now. Today I got pulled over and told I was speeding. I told them but I’ve been doing this for a year now, how can I get in trouble now? Please explain how this senecio is different. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2022 11:38AM by Jake Morgan. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
You scenario is not a parallel but Ill take a shot at it anyway. Speed is not monitored in pulling nor is gearing (at least not on the level we're discussing)... only tire size. If YOUR Mitas tire is sized the same (circumference/height) as your old Firestones your speedometer would read exactly the same. Feel free to put on any tire that is within the size limits. If you can make YOUR Mitas tire fit the specs at the starting line what's the problem?
Here's the problem, some are saying the Mitas is too wide, some are saying it's too tall (yes, circumference)... some are saying because the rule states the max size BEFORE cutting is why it's been banned. We don't know... not knowing is the problem. Outright banning is the problem. Are the Mitas Tires:
Much like your analogy, if you knew your tires made your speedometer off... that's your fault. Even if you didn't know that's still your problem because you're responsible for your vehicle. If you hook to the sled knowing you're not legal (tire size, cubic inch, turbo, etc...) that's still your responsibility. If you get caught, you still get the ticket/ban. If your engine builder built over the limit and you didn't know... still your problem. Do we go back and give you a speeding ticket for every day you drove your pickup with the new tires? Nope, we didn't catch you in the act so we can't re-write history. IF guys pulled last year with illegal tires they got lucky that nobody protested. It's history and now we figure out what the exact problem is. Moving forward, if they can make the tires fit the rules then let them run them. If it's the rule about UNCUT size... change the rule because it's a stupid rule. As far as max width and height... those rules are necessary... pick a number, any number and make the tires fit... ANY tires you want to run as long as they fit those rules. I think your analogy works... but probably not the way you wanted it too. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 12/01/2018 Posts: 108 |
You stated what I was after. They didn’t meet the current written rules. With that, the people that currently own them have no one to blame. Everyone knew the tire rule, it’s not anything new. I’m sure it was no secret that the tires didn’t fit the rules, especially the tire cutters. I believe that the “uncut” part of rule is to just eliminate any “fuckery”.Same reason that the 3” trucks are smooth bore now. |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
What part of the rule don't they meet? Are you sure? We've heard various rumors but no definite explanation of what rule violation is. Width, height, Uncut height? Which one was it again? Are you sure?
If a cop pulled you over and said you are illegal but didn't specify why you're illegal would you be satisfied? No way. What if you got pulled over and he said you have white letter tires... and you said, I ground off the white letters and painted over the white and now they're all black...and he said, they came from the factory with white letters so you're still illegal. He'd technically be correct but it would be a completely idiotic law. There's no way you be satisfied with that outcome. Nobody would be or should be. That would be an area where the law should be changed... Those are the two points I'm making. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Mitas
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roadkill
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For clarity, the RULE issue with the Mitas tire is the tread width.
The REAL issue is competitors keep buying more tires to keep up with the Jonses and its getting expensive,,, (Pro Stock) Competitors dont want to purchase Mitas tires for 2023 when the just purchased several sets of other tires in 2022 to be competetive, Hopefully the competitors will voice their opinions at the banquet meetings and define a real spec. Perhaps NTPA will provide clarity and transparency. |
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Re: Mitas
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
So is it circumference or width? Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Mitas
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Registered: 01/04/2022 Posts: 91 |
From what I've heard it is circumference |
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Re: Mitas
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Ben Around 2
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I agree with Jake. If it passes the scales then its all good unless something gets changed after crossing the scales. You don't have to jack up any tractor or anything complicated. All you need are tire checkers just like the 20" hitch checker. Have a fixed style caliper that measures 66.85 inches between the bars and another one that measures 25 inches or whatever the width rule is and if tire fits between the bars without forcing it over the tire then its a legal tire. Have the checker say .2 inches over the allowed measurements and if it touches both bars the you are out! Because your tires are oversized. Not rocket science folks it would take a whole 30 seconds to check both tire measurements go or no go gauges like they use for turbo measurements and 20 inch hitch checkers. |
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Tire checker
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Pull fan
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How difficult would it be to have a caliper style checker that has diameter arms on one side and width checker on the other side, one tool just like the hitch checkers with different drawbar heights at the scales. Its a simple go no go gauge and it would take a whole 30 seconds to check a set of tires. Really pretty simple!! |
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Re: Tire checker
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HP
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The width checker would have to have surfaces long enough to measure the width of 3 sets of bars. (V).
Can't just measure the width one V. Folks figured out how to cut opposing V's offset on each end,so the actual tread width of the tire is wider than each V alone. This is why we need cheaters to help us write rules, and build checking tools. Otherwise it takes a season or two to catch on. |
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Re: Tire checker
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Rules
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The tire will change with different width wheels and air pressure.
Most places are understaffed to start with. Knowing it is legal to start with makes things simple. |
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Re: Tire checker
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HP
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So, IMCA has "spec tires", and they STILL have to measure tire o.d. because, cheaters.
Spec tires are like box turbos. Everyone thinks they don't get messed with. Like spec fuel. |
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Re: Tire checker
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Team one
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So if you eliminate the tires that are too wide but can be cut to legal width, what does that leave ? Tires that are in spec and can only be cut narrower I guess what I’m saying is you can’t really widen a tire, you change change rim width yes but that certainly has its limits as well so by eliminating the Mitas, tires don’t really need to be checked at least for width. |
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Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
How is buying a tire that may be a little big, but cutting down to a legal size fundamentally any different than a tractor pulling up to the scale, being too heavy, then removing a couple weights to make the class weight?
In both cases, something was out of scope (tire size or tractor weight), and in both cases, if the excess (tread or ballast) is removed and the vehicle meets the requirement (circumference or vehicle weight), what's the issue at that point? Someone explain the logical inconsistency. |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Team one
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The simple answer is, it’s easy to police there is no need to measure a tire that is potentially too wide if you eliminate that potential. |
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Esdon should be banned!!!!
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Moderator Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
That may or may not be correct, but it's also BS. According to tractordata.com, an IH 1486 weights "12500 to 13670 pounds" from the factory. There are no NTPA tractor classes that weight that much. Therefore, using the same rationale: "The simple answer is, it's easy to police there is no need to weigh a tractor that is potentially too heavy if you eliminate that potential." If Red Line Fever has 1486 sheet metal, why take the chance on him being too heavy? Just ban the tractor due to it came too heavy from the factory. Isn't that the same thought process as banning a tire before it's cut to size? Both exceeded the scope of the rule when they left the manufacturer. .... Or, conversely, we could simply weigh the tractor to make sure it's 8000 lbs or less, and simply measure the cut tire(s) to verify the circumference if there is a question. |
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Re: Esdon should be banned!!!!
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Dan
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This isn’t rocket science! If every tire is 210 or below straight out of the mold, then every tire should be below 210 when cut. If you have tires that come out of a mold at 225 but cut a set down under 210 then every puller running said brand of tire would need to have their tires teched at every pull. Don’t think for a second that a puller wouldn’t buy a set of tires that are “legal” after being cut only to switch to a tire that’s over 210 at the next pull. I do agree that something should’ve been done as soon as they showed up at Louisville last winter but that just reaffirms my point that pullers will do anything to try to achieve a competitive advantage. Allowing puller to buy illegal tires and expecting them all to have tires cut under 210 is not realistic! |
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Re: Esdon should be banned!!!!
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Donk
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Well said Dan.
Somewhere along the way someone decided to lighten a tractor to get in a lighter class. Now everyone knew that tractor could not wiegh that thus we came to let's wiegh every tractor. Now it is almost 100% every vehicle is weighed at every pull. Why? We don't trust everyone to "modify" thier tractor to meet the specification? Do we really want to have to be checking the tires all the time? Am I wrong thinking that there is/was a proper way to address the specification issues? Is the correct answer do what you think the specification should be and catch me if you can? Then when you do I think you should change the specification? Really? Wait a second, if I address it through getting the specifications changed first everyone else knows and now I don't have the advantage. |
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Re: Esdon should be banned!!!!
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Team one
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I understand where you’re coming from but we also don’t see Esdon Lehn running at 13k pounds because his model of tractor would theoretically allow him to do so, he’s following the rules provided unlike the ones running out of spec tires, they know they are doing it and they were getting away with it until now, thank goodness we have scales at pulls to monitor the weight of the vehicles because by your logic there would be some pretty heavy equipment out there! |
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Re: Esdon should be banned!!!!
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Rules
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Organizations have rules for a reason. Some people like them and some people do not. Some people can understand that, and some cannot.
The rule has a diameter and width. The reason for this rule is to make tech easy. If it fits the rule before cut, then they don't have to worry about someone pushing the rule at some point. Everyone is always looking for an advantage. Just because one person cuts a tire to the legal size doesn't mean the next person will. |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Donk
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Sometimes logic explains the inconsistancies
Weight is always checked Tires dimensions are almost never checked |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Maybe there will be some deals on those tires for us brush pullers. |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Probably not just like every thing else some one will get accommodated |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Dollars and Cents
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This should eliminate courting Mitas as a future sponsor...... |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Why would you want to drive away a sponsor? Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Donk
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Being a reasonable person I can conclude that what ntpa did might not set well with mita. To the extent that I had already researched to see what they were about. I find that they are from Europe and they do indeed sponsor tractor pulling in Europe. I even researched European tractor pulling specifications and what I found is thier specifications are way more detailed and precise than any of ours.
That lead me to ask the question why did mitas do what they did? Yes Dick I agree what ntpa did and how they did it would not help getting thier potential sponsorship. Keep in mind ntpa only really said for 2023. So should we bend or change specifications for a potential sponsor? If their product does not meet the current specification as defined and because of that it creates a competitive advantage (whether percieved or real) for a puller wouldn't that drive an existing tractor pulling sponsor to buy/modify molds. How happy would they be? |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Paull
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My problem with this whole rule on the tires, is that - why now, WHY NOT WHEN THE TIRES FIRST SHOWED UP. Wasn't the rule in the book at the time the tires first came available. |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Roadkill
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Perhaps one should look back at how the tire widths (tread widths) got changed from 24.5" to 25 and 30.5 to 31... Maybe someone who brought a new tire in several years ago (5+?) didn't meet the rule and worked with NTPA to change it.... |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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.
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So Parkes comes out with a tire to compete with Firestone 24.5’s, visibly larger than the Firestone, some grumbling goes on but success was limited as was tire availability and problem fades away. Enter a new player in the game who has produced tire variations with size increases that they proudly showcased in their advertising ploys. Pro stock pullers frustrated with not being able to use the power they are making to the ground with Firestones are on the verge of wanting to switch to 30.5 tires but powers that be say no. Suddenly a new tire emerges sized like a 30 with 24.5 lettering on the sidewall, prostock show improves. Sidewall plies increase, show improves again and many sets of tires are sold. Another version is announced many tires are sold again, starting to seem like tire upgrades coming as fast as compressor wheel upgrades lol. Enter new tire manufacturer, pushes limit same as previous companies, tires aren’t really that successful in the beginning BUT THEN someone figured them out and started winning, many new tires sold, tires run all season and were ordered for 2023 season. Market share dropping fast from previous limit pusher. An announcement is made on wpi/ntpa Facebook page that Mitas tires under investigation. Follow up Facebook post by wpi/ntpa saying Mitas tire deemed illegal for competition. No explanation why, no one knows what the specs are or were. What fails and what passes, how it’s supposed to be measured and under what conditions they are to be measured at.
In my mind I guess I’m confused that a tire company as big as Firestone with their decades of experience didn’t know their 24.5/32 was only an 18.4x28 when compared to the new variants offered lmao. Oh and when wpi/ntpa announced their ruling on the Mitas tire guess who the first person was to like it 
|
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Donk
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Please tell me if I am wrong. No other associations other than ntpa and affiliates have the "uncut" as part of their documented specifications.
If that is the case none of the guys who did not pull at a ntpa event did anything wrong. Maybe when I went to double check that I was not looking in the right place. The guys that earned my respect in all this are the Outlaw pro stock guys who decided to a "gentleman's agreement" with-in their class to not run mitas for 2023. They are great examples of what pulling should be. |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Potential Problem
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So what happens if I live in Indiana and build a 5.0 Pro because the class seems to be gaining traction more towards the east. But then I think “What the heck? Let’s go to Rock Valley and see what I can do against the guys that have been running this class for years.” And I have my Mitas tires on? Am I illegal? Will I get thrown out? What if I Win? Will a bunch of people be mad at me because I didn’t abide by this supposed “gentleman’s agreement” that I was not apart of aware of?
It’s either legal or it’s not. Just wait till one of those guys has a chance to buy or borrow a set. Pullers are too competitive not to try anything that will give them an edge within the restrictions of the rule book. Also my 2 cents. Their’s a lot of Parks and India Pullers out there that got the corner of the bars sanded down to be in spec, and I don’t see anyone throwing them out. The rule is a bogus rule. Every other aspect of pulling has a limit in most classes, and most of those limits can easily be gone past(cubic inch, turbo size, fuel plunger size in some classes). I don’t see people saying “Let’s outlaw any motor that can be bored and stroked past 540 from the Light Pro Class because then we don’t have to worry about it!” It’s the puller’s responsibility to make sure that their tractor is legal at the track. That’s the way every other limitation is, and that’s the way most everyone agrees tires should be treated too. |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Donk
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So now you know. What's the answer? Just show up unannounced? Maybe you could just pick up the phone and call one of them or Outlaws You wanting to join thier class? Just com e pull once? I think they are reasonable guys. I agree with your last statement. I suspect it was about the cost. I suspect they just spent money on the newest greatest tire and did want to go down that rabbit hole until more was known or more time went by. They only said for 2023. I would hope pullers would "honor" their decision. I think they will. You seem to be a reasonable guy so if you were coming from indiana and never pulled with them before you would have talked to someone before you left. If the "honor" system doesn't work there is a whole bunch of other rules that fall apart. |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Potential Problem
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If the honor system works, why have a rule book? Why have a protest procedure? Everyone agreed to follow the rules when they joined the class.
At the end of the day, something is either illegal, or it’s not. If the main guys in the class agree to not buy Mitas tires, that’s fine. Good for them. But that does not in and of itself mean something is illegal. So if somebody shows up to the pull with Mitas tires on(my thing above was more of a hypothetical) what happens? Again, it’s not a rule that you can’t have them. You also seem like a great guy, this is nothing personal at all. Several of the other things you have posted above I heavily agree with. However, to say that pullers having “gentleman’s agreements” among their class is the way pulling is supposed to be, is just flat unrealistic. At the end of the day, Outlaw needs to say if they are legal or not. By the rules that currently exist in their rulebook(to the best of my knowledge) they are legal. If they don’t want them, they need to make a rule that says they are illegal(I think this would be a bad idea, but I’m also not an Outlaw member, so that is up to them). Pullers having unwritten rules will ultimately end in people getting mad at each other. I have seen it before |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Donk
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I didn't take anything personal and sure didn't intend anything personal. I thought we were just having a friendly discussion. What I meant about the "honor" system was as it relates to the rules. If not then all rules would need to be checked every time. That seems extreme. I think protest procedures are an attempt to provide a means to enforce the rules. I have to question thier effectiveness. Why? In my mind it would be like me as your supplier asking you as my customer to police my other customers. Insert association for supplier and puller as the customer. I hate to speculate about what was all said in the Outlaw prostock meeting as I was not there. I feel they are reasonable folks and will deal with it accordingly when or if what you said might occur. I agree that it would not be good to let thier "gentleman’s agreement" to linger out there forever for the reasons you brought up plus others. They put a time limit on it by saying for 2023. Why some of the other Outlaw classes saw the need to say they were allowed because I , like you thought that the rules that they already had would not make them illegal. Maybe it was to say if you have them come on over and pull with us??? Does a supplier have the right to refuse to accept a new customer? I think I see all kinds of examples where they do. |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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dot fannatic
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You seem to have the facts of the situation.....however the reason the Mitas got deemed illegal is that the option of having "custom made specs" is not currently available.........LOL |
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Re: Logic question- Please explain this to me
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Dmax 6.6
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Will there be Mitas tires allowed in other classes? |
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