DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 05:46AM
Has anyone else wondered why it doesn't seem like the john deere can keep up in the dss class, or even the unlimiteds?
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 06:21AM
Actually, they can keep up quite well, it's just there are a lot more IH tractors that run on the national circuit. In the past few years, John Raymond and Sieferts have won GN hooks, and Demers made finals at Louisville. All 3 are a threat anytime they hook. However, most of the time you will have maybe 2 of these guys against 10 internationals, so the odds are that a red one will be on top.

As far as alcohol goes, TCOB, Bambi, and Loaded Gun are competitive, but again, there are over twice as many red ones in the class. Also, if we keep in mind the v8 tractors, Blackbourn is really, really hard to beat. Another tough JD is Alan Baballe, but I don't know if he is still pulling or not.

Same thing with LSS. Sandefur and Kuhn can run with anyone for one pass, but my observation is they tend to not do so well if they have to make a second pass either for a pulloff or sled reset. Just like the heavy class, the Chizek/Korth tractors are extremely hard to beat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2015 06:22AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 06:21AM
John Deere does not have a Hyper Max to do all R&D the Deere guys get credit doing it themselves. I turn it takes allot of $ and time to get there.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 10:38AM
Because there are no engine builders or aftermarket cylinder heads for John Deeres ?

Please tell 1985 I said hello.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 11:58AM
You really missed it.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 12:26PM
Another thing that I wonder about is why in the heck do the deere guys stick with the factory head design? I have seen several guys make billit deere heads that arent a cross flow design. Crutchfield's deere head is a crossflow head. Granted the pushrod runs through the center of the port, but it still has got to be far and away better design than the status quo.......? If you arr going to make a dss steel head- maybe try this design and level the playing field?
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 01:30PM
Pushrod runs thru middle of port. Explain to me how that works
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 03:18PM
Send me a message, and I will text you a picture. Tried to upload one, but picture files are to restrictive to upload anything from a mobile phone.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 01:46PM
So all of the Deere guys are doing all of their own R&D and building their own parts because nobody is doing any testing or building parts? Okay, if you say so. If you said that about the Massey guys, I'd buy it.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 01:59PM
Didn't say they are building there own parts! They just can't make one call to get everything. Is it really that hard to grasp?
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 03:04PM
there is more than one of thGN ssd that donot have a hyper head
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 03:47AM
Riverside has everything on the shelf for a Deere just like Hyper does for a Binder. Just as easy to call them.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 07:59AM
"Riverside has everything on the shelf for a Deere just like Hyper does for a Binder. Just as easy to call them."

While I understand the point you are making, the details of that statement couldn't be further from the truth. I can all but guarantee that if you call REI, this stuff is NOT on the shelf, despite what he will tell you. I have called them for much simpler items that definitely SHOULD be shelf items, and we are still waiting for that stuff.....two and a half months later.

So, to summarize, REI can get/make/modify the stuff you need for a Deere SS, but it will not just be on the shelf. I doubt any builder has the complete package "on the shelf".
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 11:59AM
Is there even an advantage to one over the other? At the end of the day the only thing IH or Deere about either is the block. everything else is aftermarket, and I have a hard time seeing the block limiting one over the other unless one is just too weak.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 12:16PM
That's the point there is no advantage It is just easier to do IH for the fact you can call hyper and get it all. The research has been done on there dyno with there part's. If you are running a Deere there's just you to figure it out. So it's not as easy and just takes more time so most just run IH for that reason.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 03:30AM
So Brent Long, Terry Blackburn, and Enrie Conner just call hyper max?
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 08:23AM
Did know this tread was about Alky's
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 10:03AM
Ernie Conner works on mainly smoke blowers!!!
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 12:18PM
The blocks aren't even factory for the IH.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 07, 2015 02:38PM
If you switch classes, look at the prostock class, john deeres run very well in it, so do they do all their own r & d in that class, I don't think so, I don't buy it either. They don't have to win it all. Darin
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 04:27AM
I was not talking about the green tractors not having hyper heads. I was talking about alot of red tractors not running hyper heads.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 08:27AM
The heads are only a small part of the picture. Name me one part's supplier that can build you a complete ready to run DSS motor ready to run from pump, inj, block, turbo's, cam, lifter, pistons, liners, rods, all the way thru from top to bottom and not rely on any other supplier for anything that is the point.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 02:15PM
I AM GOING TO TALK ABOUT NTPA ONLY. so remember this before you blast me!

NTPA rule is 650 cubes with up to 4 turbos in 3 pressure stages.

The old rule ending in 2013 was having to run a OEM block. Now 2014 and beyond billet blocks are aloud, so with component chassis and all other billet parts there is NOTHING stock in a tractor in the DSS class if you can afford it. Hold on I am getting there. With that being said I Hyper Max 4 bolt main blocks were legal in I think 2008 after they were given an IH part #. This is why "The King Of Smoke" sat out a year because his already illegal block that he was running didn't get passed in the rules till the next year. When he made his return. Hold on now I am going to get a little of topic here. He made his return with his now LEGAL block just to find an ORANGE tractor taking the title for the next 5 years (with a stock block). Sorry red and green guys just pointing out the facts. Then in 2014 billet blocks got passed in just the SSD class and now there is less tractors is the class.

As far as green tractors go they have the same rules as red ones do. If they want to go that far is up to them. ( FYI 3 red tractors ran the whole GN schedule. Do they all have billet blocks? I don't know, but would everyone else stop running the the full schedule if they didn't?)

I do know that Lemkes built a DSS motor for a guy in Minnesota.

With NTPA rules if you have a component chassis you can have any motor with any tin. There is a Moline with a JD motor in the PS class and 2 orange tractors with IH motors in the GN Alky SS class.

I maybe wrong with the years but I am not going to try to find old rule books. OK BLAST AWAY AT ME!!!!
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 02:35PM
I agree with most of what you said , but do you really think the billet block rule caused anyone to not run the full schedule ? I realize it is an improvement on block strength but how much performance is really gained? Did they really run that much better than in 2013? I would have thought most of them would have run regardless of differences in blocks to kind of feel out the class and rule changes , then if a noticeable advantage becomes obvious boycott the class/rule change .
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 09, 2015 05:50AM
Are any of them even running billet blocks? Last I heard none were.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 08, 2015 04:30PM
Not blasting what you say but one fact is not correct if you run 650 ci 2 pressure stages allowed 540 below 3 pressure stages.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 09, 2015 02:48AM
seems to have got away from original question. my opinion about red and green in super class i think works in pro and other classes. the super class just seems to have more red pullers and more red pullers willing to shell the cash out . i dont think it has any thing to do with which color is better in any said class . like was said a orange one can do really well. and in pro class with more green wins than red in ohio, other states can look different with red putting the hurt on green. just look at the different shade of red from ohio it can cause a lot of bad days to all the colors .
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 09, 2015 05:01PM
Thought the Agco Detroit 40 series connection is why those would be legal without unlimited rules?
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 17, 2015 03:39PM
Hypermax is the oem manufacturer for ih blocks.
The Detroit 40 series 466 is what they call a new-gen nevistar engine.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 09, 2015 06:10AM
The super stock class you also have to look at the pullers. Terry Blackbourn has always been someone to watch for when behind the wheel of a superstock. Joe Kwiatkowski on both color tractors has been a competitor. When the Gettinger's were in Super Stock Diesel they were Esdon Lehn's biggest rival. So the puller I think matters. After all this past year at Bowling Green in the first session of Super Stock Open a diesel John Deere got fifth place, granted it didn't have as easy looking of a run as the four alkys ahead of it, but it is an accomplishment for a diesel in the class.
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Re: DSS John Deere vs IH March 10, 2015 03:56PM
didn't the green ones have some factory help in old days and red ones caught up at some time for today youfigure that if a stinkin old allis can run up front a green one would have enough backers to do it pretty well youd thunk
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RE-lighting the subject March 18, 2015 04:34PM
heads you are right on the rule.

Parker fly, I do not know if any are running billets. I was just putting it out there.

TO INFO. You are half right in your post. If you go to IH and want a new 400 series block with there part # it will tell you to call Hyper, But the NTPA rule was OEM block or Factory replacement. This is how hyper got involved. Other wise it had to be in 500 production units to be legal. ( you cant tell me that in all the USA salvage yards there are no more STOCK 400 series blocks for pullers to run.) this is just more BS for red to try to stay on top.

So back to main topic I don't care what color it is CID is CID (no matter if it is SF or SS). How you get there is up to you. OEM Red and orange have cross flow head green didn't in that ERA ( we have long passed the stock parts ERA). The head is not the issue of the topic. Back to basics CID is CID if it is red or green or yellow or what ever color you get out of it what you put in to it.

RED wins DSS hooks and Green wins PS hooks. if you want something different to win all the time call Robbie for the other red or call Schramek for orange parts to win.

The bottom line is CID is CID if you have the money or the know how to make one color run better than the other you can be the next big thing in the world of pulling.
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