Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 07:59AM
Hi
I think I got surge problem. No problem to spool, tractor goes down the track very well until the rpm goes down a little bit.

It's a d414 engine. Stock head & cam.
Turbo is BW s475 3x3
Turbine housing is 1.00a/r
Boost is 68psi and drive pressure 72-74psi


How is the best way to fix it ?

Change Turbine a/r?
Decrease compressor wheel size?
Give more flow(porting,cam,rocker ect)??

Thanks guys
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 08:29AM
Get a different turbo,like smaller
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 09:04AM
can you go to 466?
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 09:27AM
It's in our plan but were going to finish the season with the 414.

we're looking for what to do to make this turbo works great with the 414 engine
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 10:38AM
Water ........
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 11:05AM
We already run with 50/50 watermeth, but only with 21oz/min nozzle. I think it's not enough?!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2016 11:10AM by tdi89.
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 11:22AM
Should be a smaller charger for your setup (or at least inlet wheel). 414 has quite a bit less stroke than the 466 therefore less torque as you are finding out towards the end of the track, they also have more volume of air to drive the chargers. Certainly a cam will help out quite a bit. Just because you are getting good pressures doesn't mean it is being put to good use.

Turbos run are driven by air volume/pressure. . How many pounds of air into/through your engine is affected by heat, more heat less lbs of good air. When you cant get the air to flow through your engine it builds pressure, pressure creates heat. Good in cylinders, bad in intake pipe.
Low airflow, high pressure = Surge.

Your engine makes 414cu in of air every 2 revolutions, you can only push so much through it in stock form. Better cams and other work increases the flow of that air through your engine. Your restriction is before the exhaust wheel (valve size, opening height, scavenging of air into and out of cylinder, etc). ***Now Superfarm tractors issues have generally been that they are limited on exhaust wheel size and they cant get the airflow out of the engine, the technology is in the compressor wheel to make them more efficient.

If you are running stock cam can we assume you are running stock compression, or has it been decreased?
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 12:17PM
Awesome explanation!

Yes I run stock cam, stock compression, all internal stock.

Only p-pump, injector, water and turbo.
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 12:52PM
Ok. You are about to go down the same wormhole we have all been down. Cam + Decompress pistons. Most on here will agree that if you are going that far, start with a 466 and go from there, you will be happier in the end.
Minimum--You can easily buy a cam (Vogel or Suits) that will work but you will also want better springs and pushrods to go with it. Stock pistons can be cut for valve relief and decompressed, but may/will eventually fail. Also will need to fire ring the sleeves at that point.

Cheaper solution for now is to find a smaller charger and have fun the rest of the season, spend some money and put together a moderately built 466 for next year. There are many parts for them around and my biggest suggestion is to not be in a hurry, take your time, research, find good used hard parts. Not sure what class you are running or what your ultimate goal is but there is NO end to spending money.
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 01:20PM
Thanks for the helpful infos! Very interesting!
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 01:28PM
Turbo Logic: That is the best reply I have heard on this forum in all the years I've been on it. Where have you been ?
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 02:59PM
Couple things, don't decompress your 414 or your 466 that won't help anything also your way short of the water you need. That setup should use around 25-30oz in a pass (10 sec) so you really need to triple what your currently putting in. Also start with strait water not water meth, could get very expensive with that stuff
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 10:31PM
Quote
Dairy blend
Couple things, don't decompress your 414 or your 466 that won't help anything also your way short of the water you need. That setup should use around 25-30oz in a pass (10 sec) so you really need to triple what your currently putting in. Also start with strait water not water meth, could get very expensive with that stuff

Ok, thanks. What's wrong with using methanol ?

And I forgot to tell, the Timming is set at 24* BTDC



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2016 12:19AM by tdi89.
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem July 08, 2016 10:01AM
Cuz if your too lean with water meth you could burn a Piston really easy, I would set your timing at 30



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2016 12:28PM by Dairy blend.
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 29, 2016 01:40PM
I agree. Turbo logic seems like a very polite and educated person. I personally feel like I have learned a lot from his post
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem June 30, 2016 10:04AM
Had to use another username yesterday "turbo logic", I forgot my password because of computer issues.

Forums are great resources for information, much of it needs to be personally vetted to fit your situation. What may have worked for one, may not have for another.
I wish when I was younger there was such a resource (thank you to the site Moderators), most was trial and error and money down the drain. Best to work together for the positive perpetuation of our sport. Tom
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem July 08, 2016 08:48AM
So, to add another layer to the previous posts, nowhere do I find reference to fuel quantities or RPM. Aren't each of those going to carry weight in this discussion?
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Re: Hot farm turbo problem July 08, 2016 09:04AM
The pump is set to 600cc with 4x25injectors( brand new FVP 5x22 is on the way). Max Rpm is set to 3600. Timming is 24BTDC. And the weight classes is 10&12 000lbs.

Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2016 09:08AM by tdi89.
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