03:33:38pm, Sunday, May 05, 2024
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NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Reporter
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FROM NTPA TECH SERVICES:[[/u]/b]
Mr. Richwine, I understand the Hypermax block has been approved for 2009 in the superstock class. Is it legal and do you have the correct part number for this block? Thanks! JC Answer: The WPI executive board has instructed me to accept the Case IH block part #87299950 as an acceptable replacement block for casting number #1814042C1. This part number is legal for all divisions that use a Case IH block. As I understand it, when you call the Case IH dealer he will refer you to Hypermax Larry |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Zeus
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Pandora's box has been opened! |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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BIG CHECKBOOK
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Great, Big checkbook pulling at its finest. glad to see they removed the only rule that was keeping it from getting totally out of hand? |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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JD FAN
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look how far this sport has come. all the changes,some dont like change but look where we are now. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Registered: 12/13/2008 Posts: 91 |
If your going to put down ntpa atleast have the gratitude to put your name up. |
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Big Checkbook?
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
Since when was pulling ever cheap? If it was there wouldn't be any fans. They would all be pulling |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Lefty
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Big Checkbook? How much did it cost to replace all those internal parts when the junkyard block exploded? And they hoped it didn't break the fuel pump and external parts too! And sheet metal.... If there was a replacement JD block I think it would be sold out too- It was the only rule holding back progress. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Has Ben
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Why not? Its the only part that is ag tractor. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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BIG CHECKBOOK
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My statement was not running down NTPA. It was that there are now letting a class with few #,s even get worst. how many new supers have came it the class in the last few your GN or RN? and as for breakage, who know when the boost goes over 300 that block will let go to i would bet. just my opion |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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smoke lover
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JD breakage is why we have componets. IH is why we have replacement blocks |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Registered: 10/08/2008 Posts: 70 |
WELL THIS WHOLE AFTER MARKET BLOCK IS A JOKE BUT SINCE LEFTY CANT SIGN HIS NAME AND WANTS TO TALK ABOUT BREAKING PARTS PROVES HE DONT HAVE A DAM CLUE. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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who cares tractor pulling isn't cheap. the limit be the size of your back pocket!!! |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Jay F
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I agree with Austin. Super Stock is the biggest baddest tractor class, let the boys runs the best stuff they can afford and put to gether. If you don't like the hyper blocks there is other classes, pro stock, super farm. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Re-read the original post
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It's for all the "stock block" tractor divisions. 
Quote:"This part number is legal for all divisions that use a Case IH block." Not excluding Larry Roberts' Mod too. 
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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overload
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Good ole Hyper/Lagod outsmarts em once again. Wonder who will be the first to lay a $20,000 block on the track. Just how do you suppose he got his own part number from CASEIH. Looks like the green and orange may be up for a spankin this summer. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Bonehead
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The problem isn't the block!
The problem is, most guys who are pullin with binder motors, are still basing the long block of their super off of the same 1978 technology that got Jerry LaGod into business... ..... 4 chargers, 3 stages, high boost, alot of fuel, and for insurance, a pop-off valve, that you can adjust to the point of closing it off, right before engine explosion! .... Crank that waste gate tight till you destroy a motor, and then back it off on your next one just a bit... You won't destroy your motor next time.. But if you want a few more feet... Crank it tighter, and get ready to spend money!... The Jerry LaGod school of tractor pulling.. And financing his grandchilderens retirement fund.. (He has enough money for that) Now, it's 2009... And I will admit, that alot of the tractors have come along way... Superfarms are making the HP that prostocks did back in the mid 90's or possibly later. The pro's are making unbelievable hp, and the supers are makin it also... But seriously, where has it come from? Technology... But the guys that are missing it on the red supers, are the ones that are still building off of 1978 technology, where it hasn't changed. Let's get creative... Let's try something new.. Maybe we need to refine the way the cylinder head works... How about a low boost, high volume of air type cylinder head? Something that moves gobs more air, but yet keeps the boost down, maybe changing the camshaft a bit to relieve cylinder pressure? The engine dyno's out there now can hold a super stock engine. And don't tell me they can't... I've talked to enough of the dyno owners out there to know they could handle it. The problem is the guys who pull with the red tractors mainly want to just call up Jerry and order a win... Which they can, if they want to sacrifice longevity. The guys with the JD's are on the right track. And you look at the pro's... Well for the most part they are all running aftermarket cylinder heads, that would work very well for a super. Huge, massive ports that are lowering the boost pressure, but moving way more air, their cam's are gigantic, and are relieving cylinder pressure... It's just an air pump boys... Pump out more air faster than anyone else and you have something. The thing that i don't understand is... This hyper block... Does it come with a guarantee that it's not going to fly apart? I don't think so... So you put in whatever it costs...8? 9? 10? grand... whatever it is... into a bigger ticking time bomb! Now when the hyper block decides it wants to have that litter of pups... Don't you think the explosion is going to be bigger? a bit more violent? Maybe we just need to keep thinking the way we did back 30 years ago... But put new technology into pumps, injectors, turbo's and plumbing... to make more power, but not change anything else. And think that a re-cast block is going to hold it all... It's not going to! Think about it here... That block isn't the savior.. It could become the death of superstocks, prostocks, and superfarms. Because one guy get's it, and wins...just because he has the rest of his combination figured out, and now everyone thinks they need it... When they don't.... Or, you have a super, that still decides to have that litter of pups right out there, and the explosion is worse, and now someone in the stands get's hurt, or killed... And then guess what... Shroud is making complete engine, and transmission scatter blankets! Because i'm telllin ya right now, your sheetmetal, or engine side shields, aren't going to hold back the explosion when it decides it's time to happen. Now go ahead and say... well gosh, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and build one! Prove it! Show us... well here's the thing... I have no desire to... Nor do i have the money to build one... I'd much rather watch the Prostocks... I think that the technology in the pro's has come along way in the last 10 years. Granted they still have explosions, and turbo's don't like to stay together. But you will have problems like that in most classes.. But i just think the pros are the best class out there. And i really think the cylinder heads are so much further advanced in that class, and i think the guys who pull that class, have went outside the box to try and further that class. Now i'm not blaming ALL SUPER STOCKS!!!! i just think the guys with the red ones need to step up to the plate and try something new... The JD's have had to work with a disadvantage for years... (oh gosh, you need a crossflow head, you need this, or that, it's why it doesn't work) But they whined and complained, but because of the politics in pulling, nothing was done as far as handicapping the red guys so JD guys had to work around it, and work with it to make their's better.. Even making aftermarket heads, different turbo plumbing, you name it... They have gone down that road... And it works... So here's where the red guys need to step up.. IT's their turn to work on it.. NOt just think the block is going to help..... It's not even a band aid... it's a tourniquit (sp?).... it's going to temporarily stop the bleeding, but not fix the wound... ... .... ... .... |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Overload
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Bonehead,
Hypers already got what you say the reds need. You just gotta buy the big prostock Hyper head for 15k and the new block for 20k and you're good to go. If that don't suit ya I'm sure Indy or Staab or somebody is chewing out heads that will work. You're right though somebody will eventually lay one of these blocks out on the track unless they can tie em together like Young Blood. Wait till more of these tractors make it into the light super class with Hypers new stuff and four good chargers. The Bomb may have to get a tune up to stay ahead of em. Think about it take Hypers new block punch it to 504 , put a big head on it and four good chargers. The more air you can flow the bigger the chargers and still build 300 llbs boost. 4 bolt main in this new block and a good crank, whats the next limiting factor?? Tie the block together and its balls to the wall or sandpile or whatever. In two years it will be billet blocks any way, after the green and orange get spanked this summer. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
I think your going out on limb saying green and orange are going to get spanked. They will do just fine! The guys in the Pro class with ag chassies (shoppe, cain, hook to name a few) still know how to win on any day. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
I agree. This summer the impact will be minimal as I don't think the current Hyper block is significantly stronger than a factory block that's tied together. The future however depends upon Hyper. As long as it continues as a new iron copy of the factory block with the only changes being 4 bolt caps & a higher nickel content, the impact will continue to be minimal. If however, they decide that since the block is now firmly legal because of the part number & start making significant changes to the structure, green & orange will start slipping behind. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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overlaod
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Not trying to take anything away from the Prostocks you mentioned but look at the Pro finals in cloverdale. Don't know if their running the new block but Sandhill Binder and T-Bone put it on the small blocks and the big block Deere's pretty good. Take the new Hyper block punch it out to 680 and put a good head on it and who knows what charger next 5.5 ??. Tweak the cam and who knows how big you can spin em . The pros will be building 150+ pounds of boost if not there already. Never say never with this class. Holset 6.0??? |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
First of all with the minimum breakage that Hook suffered last year, why would he spend the extra dollars for that even when he is only a 640 cubes believe it or not. Cains WILL NOT run the block I guarantee and why would they after BG last year. Larry will always find a way to win because he just knows how to. Overmeyer is not running the block either, will he in the future I dont know. I totally understand what your saying but, only a few guys have made the 5.25 chargers work and as far as I know and think I am pretty sure on this that only one guy has tried the big charger and I don't think it worked for him. I don't think it will work on a stock block as it will take a pile of RPM's to keep spinning and if they are running 672 cubes it wont work unless it's a 4 bolt main. I am not saying I agree with the block completley but, I will say Hook finds a way to run very solid with a smaller cube motor and not a HUGE charger. This summer will be very interesting |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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correction 2 Sully
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Hooks turbo is as big as any CURRENT Hyper customer ! Now with that being said and not taking any thing away from Hooks (great people) they got a new charger during the 2008 season, and then they started winning . Just curious who tried the big charger and it didn't work ? Thanks. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 974 |
I will not say who tried the big one and I am just assuming he did. Not 100 % sure on it. Hook started winning when they changed there gearing around and you can ask them that. They will tell you |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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bonehead
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300 pounds of boost?
That's where the problem is... It's way to much boost pressure... When your putting that much psi into the cylinder, the cylinder pressure is immense, and that's why there's so many problems out there with blocks deciding they want to have a litter of pups... I know of a few tractors out there in the super class, that are running 3 maybe 4 turbos and only turning 90-120 pounds of boost, and they run.. i mean flat out run... That's the style head i'm talking about... way less boost pressure needed... They run the tractor at higher Ripem's.... which won't hurt because they aren't loading the engine so hard, and filling it with so much cylinder pressure. These heads aren't your typical IH head that with hardblock in it, you can make it flow around 400cfm... These heads are massive... flow ranges of 500-600 cfm... Just unbelieveable numbers... Ports that we could theoretically stick our heads right into and look at the valves! That's where the future of this needs to be.... If we want to see "High Performance" let's BUILD "high performance" Let's go outside the box, and think about it a big... Not just "modify" what the manufacturer has built. Because their "intentions" of this is a lil different than our intentions. When Jerry first worked at IHC years and years ago, and he designed the 400 series binder motor, he designed it with efficiency and longevity in mind for IHC... But he also had other things in mind when he was desigining those motors. Now let's totally reshape the mold here. Use some of the parts, but let's define it, and build it into a "race" motor... Not a "modified" motor. That's how you advance it, and show the innovation of where technology has been, and where it's going to go. There's no doubt in my mind that the tractors out there now that are trying it, are going to work even better in the future. it just needs a little more playing done. And the longevity is there with the low boost motors. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,151 |
I might be stupid, but in my understanding a lot of boost BEFORE the (small) ports doesn't mean you get more filling into the cylinder than with big ports and less boost. The boost pressure has little to do with the cylinder pressure (that is generated by the amount of air in the cylinder and the compression of the engine).... Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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I Agree with Sascha
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When Boxler blew his apart in BG Hans was asked by my friend how much boost they were running at the time and he said they were in the 150# range and they have BIG PORTS IN THEIR HEAD I seen it myself after the EXPLOSION also Earley said he was at 210# per what he told the announcer when she blew apart BUt they could be telling a fib, how do we as spectatorsknow the TRUTH.Have you ever see their computer read outs?? and what about the 2 PRO'S Boersen and Wileman with one charger what are they at 120# ?? they exploded as well
Bonehead please correct me if im wrong! Show us the DATA of your "speculations" on boost pressure |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
Exactly. Power is made by putting combustion pressure on the top of the piston. With a bigger piston you can make more power at lower pressure, but as you say cutting the block for the bigger hole reduces it's strength. Also, bigger = heavier parts make for bigger loads on the crank & rods.
Mr Bonehead also proposes to just crank up the RPM's and make more power. I'm not sure what constitutes his litter of pups,but if it includes spitting out cranks & rods, more RPM's are a good way to do that. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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overload
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Doubt you're talking any diesels are you? Looks whose winining and they're building lots of boost, Lehn , Renegade Deere, Young Blood, LockN Load The diesels will still push the boost. If they put on better heads they will put on bigger chargers. |
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Re: NTPA News: Hyper Blocks are Legal for '09
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Overload
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Also to make your theory work you have to run big cubes, its a delicate balance you can explode the blocks either way, big bores low boost or small bore high boost. If it would live run 4 good chargers on 650 cubes with 200-250 lbs boost and it would be unstoppable. Good for one pass. |
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