Gordyville sled problems January 16, 2016 10:20AM
How many sled malfunctions will it take before they switch to the backup sled so someone doesn't get killed?

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 16, 2016 02:06PM
hey mo1466.why don't you buy a sled,so they will have a perfect weekend. It would probably run as good as your red tractor

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 16, 2016 02:09PM
He asked a valid question. It did it 4 times before the backup was brought in. Bauer was crucified over the same thing last year.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 16, 2016 02:23PM
I can tell you that all problems were operator error

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 16, 2016 02:29PM
Then why was the backup sled brought in?

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 08:42PM
Pullers don't complain about hitting the sand pile.... They all want to hit it no matter what they tear up( within reason) it's all they talk about.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 12:57PM
My wife, myself and my friend traveled 10 hours to Pull at Gordyville. We loved every minute of it except for the part of us blowing a turbo. We have been to the pull twice and this is our first time pulling. Klint Tucker and everyone involved was great to work with. I am amazed at how fast they get the tractors in and out safely. This is a awesome pull. I would give anything to drive my tractor into the sand. Next year I will be back to try again. Jason Schultz is one of the best announcers that I've come across. Keep up the good work!! The Deere Commander Pulling Team, Loren and Desiree Paulsen.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 01:53PM
I think it looks worse than it was, sure doesn't bother me as bad as the tire a few years back, that had a bunch of potential for hitting someone, also when a motor blows in that space sure can make for a bunch of ducking.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 02:45PM
Quote
ol George
I think it looks worse than it was, sure doesn't bother me as bad as the tire a few years back, that had a bunch of potential for hitting someone, also when a motor blows in that space sure can make for a bunch of ducking.

So ol George, were you there when it happened?

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 12:05AM
sure enough

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 16, 2016 03:59PM
Funny it only happened on certain tractors, how accurate were the winning hooks? Something smells fishy

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 16, 2016 06:52PM
Buschwacker got a raw deal how can you move sled move reading eye and still get a good measurement. Very bad deal flagman flaged him further up on sand pile still got second? B s nothing right about it

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 01:07AM
Yes it was a bad deal for Bushwacker. Was he really first or second? We will never know for sure. Unfortunately mistakes happen and the best resolution at the time was to move the sled back to its marks. Is it a bad deal? Yes. But what is a better solution? I feel bad for Bushwacker but at the same time would like to congratulate the JD from Ohio on the win! (Name escapes me at the moment)

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 02:26AM
Ever heard of the new thing called a pulloff? Only fair way. Wasn't really a pull I guess just a hill climb with the guy willing to tear up his stuff and disobey the dumb flagman winning. Bull#$%&

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 06:33AM
Yes I've heard of a pulloff, although it was a floating finish all weekend so it's hard to change the rules in the middle of the game. That wouldn't be fair to the JD then. The other issue with a pulloff is would Bushwacker be willing to pull again that quickly, given he had just put so much heat into that motor?

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 10:15AM
If you notice in the video of the case hot farm he was paying attention notice when the box don't go past the point it should he hits the red button which should tell the flag man who should be paying attention an shut the tractor off right at that moment it won't stop that exact moment but it beats like what happen with Bauer at the farm show no red light an the flag man was not paying attention

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 12:48PM
Why didn't the sled operator pull the shut down cable himself, Instead of trying to alert the flagman about it, with flashing red lights it was already to late. Also I was wondering if the sled operator has away of locking down his brakes immediately.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 01:25PM
I've watched the video countless times of the Case that went to the top. The red lights on the sled came on and then within reaction time the driver lets off of throttle. Hitting the breaks on the sled would be much like locking up the brakes on a semi that weighs 35,000 pounds. You can't stop that type of forward motion in that short of a time frame. Everyone did what they could to keep it from happening, but then again that's why we keep the pile so high. Had it been a shorter pile like some indoor evens use he would have went thru the north side of the building. After the Case hit the pile like that we made a decision to change sleds just to be on the safe side until we could further investigate the problem with the first sled. We are going to address this in our next board meeting and make a decision on how we want to run this part of the show next year. What would the fans like to see done?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2016 02:01PM by Brandon Holcomb.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 01:31PM
I think it is insane that a 2 hundred thousand tractor has to put it and the driver in the sand to attempt to take 1st place!

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 01:58PM
It is insane that a guy who obviously works for/with the organization offers explanation and asks for suggestions, and the first two responses are just blowing smoke.

He is looking for constructive criticism/ suggestions, not bs.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 02:19PM
I agree Stretch. Brandon I'm not sure what you can do different. You've got top notch sleds there this was just one of those fluke things. The only suggestion I would make is next time swap sleds quicker. There was obviously something going on (jumping out of gear is what I was told from someone who would definitely know) and its definitely a sign of a larger problem that will most likely continue to repeat itself.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 02:28AM
Since no real name was used I don't known who to direct it to, but as far as the comment about people being in danger at Gordyville I'd just like to say we were observed by our insurance company for most of the show this year. Before the Saturday sessions we had a chance to meet with him and he was speechless at how well ran and organized our pull was. He had a few minor things he wants us to look into and the main one being were everyone thinks they need to stand in the corner by where the tractors come onto the track. I too feel that is a safety issue and hope that we can find a way to resolve that as asking and telling people not to group up there just isn't working. Like any motorsports event there is always that slight chance of someone having an accident but most common sense people understand that when they walk in the door. Trust me I'm not afraid to call someone out or get security involved if I see something that isn't safe. I had to have security remove several people from places they didn't need to be this weekend.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 04:00AM
Quote
Brandon Holcomb
Since no real name was used I don't known who to direct it to, but as far as the comment about people being in danger at Gordyville I'd just like to say we were observed by our insurance company for most of the show this year. Before the Saturday sessions we had a chance to meet with him and he was speechless at how well ran and organized our pull was. He had a few minor things he wants us to look into and the main one being were everyone thinks they need to stand in the corner by where the tractors come onto the track. I too feel that is a safety issue and hope that we can find a way to resolve that as asking and telling people not to group up there just isn't working. Like any motorsports event there is always that slight chance of someone having an accident but most common sense people understand that when they walk in the door. Trust me I'm not afraid to call someone out or get security involved if I see something that isn't safe. I had to have security remove several people from places they didn't need to be this weekend.

I am glad you said that about security. What I noticed were people walking behind the pile next to the door while tractors were pulling. I noticed it about 5 times on Saturday. Now common sense should tell people themselves not to do that, but as we know, if common sense were common, everyone would have it! I might suggest to put a security guard on each side of that pile to keep that from happening.

To "rigged" January 17, 2016 02:23PM
Dear "Rigged:"

I will be happy to let you post if you use your real name when you make assertions of cheating. No doubt certain parts of the weekend could have went better; That said you need to be prepared to identify yourself and provide credible examples for your position if you post again. Thank you.



Bryan Lively -

Photos

Youtube
TwitterFacebookThe HOOK Magazine Blog

Sled issues at Gordyville January 17, 2016 02:59PM
No pull is ever perfect and hind sight is always 20/20.

I do know Klint and the team have discussed and are discussing the areas of opportunity for next year as we type on here. I am asking ?'s on my face book pages and gathering info from spectators and pullers on what they would like to see at Gordyville in 2017 regarding how many tractors do you want to see in the sand? It is tough to be a promoter, sled operator and perfect all at the same time.

I am personally gratefully that we have indoor pulls like Gordyville that gives us a chance for indoor pulling, lets work together to make Gordyville better. Klint always answers his phone, if not he will call you back if you leave him a message 309-712-1406. Don't be part of the problem, be a part of the solution.



Jason Schultz
Call or Text 608 604 5068
Email jason@beermoneypullingteam.com
Beer Money Pulling Team Merchandise [beermoneypullingteam.com]

Gordyville is the pullers pull January 18, 2016 08:44AM
It's really simple, if you have a problem with Gordyville, stay home.

Had a great time once again this year, thanks Klint and crew!

Wade

Re: Gordyville is the pullers pull January 18, 2016 12:16PM
I had a great time. I thought it was a well run pull. maybe not perfect but I'll still be back.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 04:13PM
That's exactly what happens when the red light comes on, box brakes are engaged, and usually kill switch has been pulled

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 03:42PM
Well put Jason!
I just want to commit and say I thought Klint and the crew did an excellent job. This was my first trip to Gordyville along with my 12 year old son and some friends. It's easy to point fingers and criticize but as we know things can get out of hand in a hurry when it comes to pulling. That sled was up and down that track 1000 times this past few days...???? All the safety things were in place and all is well.

Put the top guys in the pile!

On another note I would like to thank Justin for his incredible work on the Minni Mo (Full Metal Jacket) my son won with the tractor raffle!

Thanks

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 04:55PM
Compared to what went on in murray ky, Gordyville was a success! The things that transpired in Murray was absolutely rediculous! When you endanger the drivers, operators, officials and the people on the sidelines you've gone to far! I live 15 mins from murray and drive 4 hrs to Gordyville! Murray can take the sled and back it up into the arena entrance, put a pile at end of the track exactly like Gordyville, you can't run a light super or two wheel drive truck into a hole and expect no one to hit the wall! Was matter of time! I'm no promoter by no means but I know how much money and pride I've got in the tractor I'm building and the last thing I want to do is crash it!! I don't know Klint and his crew personally but I've been going the last 4 years and I believe they do a great job for the fans and pullers... If they didn't I don't think they'd have the numbers they do! And I look forward to hopefully hooking there in the future!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2016 05:03PM by bmohler.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 17, 2016 05:07PM
Quote
bmohler
Compared to what went on in murray ky a Gordyville was a success! The things that transpired in Murray was absolutely rediculous! When you endanger the drivers, operators, officials and the people on the sidelines you've gone to far! I live 15 mins from murray and drive 4 hrs to Gordyville! Murray can take the sled and back it up into the arena entrance, put a pile at end of the track exactly like Gordyville, you can't run a light super or two wheel drive truck into a whole and expect no one to hit the wall! Was matter of time! I'm no promoter by no means but I know how money and pride I've got in the tractor I'm building and the last thing I want to do is crash it!! I don't know Klint and his crew personally but I've been going the last 4 years and I believe they do a great job for the fans and pullers... If they didn't I don't think they'd have the numbers they do! And I look forward to hopefully hooking there in the future!!

Believe me. People were endangered at Gordyville also. I saw things going on there that no one wants to say anything about. So I won't either.

The real deal about Gordyville January 18, 2016 01:41AM
I have been watching the comments about Gordyville and I think the one thing I always notice is the underlying reason for the post. There is ALWAYS an agenda:

1-Some times it's a puller that thought they should have won the class. They spent a lot of money on the so called “best parts” so they must have got cheated.

2-Or the post that always promote one association while slamming another in the same thread.

3-But I think the most ridiculous post of all is that the pulls are rigged. That just makes no sense, do they really believe that the promoter or sled operator would cheat so a certain puller would win. Why would they do that, did some guy on a Farm Stock offer the sled operator $10 to fix the hook. If anyone has meet or knows Dave Hager you would realize just how ridiculous that sounds. Dave runs a stand-up show, NO question.

Am I saying that Gordyville or any other show are flawless, no, however knowing Klint I have come to see that they take every constructive suggestion seriously and are always working to make improvements for both the pullers and the fans.

So I believe that by and large the majority or these posts are agenda driven. Next time you read a post on how great one organization or show is and within the same thread how bad another organization-series indoor show is ask yourself who posted that and why.

Gordyville is a special event, It is the place where hooded tractor get a chance to hook indoors on a power track, where fans are offered great announcing, good seating, vendors to chat with and nonstop, fast paced pulling.

And like someone already pointed out already the model tractor raffle done by Justin Stuckenschneider for charity is so special. I do not know the exact amount of money that Justin has raised over the years is but I believe that it's in the $200,000 dollar range. Thank You Justin and Klint



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News

Re: The real deal about Gordyville January 18, 2016 02:31AM
Very well said Mr. Morgan. I think most people just want something to complain about. I believe the show itself is one of the best. Some of the other things going on there may need tweaking but it's still a great place to see every class of tractor.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 10:25AM
Whose sled did they have at Gordy and Murray Ky? Just curious?

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 10:34AM
Hill sled with USA pullers

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 10:53AM
Gordy was both hager sleds. Murray was jim hills who runs Ken-Ten pullers.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 01:25PM
I like Bungart's sleds

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 03:24PM
This is getting old,when a piece of equipment is used that much in that short of a time,stuff happens,knowones fault,I use equipment all the time,if you use it anything can happen.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 12:37PM
Just to clarify, I was not bashing any sled or operator. I was not bashing the pull or the people who put it on in any way. I was not accusing anyone of cheating. I was simply asking a question from a spectators view. I enjoy going to Gordyville to watch tractors pull. I would hate to see an accident happen that would ruin pulling for everyone.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 03:02PM
Since it's a race and not a pull anymore maybe they should put parachutes on the sled. You know all in the name safety and such.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 18, 2016 05:18PM
I know one thing this thread should go away I've known Dave Hager since the 60's and we should be talking about putting him in the hall of fame instead of this bs. All things mechanical break down and no amount of maintenence can prevent it.How many years and how many hooks at Gordyville and this is the first problem? I say give him and Klint a break!

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 12:24AM
To get people from one side of the track to other side, put up a make shift tent on the outside of your building from one walk in door to the other walk in door,you'll put people out danger and then you can lengthen your track. Keep up the good work, you guys put on a great show, I try to make it every year.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 05:08AM
To "just a fan" that would like a tent outside of the building for many reasons, including "lengthening the track", the dirt stops at the front of the sand pile. Therefore, the track cannot be any longer. I agree that this post needs to go away. The bashing is from MANY people that don't know the first thing about operating a sled. I'm also a firm believer that if you're going to post or comment on a thread on here, you need to have your name in the post or in your profile. WAY too many people can hide behind a keyboard these days.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 10:44AM
Hi Mr Johnson I'm the engineer that designed and installed Daves new console. You are obviously not very well informed on the "old dog". This legend with two minutes of instructions operated the RevLimter with the exact same console at Keystone last year flawlessly!!!! We are still investigating the root cause but at this time it looks like we have a intermittent electrical connection problem most likely caused by the bad weather Dave drove through on the way to Gordeyville. Thank you Jeff Butz PS the Mooshine crew and Dave are working together on the new sled, sorry.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 10:48AM
I was pleased with the job you guys did at Gordyville Jeff and I'm looking forward to working with you more in the future. Thanks for everything.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 01:46AM
I'm a sled owner and operator. I don't do the big pulls. Lots of antiques and also do the so called brush pulls. People need to realize that anything mechanical can break and malfunction. When doing short track pulls like Gordyville,Louisville,Murray. The reaction time is very minimal we have went from 400 hp tractors to 2/3/4000 hp. And from 10/12 mph to 25 plus. It's always the sled operators fault I've found this out even at brush pulls. I don't care who wins any pull. I'm not gonna change the 1/2/3 place finish for anybody. And the mechanics on sleds are very complicated. Computers. Drop switches. Hydraulics. Accumulater systems for pan push down. To everybody that's wants to complain about sleds maybe you should own one or two. Hager has some of best sleds out here along with Bauer and bungarts. We have about 150 sleds in NASOA All certified every year. Bottom line is @#$%& happens We al need to understand this.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 04:23AM
Is there any safety or inspection or making sure sleds are properly maintained before they can be put into service

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 05:00AM
If a sled is a member of the NASOA (most are) they are inspected and certified each year.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 03:19PM
Quote
Affirmative
If a sled is a member of the NASOA (most are) they are inspected and certified each year.

Then why is it that when I looked at the certification sticker on the sled at Gordy after the accident with the Case, that I saw a 2013 certification sticker?

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 03:35PM
He probably just hasn't put the newer stickers on. Dave hager is president of the NASOA.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 03:39PM
A few details I left out that may be important: inspection each year isn't optional. Once you send in your membership for the new year either Steve Zimmer or Larry Richwine come and inspect the sled. If you pass a new sticker is mailed to you bid you do not pass you cannot carry the nasoa's insurance.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 19, 2016 04:06PM
Quote
Affirmative
He probably just hasn't put the newer stickers on. Dave hager is president of the NASOA.

I don't give a flyin ef if he is president of the NASOA. The dang sticker better be on it. I mean this is 2016, not 2013.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 20, 2016 01:35AM
NASQE is a good watchdog on these sleds and a lot of them couldn't get insurance without it, but I don't care how many stickers you get or have things happen and I believe Dave Hager is one of the best along with Bauer's, Bungart's, and a lot of others out there. Lighten up guys it sometimes take more than one time of a sled messing up to know you have a problem, Looks to me like they got on the problem as soon as they knew they had one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2016 01:36AM by farmall puller.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 21, 2016 06:07AM
the SLED INSPECTOR was there all day fri and sat ;nasoa has a inspector and every sled is done once a year ;and as for the show if you don't like how its run go to football game or?? no sled owner or crew has ever cheated that I know off ;I have known dave hagar for over 35+ years; and every sled has problems this year it was dave;s ; it was elect; problem ; i;am; very sure its fixed and done right on sunday or Monday; there are two shows that run this smooth klints at gordyville and slama;s at Hillsboro wis ;. klint a great job !!!!!

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 21, 2016 11:43AM
Like always no one addresses the real problem,we all want carnage and speed,disaster waiting to happen,but the truth is too much power,speed and out off control units in too small and confined area,too short to pull at those speeds.And way too many people in close proximity of all areas.I like the drama and excitement as much as the other people,but we are flirting with a huge accident waiting to unfold. I think that maybe for indoor short tracks,the sled needs to be set tighter from the git go.Save the speeds for outdoors where the distance have increased to 350 plus at some venues.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 21, 2016 12:40PM
I couldn't disagree with you more, why would it be safer to let the pullers go faster on an outdoor track that is 350 long makes no sense to me. Just how fast do you think they are get going on the 245' Gordyville track vs the speed you can reach on a 350' track? Not only is the shut down way longer with the greater speed but the chances of getting the sled sideways is much higher. For the people that want to slow the sled down are missing that speed equals excitement. The days of the slow sled are gone, do not waste your time on trying to wish back the 1970s.

Gordyville is one of the safer tracks for all indoor pulling events. I think everyone is making way to much out of a couple sled issues. Trying to chase an electrical issue is one of the, if not the hardest trouble shooting jobs for any mechanic. Gordyville has had some of the best, well run shows of any indoor pulls, bar none, in the last 10 years. I have been to state, national shows where the safety of fans and pullers is far more dangerous than Gordyville. Stands to close, no shut down area, poor lighting, inadequate sideline barriers.

To imply that Dave Hager does not run a fair and honest show is beyond absurd. There is no one more trust worthy in the sport today, no one!
Like I wrote before, there is usually some agenda behind these post. While I have no problem with people posting that there where some sled malfunctions at Gordyville, the posts that say the show is rigged or unfair are starting to take on a ridiculous tone.



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 22, 2016 01:25AM
Well said Dick Morgan

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 22, 2016 08:22AM
With all of the recent near misses involving this similar issue, is it time to install box monitoring systems on the sleds like they do overseas to automatically shut everything down when the box and wheel speed do not agree? I'm surprised it hasn't be brought up in this thread yet.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 22, 2016 09:05AM
That sounds like a good safety idea over here in U.S.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 22, 2016 10:26AM
So say the track is 250ft. The tractor is doing say 30-35 mph going down the track. Sled pan drops 125 -150ft back wheels are off the ground at this point. So you have a 100 or so feet to stop all momentum. Sled weight 35000 lbs. Boy that is not alot of shut down space. I guess my ? is how fast is fast enough. Drag racer have shoots to help them slow down the real fast cars. What do they weigh 2000lbs to 3000lbs. Hey I like speed too. But when something breaks then what.If you have 100 ft to make a split decision to pull the kill switch or not. I don't what the right answers is.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 22, 2016 11:07AM
If the pan has "dropped", it's going to be easier to stop the tractor especially if the kill is setup to activate the push down as well. They stop pretty fast that way, the issue is when the box doesn't move and the operator doesn't notice in time, that is the purpose of a monitoring system, removing the human error and slow response time, giving the tractor less time to gain momentum and more room to stop it.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 23, 2016 03:10AM
Dick M. and all others,disrespectful replies cause hard feelings for all who view,enjoy,use and like this venue.Again,you all missed my point,speed,danger and disaster waiting to happen is the reason we go,watch,pull,participate and enjoy any sport.I am not a 70's thinker or old fogey,but the fact that high tech advances have made the speed,danger and incidents of mishap occur more have OVERPOWERED increases in safety.(No Pun intended) your arguments about outdoor events show the narrow blinders on thinking,space alone makes outdoor pulling safer.Period !!!!!!!!!!! The rapid change from go to slow indoors is where the machinery issues comes into play,no time for any miscalculations.The facts that indoor short tracks bring about more issues is fact,period,no ones fault,blame or cheating,just physics facts.Any confined space event of any kind invites much more difficult problems,just ask O>S>H>A> I am not picking on any one event,venue or pull,just a general statement about why all the issues with indoor pulls.Anyone ever see a "BULL IN A CHINA CLOSET" ? With the power we make use,like and think we gotta have,speeds doubled from the 70's and the sleds weights have not increased with the power increases,tires,advances in equipment in general. Don't mind me,--but at some point lawyers,insurance and a real serious accident will make all this front burner.NHRA has shortened the track and restricted fuels to increase safety. Still the fastest sport,most exciting. If Europe has better safety efforts in place we should be open to adapting those features.Thanks for the space,lists of events,classifieds,pics,forums and info, good to see the number of people using this available site.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 23, 2016 04:00AM
Thanks for your response. One thing you said was the NHRA has shortened their tracks for safety. However I do have to agree there are a couple indoor events that are not setup to be as safe as they could be. The cement barriers that are in use are not sufficient to stop a moving vehicle. And the seats at the finish line end of the track should not be sold. A very dangerous spot if the vehicle should climb the sand pile.



Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2016 04:26AM by Dick Morgan.

Re: Gordyville sled problems January 23, 2016 10:21AM
NHRA did shorten and now they run faster than ever. Pullers will do the same thing. No matter the limits somebody will always build a better mousetrap. We will just have to learn to live with it.

Author:

Your Email:


Subject:


Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically. If the code is hard to read, then just try to guess it right. If you enter the wrong code, a new image is created and you get another chance to enter it right.
Message:
Website Statistics
Global: Topics: 38,675, Posts: 229,776, Members: 3,327.
This forum: Topics: 37,078, Posts: 225,949.

Our newest member Jason