Forrest Lucas said this March 10, 2009 08:01AM
what he said

taken from an story posted just today about the PPL pull in Indianapolis.


Lucas Oil President & CEO, Forrest Lucas, is an avid truck & tractor pulling enthusiast. “The last time I saw a tractor pull at the Fairgrounds in Indy was in the late fifties,” said Lucas. I was showing cattle there at the time and walked over to see the one lane, stock tractor pull. Now fifty years later, the Lucas Oil Pro Pulling Series is coming to town, with two lanes of the most action-packed truck & tractor pulling Indianapolis has ever seen. These machines are the biggest, baddest, loudest, most powerful tractors and pick-up trucks in the world. Bringing this professional pulling series to Indianapolis will be one of the proudest moments in my motorsports career.”

Truth in advertising: Close, but no cigar.
I think Mr.s Vories, Slagh, Bollinger, Diekman, Bauer, Archer, Shramek, Jostock, Purser, Biers, Loftice, Richardson and even Petro and Piper (and Stone if he ever makes a pulling cameo) may have a legit dispute with that statement.

With blower overdrive rules and turbine rules, the PPL mod class does fit with the NTPA Unlimited rules, but to say these are the "most powerful tractors" is, in fact, false. Nothing against Forrest trying to hype his series, but let's be honest here.
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 11, 2009 01:21AM
I think that you should quit crying and disputing which organization has the most power and be happy that he is trying to promote the sport. The sport has to continue to grow and gain new fan base for it to continue to grow, even more so during the current economic state of the country.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 11, 2009 02:37AM
Fricken get a life, would you expect him to say...."Our tractors are very powerfull, but I'm sure NTPA's are better and they have a better show." I mean please, hes trying to promote his organization give him a break. Frankly the way that a lot of you treat Mr. Lucas and whine and cry about stupid stuff if I were him I'd tell pulling to go "F" itself. I'd give my money to people that appreciate it.
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 11, 2009 03:51AM
I think he was kindof talking about tracor pullingin general. Tractor pulling is where you can see the MOST POWERFUL TRUCKS AND TRACTORS. Not jut NTPA. PPL has them too. I am kind of glad PPL doesn' havean Unlimited class to match NTPA because that would thin the mod out even mor and numbers would be lower for all mod classes.


Jesse Post
JP Pulling Productions

JP FacebookJP Youtube
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 11, 2009 05:04AM
As I said, I understand he's hyping his organization.

The statement in question may work with the Louisville crowd or monster truck fans, but the people on this forum know better.

He stretched the truth a little, and I just pointed it out.

As far as giving money to people who appreciate it, I live not far from the Indiana State Fairgrounds.
I may have considered going to the PPL pull there, but since he's seen fit to schedule over top of BG, not to mention his own member state who have had an event that same weekend for years, I may choose to give my own money to an organization that "appreciates" it's own dues paying member states.

btw, I'm not necessarily "anti" Forrest. I am a big drag racing fan, and appreciate his sponsorship of the LODRS, plus ownership or sponsorships of his own t/f team and Bruce Litton's operation. I guess things that concern me regarding pulling though, is how the PPL came to be in the first place; certain personalities in the PPL organization, and diluting both his and other series in scheduling (and his own member state), especially the third weekend of August this year.

btw #2- I'm not blind to the fact that WPI/NTPA has issues as well. I wish they would be able to get the Wrangler/Copenhagen Skoal type of sponsor to fund their entire series the way they used to be, or at least a group of sponsors that collectively would have a better package. Also, I think Jeff Hirt may have been treated unfairly at BG last year, if the version I heard of it was true.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2009 05:12AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 11, 2009 06:06AM
Let me preface this by saying that I prefer NTPA to PPL. However, I don't think your statements are valid. As far as Hamburg being the same time as BG, PPL is a totally different organization and should not have to schedule their pulls around NTPA. If BG truly wanted to be a "national championship" they should be non-sanctioned so that all pullers from every organization could pull without having to have an NTPA membership. By the way, NTPA scheduled over top of BG when BG was with another organization. Also, if BG is untouchable, as you seem to indicate, they shouldn't have to worry about any other pulls because everyone will be at BG anyway. Now, as far as PPL scheduling over their member states or other pre-existing pulls, lets look at NTPA and their member states. I will use Mid-South as an example. I'm in no way trying to pick on Mid-South, but they make a good foil to your argument. A few years ago, Stanford, KY came on board as a GN pull. That pull directly conflicted with Mid-South in Hopkinsville. Brandenburg came on board a few years ago. That pull directly conflicted with Tanner, AL. This year, according to Mid-South's schedule, they have 2WD scheduled at Brandenburg over top of Chapel Hill. They also have LSS at Bardstown over top of Brandenburg. There are also numerous regional national pulls that directly conflict with GN and state level pulls throughout the country. The point is...NTPA and their members schedule over top of each other frequently, so don't to make PPL out to be the bad guy when NTPA is doing the exact same thing.
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 11, 2009 06:39AM
Midsouth aint got Bardstown on the same date as Brandenburg. Bardstown is July 17-18, and Brandenburg is July 24-25. Midsouth scheduled twd for Brandenburg sat. nite only. That class is for midsouth trucks, that aint going to affect chapel hill one bit.
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 11, 2009 07:07AM
Yep, you are right on the Bardstown/Brandenburg deal. I looked at schedule wrong. Thanks for correcting me.
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 12, 2009 12:00AM
Original Michael,

Could the possible scheduling of Indianapolis be related to when the Indiana State Fair has the grandstands available?? Or should they have just forgotten the idea or resheduled everything for the whole fair just so it would not interfere with BG?? I think maybe if you would have looked at the big picture before you made a comment you might have been glad that there was another option for the fans and pullers. Remember that there is not anything going on at the two tiny spots this world truly revolves around.

Travis
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 12, 2009 01:07AM
You might want to look at "big picture" a little closer. Indy does not conflict with BG, Hamburg does.
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 12, 2009 01:37AM
The "Big Picture" is that tractor pulling has a relatively small fan base. Not every decision is based on when there is another pull, be it BG or Hamburg. I was pointing out that maybe Michael (as a fan or whatever)should be happy with another option to let our sport be a showcase. We all need to remember that every dollar spent, even if it is from the monster truck crowd, is another dollar in the sport. So again it isn't about the world revolving around one place it is about promoting the sport.

Travis
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Re: The big picture March 12, 2009 02:19AM
SNT, as Greg K stated, the Indiana State Fair pull does not conflict with Hamburg. I'm going to get a little bit smart alecky, but it's illustrating a point. Btw, your argument about expanding the sport is good, but misplaced. It's not like PPL scheduled a Champions Tour in Phoenix, AZ the same weekend as BG. They scheduled a pull that has been around for years, just at a different time. So, they are not going to a new area to expand the sport, they are intentionally pulling against the largest pull in the nation, and also going against their own member state's longstanding pull that same weekend, located an hour or so away. Please tell me how this is good for the sport, especially in western NY? Please tell me in the big picture how this is a good thing for the Empire State Pullers.

Being that you are looking at the big picture, you surely must be aware of what the locals think, eh? Since you have the big picture in mind, you must realize that both Jake and Richard Morgan (the founders of this board... you knew that) live in the greater Buffalo/western NY area.

You are aware, looking at the big picture, that Jake has predicted Pike may well outdraw Hamburg, since the 2 events typically draw a lot of the same fan base. Also, the monster truck types, as you know because you see the big picture, are already familiar with pulling in the Buffalo area, as the Hamburg pull has been a mid week success for years.

However, in case you are not aware of these things, perhaps you should ask ESP members, and pulling fans from western NY what they think about having 2 overlapping pulls the same date. If I was a fan in western NY, and couldn't make BG, I think I would rather be able to see both Pike and Hamburg (like in years past) rather than choose one or the other.

Also, looking at the big picture, PPL did not schedule the super farrms or prostocks. BG normally has plenty of those. Since you see the big picture, you knew that. However, PPL also scheduled the unlimited supers the same day. Unlike super farms or pro stocks, there are not plenty of those.

So, in essence, the "next level" has cut one of the better paydays for the majority of their unlimited supers, since they will now only be able to pull at one of the events instead of both.

Also, as you are a big picture expert, you have heard of a pull from Wisner? I didn't mention this because Nebraska is a lot farther from BG than Hamburg is, but keeping the U/SS in mind, Wisner has catered to the USS tractors in the Outlaws area recently. Guys like Dennis Johnson, Haugs, Schroeder, etc. Guys who also run PPL. Now, either they run close to home, or travel 1,000 miles to Hamburg. I am aware Outlaws changed the weight of their USS class, but I would guess most of the guys can still make weight.

Hence, not only is this schedule affecting PPL's own member state, it is affecting some of their own pullers, and also Outlaws as well.


I'd say, looking at the big picture, it's not so much a matter of not scheduling when your competitor has a pull, as it is looking at the big picture and scheduling smarter. NTPA could schedule a SS open hook over Henry, for example, but they won't.
Finally, while BG may not be the be-all and end-all of the sport, it IS the summer marquis event. To use an example, the 2 main drag racing orgs are NHRA and IHRA (ADRL is really apples to oranges). IHRA "could" schedule a race on Labor Day weekend, but they won't.

That's the big picture as I see it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2009 02:33AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: The big picture March 12, 2009 03:00AM
Orginal whoever,

Look at NTPA schedule (its highlighted to help you out) and you will see that they just booked Unlimited Supers in Saluda, SC on top of PPL Tour event in Hillsboro, WI that has Unlimited Supers. Guess the local Alkys will have a good pay day in the South. Sorry to bust that theory you had going.

Last time I knew, the Erie County Fair (Thats Hamburg) owned the facility and made their own scheduling decisions. I don't think PPL or any sanctioning body can ram down their throat what they want and when they want it. You must have the impression that PPL owns all these facilities.

Try promoting your own event and get back to us on how you do. Your attitude might change.
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Re: The big picture & unlimited SS March 12, 2009 03:26AM
NTPA won't do what? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Orginal whoever,
>
> Look at NTPA schedule (its highlighted to help you
> out) and you will see that they just booked
> Unlimited Supers in Saluda, SC on top of PPL Tour
> event in Hillsboro, WI that has Unlimited Supers.
> Guess the local Alkys will have a good pay day in
> the South. Sorry to bust that theory you had
> going.

Yes, I see now that you pointed it out they just made the change. Probably shouldn't have done that.

> Last time I knew, the Erie County Fair (Thats
> Hamburg) owned the facility and made their own
> scheduling decisions. I don't think PPL or any
> sanctioning body can ram down their throat what
> they want and when they want it. You must have the
> impression that PPL owns all these facilities.

You are using a straw man argument (look up what that means).
It is irrelevant to the point I am making who owns the facility.

True that the sanctioning body can't ram down their throat when they will have their own pull, but they absolutely have control over whether they will sanction a pull on a given date. Since you brought up Saluda, NTPA absolutely could have said they would not be able to sanction that class for that particular weekend. I believe there have been a lot of times when NTPA has had a promotor contact them about having a GN pull on a given weekend, but they said "NO" because there were already preexisting dates for those times.

Again, please tell me how is PPL helping their own member state by sanctioning a pull over top of them an hour away, when the member state pull has had that date for years?? Nobody seems to be willing to answer that one.

Side note- regarding the unlimited SS class, if you counted all the touring USS tractors, there may be 15; some places like North Carolina has a couple more than can show up, but what I don't like about PPL and NTPA scheduling this class at the same time is you're setting up a scenario where each pull may have 7-8 of them. Do that too many times and the promotors will discontinue the class. If we ever get to the point where there are 25-30 uss tractors to split up, who will realistically follow a circuit, then yes, scheduling over top doesn't matter so much.

However, we are not at that point.
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Re: The big picture & unlimited SS March 12, 2009 03:51AM
Ok call me crazy but how is Forrest scheduling over top of bowling green when Indy is Aug 8 and 9 and Bowling Green is the third week in August
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Re: The big picture & unlimited SS March 12, 2009 04:56AM
The scheduling issue isn't Indy and BG, it's Hamburg and BG.

and, since it was brought up, I guess for U/SS you could add Hillsboro and Saluda



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2009 04:57AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: The big picture & unlimited SS March 12, 2009 05:10AM
I think the point "The Original Michael" was making is: PPL scheduled Hamburg against Bowling Green as well as against Pike (Pike is about 45 miles away and ESP is a PPL member state).

Since… PPL decided to schedule Hamburg against BG…

"The Original Michael" has decided not to support PPL at Indy.

I don’t want to speak for "The Original Michael", but I think he’s simply stating that he won’t support Indy because he doesn’t like how PPL handled the Hamburg event.

I think it’s just a comment about "The Original Michael" and his views regarding the ethics of PPL.

Let me give one example from my life… I don’t really like how Walmart treats it’s suppliers… so I try to avoid Walmart and shop local when possible. I don’t hate Walmart, I still shop there from time to time, but if I can get it elsewhere I don’t buy it at Walmart. Walmart is not evil, but I think some of their business practices hurt this country on the long run.

"The Original Michael" is just saying he prefers to shop elsewhere for his tractor pulling needs because he doesn’t like some of the business decisions that PPL has made (which may hurt the ULSS class and Hamburg in the long run)..

To "The Original Michael":
If I misrepresented what you meant to say please feel free to correct me.


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: The big picture & unlimited SS March 12, 2009 10:00AM
Well, it may be merely his opinion, but his methodology doesn't pass the sniff test. He's using the scenario in Hamburg as a knock on PPL and thus basing his opinion of the PPL on it. His pride on this point seems to flatten when the NTPA does the same thing elsewhere though.

If PPL doesn't schedule Hamburg, then someone else will and it would probably be NTPA because they themselves haven't shown any aversion to doing such things like that; and if NTPA doesn't do it I doubt Erie County is going to move their fair date because no one wants to step on Pike's pull - so we'll all just loose a pull in the end.

None of the competitors at either of these pulls will have a gun to their head when they pull in the gate so I don't know what everyone's worried about. Hamburg is a Champions Tour event paying Champion's Tour money, if you've precommitted and want the points you'll be at Hamburg.

As to correcting Forrest Lucas on his comments about horsepower - that was just petty plain and simple.
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Re: The big picture & unlimited SS March 12, 2009 07:29PM
Thank you Jake.

You articulated what I was trying to say very well! Great Wal-Mart comparsion. I feel the same way.

I know this will never happen unless or until the next generation of organizational leaders arrive on the scene, but wouldn't it be great if Outlaws, WPI, and PPL could do an IRL/CART type of unification with standardized rules, and perhaps either one master national schedule, or at least semi-coordinated schedules?
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Re: The big picture March 12, 2009 04:02AM
I can tell you as a former promoter that the associations DO tell you what date you will be or they will drop you like a bad habit if you don't move to the weekend that they want you at. This happened 3 years ago with Outlaws and a series of pulls in Iowa and Nebraska. We were told to change weekends or they would drop us. The pulls had been had the same weekend for over 40 years at this particular venue at that particular weekend and we had to change because the president of the association didn't talk to the secretary about which weekends were which before he went to the state fair conventions. So in all fairness, Yes the big associations do have the say or else the local pull/fundraiser will not happen at all !!!!
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 12, 2009 01:06PM
Seriously, do you have nothing better to do besides pick people, associations, groups, anything and everything apart?
I'm sure you've NEVER said anything that wasn't 100% true in your ever loving life...
Just sayin'...
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 12, 2009 08:33AM
Funny, I was at Indy in the late 80's and I saw two lanes of pulling and the most powerful pulling.
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 12, 2009 11:59AM
Your skills in persuasion seriously lack any expertise . You are blatantly pro blue & gold stripes and apparently think your argument is capable of having two sides, which really shows your ignorance. The debate about NTPA & PPL usually derates itself to who can pee the biggest stream, which gets really old quick . So T..O..M.. why don't you do yourself a favor ( and we will all benefit) and stay loyal to NTPA because PPL dosen't need any narrow minded holierthanthou types. PPL pulling is way too much fun for that!Winking
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 13, 2009 02:01AM
Being from Indiana, and watching pulls at the fairgrounds, both the old Super Pull and on the outdoor tracks during the fair. I'm just happy that the fairboard has changed their minds and allowed pulling to come back to the State Fair.
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Re: Forrest Lucas said this March 14, 2009 02:46PM
Personally, I feel the NTPA is slowly dieing. You can see it anytime you go to a regional pull or even BG. It's no secret that the NTPA has to get a real sponsor, like a beer or tobacco company.

The NTPA has all the history and what not, but the PPL has the numbers, and the money.

Also, both organizations do unethical practices, ask around, many pullers have been stiffed by the NTPA. And hey, even the OSTPA can let you in on the NTPA and how they operate...And the PPL is defiantly out to get the NTPA. Sometimes it seems Forest is even malicious in his ways, just to stick it to the NTPA.

Both bodies also go over top of member states, ALL THE TIME. The NTPA has been doing it for years, and its no shock that the PPL is doing it.

All in all, with the economy sucking so bad, the NTPA is on borrowed time. Either they need to get someone with money to back them, or they will lose the PS, ULSS, 4x4, and Mod classes to the PPL completely.
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WHY WONT FORREST LUCAS LET ALL CLASSES PULL March 15, 2009 09:39AM
One question I have for Forrest Lucas and PPL is why he doesn't host all classes of truck and tractors at his pulls. For example, the pull he has at his track he has everything but SuperFarm. WHY? PPL have superfarms listed as one of their classes and why isn't everyone invited? Also the new hook at the Indiana State Fair there again is no superfarm class schedule. Have of the PPL Super Farm Tour Champions are from Indiana. You think in their own state they would allow them to pull. So everyone gripes about superfarm, i know, but these guys put there money into these tractors just like everyone else does and some should respect that! I wish that Lucas or Chastain would explain this to all of us out here wondering.
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Re: WHY WONT FORREST LUCAS LET ALL CLASSES PULL March 15, 2009 02:07PM
Well for BOTH of you that are wondering.
Scheduling conflicts may have something to do with it.
Have you thought to look at other groups schedules? The Chastains, Schriers,Roberts, et.al. of the pulling world are astute enough to do this. Sometimes for the pullers benifit, and sometimes not.
And just maybe they couldn't get the pillow and sleeping bag vendors to come sell at the show, and you can't put on a pull with the SF class, and not have pillow vendors. It is the LAW !!!!!!!
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