10:50:23am, Thursday, May 02, 2024
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Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Registered: 09/16/2014 Posts: 153 |
I am working on rules to keep our Diesel Super Stock tractors on the track. It has been a long time since I pulled in this class and any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks, Doug Roberts |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Team one
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My opinion is DO NOT put rules in place to scale back the power on dss , compared to almost anywhere else the outlaws are already way behind with the exception of a few tractors, this will also possibly limit numbers further at bigger events when the occasional ntpa regional tractor or two show up, they don't want to go backwards ! The beauty of this class is that they are not all the same , every tractor offers something different when it comes to the track, either way if the competitors don't like wrenching this isn't the class for them, they have never been reliable and never will be because there is so much going on under the hood, maybe don't hook them so often but don't take power away ! Everyone quit watching antiques pull years ago! |
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Re: Doug, consider this
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Hear hear! Please leave the rules alone. Maybe limit to 16-20 hooks max, with 4 for your "playoff" if you're doing that next year.
Or, if a rule is changed, just call it a Heavy SS class and allow your LSS alkies with the 504s run with them. Steve Burge proved at Bowling Green a top DSS can run with a top Unlimited Super which Outlaws doesnt offer. Ulmer and Goodwin heads up vs Wiens, Wipf, etc at 8000lbs would be a good show. Maybe its time to combine the classes. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2016 09:33AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: Doug, consider this
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No limits
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For an organization that prides itself on supposedly being fair , how is this fair to the guys that have already invested time and money to get their tractors running hard ? They finally get their machines proforming to where that can compete and are impressive to watch and now you want to slow them down ? |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Anonymous User
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I disagree that limits will make it cheaper to run the class. Look super farm! Guys are spending crazy money just to pick up an extra 25-50 hp. All because they are all restricted to the 3" charger. As restrictions are added HP cubic dollars goes up. The front runners are always going to want to be the front runners, and if that means spending that $5k to pick up 30hp (with restrictions) instead of the $5k to pick up 100hp (without restrictions) they are going to spend it. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Good points
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Easy to say no limits when your not footing the bill. I like the idea of more tractors with less horsepower than just a few that may show up if not broke. I am sure the promoter feels the same way. Looks to me like he is not cutting the class back but just wanting to put a limit on where they are now. It seems to work for Outlaws in all the other classes and bet it will in this class too. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Posts: 744 |
Was talking to some pullers in Kirksville. It seemed 2017 would have this pool of competitors to choose from.
Boeckmann Messinger x 2 Ulmer Peterson Barfnecht (red one be back out) Vaske/Franke Cool VanBeeks Anderson Williams x 2 Goodwin Shreier Henderson Hovden Aments Demers My thoughts would be what changes could be implemented to get 8-10 of those competitors to be at each event. Doesn't have to be the same but as long as 8 are there that's a good show for DSS. I think the restrictor idea could prob push Demers, Peterson, and Henderson away, knowing the work they have done with their programs the past years. Just an observation not a reason to do one thing or another. My observation could be wrong, they may like the idea. Other ideas... Show up fund? Meaning every pull you show up to adds $ amount to the pot you can collect if you make % of the pulls. instead of adding to the purse 15-18 hook points schedule? Just have friday/sat hooks? Only do one chase reset with points in this class? or no reset? Have first 6-8 hooks then a 2 week break to finish out? I do not want to make this class a dyno class to see who can do the most behind those restriction to get the most power. Most run within their budgets already. Some people in other classes would actually spend less money to compete in this class. How do we get some to move into the DSS? COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Gene Guppy
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Ya, Ya, Ya, Adam. Every year we hear all about all of the Heavy Supers but there is usually still 3 or 4 per show. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Posts: 744 |
Hence the thread discussing ideas on how to get the numbers up. I assume you have some good suggestions rather than just a simple hit and run post. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2016 03:48PM by AV. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Gene Guppy
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You assume correct Adam. You wouldn't believe all the great ideas in my brain. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Ol' Timer
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Hey Gene Guppy!! Remember all the times we would see our 15-20 supers running......those were the times!!! |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Gene Guppy
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Ahhhh yes. Those were the days. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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to av you have some very valid points and i am a big fan of you but some of the names you mentioned have never hooked with the outlaws and some very rarely do if ever but as a fan this year with only 1-4 dss showing up at most pulls and the dss class being my favorite i was disappointed i am not a puller but if a rule change is what it takes to get 4-7 to show at a pull then i am pretty happy with that instead of 1-4 just my thoughts from a paying fan |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Registered: 03/20/2015 Posts: 16 |
Bout time!
They idea of building a motor[good stuff too] to only last part way thru the season is crazy! The crowd is not going to know or care if limits are put into place lower the HP alittle and keep them coming back.. They would like to see aleast half dozen Supers in a class, not have them keep breaking and get parked for the rest of the year. The Outlaw prostock class and it's too many variations are a good example of reasonable limits working! |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Posts: 744 |
No one said anything about lasting halfway thru the season. My suggestion was to give a break to let those that need or want to refresh time to regroup if needed. Things happen that none of us can control. Plus pullers would like time to do other family things besides be at a pull every friday and saturday of the summer.
It doesn't mean we are building motors only last half a season. 2014 we ran 24 times without the head or pan coming off. That crank and block lasted 37 hooks and its not billet crank or hyper block. 2015 the head or pan never came off again and ran all 14 of our hooks. 2016 we busted a piston that shot a hole in our block. We got greedy and should have retired those pistons. That set of sleeves and pistons were the original set from mid 2013 to this summer. They aren't hyper parts, they are parts anyone can get for any brand. We learned a lesson on the limit there. We have only 4.1 cast wheels up top and 1650 cc cast sigma pump. Our last run was only 190 lbs of boost, 220 is max on a tough track, no wastegate. Our turbos are all original since 2013, only having to reseal the bottom turbo a couple times. We can buy 4 holsets for DSS cheaper than 2 outlaw prostock turbos. The limits we are talking are what we run because we limited ourselves and adjust as needed and found a good living combo. If we go to Tomah we get our butts handed to us with the setup we are running. So if our tractor isn't running the biggest and baddest stuff out there and capable of winning outlaw hooks now, why haven't more people come or built already? It cost less to compete and win an outlaw hook in DSS, than it cost to win SF, Lim Pro, and Pro in Outlaws. Outside of Demers, Henderson, Peterson (JD) the class is at or under the limits Roberts suggested. Goodwin seems to have tamed theirs back some even and could open it back up if they wanted. Lets try to get more of the available pool to come then see how the numbers do. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2016 02:52AM by AV. |
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low #'s in all DSS this year
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abh
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NTPA RN 3 #'s
Ellsworth 5 DSS 1 light pro DSS class Anoka 2 DSS 1 Alky HSS class Anoka 4 DSS 1 Alky HSS class Norwalk 10 DSS 1 light pro DSS class Norwalk 5 DSS 1 light pro DSS class Marshfield 5 DSS 1 light pro DSS class NTPA RN 5's Rockwell 8 DSS DSS class Rockwell 8 DSS DSS class New Hampton 6 DSS DSS class New Hampton 7 DSS DSS class Waverly 6 DSS DSS class Decorah 3 DSS 3 Alky HSS class Monticello 2 DSS DSS class With only 1 tractor that made all the hooks. NTPA and OTTPA both had low #'s in the SS class with most of there pulls overlapping each others. The pulls that didn't a few pullers ran with both Orgs. Some very good points in this thread will be fun to read as it goes on. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Posts: 744 |
The idea was to identify what DSS are even possible to hook in 2017.
Then posed questions on how to get them there. Everyone on that list has hooked an Outlaw hook before (some its been awhile). And they are candidates to do so again. Things change year to year for a lot of teams. This year we went to Tomah, next year we are not. Some of those ebbs and flows are part of the game that we cannot control. We are open for any and all ideas to make it all work. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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surprise
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And for region 3 the light-pro that run with the DSS is the one going to Enderle this weekend as a DSS |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Anonymous User
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That's because there isn't much for DSS tractors in WI, and a couple MN tractors don't like to pull here in WI. There was an issue more than a few years back, and they are not going to support it other than probably Norwalk. That is why Region 3 is down. Also I know most of these guys don't want to pull every weekend. Its a hobby, and a expensive one at that. So they pick and choose, and they also want to make family events too. So they are not going to run a full schedule. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Registered: 07/19/2008 Posts: 145 |
Why does SHD not pull with outlaw? Is it because of a deck plate?
Where was Richard Cool all year? Goodwins had 2, sold 1 a year or 2 ago and the other was not out much this year. What was the reason there? Will Ulmers continue to pull DSS after the controversy in the LSS class and with OTTPA in particular? Maybe mix the USS and DSS classes again, I know too many complaints. I thought anything Super Stock used to mean bring what you got? Need to be able for tractors with other organizations to be able to come pull OTTPA. I know it is said that they can if they want to follow "our" rules. How about make the rules the same so they can without any modification? Do away with the "chase for the finish" points set up. It really is not fair to the teams that went at it hard in the beginning and middle of season to keep their machines running to only later on give the rest of the bunch enough points to even things up. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Registered: 03/20/2015 Posts: 16 |
Been way more than a year or two since Goodwins had 2 supers |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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From what I've heard is that making competitors run a certain fuel and a certain water that is not required in ANY other pulling organization is a cause not to pull with outlaw. Making more rules to make it harder for more competitors to compete in a class will eliminate competitors. The same thing happened with the super farm, pro and limited classes. By having those competitors buy an outlaw turbo to compete and their fuel and water adds to the cost of competing too. You can say that their are more competitors, but by restricting access for the sake of some isn't going to grow the class. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Registered: 03/20/2015 Posts: 16 |
There are different rules for turbos in different associations already, whats your point? |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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eastern corn belt
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Totally agree with cost of pulling is very expensive anymore.
And yes, there was a day when SSD tractor was very reliable and could hook a lot of events per year. 1000 to 1500 horsepower of the late 70's and throughout the '80's could do that with twin and triple and even the first quad setups. But, everybody seems to want more horsepower - promoter, puller and spectator. Many pullers over time have done so. Many have chosen not to. And therein lays the current problem. Not enough pullers with a SSD on any given circuit, it seems. Here's a situation we have in Wolverine (Michigan) TPA. We currently have only 2 SSD left residing in the state, 1 green and 1 orange. Nearby from northwestern Ohio is a red one. Their 3 or 4 turbo setups run good and they have reasonably good engine longevity. If they could pull in a class all by themselves, likely no one would really realize what kind of performance they actually have. But since 1 to 3 entries make for a pretty boring class and one the promoters are not going to book, the class was restructured and is now known as the SS Combo. The smoker tractors from any of the so-called 'lesser' classes are eligible to compete in the SS Combo class. It is interesting to see SF, Light PS, Limited PS and PS compete together. Never can tell who the winner may be. Very seldom is it the SSD's. Many times, a SF will significantly outdistant the SSD. Now that really is sad. But the SSD guys are happy they are not having to constatntly wrench on their tractor (believe me, they still have their share of engine problems) and pleased with the results for their invested dollars. So now we have a class with an appropiate number of entries (6 to 10) to make a respectable show. However, it does not fix the problem that was first addressed in this thread. My point is, if you are going to tame the horspower on the SSD, hopefully it will be such to entice more participation and help level the playing field. Until somebody says, 'phooey on all of ya. I'm gonna show ya how to make more horsepower and win'. History proves that always happens. To back this statement further up, just read the current threads about 2 western PA green tractors that have been innovators and now after several years, fiannly got the bugs worked out and now recently have been outlawed from East Coast pulling. Is that really right? And earlier this week, I had a good discussion with the Full Pull Productions owner about the SS/PS "Smoker" class that had been so popular the past quarter century, but he is concerned about if that class will even survive now due to the same points presented overall in this thread. Despite my long time involvment and pondering for years how to make SSD competing fair and equitable and cost effective, sorry I really do not have a formula to satisfy to the masses. There has to be limits placed somewhere. No matter what is proposed, there are pros and cons. The best to the Outlaw pullers and administration in trying to discover an equitable solution to maintaining and hopefully growing the SSD class. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Outlaw Junky
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It's a non technical answer that is really simple. Make it and keep it what it should be for Outlaws. A PREMIER class. This class should only get to hook at the best Outlaw Pulls that have the Best Outlaw tracks. Stop hooking this class as a filler class or because its close to everyones home and you want to add hooks for the class. That hometown hook might not be a good track or a pull facility that should even be allowed to have a class of that caliber. Book as many hooks on non NTPA weekends where possible in hopes you can gain some of their guys on their off nights Raise the class purse for several reasons. 1st its premier class. 2. This class puts people in promoters seats as its the best smoke class in pulling. 3. Guys are more likely to run for points on a more manageable schedule especially with added money. 4. NTPA pay is lacking. If you can keep the hook count to around 15, that helps keep in manageable and allows for outsiders to come participate. Finally, find sponsors willing to wrap these tractors and pay the guys to have those wraps for one year on those tractors for the class. That money could go towards show-up money or end of the year points fund. Keep the rules in line with all the other organizations that still offer the class and just simply give them an opportunity to attempt to run both if they so dare choose. Pullers like variety, to be treated fairly, and of course more money. As Adam has pointed out, the tractors are out there. Its up to the organization to decide how bad they want them for the show. Make them the show, not just another side act that is just another part of the show. Your biggest problem is you have premier pulls, without really a Premier Class to focus on. You have tried over the years to make it the SEMI's, but one just doesn't cut it. Most fans want to see big smoke right? Then give it to them front row and center stage! Quite making it complicated! Because its not. At some point if you want to play with the big boys, you got to go face to face with them. Don't run around to the back yard and try and make up some new set of rules that limits a tractor to only Outlaws! |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Registered: 03/20/2015 Posts: 16 |
Uh, Mr Junk, I don't know who your beef is with, but if you combine [It's a premier class] [Only hold class on special occasions] [And NTPA pay is lacking]
What does that have to do with the original discussion???? |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Outlaw Junky
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Uh, Mr Junk, I don't know who your beef is with, but if you combine [It's a premier class] [Only hold class on special occasions] [And NTPA pay is lacking]
So, your saying you want to spend all that money on these tractors, pull 25-30 times a year on any and every track across the midwest that will book the class and get no more money for doing any of it? Pull it at all your larger events only. Keep the number of hooks down to help increase your numbers. These guys build these tractors to run hard and they cost a lot to make them run and maintain. They cant run a lengthy schedule, its too much maintenance on the vehicles. The more runs on the motor means more money in repairs. You don't have to change motor specs, you simply need to manage the numbers better. That is it! Stay away from the regional pulls and the weeknight events. These tractors are expensive and very nice. Put them under the lights and in the spot light at your major hooks.Get them sponsors and wrap their tractors to make them all look sharp. Stop using them to fill out pulls unless they can pay for them to be there. I don't see where I have a beef with anyone or organization. I think I mentioned even trying to gain hooks from NTPA by paying more then them. Apparently sponsorship and fuel money was a stupid idea for the class as well. What a stupid idea I had to pay a puller more money for less hooks and only put them on great pulling tracks. My bad. Does that make you happy? Doubtful... |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Outlaw watcher
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Simple fix they all run the same psi relief valve at a reasonable level and have it sealed or rotate valves from pull to pull, and if there are others that want to pull with them all they need is a fitting to connect said valve, easy peasey... |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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IH-SSD
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Relief valves will not make a difference for fixing this problem, You can easily get around lower pressure on your top stage by increasing your volume on top and increase pressure in the middle or bottom stage. Been there done it. The boost pressure from setup to setup is different depending on cube's and turbo's and even then two setups the same will not always run the same they take time and people that know what there doing to make them work. The restrictor plate that Outlaws has talked about will not fix there problem it will only slow them down for a year or so then these guy's will be back out front that have been out front. You take the guy's and there setups that have run filters and they already know what they need to do. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Your right everyone has a turbo rule. Ntpa is a 3X3 turbo and Badger state might have a 3X3.5 or 4 limit, but they don't tell you that you have to buy a box turbo from their organization or you can't pull with them. I know a couple guys that didn't have an outlaw box turbo, but was legal to pull in any other organization, but couldn't pull in their respective class. The pullers offered to pull in the next size up class (in this case prostock). These 2 guys were obviously going to be out classed, cubic inch, charger, pump, and still couldn't pull because they didn't buy parts from outlaw. Same with the fuel and water. Why not make everyone use #2 ruby red fuel only? You know farm grade fuel. By using smaller turbo'ss or only your fuel you will illiminate new competitors to any class. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Registered: 09/16/2014 Posts: 153 |
Thanks for all the response on the Diesel Super Stock limits we are thinking about implementing in OTTPA. We do not by no means have all the answers, we just know we can’t stay on the path we are on and especially go the way NTPA has the last 5 years. Things has just really escalated these last 5 years with all the aftermarket parts coming out and instead of them fixing the problem it has enabled a few to just turn the wick up even more. Now those same aftermarket parts are failing or other parts that haven’t in the past are now failing. This is a problem everywhere in the Super Stock class. Before long the Pro Stocks and Unlimited Super Stocks are going to see these same problems and low numbers in NTPA & PPL. I was talking to Mike Witt with the Louisville pull and asked why only 11 DSS last year and he said that was all that sent in. Same with USS class. With those low numbers they were able to take more PS tractors but still took every PS application that sent in except a few LPS that sent in. This is one reason they are making class changes this year. When a premier pull in the winter time that pays a good purse is having problems filling the spots, pullers better take notice about the direction of some of these classes. I finally got back from Kansas State Fair and had a chance to read these responses and thanks for your input. I do not have a lot of time right now but after reading them here are a few comments.
In Outlaws we are not cutting back anyone that I know that hooked with us last year, just putting a limit on where we are at now. This year our DSS class only had 18 hooks and a pretty soft schedule travel wise as mainly in Iowa, Nebraska and South Dakota where most live and only went to Missouri twice. This class has less hooks than 12 out of our 14 classes offered. You cannot compare putting limits on this class to Super Farms. It is a big difference spending $30,000 for an upgrade in performance only to have that lead to maintenance problems. At Bowling Green, OH in 1995 I won about $5000 in purse for a 1st, 2nd and 7th place finish. Now 21 years later not for sure you would win that much. Now 21 years later that should be at least $50,000 in purse and the point I am making is the money is not there for the increase in cost of these vehicles and maintenance. This is not NASCAR. We are not going to hook DSS class just on weekends, not fair to the other classes. They have quite a few weekends off now compared to other classes and the DSS season does not start till Father’s Day weekend with a lot of our classes started a month before that. Plus great venues like Missouri State Fair (Monday), Iowa State Fair (Wednesday) and Spencer, IA (Thursday) are not on weekends. Most of the one-time vehicles have not hooked this year with us and only a couple of times in last 3 years. So as what we have found in other classes over the years that limits and rules for fair competition has led to more vehicles than the ones we lose by having these rules. It would be nice if NTPA had the same limit as us with about 25 vehicles out here that could hook with both associations. After talking to Brian Shramek at a pull last year with their tractor they went to an event and accidently put the cable through the wrong air shut off hole and the 5 inch holes were about half shut. They did not notice it till they went to shut them after event. It ran fine and after reading computer it ran 280 lbs. of boost instead of normal 320 lbs. That is with 4.4 turbos on top. He is going to send me that measurement so we can look at the square inches. I think with that info a 4.1 restrictor plate hole is too big and should be maybe 3.9 to 4.0 inches. Last year for OTTPA it was the perfect storm for bad numbers in our DSS class. Some competitors retired, some waited on parts, 2 or 3 of the 1-time hook tractors didn’t come this year. So it is not all about limits but that will be the biggest problem in the years to come if we do not do something now and follow down the path of NTPA. All our diesel super stock vehicles in all classes did not have to run the VP Racing diesel fuel as it did not work like it has in our single turbo classes so that is not an excuse not to come to our events. Thanks, Doug |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Posts: 744 |
If you put a restrictor plate rule in I hope all put a top turbo wheel rule in as well.
If its just a restrictor plate rule only then be prepared to see some good explosions from top turbos as guys experiment with new wheels to pull more in. Turbo builders and wheel builders are licking their chops at this idea. Not saying it cant work, but head the obvious problem off now. COO for OTTPA www.outlawpulling.com www.truck-specialties.com Schaeffer Oil Representative [www.schaefferoil.com] |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Smoke fan
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Restricting the turbo will bring the class down to a more affordable level. Restrictor plates sound like a great way to trash top turbos! Adam is right on that aspect. DSS would be a turbo manufacturers dream. And after you blow up the turbo everything down stream needs to be gone through.
But if you limit the turbos on a DSS you will need to limit the turbos for the booze burners too. Some smokers pull LSS and HSS. Limit the smoke and they will never be competitive against the booze tractors. Not saying it's a bad idea. Just saying there may be a few issues with it! |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Truck puller
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Going from turbos that cost $2200 new to a spec class turbo will jump the cost of these turbo a whole bunch. These restricter plate will be dirt cheap and still let you run what ever turbo you want. But you have to size it correctly for the power you want the class to be. It's basically like making a Smoothbore spec turbo without all the cost. Trying to run a big turbo behind one of these restrictors doesn't hurt the turbo it actually makes a turbo that is to big hard to spin. It's funny people that complain about cost to compete want high dollar spec turbos they can't afford. Like I said earleir these style restrictors have been used for years on turbo engines gas and diesel. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Truck puller
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This restricter tube idea has been around along time in turbo motorsports with FIA sanctioned racing. The design of the tube can really change max horsepower even with the same size inlet. So there is a bit more to it than just specing a inlet size. This was actually tested on diesel trucks. Top turbo wheel size won't work. It never worked in diesel trucks. You had 2.6in(66mm) wheel which was actually a clipped 85-88mm. This will happen if you go that route. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Truck puller
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The other thing you should also consider if you limit the top turbos guys will just drive them harder to get power back. As they are not even being pushed now. This will create more boost and more broken blocks. The smoothbore rule change in diesel trucks jumped boost 30psi at the same hp. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Truck puller
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I really don't think rules will help the class I think it will hurt. But the restricter plate is extremely cheap option and actually hurts guys trying to run large turbos behind it.
I think what you need to do is get pullers attracted back to classes like diesel super stock. Which will be difficult because of classes like 8500 limited pro. It's a lighter weight 1250hp class that is affordable and extremely reliable. This class allows about anyone to be competitve without spending unlimited dollars. Now a top of the line 8500limited pro cost isn't really much less than a reliable decent power dss. But guys are going to have to live with the fact they might not have a chance at top dog. But for the same money they can get into a high horsepower fairly reliable tractor and don't have to worry about a bunch of rules. Atleast that's why Im trying to work towards getting rid of a diesel truck build a component tractor myself. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Registered: 09/16/2014 Posts: 153 |
Good point Adam on turbo wheels, but just too hard for tech to police. Some of these are hard to get to and with restrictor plate in shut off it is easy to make a go/no go plug and check as tech checks air shut off now before events. In the 2.6 truck class a lot of these turbos instead of being small frame turbo like our 3.0 Super Farm tractor classes they are large frame like our 4.1 turbo and up to 3.7 inch behind the 2.6 map ring. Horsepower went from 600 horsepower to 1400 horsepower in last 5 years. They tore up engines and rear ends until every association number of vehicles at events went down. No new pullers were getting in this class and now the 2.5 class was started to get these new pullers to join. If they police that turbo it will work if not it will go the same way as the 2.6 class. We made the rule of aftermarket rear ends and also gave option of 3 inch smooth bore turbo this year and we are up 300 percent on vehicles this year. Instead of following NTPA horsepower increase of over 1200 horsepower in DSS class in just last 5 years a restrictor plate will stop that. Yes with better technology, computers, dyno, and turbos they will still gain more but it will be very little. The ones that want to push the turbos harder to get more air through a set size restrictor plate will pop some turbos, but after sucking those parts through the other turbos and engine they will find the breaking point and stop there. Same as big Pro Stock turbos as the early ones were not as reliable as the ones that are used today. With Brian Shramek 4.4 turbos being restricted with his air shut off half shut, he saw no turbo problems and I think all turbos will live better, especially the bottom turbos with less horsepower and boost. In all our classes like big pro stock we have gained most of the new members as they feed up from the lower tier classes as those classes get big numbers and a lot do not get a check. This did not happen till we put a limits on that class. Yes it still cost a lot to build a Pro Stock, maybe even more than a DSS but they know they will not have to feed that monster all year with parts and time to work on it. I look for a limit on our Diesel Super Stock class to make it more inviting for pullers to go to that class and even some that left that class to go back to it. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2016 03:04AM by Doug Roberts. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Truck puller
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Looks like your mind is already made up on going to a restricter tube setup. So how long will it take to get these supplied to pullers for next year. Depending on design guys will have to change their airshutoff setup and take up even more room under the hood where most are rather tight already. Also most likely some turbo changes depending on inlet size restriction. |
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Re: Diesel Super Stock in OTTPA
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Registered: 09/16/2014 Posts: 153 |
As far as Outlaws our pullers will look at this at our banquet and decide what to do. I see that NTPA has went to a restrictor plate and it will be good to see what size they come up with and work together for the future of this class for everyone. We all want the same thing, to keep these tractors on the track to give our fans a good show. Pullers are usually their worst enemy when it comes to changes and especially limits. Pullers will never agree on things and it up to the class reps and the association to step in for the betterment of the class and sport. Remember the roll cage rule that really cost NTPA some numbers that first few years when other associations did not have that mandatory rule. Who would want to pull without one now? The pullers that are on top and winning now are going to be against change, yet maybe in a year or two when breakage and cost is too great they will be for it. I have a long list of pullers that were against rule changes and limits I implemented in the past tell me in just a year or two later that was the best thing we ever did for their class. If the class does nothing and numbers continue to decline then the board has to decide if this is detrimental to the promoter, fans and association and we have to step in. Hopefully the class will make the right decisions for limits and I can go to the promoters and tell them, yes the numbers are down this year and we realize that we have a problem, but work with us as we are making changes to help that problem. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2016 03:28AM by Doug Roberts. |
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