02:04:38pm, Sunday, May 19, 2024
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Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Nebraska Pull Fan
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What has happened to the Nebraska Bush Pullers. Just got off the website and only 11 pulls in Nebraska this year. Been a fan for years and have seen the numbers of pullers go down the last 2 or 3 years is that why they are not having many pulls. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Nebraska puller
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Should have worked with Outlaws a couple of years ago when they made an offer to help Nebraska Bush. Instead you have some bad leadership that did not like Outlaws and ruined it for everyone else. It is slowly going down hill each year until it dies or changes leadership and goes in with Outlaws so everyone can work together with rules and the Nebraska promoters. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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maybe
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Outlaws should change to go along with ntpa and ppl? It would help all three instead of being all inclusive. Just food for thought :-) |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Anonymous User
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the image explains alot as far as the idea of the outlaws doing anything for NBPI. Ask the people who run the circuit and hit 60% or so hooks the points money is nice. As far the number of pulls being down for the summer there are only so many days in the month of July. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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outsider
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No dog in this fight but If you want a pulling club to succeeds you are better off to work with a larger club that is close and have your rules match there's. Trying to be one off or a one upper will only hurt the smaller club. History always repeats it self. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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But you just described Outlaws ................. not Bush |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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outsider
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That make sense! Didn't realize outlaws where hurting for pulls or turning pulls over to the what ever they call it series. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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you don't get it
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I think you aren't the outsider you claim to be 
Outlaws has the rule set that doesn't jive with most of the rest of the country. It's a fact and they seem to have plenty of pullers that are ok with that and good for them it gives their pullers a place to be competitive and put on a show. Their is a place for everybody in pulling no sense in bashing another org for operating as they see fit. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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trouble
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Id drive 300 miles to go to a ppl hook. Would walk across the street to watch the outlaws. Follow outlaw rules=everyone detune your tractor. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Pllnfn
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Well, I will answer by saying that a couple places that had good pulls apparently aren't having pulls this year. You take Lincoln, Pickrell and Seward off the schedule-- three places that had a great turnout of pullers in my opinion-- and that is going to make a difference. I don't know why they aren't having pulls this year, but I doubt that it has anything to do with the Bush pullers. When the Temptation tractors and some of those Missouri boys bring their toys to a Bush hook, there's really not a better place to see pulling in Nebraska. The Outlaws have good pullers too but you see the same guys all summer from Ravenna to Wisner (unless they are broke). |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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TOP GUN
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I think I brought this up before. If NBPI had 25 hooks, some would say way too many, now with 14 total hooks, not enough. This is a two way street. We are with a larger club (PPL) and we can pull with one of the series to add hooks. A couple are Mound City and Unionville, MO, which were a NBPI pull, so I still call it our pull. I will say there are other types of shows for fairs that a couple of previous pulls took instead of us, hope they see what they lost in not having a tractor pull and call us back. With a couple new hooks this year, I wouldn't say we died yet. As far as ruining it for everyone, that is only an opinion. I am looking for a good year. Darin |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Heardit
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I think the pickrell pull got moved to Eagle Nebraska and Will be the very first Lucas Oil Pro Pulling League Champions tour event in the state of Nebraska, its on the PPL website in Late June, looks like the big boys are coming since it will be a points hook for the prostocks and 4 x 4's. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Anonymous User
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Nebraska Puller- I have a question for you. When was Bush contacted by Outlaws? |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Outlaw & Bush puller
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Here is the letter sent out by Outlaws trying to work with Bush to help them get more numbers and keep some of the pulls in Nebraska.
DATE: 12/05/11 TO: Nebraska Bush Members, Nebraska Outlaw Members, & OTTPA Board Members FROM: Doug Roberts, OTTPA President This past month I have been contacted by 2 Nebraska Bush Promoters, and just this past week another Nebraska Bush Promoter called about what it cost to have an Outlaw pull at their event. It takes a lot of different things to make a pulling event successful for these promoters, and probably the most important is a good turnout of vehicles in each class, followed by some different vehicles for the fans to see from year to year instead of seeing the same vehicles, year after year. At the OTTPA Banquet in Omaha, NE, and since then, I have been contacted by several competitors that are both Nebraska Bush members & Outlaw members asking if we could work out something together. I told them I would give it some thought and respond before the Nebraska Bush Pullers meeting, They furnished me the Nebraska Bush membership list. The list shows 86 members and 53 pulling vehicles of which 60 members and 43 vehicles are from Nebraska. Outlaws has 238 members and 186 pulling vehicles of which 65 members and 44 vehicles are from Nebraska. When I got on the Nebraska Bush website and looked at the 2011 events, and results there were basically 12 sessions of pulling in Nebraska (Arlington, Pickrell, Seward, Diller, Pierce, Leigh, Beatrice, Wayne, Crete, Lincoln, West Point, and Leonardville, KS. The first two on the schedule in Pattonsburg, MO and King City, MO I did not count in my figures. Only 5 Nebraska tractors went to Pattonsburg and only 3 Nebraska tractors went to King City. When I added up the results this is what the classes averaged at these 12 events. Super Farm – 9.5, LSS – 5.1, MOD – 8.5, USS – 4.3, LPS – 5.6, for an event average of 33 vehicles per event. With a purse of $2000 per class paying out 7 places x 5 classes most all these events had a $10,000 purse. The average cost per vehicle at this purse is $303. With about 5 minutes time allotted per hook, it will be an expensive entertainment value for these small event promoters. Nebraska Bush charges full purse, even if the classes are not full. 6 times there were only 3 in a class, 8 times there were only 4 in a class, 8 times there were only 5 in a class, and 2 times there were only 6 in a class. Outlaws in 2011 had 10 sessions of pulling in Nebraska (Ravenna-2, Gibbon, Carroll, Scribner, Weeping Water, Wisner-3, Grand Island). A promoter can pick 3 Outlaw classes, for example LSS, SF, LPS with a purse of $4000 each paying out between 12 to 15 places x 3 classes for a total of $12,000 per event. The average last year for these 3 classes was 14.5, 15.8, and 13.7 for a total of 44 vehicles per event. That averages out to $272 per tractor which is $31 less per tractor, or 5 minutes of entertainment value ($372 per hour) If a Outlaw class is not full, promoter gets to keep purse on places not paid out. Beside the cost, add in the fact that a lot of new vehicles will be at their event, and you can see why promoters are looking for a change. On the other hand if Nebraska Bush Pullers and Outlaws could go together and co- sanction some of these events, and it just adds 5 vehicles per class above the Outlaw average x 3 classes that would be 60 hooks for $12,000 which figures out to $200 per hook. That is 1/3 less than what they are paying per hook now with Nebraska Bush and the show would be twice as long. This is about the same average per vehicle cost we have at our big events like Wisner, NE. when these classes average 18 to 20 vehicles or more. In 1998 I had just been elected Outlaw President and Dennis Goodwin called me about ITPA (Iowa Tractor Pulling Association) joining forces with Outlaws. At that time Outlaws only had 10 events and plenty of open dates. Iowa was a charter member of NTPA, but were not getting any help from NTPA with vehicle count unless it was a Regional 3 event in Iowa, and a lot of their events were having less and less vehicles, in turn less and less fans, and they were starting to lose some of these events for this reason. The membership to join NTPA was getting higher & higher each year and they were not getting as much in return. Places like Hinton, Iowa were down to 25 vehicles and less than 40 hooks as classes like the Modified tractors were hooking twice at different weights, same with the Super Stock classes. Some classes only had 3 to 6 vehicles in them. Total purse was about $8,000 and attendance was going down. Dennis said ATPA had offered them $10,000 to join them, and wanted to know what Outlaws had to offer. I told Dennis we couldn’t offer them money, but we could help their events with more and different vehicles, which would lead to more spectators and then better purses as the promoters made money. All of the ATPA vehicles were back east and most had different rules, and ITPA would not get any help from them at these events. I went to the Iowa meeting that winter and told them my plan and answered questions about Outlaws. ITPA voted for our help, not ATPA money and the rest is history. Now we hook close to 100 different vehicles at Hinton in front of a huge crowd, and they pay us a good purse. The same is true at a lot of the other Outlaw events. At the same time TPM (Tractor Pullers of Missouri) a charter member of NTPA was going to fold up for lack of vehicles, as promoters were starting to quit using them for this reason. They also wanted to join forces with Outlaws and we took on their events, but that first year, schedules were already set, and we could not give them much help with vehicle count. Some weekends we would have the same class at an established Outlaw event, a TPM event, and at an ITPA event. Some weekends we had the same class at 3 places on the same day. Before we could work on scheduling for the next year ATPA offered them $10,000, and dissatisfied with Outlaws they took the money, and started back up as TPM (Tractor Pullers of the Midwest). With about a dozen events they had the same problems as before, no vehicle count. The next year they got $20,000 from ATPA, and in 2 years they folded up again as the promoters didn’t care about the money pullers got, they wanted more vehicles. From what I have been told PPL gave Nebraska Bush Pullers $25,000 and some free Lucas Oil products. In return everyone had to join PPL at a cost of $425 ($200 vehicle - $225 membership) 86 members x $225 each = $19,350, plus 53 vehicles x $200 = $10,600 for a total of $29,950 sent to PPL for $25,000 and some oil products. Plus everyone had to join Nebraska Bush Pullers at 86 members x $50 = $4300. That is $34,250 paid by Nebraska Bush Pullers in membership and insurance for about 12 hooks. About half your membership (42) joined Outlaws and had to buy different insurance this year for a total of $525 x 42 = $22,050. On top of that Nebraska Bush Pullers paid Outlaws $6300 in 1-time hook fees at different Outlaw events. This is a total of $62,600 paid for membership, membership insurance, and 1-time hook fees. This is too much unnecessary expense, we need to work together to get this cost down. My proposal from the Outlaws to Nebraska Bush Pullers to help each other, and especially the Nebraska promoters is for Nebraska Bush Pullers to drop out of PPL and join Outlaws. This way we can co-sanction some events together without the promoter paying 2 different $800 event insurances. This will also allow Nebraska Bush Pullers to hook at Outlaw events without paying 1-time hook fees. We could co-sanction some events (Outlaws & Bush) and group some events together and make sweeps like Diller on the way to Rock Valley; Pickrell, Seward and Gibbon; West Point, Weeping Water and Leonardville; McCool Junction and Grand Island. Also when our schedules overlap on the same day we could alternate some of our 4 classes that are the same, every other year between the events. This would give both Nebraska Bush Pullers & Outlaw promoters a little different show each year. For example, if a Nebraska Bush Promoter is paying $8000 for LSS, SF, USS, LPS and getting 25 total vehicles (Ne. Bush class averages) he could pick 2 of the same classes for $8000 (Outlaw purse) and co-sanction the 2 classes with Outlaws and have 35 vehicles (class average Neb. Bush & Outlaws) plus have a different show than the fans have seen in past. In return Outlaw Promoters would co-sanction the other 2 classes with Nebraska Bush Pullers so they can also have a good show. I think both sides could sit down and work out details on entry fees, tech, etc., but the main issue is if Nebraska Bush Pullers would adopt the same rules as Outlaws, especially this year with changes in rules in SF, LSS, and LPS classes at the Outlaw banquet. The Xcalibur Pulling Association just had their banquet this past weekend and made all their rules in P4x4, LSS, SF, 4WD, & LPS classes match Outlaws as we did some co-sanctioning last year in some classes that matched, and now we can help each other in all classes at different events. When I looked at the Nebraska Bush Pullers results on the website you gained no new members from PPL to help with class numbers in the LSS, USS or SF classes. In the LPS class you only had a few new tractors at some events when they didn’t have a hook somewhere else. In return since you have different LPS rules than Outlaws you lost more Outlaw LPS tractors than you gained new LPS tractors. When it comes to the Nebraska Bush Pullers Modified Tractor class, this seemed to be a good class with 9 at most events and an average of 8.5 for the season. For example, Outlaws has 2 four-wheel drive truck classes (P4x4 & Modified 4WD). Since the P4x4 trucks do not travel as well, and most are in Missouri we hook them close to home, and at events that cannot afford the 4WD class. With 2 different 4-wheel drive classes I can hook one down south and the other up north and give both promoters a 4-wheel drive class on the same day and at the bigger events we can have both classes. With the Outlaw Modified Tractor class we do not have that option, as we have only 1 class of Modified tractors to offer and they are the most requested class by our promoters. With some of our southern promoters already having the class booked, we need some modified tractors at some northern events. I think we could really use the Nebraska Bush modified tractor class at some Outlaw events when there is not a conflict of dates with Nebraska Bush Pullers events. They could hook at some of our Nebraska events like Ravenna, Gibbon, Scribner, Weeping Water, Grand Island, Saturday afternoon at Wisner, etc. We also have 9 Outlaw hooks close to Nebraska like Rock Valley, Onawa, Hinton, Sac City, Cherokee, Hawarden, Moville, Sioux Falls, and Parker that might be interested in this class. This class runs the same engines or an equivalent engine as our 2-wheel drive trucks and purse should be around $2500 minimum paying out 8 places. The bottom line is with our overlapping of geography, location of events, and members in Nebraska the Outlaws can help your association and promoters grow more than PPL. While I can’t offer you any money, I can offer you savings. Last year Nebraska Bush members spent $6300 in 1-time hooks, and more would have hooked if not for the expense of the 1-time hook fee. Being an Outlaw member you can hook at any Outlaw event without that charge. The way our competitor insurance works, Outlaws is only responsible to pay insurance for the members it had the year before, so for the new members from Nebraska Bush Pullers that were not an Outlaw member last year your membership would be $150 less per member for a savings of about $4500. You will not have to hang any banners. Even when we had O’reilly Auto Parts for a sponsor, some of our promoters had different auto part stores for sponsors and it was a conflict of interest. Hanging all those different banners does not do anything for your promoters as they are not getting any money for that. Also the top 2 in end of season points in the LSS, SF, USS, & LPS you get an automatic invite to Western Farm Show in Kansas City like we do now with Xcalibur. The main thing Outlaws can do for the Nebraska Bush Pullers is make your events better by having more and different vehicles at your events. By having more vehicles at your events, it will lead to more spectators and profits for your promoters. This in turn will lead to better purses in the future, which will make your vehicle count go up even more. Then new promoters will look at Nebraska Bush Pullers to spend their entertainment dollars on at their events. I told the Nebraska Bush Promoters that contacted me I would get back to them after your meeting. Right now Weeping Water wants to go to 2 tracks with 6 classes, Scribner wants to add a class, and I am looking at 2 new events in Nebraska that contacted me. Thanks, Doug |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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left out
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Doug left out all the figures in expense incurred to change parts to conform to outlaw rules. As the only way to cosanction with outlaws is abide by outlaw rules am I right xcaliber? Nor is the deduct for expense incurred at the western farm show that would normally be offset...... |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Bush puller
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We spent more money switching to PPL rules as Bush had the same rules as Outlaws until the powers to be decided to go with PPL. Now no one wants to change back and forth to hook with both so most went with Outlaws and Bush was the big loser in the deal. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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yes
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Less power=less $$$$ spent |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Registered: 05/19/2008 Posts: 26 |
Here is the deal, the Nebraska Bush Pullers are not going under!! I appreciate all the constructive criticism of the leadership of the Nebraska Bush Pullers and sorry that not everyone is happy with all the decisions that have ever been made whether they affect you or not. That being said, the Nebraska Bush Pullers are not the Outlaws nor are we trying to be the Outlaws and I am sure it is the other way around. I have heard all kinds of bashing of the Outlaw schedule, leadership, tractor turn-out, etc., just as I have heard as many complaints of any other organization's show. I could go on but it won't solve anything. I don't feel it is necessary to bash anyone that is trying to make tractor pulling a better sport!! Well wishes to everyone this summer!! |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Anonymous User
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I am sure all the Nebraska Bush Pullers who supported the organization enjoyed the contingency money. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Who could have guessed this would turn into a page bashing the outlaws??!!! I could see this happening 2 days ago. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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stupid question
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What's with the outlaws hard on for the bush pullers? Why doesn't doug go mess with mstpa oh ya they told him to get bent. Figured the bush pullers had sent that message going to ppl. Slow learner I guess. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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pionter outer
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After reading that. History repeats itself again. The tpm thing happened just like that. Xcalibur learnt from there mistakes and is running strong. Meanwhile ppl takes all of bushes pull. Like it or not Doug runs a good game. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Just haven Fun
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Nebraska Bush - Strong state organization that has a good following and puts on a good lower budgeted pull for county fairs and festivals looking to have an upper scale tractor pull without the upper scale budget. The advantage of a Bush event is since the organization is part of the PPL from time to time pullers from Missouri, Kansas and other PPL families can show up to one of their events. As someone pointed out earlier from time to to time you see some of the better running unlimited tractors from Kanas and Missouri show up to a Bush hook. You can also from time to time catch a few the stronger running limited pros at a bush event from time to time. Another plus to Bush events is several of their shows are free to watch. Family's can afford to come out and enjoy an evening of pulling at their county fair with out needing to take a loan out to support the pull. Good group of pullers, good sponsors, and good promoters. Always a fun group to hang around at the pulls as well.
Outlaws - Started small and have just grown and grown over the years. Along with all the growth comes growing pains from time to time. One thing that Outlaws had to do was put some regulations on some of their classes to allow for their tractors to have a chance to compete 25 times a year. Hence all the different rules that have made them a little different from everyone else. Does it work? I guess they seem to have had good numbers over the years. The shows are good. Can you tell a difference between a Limited Pro in the outlaws and a limited pro in the PPL? When their on the same track yea, but not when they are three hundred miles away on the same night. The point is we could argue about some of the Outlaw classes and who has the better show, or horse power all night every night, but since they don't compete head to head why continue to waste our time. They're different organizations with different thoughts on what makes for good tractor pulling. Outlaws schedule is large, lots of hooks and lots of miles for all the pullers to run this year. Not sure how many will be able to commit to a full year of it, but they sure can't complain of a lack of hooks, thats for sure. I am guessing there are more complaints about having too many vs. not enough coming from their organization this year. Promoters seem to like their shows, obviously pullers like their shows or they wouldn't be booking all of these events. Fans follow them all summer long, kind of hard not to they get the most attention on PULLOFF.com. The only thing I see they are starting to do is by having the same show night in and night out, they are potentially hurting some of their shows on a regional level. Big shows will carry the big crowds, but the smaller shows will lose out as the cost of an Outlaw show is far more expensive then a bush show. Plus Outlaws have the added cost of the big screen to their shows. I am guessing to watch an Outlaw show this coming year fans should be expecting to pay twenty - twenty-five a person. Not bad, still cheaper then most of your motor sports events, but getting a little steep for tractor pulling I think. After all , this is a pretty big family oriented motor sport. The other issue with that cost is if your going to be seeing the same show on a Thursday as you will on a Saturday in a town thirty miles away, what motivation do you have to want to pay to see that same show again? Just a thought. New Western Series - They are part of the PPL family. The PPL will have more than 80 events all over the United States in 2014 when you include all its member states like Bush. PPL seems to be more corporate. Lots of sponsors and advertising at their events and on the sides of vehicles. Your even seeing several PPL members with fully wrapped vehicles indicated they are sponsored. They are getting the sponsors thats no doubt. They have access to television, their shows are very impressive to watch. You can tell there tractors mean business when they hook to a sled. The motors are larger and more expensive. Their shows seem to be more professional produced as well. Lots of workers, all professionally dressed. I think from a fans perspective it's exciting to see them making their way west. Their shows are exciting to watch, they are making this sport grow in a new direction. More horses, more money, more sponsors, equals more excitement and a better entertainment value. Plus you can catch all winter long, replays of their bigger shows on Mavtv, NBC Sports and even CBS once a year. The biggest challenge for the West Series this year will be creating it's own identity. Creating that brand of pulling that the sport needs out west. Having the quality pulls with high quality tracks and events like the larger PPL organization has done over the years east of the river. The sports needs this, we as fans need this. Anyone who wants the sport to take the next step wants this to happen. IT's called PROGRESS and its part of business and life. The OUTLAWS are a good mid tear organization that has done a tremendous amount for the sport in the midwest. They have good vision and good ideas, but lack the budget and the knowledge and leadership that is required to take the next step. They don't have the business leadership that PPL has. Sorry, but it's true. Nothing wrong with that, just stating the obvious. Lucas Oil isn't coming west to see if they can make it work and then leaving in a year as so many of you hope. They mean business! They have the money, marketing power, and leader ship to make this sport take the next step. It's more corporate. Thats for sure and maybe that's what scares everyone? Maybe its the rules they have vs. Outlaws. I don't know. I hope thought that some of you give it a try as you just might be surprised. At the end of the day after all the bickering and figure pointing all three organizations still have to hook their iron to a sled and pull three hundred feet. IT's called Truck & Tractor PULLING and it's the sport we all love:} Good Luck to all! |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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TOP GUN
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First, thanks for the comments pobar, and also a thanks to Just haven Fun, a good to the point comment. Remember the letter from outlaw was in 2011, and a few things have changed since for both mentioned. It was decided by the board to go the direction we went. Looking forward was better than looking back. All orgs. have the same majority of pullers at events, so its nothing the NBPI is guilty of. All pullers need to support the org. they are members of. I look for a good year. Good luck too all, it's getting closer. Darin |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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4.1 puller
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This PPL puller had a ball hooking with the Badger State Pullers out east last year. I expect to have just as much fun hooking with the Nebraska Bush pullers this summer. I think the PPL alliances with the state organizations are good for the sport. It gives the pullers new competition and the fans new iron to watch. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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wonder why
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I wonder why the diesel supers have never been neutered in the outlaws? Seems as tho we can write essays on why to limit pros so we can keep numbers up but it's OK to only have 3 or 4 ligit supers hmm this is a tough one to figure out |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Team one
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It's not that hard to figure out, there just aren't that many dss tractors out there, and the ones that are falling behind know it but either can't afford to update or simply don't want to, out of all classes I enjoy dss the most but there just aren't many to go around, there are some new ones on the horizon,enjoy what's in front of you or stay home. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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dss fan
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They kind of are with a 540 no deck plate rule. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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How many?
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I don't know why they have that rule , how many dss are over 540 anyways? Maybe a handful in the country? |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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as a fan I guess I don't understand or try to understand your guys points on Outlaws or Bush.. I want to say thanks to both. You both have good pulls and bad pulls.. We all have difference in thoughts of way things should be. But this is kicker to me and this goes across nation and world.. Honestly we all love one thing and that is pulling.. As a FAN could outlaws bush do one pull that we meet in middle? east coast has different ways that we do out here...and have one pull that could be huge? It would not happen in first few years but both have to give. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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How about
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I say have one super pull where you do it like the old days, Weigh em and Pull em. |
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Re: Nebraska Bush Pullers
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Registered: 08/14/2013 Posts: 203 |
I would like to compete in run what you brought and see who has strongest tractor. We have competed in king of the hill and done ok. |
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