05:10:29pm, Sunday, May 19, 2024
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NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Moderator Registered: 02/28/2011 Posts: 622 |
Again Thank you for the response to the Series, tonight we highlight another piece of the Puzzle! Hope you all will share your thoughts and opinions on a new class schedule and making the field a bit more difficult! Class Changes Miles Krieger My Blog: Miles Beyond 300 [www.facebook.com] milesbeyond300@gmail |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
Miles; as always I enjoy your blog and look forward to your view of the sport.
However I believe that the LSS have earned a slot in the Saturday night finals. Run them on Thursday or Friday night and bring 6 back for the finals. I also would rather see the Light PS in the Saturday night finals, the class offers more color than any other class except the LSS class. While the Limited PS class is exciting and a growing class I'm not sure that by replacing the SF in the Saturday night finals with the 4.1s you are really gaining anything. Another class that needs addressing is the PS class with 12 in the finals, I believe the show and class would be better served with a 8 tractor finals. And I believe there is a place for the LLSS in the Saturday afternoon session, the class is probably the fastest growing class in all of tractor pulling at the present time, great color, plenty of excitement and a level of unpredictably with every hook. One thing that I would really like to see changed is the awards ceremony for the non-finals sessions. All's is does is waste time and drag out the show. I believe that with your and Jakes idea's of going to 4 classes per night the time taken for photo's and awards would push the show past midnight. I have seen so many pullers not come back for the pulloff because some have already put 2 passes on their vehicles and they know the real goal is to get a healthy vehicle in the finals. And lets face it, you really haven't won anything, just qualified for the Big show, the finals. Make the finals special, not just another night. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2016 02:20PM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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antique
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why don't they just add antiques to the farm show also, pretty much what LLSS is anyway. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 633 |
I think one thing that could help with the fume problem would be to have the USS and Lt SS use a smoke tube. When the USS class runs they seem to be worse than the Mods and even if they aren't that is a possible solution to the breathing issues we have in the stands.
As far as the hauler parking it looks to me like they could use the lot just across the road from the current pit parking. That lot had a few haulers in it this year but I never did see it anywhere near full of cars and pickups. The Lt. Unlimited mod tractors put on a good show and would be a good addition but I don't ever see that happening,too many people already complain about the noise classes as it is. If people don't want the Mods I would just as soon not be there. Having said that how many of the people that "DON'T " leave their seats during the noise classes would just stay home? I wouldn't because I like all classes of pulling but I would bet that there are a lot of people that would not come if there were no noise clases. S'no Farmer |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I have the feeling that raw alcohol in a smoke tube may be a receipt for disaster. Sounds like a bomb ready to go off. Not sure if there really is a solution to the fumes other than better ceiling fans. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 343 |
I agree with you Dick, but really would like to see it tested, maybe at an out door venue to see if it would work, would make all venues better. Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
How do dyno guys get exhaust out without this happening, it may be an indication as to the volatility of a fat tuneup like OSS/LSS have and a source to spark it off....Ive only seen a diesel on a dyno, no exhaust fan assist from what I recall just a smoke tube out the side of the building.
Bryan Lively - 
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 343 |
Yeah I do not want to see that happen, but maybe crank up the fan and just let it suck out what it will while the puller pulls. Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Anonymous User
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I too have wondered how much it would help to leave the smoke tube hooked up and running while the alcohol engines pull. I'd think it would help pull some of the fumes out. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Anonymous User
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I have to agree with Dick on this one. Dropping the Pro Stocks down a few and adding a finals for LSS is a great idea in my opinion. Pro Stocks are great, and I have a lot of friends in that class, but I feel there are many other classes out there that can draw a crowd the same as PS, offer more color in the show, and possibly bring more crowd from different regions to see classes such as the Light Pro Stock. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Anonymous User
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I do want to add that I to really enjoy Miles blogs and hope they keep coming. I'm not criticizing his views in any way, just giving my educated opinion. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Just a fan
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These suggestions are a great idea to bring some variety to the show and will no doubt bring some excitement from a genre of fans who don't normally have their class at the nfms.
One key issue that is eroding the credibility and stature of the nfms is the competition is scripted. Until this issue is ended you will continue to see the decline. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I love the Light Pro class and the Limited Pro and Super Farm are both great classes as well, but is there truly enough distinction between them to have all three of them on Wednesday night? In my opinion they are just too close in HP to have all three on the same night. Even worse there really isn't a visual distinction between them either, they all run 24.5 tires, all have a single stack/smoke tube, ect...
Again, this is just my opinion but I think you need to pair a high horsepower diesel class with a lower horsepower class to highlight their distinctions. This was one of the biggest things I struggled with when I put my proposed NFMS schedule together. Thanks for the series. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Supertiquer
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Jake, I really hope for the day when everyone gets over the one turbo classes will save the pulling world bs. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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IH Farmer
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Come on Jake, you can't say that Lim Pro, Super Farm and Light Pro are all similar HP, Lim Pro and Light Pro are similar but they are not about 800 HP more than super farm now! No way you can say that Super Farm puts on the same show as the other two. The only problem I have with Miles schedule is that if you put all three classes on Wednesday night it would make Super Farm look awful after everybody would see the show the other two classes put on. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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agree
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Jake I agree completely. I don't have a problem with all those classes being there but definitely not on the same night. An uninformed fan (and there's a lot of them there who only came to the pull because they were at the show) will never know the difference in them. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
All classes began as local classes that begat state and regional versions and some eventually a national version. Light Pro, Limited 4.1, and LLSS are well-developed enough in enough different hot spots that you can get 15-16 tractors that will all contest for the win. Can the same be said for LSS, Open Super, and Diesel Super at this point? We cannot deny that there's a separation of 3-6 tractors from the rest of the pack in those three classes that have prime space on the Louisville schedule.
In my opinion the "antique" comment towards LLSS is possibly from a viewpoint of someone who has 1) never seen the class run or 2) seen a poor session of them run. It is THE class of color and variety and puts on a very good show, a stance I have had for many years now. I like the idea of the light mod class to come in, possibly the Pro Mod 4x4s also. Miles your suggestions and thoughts are generating some good discussion, and thanks for your efforts in saying some things that needed to be said. To really kick the wheels off the wagon and to address Jake's thoughts about the LPS/4.1/SF being bunched together on the same evening because of an identity crisis for casual fans between the three classes, In my opinion if the name of the class includes the word "Farm" in it that class should have a 20.8 tire size max... Bryan Lively -
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Just Saying
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This is the Championship tractor pull....Kind of hard to have when you are wanting reginal classes.....IF you are going to pick a class...at least pick one that is national...not one that is in you back yard |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I am not really sure if all classes need to be national type classes. I really don't believe that people will stay home if the LLSS, Lt.PS, Lm.PS, or Ltd.Unlimited mods are pulling. Tractor pulling is selling entertainment, it's about giving the ticket buying public something fresh and exciting. The show now is exclusively national classes and there is a problem. And with only having national classes the list of competitors becomes limited. I know people love to put up lists of pullers that Could come to the show. However the reality is they don't choose to pull there. For what ever reason the show is attracting fewer applicants every year. Time to open up the event. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Registered: 04/06/2008 Posts: 387 |
I have been looking over ways to "freshen" up the CTP at the farm show as well. The one thing I keep hearing is by adding the lt pro stock it will add color to the show. Where? Looking over the NTPA and Gordyville results it looks like another red and green class. I don't see all the color some folks seem to see? Same story with the limited pro class. This would not be a problem adding these if the crowd was all farm tractor oriented, which leads to my next question...............
What kind of fan actually goes to the CTP? For years, it was thought that this crowd is the most knowledgeable of all pulling crowds. One look around and you will see many past and present pullers sprinkled all throughout Freedom Hall. But is that just a small percentage? Are a lot of fans just going because they spent the day at the farm show and it is the "thing" to do? Or are others just plain pulling fans? Myself I am a fan of the "noise" classes, mods and 2wds. When these classes fire up and run half of Freedom Hall empties out and heads to the concourse. That shows that either the crowd likes their traditional tractors or don't like the noise and fumes, or both. Dan Mayer www.pulling-reference.com Dedicated to Preserving the History of Tractor & Truck Pulling |
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I have added a poll at the top of the page.
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,449 |
I have added a poll to the top of the page. To see what is the feeling for other classes in the show. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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I still love Louisville but for me its to much of the same thing that's just what pulling has become. In order to keep these things together as best they can people buy the best parts to hold up . That means Engler rear and frame, Profab or Atlas transmission, Hypermax or Riverside engine (Few other top notch builders this is just example)Not much difference in equipment. My first show was mid 70's when smoke tube came over driver and down over hood every tractor had its own (personality) .Its came along way from back then when it was common for severe break downs .Maybe we like to see someone blow a engine I don't know but it 's not the same to me. SSD tractors are better than pro stock for personality . Pro stocks are AWSOME but they mostly look and run the same. I am a smoke tractor fan don't care for mods much, 5 or 6 at a time is enough for me .Freedom hall is to short to let these grand national tractors get up and run like there meant to hurts show also. Can take family on Florida vacation for a week for the price of a 4 day tractor pull .Smoke machine should be top notch unit no exuse for torn tube as often as it has been, replace it when its worn out .I remember when you were lucky to get a ticket for any night .Hope it gets better but still need top tractors in national classes to claim the best of the best .I under stand we are much safer as spectaters due to cookie cutter tractors but well I dunno!!!!! |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Moderator Registered: 02/28/2011 Posts: 622 |
Wow, thank you for the discussion and the postings with regard to the new class schedule! My hope with this whole series was to generate some discussion, while we aren't the people who ultimately have any influence, maybe someone will stumble on the series.
I want to address a few things, first and foremost, my schedule is simply my take on a way to make some changes. I want to highlight a few points on here as to my process etc. My initial idea was to push Pro Stock, Super Stock back and give them a chance to not be the guinea pigs. I hope that doesn't come off wrong, but my theory is that three of the premier classes in the show are running on Wednesday Night currently. They hit an untested track, sled setting smoke tube, etc. Let's allow those guys the chance to run later in the week, which if we keep three Pro Stock sessions that means they will run the next three leading into Finals. Dick and Brandon, thank you for your continued support of my efforts and your honesty on each project I bring forth. I personally don't see the Light Supers in the finals on Saturday Night and here is why; Alcohol Motors- Maybe we need to move another class down to replace them but putting Light Supers in on Saturday Night makes TWD, Open Super, Modified, and Light Super. If you have 6 classes, four of them are on alcohol and by the end of the session we will all have cried our eyes out from the fumes etc. I like the Light Super class for its unpredictability in that breakage occurs but also tremendous passes can be made, with that said, as Mr. Lively said it is totally correct the separation between x amount of tractors is also a detractor on my accord. It isn't meant to be a bias, as I could say the same about a few other classes that have finals. As for the Pro Stock class, I see your point on moving the number down for finals, and maybe instead of three sessions of 12, you run two sessions of 16 and cut the field to 8 for finals. In doing so, you free up another session for a class to compete. Jake, I see your point and it may warrant a rewrite of the schedule but I go to Gordyville every year, I love it! I love the classes that run there and that is me saying it, when most folks know that I love the Mods, Minis, and TWD trucks. Some sessions for sure the finals you can watch the same tractors run etc, so my thought for the three classes is, the With only 10 in the class, you could be right it might be hard to differentiate but I think the excitement of how close each individual class brings an element of excitement. I know Jake has thrown his schedule out there which includes a Light Mod class etc, please post some thoughts on what you envision a class line up being? I have read about Pro Mod Four Wheel Drives, and a few other classes that maybe should have been included, but from my perspective on what I see bringing the most interest, I think the lineup may pull more people. I am not sure I added much to this discussion but enjoy the commentary coming from so many people. Thanks again for the continued following of the site. Please share the articles with your friends, the idea is for good discussion. Im not afraid of anyone being critical, so if you don't like the idea throw an alteration to it. Miles Krieger My Blog: Miles Beyond 300 [www.facebook.com] milesbeyond300@gmail |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Chip42
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Wednesday 6:30 ($30.00 opening day special)
(12)6200lbs. Two Wheel Drive--3 advance (12)9300lbs. Super Farm--6 advance (12)9500lbs. Limited Pro Stock--6 advance (12)7500lbs. Modified--6 advance Thursday 6:30 ($35.00) (12)8500lbs. Light Pro Stock--6 advance (12)7500lbs. Super Stock Diesel Trucks--6 advance (12)10200lbs. Pro Stock--4 advance (12)8000lbs. Super Stock Open--6 advance Friday 6:30 ($35.00) (12)6400lbs. Light Super Stock--6 advance (12)8200lbs. Diesel Super Stock--6 advance (12)6200lbs. Light Modified--6 advance (12)10200lbs. Pro Stock--4 advance Saturday 12:00 ($35.00) (12)6200lbs. Two Wheel Drive--3 advance (12)10200lbs. Pro Stock--4 advance (6)Light Pro Stock FINALS (6)Light Modified FINALS (6)Limited Pro Stock FINALS (6)Light Super Stock FINALS Saturday 6:30 ($40.00) (6)Modified FINALS (6)Super Farm FINALS (6)Super Stock Diesel Truck FINALS (6)Two Wheel Drive FINALS (6)Diesel Super Stock FINALS (6)Super Stock Open FINALS (12)Pro Stock FINALS As for the Light Mod Class, I up'd the weight from the 6000lbs light unlimited to 6200lbs to help include some state,regional, or outlaw modifieds to pair with NTPA Light Unlimiteds. My class lineup has a simple number of 48 hooks per session while adding variety to the show along with some finals taking place Saturday Afternoon. Plus, you could have a discount for a full set of tickets to bring the price down from $175.00 for all 5 sessions to $170.00 or $165.00. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,350 |
Under this system, twd gets the shaft. If PS gets 4 advancers then twd should also. Only adds 2 more vehicles to finals. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Chip42
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I understand what you are saying...I would be fine with that but I was just trying to keep things orderly with 48 hooks a night. It is not much different of a percentage than what it is now(taking 4 out of 15). You could also say that there should be 18 prostocks now since dss and mods qualify with a top 6 finish out of 15. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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not a keyboard puller
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Wednesday
Super Farm 15 (4) Two Wheel Drive 15 (4) Pro Stocks 15 (4) Thursday Super Farm 15 (4) Light Mod 15 (5) Pro Stocks 15 (4) Friday Mods 10 (5) USS 10 (5) Two Wheel Drive 15 (4) DSS 10 (5) Saturday Afternoon LSS 15 Limited Pro (4.1) 15 Pro Stocks 15 (4) Saturday Night Super Farm 8 Mods 5 USS 5 DSS 5 Two Wheel Drive 8 Light Mod 5 Pro Stocks 12 According to the poll, the Pros are the favorite class. Until the popularity/number of tractors dwindles, three classes should be shown. LSS is the second most popular, but I believe there isnt enough tractors for two classes. Super Farm is the third most popular, so two classes were retained. Light mods were added. Not sure about the rules, but mixing Ntpa light mods and allowing Outlaw mods would bring new iron. Mods, DSS, and USS were brought down to 10 to prevent dillution of vehicle quality. 4.1 limited pros were added because I believe that there is more nationwide unison of rules and more vehicles. Four wheel drive trucks are not listed due to the difficulty moving indoors. |
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Full pull mark?
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,350 |
Did NFMS establish a full pull distance for the whole event, or was it established at some point after each class started for this year? |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 343 |
I want to add my opinion on the LLSS class, now, Do I really think it is ready to be in Louisville, I don't know, I really would like to see it, but with all the organizations that have it now you could pull the top 3 from each organization and have 30 of them, and that would make for a great Championship pull. I would make it top 3 points finishers for the year and if those three do not accept step down but do not go below #6 And that would make the class improve for all organizations, because if the luster comes back full circle, everyone would work harder to get to the Championship Pull in LOUISVILLE...... Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Supertiquer
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Eric, I feel that the llss class needs to be there and I don't even pull in it. But through the years, I have heard of so many complaints about how pulling needs more colors that it is PAST time that the class is not there. The class HAS colors and LOTS of them. It should be at the FARM SHOW! Now I didn't vote for it in Dicks' poll. But that does not mean that I don't think it shouldn't be there. I wanted to vote for it along with 2 other classes, but I couldn't do it that way. |
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Re: NFMS Part #3 Reflection
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 343 |
And I want to add great job Miles, and this is really getting discussions going to Improve the sport as a whole. Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
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More classes-one big issue:
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
So....theoretically The committee and fair board says "Yes, we like the format that has been talked about on the internet lets try it.....but tell us where do we park all of the additional haulers?"
Space is at a premium on the grounds the week of NFMS and 4 more classes at 12 vehicles each could be up to 48 new haulers on campus, not counting those haulers possibly packing 2 vehicles in....it is a question that will have to be answered to make these ideas work. Bryan Lively -
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Re: More classes-one big issue:
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Chip42
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Actually, my proposed class lineup would have less competitors than what the pull has now if you add the numbers up. I understand that the committee and fairboard members are probably not going to read my posts but it is fun to throw together ideas like this. I just tried to add a variety to the show and make it more of an honor to be chosen seeing there are less spots for every class. |
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Re: More classes-one big issue:
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Chip,
Thanks for adding to the discussion. I'm a tractor guy so I like your schedule and Miles schedule quite a lot, it suits my tastes more, but the alcohol 4wd Trucks are popular in NTPA, PPL, and Outlaws and I really think they could add a different crowd to the show (yes, it will give some tractor fans a chance to hit the concession stands). I really like the idea of upping the weight of the Light Unlimited Mods. I'd was thinking of 6400 lbs to keep it inline with the Light Super class, but 6200 lbs. would be fine with me. Here are the Light Unlimited Mods that made passes on the GN circuit in 2015: Paul Koontz Joker Keith Wayson Sr. Super Bee Jacob Ohl Outcast Brian Diekman Rat Poison Brandon Simon Simon Sez R.J. Simon Simon Sez Show No Mercy Matt Ferry Milk Money (he didn't hook last summer, but they have 3 hemis so they could put one hemi and one Chevy on this tractor and make things interesting.) Manny Ferry Rotten, Mean, & Nasty Todd Feiss Feissty Farmer Tarry Feiss S'no Farmer Xtreme Duane Bergman Rambunctious II There are a number of Outlaw tractors that would be perfect for the class if they could make weight including Don Nelson who has Twisted Whip as well as Texas Bullwhip. There are also a number of state level tractors in just about every region that could take off an engine and easily come and mix it up. One question I have is whether there should be turbines in the class. There's a long history of turbines at the Farm Show and there are a number of Outlaw tractors that wouldn't have to make any changes. There are other guys like Rick Krause who could add a little variety back to the class (even if it is outlawed on the National circuit). I've seen Rick pull on a number of occasions and he's one of the most enjoyable turbines to watch, he doesn't mess around and waste time, he hooks to the sled and spools up quick and goes. Personally, I'd be in favor of letting a few limited turbines in and see how it goes. Honestly, I think there are way more tractors that would be legal and competitive for this class in comparison to classes like DSS, Alcohol Super, and SSD4x4. Those classes really don't have near the potential numbers that the Light Unlimited Mod class would have. Bryan, Yes, haulers are a concern, its something I definitely didn't think about, thanks for bringing it to everyone attention. I think they could find space for the extra semis, even if it meant parking some of them on the old Cardinal Stadium field, or better yet move those car that are between the Haulers and Freedom Haul and make that entire area for haulers and park the cars on the old cardinal field. I'm sure there are other workable solutions but that's just an off the cuff idea. Thanks to everyone for adding to this discussion. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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