05:24:15am, Saturday, May 18, 2024
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Michelin Tires used in Europe
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Tires
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I know that when selecting pulling tires, people tend to use what is available to them. I was wondering why tractors in the USA never seem to use the Michelin tires they use overseas. Is this because they are not made or sold in the USA? It seems like they would be great tires, but I was just wondering if there is a USA equivalent. They kind of look like Michelin agribib tires... but I don't really know. |
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Re: Michelin Tires used in Europe
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micky
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Wondering about this too |
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Re: Michelin Tires used in Europe
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Team one
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I would think it's got to do with the tire being common over seas and not so common here, I think they use a 650/65R38 in the sport class and super sport classes in Europe, a tire that is used in farming there but has been slow to catch on here, I would think most farm classes around here use nothing wider than a 520 and have rules in place to keep it that way . |
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Re: Michelin Tires used in Europe
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23* one Frick pony
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Somebody's been studying their Firestone literature.
The R1 23* can outpull a 45* tire on dry hard g NA soil. That's it, it has absolutely zero advantage outside of that one application. 45* works better for wet traction, sidehills, road wear and road comfort. The R1W 23* has less of an advantage on hard ground than the R1. Firestone mostly sells R1W now because that's what people want, the advantage of R1 on hard ground didn't outweigh the advantages of R1W. There is a reason no other tire company anywhere in the world makes a 23*. There's also a reason Firestone does not sell that tire outside of NA. For how relatively new Michelin is in NA, they've impressed a lot of people and taken a lot of Firestone's customers which is pretty impressive considering their slightly higher price tag, the brand loyalty that tends to exist with farmers, and the bad taste Michelin left in people's mouths at first due to cracking before they redesigned their tires to handle the UV light in NA. I'm not sure what the OP is really getting at though, Michelins are sold here and readily available. Some of them are made here as well. I haven't seen any on a pulling tractor though. Always figured it might have been the radial deal, Michelin doesn't make a bias tire. |
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Re: Michelin Tires used in Europe
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Registered: 03/27/2008 Posts: 1,152 |
I can give some info why they are using the Michelin tire in Hot Farm here:
a) As we are metric, metric tires are used and also in the rules. b) Bias tires in agricultural applications here have been gone since the late 1980s and are considered "antique". The north western part of Europe is a wet pit and "small footprint" tires are quite useless and with tractors here spending a lot of time on the road for transportation (using semis in farming here is really uncommon) legally going a minimum of 25 mph (and for the last 15 years more like 30mph +), bias tires are not your prefered choice on the road. video: [youtu.be] Corn harvest in our neck of the woods often looks like this: [youtu.be] c) It's a certain batch of the Michelin XM108 that works better than most others up to a certain speed. That batch has been huge - but those tires are already getting hard to come by and good money is paid for them. But they are still dirt cheap compared to Puller tires. The Michelin are radial tires which makes them work VERY well up to app. 30 mph tire speed. Once you get above that, a bias / puller tire works better and works on any track. The story is, that a radial tire doesn't change it's shape and thus works "as designed" if you don't spin it too hard. A bias changes shape and actually start to improve for tractor pulling once it get's a certain speed (lifting the hitch?). Big part of the "why Michelin" story here is: The heavy Hot farms can run up to 42 inch tires which make for a large footprint and they run up to one inch lugs - which makes for some rather slow tire speeds - but it really takes HEAVY (and rather wet) clay tracks. The dutch circuit (the Netherlands are blessed with very heavy clay) has those and the use of Puller or bias tires in Hot Farm is rather uncommon there. They are actually starting to use "harder" radial tires in the top now, as the Michelins are rather soft. You could say they really "teeth" into the tracks and run on tourqe only. Once they get on softer ground, all they do is dig holes... Basically you could say: The Michelins are still cheaper and up to app 2000 hp at 9900 lbs / 1300 hp at 7700 hp a 42 inch Michelin and on specific tracks (which they have in the NL) does the job as well or better than a 24.5 x32 Firestone Puller for a 1/4 of the price. Experiences in different circuits vary and e.g. in the Scandinavian countries Pullers have become a "must" and experiences in Germany are also that "Pullers will always work, but when a Michelin with long lugs hooks up and isn't spinning much, it's gone and away." Experiences with bias Ag tires I cannot give - they hardly exist here anymore and the last time I saw them used was app. 15 years ago where some guys imported a few sets and tried them - but they didn't stand a chance vs. the Michelins and were put aside quickly. Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com] Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2016 09:05PM by Sascha. |
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Re: Michelin Tires used in Europe
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Roadkill
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If your question is what pulls better, a 45 degree bar or a 23 degree bar, the 23 degree bar pulls better. The 23 degree bar is the best compromise between traction and performance for modern tractors. In Europe, the tractors tend to travel on the road more so they are more focused on ride quality therefore tend toward 45 degree. There is a reason the tires that are being cut are cut at 23 degrees or a very close variation (21-24 degrees depending on people's thoughts) but none vary far from 23 degrees. There is a really good demo here simple enough for all the keyboard pullers to understand:
[commercial.firestone.com] Also comparing Europe vs. US, you need to consider that the MI tires are R1-W tires. If you're comparing those vs. a Radial All Trac 23, it's an R1. R1W = 25% deeper tread depth. If you're pulling on hard packed ground, the R1-W does not penetrate and allow full surface contact of the tire face. Traction is not generated solely by the lugs. It is also generated by the total surface contact of the tire so if the lugs penetrate the soil completely traction is generated by the smooth area between the lugs, too. The 45 degree r1-W tire tends to have the lugs fold over due to the lack of buttressing on them losing traction in hard environments. There's probably a reason the guys trying to run the Mitas tires are cutting them to 23 degrees (or close to it). I can't wait to see how much $$ is spent by pullers and/or cutters to come up with an new optimum bar angle for pulling tires. If it's outside of the 21 to 24 degree range, I'll go back to school. Maybe someone will cut 45 degree lugs to show how they pull. Anyway, I hope this helps answer the original question. |
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Re: Michelin Tires used in Europe
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plum krazee
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not everyone has or wants 1200 hp and 25 - 30 mph ground speed,in some venues 45 degree works rather well.Many types of pulls,machines,tracks and usage out there. |
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Re: Michelin Tires used in Europe
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
I have a loader tractor with near new Firestone 23 degree radial tires. That particular tractor used to have Goodyear DT710's on it. Those tires would go ANYWHERE with no chains on. Tires had fluid in them then and now. The tractor now with the Firestones is completely WORTHLESS and it has chains on as well. I had chains on all last year as well even during summer and it can't go anywhere compared to the old DT710's even when they were worn out. I can tell you what tire is going back on that tractor as soon as I can find a set!!!! |
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