Should NTPA change or drop the Super Semi class? June 05, 2009 10:58AM
There is a thread on the other board where the poster states the Hibbetts stable will not be running this year (or he asks that).

Should NTPA consider changing or dropping it's Super Semi division?

Here is my 2 cents worth- at Bowling Green and a couple other pulls, they are good.

However, I think the powers that be messed up when they basically made their growing Pro Stock semi division into a Super Farm Semi division (correct me if this is wrong but didn't they change to a 3 x 3 charger last year?)

I think a Pro Stock semi should be like a Pro Stock tractor- ie- 1 charger, any size. In Ohio, where OSTPA still runs true Pro Stock semis, they can be competitive with their multi charger cousins. Notice last year at Tomah, the Minnesota PS Semi (errr. Super Farm semis) stayed home from Tomah. This is an illustration of how a growing PS Semi division can help the Super Semi division- the guys like Laribee and Walkers from Illinois have a good shot a finishing in the money so they will run. The Minnesota guys with their pea shooter turbos stay home.

Anyway, back to the point- if this is going to be just the JR Colllins show, they may as well drop the class and add the SS Diesel Fwds as a bona fide Grand National (not regional) division. There are more of those trucks being built this year. I like to watch the Semis run, but if for whatever reason they aren't going to support the series, or the class as a whole is dying (though PPL and FPP have decent turnouts for their Hot Rod/Big Rig pulls, albeit almost exclusively on the east coast or eastern Ohio).

Your thoughts?

One final ?- why have the Super Semis/Big Rigs/Hot Rod Semis/Whatever-you-want-to-call-them done ok from Ohio east, but not from west of there?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2009 11:01AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Should NTPA change or drop the Super Semi class? June 05, 2009 01:22PM
The prostock semi drivers and United Pullers of Minnesota have worked very hard to get the pro stock semi class up and going, & I thank them for all of their hard work. The pro stock semis turbo are limited to a 4.3 in inlet restriction. If you look at the trucks that run w/ UPM, they are all top of the line trucks and the drivers and crews are very professional. Now this is my opinion, but how can you claim that the "powers that be messed up" when they created this class. This class is more affordable than a super and has got more people involed in the sport, after all isn't that what we all want is more people involed in this great sport I personally think the issue with the super semis is that the class has out priced it self. Its great that there are guys that are pulling super semi and i wish them nothing but the best. But to knock a class that was created to establish more trucks in different parts of the country and at a more affordable price to the drivers and the promoters? Can they compete at Tomah, I don't know but I would bet that your going to see some of these trucks at Tomah and New Hampton. I think the pro stock semi class in Minnesta is going to grow this year and become more comptive than ever.
Terry
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Re: Should NTPA change or drop the Super Semi class? June 05, 2009 04:13PM
Ok, then it's a Limited Pro Stock semi, not a Super Farm Semi.
My point remains-

as a comparison, look at the East Coast tractor series. They have a class where their supers and pro stocks run together successfully.
They also have lots of limited pros (or mod turbos as they call them)... those guys don't run in the super/pro class. They just can't compete. Same deal with the NTPA and their castrated pro stock semis in Minnesota.

If you read my post, I wasn't attacking the Pro Stock semi class per se. I think it's a good idea.

I was attacking the small turbo limit. If you're going to call it a pro stock class, then make it a true pro stock class.
If there are any of the Minnesota pro stock semis at Tomah, it will ONLY be because there are only a couple Super Semis there and they will get a check.... and finish 100 or more feet behind JR Collins. If Hibbetts were coming, I would bet anything they would be nowhere to be found.

Finally, regarding growing the class, I bet there are more true pro stock semis in Ohio with the big single chargers than there are baby pro stock semis in Minnesota with their 4.3 chargers.

Again, this is just personal opinion, but if you're going to call it a pro stock class, whether tractor or semi, make it a REAL pro stock class.
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Re: Should NTPA change or drop the Super Semi class? June 06, 2009 12:53AM
So you think that if MN opened up their turbo limit, all those guys would bolt on 5" turbos & be able to run with the supers? I highly doubt it & I think Terry would agree. Going back to your SF and Mod Turbo examples, why don't those pullers just step up to PS? Same reason - cost & maintenance. If the big whigs decided that the PS numbers were getting light & the solution was to eliminate the SF & Lim Pro classes so those folks would "have" to jump up to PS, what do you think would happen? I'm betting less than 10% would make the jump. The rest would start/join a local organization or park their tractor.

ANYGN class that depends upon local pullers to make the class is in trouble & needs it's rules seriously looked at. IMHO one of the reasons that pulling is so fractured with local organizations is that none of the national organizations have a sportsmans division. I know this isn't what we grew up with & many love the idea of their local heros competing with the big boys when they come to town, but how realistic is that in today's pulling? Yes, there are a handfull of folks that pull State/RN with GN caliber vehicles because their personal schedule doesn't allow for the travel to run the GN circuit, but the vast majority just don't have the financial ability to run a GN level vehicle. But do those folks run away with the local show?

Also most of the promoters who sanction State/RN or local organization events don't have the ability to finance a GN show. If you want fans to pay an increased gate to see a GN type show, you better show them something they can't get at their local county fair. NASCAR Cup doesn't have local guys running with them. NHRA Top Fuel doesn't have local guys running with them. I don't think any states offer the Unlimited Mod class. So why do we think states should have PS & SS classes with the same rules as GN?
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Re: Should NTPA change or drop the Super Semi class? June 06, 2009 01:34AM
Have you ever seen a NTPA pro stock semi pull in minnesota. Also what does pro/super stock tractors have to do with pro stock semis. I think you might have a valied point if this was a GN class but its not, its been accepted as a state class & for now and is working very well as a state class. These truck have no problem dragging Von's orange sled 350+ w/ the right front in the air and black smoke rolling. I know they don't have 3 chargers, or may not run down the track as fast or w/ as much smoke but for a state/region class they put on a awsome show.
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Re: Should NTPA change or drop the Super Semi class? June 06, 2009 02:02AM
Terry, I was using a super/pro stock tractor comparison to illustrate that when the rules allow, a TRUE pro stock can be very competitive with a super stock diesel, just in the same manner that out east, Laribee and other TRUE pro stock semis can run with (and have won) Super Semi/Big Rig/Hot Rod semi classes.

Also, if you look at last year's Tomah results, there were no Minnesota guys (except maybe Big Jack), even though it's the closest GN Semi pull to Minnesota. To answer your question, no, I have never been to a Minnesota pull. There is a good chance I will be at Tomah, though. Maybe they can come and pull there and I can see what a 4.3 charger semi can do with my own eyes.

Regarding the State level class, TWD, FWD, Super Farm etc are Grand National classes and the Region 3 guys have no trouble supporting Tomah (of course, the rules are the same and they aren't handicapped).

Also, the Pro Stock semi division was created as a state level class with the same turbo rules as another state level class- pro stock tractors (and, just like the GN Pro Stock tractor division, the State Pro Stocks in Indiana and Mid South, and non-NTPA member states Illinois, Ohio, East Coast, and Badger State run the exact same turbo rules as their GN Pro Stock brothers). The rules got changed for the pro stock semis, and that was a factor in Ohio deciding to go with PPL. The Ohio PS Semi guys already spent their money according to the existing NTPA rules.

If the rules were changed back to what they were (and still are in Illinois and Ohio), would the Minnesota guys bolt on 5 inch chargers? I have no idea, and nobody would hold a gun to their head forcing them to. They could still run their 4.3 vs larger.... their personal choice. They would just sacrifice a few feet, but save a few dollars.

Again, this is just personal opinion, but to be consistent, a pro stock should be a pro stock (1 charger, any size). I know NTPA tried to change the PS tractor rules last year (to make it more economical), but that didn't work out too well, did it?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2009 02:21AM by The Original Michael.
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