11:05:37am, Saturday, May 11, 2024
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Cubic Inch Check
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Long time puller
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Who all has ever heard of a real cube check being performed Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 02:12PM by Jake Morgan. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
This is a great topic so I split it into a different thread and re-titled it. I hope you don't mind.
As I stated on the other thread, I've only even heard of it protested one or two times in all my years of going to pulls. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure if it was carried out or if the protest was ignored. Honestly I wish it was randomly checked more often in all the classes, and it doesn't matter if it's a light Super running at 544 CID or a Big Block Deere Pro Stock running at 800 CID, it should be checked. It also shouldn't take a protest from someone else in the class, it should just be a name in a hat every now and then. It would prove that the honest guys are honest and it would keep the cheaters at bay. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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answer
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Most arent man enough to protest someone. They do it as a group or get on forums like this and start rumors. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
From what I've seen = The person who does the Protest is the one pullers complain about the most !!!!!! [must be a snitch thing, not sure] |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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size matters
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jake ,I think you just made half the bbjd guys in prostock nervous with this and all the superfarm guy also. I do agree that I can't remember anyone getting checked for cubic inches. all's we ever talk about is fuel and water, never cubic inches. I don't think over cubes are a problem in dss,lss or open ss, but I do wonder about ps and sf |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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Fan
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Anybody heard/seen of a way to check cubic inches on a diesel engine at a pull without taking head off. I have seen gas engines checked by taking out a spark plug and then using a pump on that cylinder while the engine is spun over with the starter. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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twobanger
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I'm no mechanic, but can you do a diesel engine the same way, just by pulling out the injector instead of the spark plug? |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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Registered: 09/03/2010 Posts: 393 |
I'm ok with using a puffer to spot ck cubes but if you are going any farther then get out the money. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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C
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Jake
On a local level Zorns Snoopy2 super farm was protested at one time. It was legal. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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C Downs
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Touchy subject since the invention of dirt itself. In my opinion, depending on the type of organization you are running with would depend on the use of cubic in checks.
There is more than one state organization in Illinois that has a CI check that takes less than a half an hour to confirm cubes. It is based on the volume of a cylinder. A spark plug or injector is removed. They use Marvel Mystery Oil and measure the cc's at TDC & BDC and perform third grade math and get a very accurate result. The oil is then pumped out of the cylinder and there is just a slight residue that burns off immediately once the vehicle is fired again. This doesn't cost a competitor any dollars and nothing is opened up in the dirt and "top secret" hardware isn't exposed. I know of one of those organizations also uses it to seal the motor at the beginning of the year. If you compete with out a seal your premiums and points are held until you can get the engine sealed. There are a lot of organizations that do not have the resources to get the man power to perform the checks on a regular basis. These are the groups that would probably be comfortable with the protest method. But if you are running a national group and have paid staff to "tech" and considering the amount of vehicle investment and the premium money involved, you should have the resources to enforce the CI rules put in place. Since it only takes a small amount of time, I can't see why national organizations can't do this at events. Especially when the competitors have to be there early and there is a dedicated tech staff. Sometimes when I am in conspiracy theory mode, I think that the national groups don't want to know if some of the top competitors are running big motors. As long as the show looks good from the stands and the iron goes fast we are better off not knowing. But then I think, "No way." The national organizations have too much integrity they wouldn't let tech slide just to keep things running smooth. 
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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perception
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You can buy a pump that measures the air volume and don't need oil. Pull all spark plugs and pushrods on the cyl and check. Not that easy on a diesel though.
Also the perception in pulling is that if you protest you're a crybaby. If you don't protest you're a crybaby. In other motorsports protests are common and expected. I wish pulling was that way. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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C Downs
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When the group that I was working with at the time was looking at the air volume check the issue was the cubic inch per cylinder. For instance they already had a "pump" for the automotive classes. When they called the manufacturer that was the largest volume per cylinder produced. The issue was the availability of the precision glass that is used in the tube. So if they would have been dealing with six cylinder engines that were less than 80ish CI they would have been able to adapt. But in the 600 (100 ci per cylinder) created a problem. They found the fluid kit from, if I remember correctly, Lance Merhtens (sp), and it was very inexpensive. With the number of tractors that were being checked some modifications were made to make the process more streamlined. Things like a more efficient pump and graduated beakers to prevent carpal tunnel and counting errors when pumping by hand.
The experience that I had with the group at the time was very positive in the cubic inch classes. It was easy to perform and non-invasive. It took one item of complaint (for the most part) out of the equation. Of course, it turned focus to other areas. As I am rambling, I think more to the point. This particular organization was state level with limited monetary and physical resources and enforced a rule that has been a major concern for years. Why wouldn't a national organization want to address the situation? They have the resources to put the questions to rest so why not? I know a few pullers on the national level and I have heard a few of them grumble about big motors over the years. I know some have not protested because they feel even if they are right and the other competitor is illegal, it would damage the class as a whole not just the individual. So once again, is tractor pulling its own worst enemy? |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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Registered: 03/25/2010 Posts: 78 |
Pullers inc. Out of Wisconsin does the cubic inch test for there pro farm and hot farm using diesel fuel and atf fluid. It takes about a half hour and is measured by how many cc's go into the cylinder then pull as much fluid out with the pump and then roll the motor over to get excess fluid out and tag the oil pan with a numbered seal |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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RDPT
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Jake I don't know if it is a good thing or not but I have a lot of experience with this topic. I have been protested three times in my pulling career the first was at Tampico ,In with Indiana Super Farm pullers in 1998 is was done by then tech official Phil jolliff. The second one was done in 2002 after a winning pull off pass at bowling green ,oh it was done by head tech Larry Richwine. The third one was done in 2012 at Terre Haute Indiana by head tech director John Mears. This post is not intended to start any controversy or to bash any of the organizations involved or people involved in each occasion the protest procedures were handled with professionalism and integrity,i guess it was intended to shed some light on the topic that there are cubic inch protest being performed by organizations. In each occasion we returned home with a tractor in pieces and lot of work that the protest money at the time was barely enough to cover the parts needed to put it back together. I have also experienced both sides of the rule book. In each occasion we were legal on cubic inch but we were suspended for a year and a day for a aftermarket head now weather you want to call me a cheater a puller who was pushing the rule book to far or in are opinion a gray area that didn't get talked about a lot until a protest is all water under the bridge but it has made me aware that on both sides of the the rule the fact that there has to be a protest to get things checked and that the punishment is what it is may need to be looked at in short it is a hard spot to be in from a puller and for the tech officials thanks for all you guys do with the website.
Merry Christmas Justin Wagler Real Deere Pulling Team |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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Anonymous User
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I think farmall puller has the right idea get out the money if its more than a easy check. What works best is random checks and if someone has a concern say something, I don't think anyone in the class we were pulling with was cheating as far as CI but I do know of times when weights were checked and they were a little off. I do think that any class can be cheated in. I was told that Littles built a engine for a hot stock or stock class (they did not pull it they built it for a customer) that was over 900ci. That is a lot of engine no matter what the class |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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me
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I like the method of using the oil to check. Using air and spinning the engine can be affected by starter speed. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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Long time puller
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Random checks should be made in every class in a club that have tech officials and the clubs that don't have tech officials Don't need any rules why have rules if theyre not checked .And I don't mean every night a random check could be anytime after a participant has 3 or4 wins its sad to say nobody cares if you have 600inches in a 400 inch class if you never win |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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Registered: 07/06/2010 Posts: 147 |
Thanks for the positive feed back C Downs. This is Lance
Mertens, I have put several of those kits together for various Groups . For those unfamiliar with the process no valve train Has to be disassembled , like with air pump. And cranking speed Does not matter. Just remove 1 injector and fill cylinder to desired Amount and use injector as a dipstick to verify cylinder is full. Then suck oil back out. Our club pumped and tagged engines before the second hook Every year for the first couple years, now it is randomly done Along with various other safety/rule checks by drawing 1 chip Out of a hat every week. If your motor does not have a seal on The pan the motor is pumped. No Bitching!!! It does not pay to make any rules that cannot or will not be Checked or inforced. The pump has been questioned and tested by measuring with The head off, it works. Lance Mertens Have a Merry Christmas! Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 03:21PM by IH1086. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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Registered: 03/14/2010 Posts: 135 |
We were checked in gordyville one year, they checked anyone that made the finals in the 9500 hot farm. They used a tube that measured the air volume from a cylinder. Not a big deal really. |
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Re: Cubic Inch Check
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In my area I am tired of well no body checks anything. There is a class at 472.
A local builder told me if I want to beat the fords I need lots more than 454. And that's a street class. Location eastern PA |
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