03:59:15pm, Tuesday, May 07, 2024
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common rail injection on a puller
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new era
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Whats everyone's input on running a common rail engine in a tractor? Or should i convert it to run a p pump? How hard is it to have some one crack the computer to do a little tunning on the common rail. Motor in question is a cummins from a semi factory aet at 450hp |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Don't think you can...
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I could be wrong, but I don't think CR's are allowed in tractor pulling. You'll have to check your rules. There are just too many people against it and the cost would be crazy, but maybe one day you'll be able to tune a pulling tractor with a laptop. I'm not even sure if you could plumb enough CP3s together to deliver enough fuel anyway. Best bet would be a P pump. Tuning wise though, TS and Steinbauer make chips/tuners for semis and tractors. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Registered: 03/31/2009 Posts: 309 |
Im pretty sure you are way off base with your statement. You should do some research on the subject. If allowed to run a CR, you should go on competitiondiesel.com and do a search. There is some good info on there and some garbage. IMO, the money will be the same but tuning will be far superior |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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OK
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Please tell me how I'm wrong. Educate but as far as I know, in the US, there are no pulling tractor CRs out there. Not trying to come off as rude but curious. Trucks are a completely different story and have a tuned truck myself but not for competition. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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new era
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Its just cause everyone is stuck in the old style of pulling. The tunning option for computer controlled engines is way more precise. you can set it to run different classes with just a laptop |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Puller892
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There are other pumps out there other than a cp3. Like for instance a cp9. There is a guy in Holland I believe that is working on an electronic common rail setup for a v12 detroit. This setup will be capable of putting out more fuel than the best sigma pump and will be able to make a lot more power. Unfortunately as Don't think you can stated, many rule books will read that a computer cannot control any function of the engine. There are classes where it is legal, but not many. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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new era
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Ok so if its proven to work over seas why is it still being regulated here in the states? Oh wait cause then JD and IH wouldn't be in the top spots any more. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Registered: 07/11/2008 Posts: 326 |
I would don't think that is true.. Green and Red would still be in the same place.. (maybe the 8.3L Cummins might have a good jump.) All have HPCR systems that will work.. Almost everyone is using a Bosch or a Denso system... It just takes someone to spend the time and $$ to get it setup... Most of the work as been done by the DMax and Cummins Common Rail guys already... Someeone just needs to get a program Like EFI Live for the Ag Systems... Some are already tuning the factory programs.. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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new era
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Our rules say nothing about computer controlled engines. Just A- pump and P-pump rules. Theres a couple places on the net that can reflash a ECM ecmperformance.com and illinoisdynocenter. Anyone ever use them? |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Controlled Explosion
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I had a fascinating conversation with Brent Long about this. He thinks you can make more power with a diesel than an alky using this technology. But it would take wild multi stage injectors. Maybe time for the rules to catch up with the technology? |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Posts: 513 |
There has been a 5.9 Common Rail Cummins put into a 706 and one into a Cockshutt that still pulls. Those engines already have all the tuning available to do whatever you want. You can get a stand alone ecm and tune whatever you want. I think a lot of it has to do with fear of the computer, and that it's not a screwdriver.. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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new era
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Wireless monitoring? How is a (ECM) engine control module going to send a wireless signal? Its hook with a harness to the engine just like any vehical now days. people are not hacking in to there neighboors truck with a wireless router from a computer now days are they? Wake up old pullers its the future of the sport its coming.No more blown up engines or catasratafic engine failure because guess what that new fangdangled (Ecm) just monitored the engine and shut it down before it had time to blow up saving you a ton of money. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Registered: 07/14/2011 Posts: 59 |
Hi, I think people shouldn't be afraid of electronic fuel injection. It's the way things are done now. Question: If pulling had gotten big back in the days before turbos were factory installed, would pullers have banned them because it was a new, "tricky" technology? The cars we drive have had EFI since the early '80s. Heck, the snowmobiles we drive have had EFI available since the '90s. And now, factory built tractors are coming with EFI. So, I think pulling needs to start opening up the sport for those who want to give it a go. Maybe start with a single class; maybe a Limited Pro EFI or something along those lines. Heck, NASCAR finally "got with the program" (pun intended) and switched to EFI and the world didn't come to an end. Also, re: ecm 1. All vehicles already have traction control... it's called the "throttle" and a driver that knows how to use it properly. 2.The only way to "control weight during a run" is to have a way for the ECM to operate a mechanical system that can move weight front to back, or side to side, and that is already illegal. 3. Wireless control? Possibly, but what is a guy watching from the sidelines going to be able to do while the tractor is going down the track? The ECM itself can process information and react to that info way faster than a guy on the sidelines could... Also, the only way you can control the ECM with a wireless control is if you set up the ECM for wireless control. 4. Really? How in the world is a fuel control ECM going to take control of the vehicle and steer it around the bad spots on the track? 5. The only way to take the driver out of the equation is to make a fully remote controlled vehicle and that would take a heck of a lot more the just a fuel injection controller ECM. And, as far as tech inspection, it would be pretty easy to spot all the sensors, cameras, sliding weight devices, etc. that it would take to do the things you mentioned! Now, it could be that you were being a bit tongue-in-cheek with your comments, but really people, let's not bind ourselves to days gone by. I think the sport should start phasing in the modern technology. Later ....... |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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Most Diesel ecm's have the option for wireless imput just as the ag tractors do with field monitoring systems that will read soil types and moisture with the ability to be programmed to apply braking from one to the other just as it does in your traction control works in the new vehicles and over the road trucks. This could also be done with water injection being increased to take power away or to lean it out for more rpm. From the side line the tune up could be changed or altered. The only way it would work is for a ecm to be developed for pulling only and all motors would have the same fuel injector type that would run on the same signal and use the same crank or cam sensors. Say for example Cat vs Cummins today works differently Cat ecm controls engine rpms while cummins controls fuel for engine speed. One system is capable of producing a lot more than the other and its not what I'm sure you are thinking. The common oem ecm has a lot more capability than most people realize they can do as much or more than the common laptop you just have to activate it's functions. There are none of the ecm's today that are just a fuel control ecm. They only one that was just a fuel control as you call it would be the pac system as one the 2000 model cummins and it still as some tricks that its capable of. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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ECM tuning is not hard we have been doing it for a long time You do not need a big name diesel shop to get it done. You do not need a aftermarket add on box. Do I want to see pulling go to this? No. There are to many things that a ecm can do. 1 Traction control. 2 Can be made to control weight while in a run. 3 very easy for a competitor to have wireless control from sideline. 4 Monitor track while in a run ( avoid dry spots or soft spots). 5 Totally taking the driver out of controlling the machine. Not to mention Teching these. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Posts: 513 |
They've had all this custom tuning on duramaxs for years now, and I've never heard of any instances of anything that you've mentioned, unless none of that matters in a 4x4 class.. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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It has been happening where do you think we ran in to it! You might need to do more looking around. Finding the few that are doing it are keeping it very hush hush. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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You can in GN DSS. But you know if someone did R&D(which a lot don't want to do because it's easier to call someone) and started finishing well, it would be banned. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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new era
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Does any one have the software that cummins uses to 're program the ECM? |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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Yep |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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new era
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Ecm How do I go about getting a copy of it for my personal use? |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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Needa subscription for calterm program from cummins. Then write a efc file for you needs |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Anonymous User
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Ecm do you know if a iSX ecm can be used on a isl engine? I am going to have someone reflash some parameters in it. Thing is my engine doesnt have a ecm with it when I got it . Cummins said I need part number 4921776 ecm. But will other ecm work |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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No they have a different systems they are not compatible. Cummins places different driver hardware that would have to physically be changed with in the ecm. It will not allow it to accept the ISL file. It would cost more to have that changed internally that it would be to buy a used ISL ecm. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Anonymous User
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Is there a CAT HEUI injector that is made to be compadable with the High Performance ECM? Or is there anyone that can re-work a CAT HEUI injector to perform properly if an ECM is Re-programmed? |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Posts: 513 |
Some of the Powerstroke 7.3/6.0 performance shops might be able to help you out with HEUI performance, since the PSD is HUEI, or could at least point you in the right direction possibly. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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There are some marine Injectors that Cat used that would work with some high performance programs. And there are some shops that can improve the performance of a HEUI but they are limited as of now because of no aftermarket parts like increased plunger size, they can increase nozzle size and balance injectors for matched delivery. When you increase the plunger size the hydraulic controller would need modification to increase pressures even more some current HEUI's can push 28000 psi of pressure when you increase the plunger it will take more hydraulic volume and a injector that is really modified right now it would be really expensive be about like buying a sigma for each hole to have them made if you can find someone. Don't get me wrong there is a lot to be had with the stock parts but it would be very limited. And the custom Cat HEUI injectors have nobody jumping to build them because of what it would cost and current patents. Witch Cat are you looking at 3116, C9? I may be able to come up with a marine part number if it is a motor that was used in marine. Cat has put out some in there experimental motors but getting ahold of them is hard for most get destroyed. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Anonymous User
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ECM the engine is a 3126 serial prefix 7AS |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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Might look at a 10R0781 thats a reman number and oem is a 222-5966 that was used in a 3126B marine sometime there is a difference and some are not. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Anonymous User
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ok thanks ECM |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Anonymous User
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Rudy looks like they dont have a big enough fuel pump to keep up with the injectors and common rail pressure |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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There are many things that could be, oil temp, wt of oil, weak signal from crank or cam sensor causing it to derate. When you start cranking power a lot of things happening there could be crank distortion and if there running a crank sensor trigger for ecm it can loose a signal when the start flexing the gap the sensors runs on is very important. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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In the Netherlands there is a Farm Stock tractor equipped with common rail technology.
It is called Dynamite and it is a Case International 1455. They run in the 7936lbs super sport class. The have a rev limit of 2700rpm. [www.stpharskamp.nl] They are still struggling to make it work good every run. Seen the qualifying run go awesome and then in the final it is all gone. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Anonymous User
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Also looking for a ecm cummins part # 4921776 if anyone could help not looking to spend ebay price as I want to have it reprogramed |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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We have bought ecm's here before. [www.vanderhaags.com] |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Registered: 03/31/2009 Posts: 309 |
There are many performance shops that have EFI Live and can tune the engine. Alot have already done the leg work and probably have what you need |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Anonymous User
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EFILive is only available on the late 5.9s and through the 6.7 tho |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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ecm
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Correct and it will do nothing for a Cat or ISL cummins that they where referring to. |
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Re: common rail injection on a puller
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Anonymous User
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Correct |
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