05:16:46am, Friday, May 10, 2024
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New class for trucks
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Smaller budget
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What is everyones opinion on a small block 4x4 class keeping it as cheap as possible to get a starter class going? Just looking for an inexpensive starter class with all safety equipment to try and draw new intrest. This would be in the iowa,illinois and wisconsin area what is peoples thoughts? Terry.... |
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Re: New class for trucks
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intersted
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what are you thinking like stock trucks with safety equip and small blocks eng. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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puller43
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Put A Moto Price BUy To Keep It From Being A Money Game |
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Re: New class for trucks
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470 cubic inch 8000rpm chip stock tranny transfer case. Street tires 36%hitch #6200 weight bracket no more than 60 inch from center of front axle. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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(Just looking for an inexpensive starter class)
A later model tuner class. 5.7 liter engine spec. Factory- Fuel Injected intake only, with mufflers receiver hitches- [www.pullingproducts.com]- might even lower the hitch some, to save on the drive line. more four door cabs any more, so a longer wheel base. 6500 lb ish or whatever gets the most trucks. keep the tires small, something like--(Mud Terrains or whatever) in 265/75 R16 (open stock and super stock run a big tire). Toyota Tacoma Ford GMC Ram Chevy Nissan Titan |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Spartan
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OLDMH, I like the idea you have except there are 3/4 ton trucks running around with 6.0L, and a limited number of 1/2 tons with 6.0 / 6.2L now is this designed to be a light duty truck class? The smallish tire is a great idea it keeps breakage down. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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just my 2 cents, went 5.7, for the middle gound. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Registered: 04/29/2011 Posts: 32 |
Interstate has a 4500lb 410ci class, |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Spartan
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Best thing you can do if you want a budget type class is stay away from aluminum heads. Dual plane intakes only and carbs with choke horns. Headers okay but need to run exhaust to rear of cab. What cubic inch? Stock blocks? Factory heads? If you allow aftermarket block and heads you will have 450 cubic inch small blocks with pump gas compression making 600hp..thats not very budget friendly just my thoughts. If it is allowed someone will build it that's the it goes regardless of any prize money. If aluminum heads were allowed what are the rules for those any type? Not trying to be a hater just getting it out there so the guy with the 355 with good ole' double humps doesn't show up and think he has a chance. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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new class
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Thanks for your input. I see your point on the heads and block getting expensive fast and ruining it. i think with small blocks a 500-600 hp truck would keep the drivetrain together.We need to get some to commit so i can get started on rules and go to Fantasy with our plans. I think we can make a real fun reasonable class out of this. the sled will let us go 300 just like the big boys at a fraction of the price.We need new people in pulling us old farts are petering out and no ones replacing us.Terry.. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Thinker
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Spartan has a handle on things!
NO aluminum heads. Mandate a MSD 6 or 7AL-2. Hand out 6000 rpm chips at sign up at every pull. MSD Box must be mounted so chip is easily viewed. Club owned chips a special color that is hard/impossible to copy. C style clutch can MINIMUM, blankets for automatics. Driveline loops and U joint covers like the grown ups. Gas. No alcohol. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Spartan
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It may be hard to get people to commit, best thing to do is establish a set of rules so anyone that may have an interest in building a truck has a plan from which to start.
My thoughts: Iron aftermarket heads 180cc runner max (yes guys could port bigger, but must have casting numbers for original volume) You can't prevent porting to hard to police. Dual plane aluminum intake with 1" max carb spacer ( could be used to adapt spread port to square port) 850cfm double pumper carb max WITH CHOKE HORN. I suggest whatever Holley part number for that carb and everyone uses same one. Factory blocks. Mechanical fuel pumps Headers with mufflers to rear of cab no size limit. 33"x12.50" max tire (perhaps even as small as a 285/75) No welded suspension ( bolt in blocks, no custom hitch use receiver type hitch that has been reinforced ( no pulling from up near rearend) I like the RPM chip idea. I know IMCA does that i think they limit it to 6,500 when using GM crate engines. What wheelbase, weight class ( I suggest keeping it as light as possible) Full uncut steel bodies, no large weight boxes up front, factory glass, 4 corner brakes. If you want a class that is budget based and reasonably easy to build and maintain start here. As far as compression ratio and cubic inches those will both be hard to police unless you are willing to pump and whistle every truck. Factory block will help keep CID down around 412" if using a 400 block from any brand. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Kylec
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Just thought I would chime in on this. We pull mini's in Ohio and the main club we pull with has a starter class that the engine rules would kinda of what you guys are doing. We have tried to make the rules in this class walk by rules. Basically you can walk be the tractor and tell if it is legal or not. The only two things is the pulling the air cleaner and the valve cover. Which only take a few seconds to check. We do not have a cubic inch limit but do not allow any stroker pans. The cubic inch limit is only good if you are checking them. Other wise its not a good rule if you want to make the class easy to deal with.
1. Small block Chevy only 2. Maximum of one gas carb with choke horn 3. Must run stock height valve covers with only one stock height valve cover gasket 4. Must run stamped steel rockers and stock adjusting nuts, no roller rockers of any type 5. No roller valve train of any kind 6. Automatic transmissions only 7. HEI or dual point ignitions only 8. No ignition boxs 9. Must run OEM dual plain GM intake or Edelbrock Performer RPM intake only. No air gap intakes 10. Must run OEM GM cast iron heads. no BOW TIE heads or aftermarket heads 11. No aftermarket blocks like BOW TIE or DART 12. Maximum of ONE 1" carb spacer or adapter 15. Must pull off valve cover and air cleaner when checked 16. no stroker oil pans and no modifications to oil pan to clear for stroking allowed |
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Re: New class for trucks
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my thoughts
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Thats what i was hoping for. drivable trucks with safety equipment. Aluminum heads,intakes,headers and someway to keep the power down. compression limit,pump fuel only are a few ideas.No fuel inj and must have a distributor. Talked to a guy from fantasy truck pullers and thought if we had enough commitment they would consider. Then we could have pit passes,points and good payback.Terry.... |
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Re: New class for trucks
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At our fair pull the class with the most entries and actually most crowd appeal was the local stock diesel and gas class.Basically no modifications run what got you there.The fancy high dollar trucks that follow the sled would prefer that they didn't even have locals but that is basically where it all started..Last year our Fair Queen won in a stock Dodge .If you cant drive them they are too expensive is what low budget competition is.$300K tractors to run for $1000 to win is good for the spectators and I love to watch them but its for the love of the sport not to make a living. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Spartan
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The "local" high dollar guys?? that follow the sleds that don't pull NTPA?? I and others enjoy the local street trucks, that's where we all started. I would really like to see more true street gas pickups so people with newer trucks can pull and not have to run against the smokers. But not many people want to put loops and other items on regardless of how easy it may seem to install. How many of you have seen a true street truck spit parts out and go any further than under the truck?? I have seen many of the high horsepower trucks break and no parts come out. There is always a chance yes but I have seen tractor wheels come off so how do you protect against that? |
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Re: New class for trucks
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The first post, asked.
1.What is everyones opinion, on a small block 4x4 class? 2.Keeping it as cheap as possible, to get a starter class going? 3.Just looking for an inexpensive starter class with all safety equipment to try and draw new interest. 4.This would be in the iowa,illinois and wisconsin area ,what is peoples thoughts? To try and do this, and not let today's technology participate ( fuel injection and aluminum heads), would be a mistake. Keeping a factory tire size will keep cost down. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Kylec
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Would.not be a mistake if the correct limits are in place. Don't get why you would have to have fuel inj? That only helps the guys that are going to spend money on big heads. Maybe put in 4 or 5 carbs you can use. We have done that with the intakes. Can pick them up at a swap meet for 100 to 150 bucks and a new one for 225. The heads are a maybe but again the correct limits would have to be in place to keep someone from put some big heads in the class. Have seen it time and time again with opening the rules up to Aluminum heads it puts a unnecessary cost into it. We have restarted the sportsman class twice since the early 90's because the class got out of hand when the class got out of hand. The first problem was opening the heads up. We have had a couple of people put big heads on for the next class up when it was a carb only class. They cleaned house for about two pulls before losing the engine because with the carb can't evenly get the fuel to lean cylinders. By keeping the carb rule you can keep a lot of high dollar parts out of the class. If someone.wants to put that much money into a class they need to go up to another class. |
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Don't get why you would have to have fuel inj?
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Cummins Dodge good, HEMI Dodge bad?
Just kidding If you want new pullers, you might want to think about late model trucks. |
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Re: Don't get why you would have to have fuel inj?
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Good ideas
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Thanks for all the input i like some of your ideas. i think we do are homework it could be a good time and a fun class.Stock blocks,carbs with chokes, cast heads,rpm would be good but hard to police maybe? As would pump gas maybe hard to keep a handle on.33 tires max and a lights,brakes,glass,box floor mandatory. good ideasTerry.... |
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Re: Don't get why you would have to have fuel inj?
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I have a new 355 fresh built SBC,on run in stand,high rpm,has $600.00 balancer. Sounds awesome. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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I personally think you need to look out the window at what drives down the road everyday. Most people don't drive the square bodies with carbs anymore. Make it 6300 pounds factory fuel injection,full exhaust system, solid receiver hitch. For tire size 285's because you really can't limit rim size like the old day's with 17's and 20's being factory now. Maybe have 2 weight classes for the 3/4 and 1 tons that weigh over 7000 factory. Just my thoughts. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Thanks
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Thanks for your input. My thoughts was how many gas engine trucks are even bought anymore other than half tons? Diesels took over that heavy truck market. iI see your point and we will do our research before we proceed thats why input is helpful. Thanks Terry. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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[www.youtube.com]
[www.youtube.com] [www.youtube.com] [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Anonymous User
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Todays stock trucks are feul injection use today technology to many deisel classes |
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Re: New class for trucks
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GoldDigger
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I understand bringing in stock trucks 4x4(gas). I would think with most guys keep it a throw together trophy class. Like most fairs do.
The general problem is inurance liability with lack of saftey equpment. You commented a "sanction style class." It would be very tuff. My son would be a prime example. Basing a ls style chevy (5.3) would be a nightmare. for rule and options. Old dudes like me cant comperhend power out put of these motors. 400hp stock. a few unseen mods? drivetrain would be the downfall, running 2-3 passes a season is different than 14 plus. Once the sled owner knows the trucks how they place he will tighen the class distances in tighter group. Increasing pan drop to stop the best truck and help the weaker. Then you will have a bunch of trucks broke that compete every week. they will break themselvs fixing there truck. Best starter class i have seen is 3800-4000 lbs 2wd. I am a 4x4 truck owner. IAMO has a 3800 class. response has been great. Saftey equipment is easy to mandate. Stock car base engine Junk yard available parts.(drivetrain) rpm limit. cu inch limit. etc. Very little breakage. (low weight and 1 ton drivetrain). You can build one for the price of average ATV...4-8 thousand. Haul it with a suburban or 1/2 ton truck and a light weight trailer. Other benifits father son/daughter team. We have at least 4 of these teams.kids drive also.(provisions for instructional ride along) good balance on ford /chevy/ dodge. We have some middle age guys sharing trucks. haul 2 on a trailer. Call me if you have more questions. Mike Hatfield |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Kylec
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If you stay with a small block class the parts are easy and cheaper to come by. Don't see how useing new truck technology is cheaper. Taking $50,000 truck out pull every week is not a cheap task that most people will do. Are area also has a light 4 wheel drive truck class up and coming. They run pretty much the same rules as we do in the sportsman class with a twenty icnh hitch. Trucks a reliable and on the mini sled we run them on they fly. If you guys want to go fuel Inj then go up a class or two that is not a good starter class. Carb are easy to pick up and anyone can work on them. The other class is just a street legal class that will never get any following because the rules would.never match because every fair pull has them. This class would be a good noise maker and that is what a pulling is supposed to be. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Look into Maumeevalleypullers.com
We had to add a "Hot Street" Gas class, since built fuel injection small blocks were getting into the street stock and putting 100-150' on the majority of the class. Rules were made so that these "modified" street trucks wouldn't/can't drop down. They limited the payout, no traction bars, no solid suspension, no headers, no added weight, no cold air intakes. A newer fuel injected HEMI in a Dodge can put down 600hp at the wheels and still pull 16# of vacuum. Factory is 18#. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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what weight? |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Thanks
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I would like to be able to let everyone pull in this class but there is a pile of aftermarket parts for the 5.3 and 6.0 out there making them imposible for the carb guy to run with. The true stock guys never want to have safety equipment on and this is a must in my opinion. That is a few reasons we tried staying away from them.I see no reason a puller could not take a newer truck and drop in a carb motor. I am thinking no roller cams,choke horn carbs,name a few select cast and aluminum heads that would be legal,possibly a cube limit and maybe pump gas only.I think a stock drive train would take 550-600hp and live with a good inexpensive single disc clutch and limit tire size. Terry.. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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mike
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I copied this From IAMO pulllers 2wd mini class. Alot of this profile came from the KOTTPA .
1. Engine designs are limited to "small block" configurations only. OEM production blocks only. Must have OEM casting numbers. No Bowtie, FRPP/Ford Motorsports, Direct Connection, or other aftermarket blocks allowed. 2. 366 cubic inch maximum displacement. No tolerance. 3. MSD 6AL with Rev Limiter required. NO Options. Unit must be mounted in the engine bay on passenger side firewall with rev limit chip facing up. Engines will be limited to 7000rpm. 4. Camshafts must be solid or hydraulic flat tappet. No roller camshafts allowed. NO roller lifters. 5. Cast Iron Cylinder heads only. 6. Cast Iron or Cast Aluminum Intake manifolds only. 7. One (1) four barrel natural aspirated carburetor, 4150 style. 850 CFM maximum with factory part number on choke housing. Choke housing must remain stock. Only carburetor allowed is squared flanged. Numbers must not be altered. All air must enter through the ventura. Carburetor "Go/No Go" tool must not exceed below factory casting ring in non modified ventura. Tool must not enter bottom base plate. All other alterations acceptable. 8. Engine exhaust must exit vertically or downward and straight back. The only rule that needs modification in my opinion is the carb. I would enertain a rule of "any 4150" . IAMO used this from some other associations. Reality is the 7k limit takes care of the benifits of the big carbs. The choke horn thing is just a old school thing. we used a old 850 that had one removed. A fancy name brand carb that had been on a few 468-477 bbc chevy's It was the goto carb when we needed a good running carb.(had switched to dominators on the bbc). A out of the box new 850 holly out powered it on the dyno. we cut the the choke horn of of a old carb body installed it used the air cleaner stud to hold it no difference. The rest of the rule is verbage that could be removed. Again this was proably older rule that has past its time in reality hard to check or enforce. If you think a small block type class is needed in your area 4x4 or2wd this would be a good foundation for parody Ford chevy dodge . Read the rules a few times . Cast heads, No roller cams, small block only, rpm limit are some mandatory words to consider. Thanks Mike |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Kylec
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The only problem I see with the rules is small block only. We ran into this a few years ago. Define a small block. GM is the only manufacturer that actually calls a block a small block. They way we keeled the rpms down was the value train and the intake. You can only push them so hard. It seems to be working well. We have a couple of people every year that bring out a hi winder but it only last two or three books. Then they back it down. With the intake it will only flow so much air. So you can put a big carb on but doesn't help as much. Either way I think this would be a good starter class. We are looking at the 4wd or 2wd class closely. We are having some of the trucks at one.of our fair pulls this year. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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mike
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what cubic inch then? Curiosity i will not pull with you , but get stuck being the tech guy. Mike |
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Re: New class for trucks
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Kylec
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Thats the reason in the starter class we run Chevy Block only. That limits the cost because parts are cheaper and not getting into Boss ford engines. The rules we use to limit cubic inch is not modified oil pans. All the rules in the class are meant to be walk by. The only two thing that require any work to check is remove the air cleaner and valve covers to check carb and valve train. We can tech a tractor as far as engine rules is under 5 minutes. The problem with cubic inch as long as some one is checking it fine but what we run into more time than not is no one will check it. A class above this is a open small block class but we wanted a cheaper start up class and it has work good for that. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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wanna be truck puller
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how about a head count on how many people are interested in this class you can count me as one |
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Re: New class for trucks
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I pull with the Flint Hills Truck Pullers in Kansas and we have a class called Super Street 4WD with a max cubic inch limit of 415 ci. single 850 carb with choke tower, cast iron block, cast iron heads(aftermarket allowed), gasoline only, no vacuum pumps, factory T-case, 1-ton running gear, 33x12.50 DOT tires. Most of our trucks are in the low to mid 700 hp range. We run two weight classes: 5400 and 5800 lbs. We have actually opened the class up to newer trucks with aluminum blocks, heads, and fuel injection, but rarely get anyone who wants to risk breaking their daily driver, unless of course they have been watching the pull from the stands and consuming liquid courage and you don't want to go down that road. Our class is very competitive and is much more affordable than moving up to pro stock or modified. Hope this helps, good luck. |
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Re: New class for trucks
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puller43
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How Much Does It COst For A Motor Carb TO Oil pan |
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Re: New class for trucks
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powercrazy
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A low to mid 700hp smallblock I'd with aftermarket block, heads, solid roller cam, complete would be all of $8,000. A smallblock anything making that kind of power is a very nice piece! |
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