John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 10:45AM
On a john deere 4430. When the main pump is removed will the trans pump be able to handle the steering ,brakes,and dif lock functions. I removed my front pump and ran the return side from the releif housing back to the where the main pump feed the dash at the junction block before it feed the rock shaft. Hope that made sense. Is there any check valves that need removal? Should pressure be increased?
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 11:08AM
Not really. The trans pump is an open center system, steering & brakes are closed center. The trans pump supplies pressure for the clutches and feeds the main hyd pump, what oil is left lubricates the clutch & trans.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 11:17AM
It's been discussed on here before, try doing a search, I remember seeing it before.
The quick version is to use a steering valve from a garden tractor that has 4 ports, brake valve from 2030 or similar tractor and forget about using the diff lock.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 11:30AM
No the main pumps feeds everything on the high pressure system.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 11:35AM
This one has a metering pump
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 11:55AM
If I remember right the trans pump will flow around 9gpm,updated hi volume around 11gpm.more than enough flow to handle everything.the problem being is getting the pressure high enough not to blow out the filter housing gasket or the filter canister itself.personally I think it can be done but is it worth effort.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 11:22AM
If it feeds the main pump i would assume it could handle the other functions as the main pumps primary function is the rock shaft?
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 11:28AM
What you are saying is you went from trans pump outlet that feeds main pump-to the junction at RH side of clutch housing and capped off where it goes to rockshaft housing but it is still feeding into the attenuator going into the brake and steering system.Does it have poppet steering valve or metering pump?Not sure about this one,let me think awhile.Might need to get JDTECH on this as well.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 11:34AM
Yes i went directly to the attenuator. I went directly to where the main pump would have feed. ( at the junction block a small line feed up to the brakes/steering this is where i sent the trans pump line, that would have feed the main pump)
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 11:40AM
it will never work. for two reasons. you need more than 400 psi to work steering and brakes. and when u steer or brake it will take gpm away from the perma clutch and quad range.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 12:04PM
So the small 3/8 line feeding from the main pump at the junction block carries that pressure for those functions?
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 01:17PM
The large line from the main pump to the junction block supplies the 2200 psi for your steering, brakes, and diff lock. The small bleed line is vented to the reservoir. The hose that was connected to the top routed oil to the cooler and returned to the lube circuit. If you connect the pump supply to the junction block directly, you will most likely max at about 90 psi because your cooler relief valve is open constantly. Perma clutch will work fine. Lube circuit is overloaded. At max rpm you will most likely blow the filter or twist the hex shaft off.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 01:33PM
Wtf! Well i guess the dang thing going back on. Do i really need the cooler anymore though? She never gonna farm again, i cant imagine the fluid getting real hot
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 01:52PM
well my wtf thoughts are put the pump back on and eliminate the cooler,pump only takes away about 10hp when used.Not as much as people think.JMO
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 02:13PM
i would agree with kevind. The cooler can be eliminated, and you will need some form of pressure compensated pump similar to the original. A 1000 series out of a utility could be used in place of the original. would save a little weight. As far as hp, when not using the steering or brakes the pump would require less than .5 hp, especially if you back the pressure down. HP=gpmXpsi/1714
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 09:46PM
Should i run the line on the pump that went to the cooler back to the resevoir, or just cap it? Thanks everyone for the help
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 01:32PM
Ok so why are you so determined to run this setup.Like I said it can be done but there are other ways that maybe easier.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 01:36PM
I wanted the main pump gone, weight, was hoping to make it a cleaner simpler set up, already removed the rock shaft,was hoping to eliminate the pump without much hassle.i not sure how much the pumped taxed the engine thought i could use the trans pump, what are your thoughts
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 02, 2014 02:37PM
ya the trans pump will not run the other componets i feel the best way to solve the issue is to install a helms pump for steering along with a cylinder or if it is the old style it may work hooking to the lines up front but i have not tried it myself and then install a set of master cylinders or a mechanical brake valve from a 6615 series or a 5000 series tractor and return the transmission pump oil back to the top of quad for lube.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 03, 2014 12:29PM
I have a 4430 quad that I have ran for three years with no front pump. I have a 2940 brake valve out of a cab tractor it mounted easily and a four port steering valve out of a 318 lawn mower, I have bought three of them on ebay now for around $120 each. Just hooked the feed line to the original front pump to the steering valve and the return off of it back to sump. There is something about the steering in the front ballister there was a serial break on that mine was a two port system so I just hooked the steering valve to that. I ran a pressure gauge and never saw a drop when steering. It will turn hard when stopped like a rack and pinnion does. That system has worked very well for me. Now I am switching to a 4020 back half and will be converting over to the helm pump.
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 04, 2014 01:19AM
You have an early 30 series tractor with the poppet style steering.. It has.. had the big steering valve.. The same basic system used on the 4020-10's..
I know some have talked about using they lawn mower pump and steering valve.. but didn't know how it would work with stock size steering cylinder..
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 04, 2014 02:52PM
Worked awsome no more broken front pump brackets and less stress on the crank trying to overspeed a hydraulic pump
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 05, 2014 10:39PM
hey, Barncat, do you plan on running that 4430 in central New York anytime this year???
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 06, 2014 05:55PM
It will all depend if I can get a transmission to hold up on it and also how the summer goes on the farm, we are headed to harrisburgh with 44 specal though
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Re: John deere hydraulics March 06, 2014 10:53PM
cool, good luck down there with the 44 special, hope you get the barncat together for the summer,would like to see it around here , way too many red ones, need a green to keep them honest,ha ha.
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