Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 14, 2017 07:40AM
While I think that the Mod Turbo class (other than a name that makes no sense) is one of the most exciting classes in pulling I believe that it's time for the Interstate Mod Turbo class to join the rest of the pulling world are allow the P Pump that the NTPA Lt. PS class is now running. The Mod Turbo class is using virtually the exact same rules that the Lt. PS class is using other than the A Pump that Interstate mandates. It just makes sense to have rules that mirror a class ( Lt. PS) that is already very successful and is showing steady growth. This is just one more example of having a rule that drives up the cost of pulling. When you limit the market for a tractor part that you both buy and sell you drive up the cost. I am sure that there are many more P Pump's for sale and wanted than there are A Pumps.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2017 08:10AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 14, 2017 09:58AM
The Interstate Mod Turbo division is essentially the same as the USA-EAST Limited Pro Stock class. Both are exciting pulling classes and both enjoy large numbers of competition vehicles - many of which actually pull with both Interstate and USA-EAST. I would estimate that there are 40+ tractors that fall into this category. These classes are limited at the PUMP and not at the Turbo. And with the advent of the 'super' A pump the failure rate has been reduced significantly. USA-EAST has a specific problem with the class since Super Farm Tractors are permitted to compete along side the Limited Pros. Interstate does not permit Super Farms. And we know from experience that a Super Farm will not compete successfully with an Light Pro even with a 1000lb. weight advantage. So in the case of USA-EAST we will not be changing to Light Pro in the near future.

BTW. as an experiment in 2017, USA-EAST will permit an NTPA Light Pro to compete in our Limited Pro/Super Farm class with a 19" drawbar. Each tractor will only be permitted to participate in two (2) events and that drawbar height may be altered based on results. I would expect to see this for the first time at SugarCreek on Friday, June 30 for the Harvest Barn Smoke-Out.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 14, 2017 11:00AM
The truth of the matter is that if FPP allowed a P Pump in ( NTPA LT Pro) then all his tractors that normally compete with him could go elsewhere to pull. Rick Likes to be just different enough so that "his vehicles" can't go pulling anywhere except FPP. Another class that has bastardized rules is his 2.6 class. Must run OEM drive line but you can run a 4.1 with a 2.6 slug an inch in front of it.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 14, 2017 11:09AM
How about when will they allow a component chassis in either of these. If the Dyno numbers people speak of they are up around the same HP as the pro stocks where years ago.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 15, 2017 12:18PM
Actually this is an interesting topic. Will Interstate Mod turbo change to a P-pump?... No, I don't see it happening. They have been using A-pumps for many years, there have been a lot of money spent to develop the A-pumps that are offered today. It's what makes the Mod turbo class, what it is. Just like if you go to Ohio, they have a light pro class, but they limit the turbo size, that's what makes that class unique.

As for the FPP limited pro's, its another name for Mod-turbo. Sorry but Rick is not going to change his rules unless Interstate changes. Cause the Interstate guys do pull with him and some of his guys pull with the interstate. If you look back in history when Rick started this class, there was a large support from the Mod-turbo tractors. Everyone realized the P-pump with a 3x4 turbo wasn't enough. The a-pumps are as reliable as the p-pumps today. Years ago there were issues.

Remember the rules are voted on by the pullers, also changes are also voted on by the pullers.....

As for the component chassis, I see the light pros going to it in 2 to 3 years. The horsepower numbers I have been hearing are wild.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 15, 2017 01:38PM
Be careful what you wish for. Guessing a lot of those Lt. pros can't or won't spend the money on a component and they will be coming to your class!!
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 15, 2017 01:49PM
I know the whole component thing is a sore subject. Come on, come pull my class. Hell if my rules allowed component, I would do it in a heart beat. They will spend the money, they might kick and scream, but in the end they will spend the money. If you are pulling, you are spending money.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 15, 2017 01:58PM
the lite pro class doesnt have a turbo limit. the rules between mod turbo and light pro are almost the same except the stupid a-pump rule. they could buy a 3 or 7 series p-pump for less money. the mod turbo is a good class but the pump rule is a joke. yes it makes the class unique but you can also be uniquely stupid.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 15, 2017 02:28PM
Central Ohio Tractor Pullers (COTPA) has a class called Light Pro that does have a turbo limit. That is what makes them unique vs NTPA Light Pro.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 15, 2017 02:47PM
Thank you.... MH49.

If you want a good p-pump will cost you $12k. That's a 16mm p7100..... the A pumps are in the $6,500 to $8,000 range. I have both sitting on my shelf. That's why they are called Mod Turbo and the other class is called ligh pro, 2 different sets of rules.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 15, 2017 03:03PM
There were 4 brand new mod turbo tractors and 3 540-a pump tractors from New England at Keystone this year which are same as mod turbo but they may call it something different. Just not sure why anyone would think that class needs changing. There was 30 tractors entered and only two from fpp productions so there is another 15 of these tractors that wasn't even there. I know for sure of two light pros that took off their p-pumps and installed a-pumps same owners just switched class and both are from Ohio. There was another 10 mod turbo tractors that didn't come, that's 55 or $550,000.00 worth of pumps that would have to be bought to make us all even again but with 400 more hp not to mention billet cranks and full turbo upgrades.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 15, 2017 11:44PM
My concern is always about uniform rules. Uniform rules in my mind are a "win-win" for the pullers, fans and promoters. When we have classes that are ALMOST the same but one group runs the A pump and the other (larger) group runs the P pump then cost goes, up not down. Uniform rules allow pullers to travel, to buy and sell one single style pump. While I do realize that there will be a cost switching to the P pump I am sure that some pullers already have both the A and P pump and for others pullers season their pumps are rebuilt and or replaced with the latest and greatest A pump. I do wonder how many suppliers of P pumps are there verses people that build A pumps?


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Dick Cmon man March 16, 2017 12:40AM
Quote

but one group runs the A pump and the other (larger) group runs the P pump then cost goes, up not down. Uniform rules allow pullers to travel, to buy and sell one single style pump.

Please explain how the switch to P pump will make cost go down for any of the 55 pullers Curt mentioned in his post. Please do not attempt to use then some will have two setups so they can go different places to pull as that is a personal choice not a mandate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2017 01:44AM by MH49.
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Re: Dick Cmon man March 16, 2017 03:00AM
The whole mentality in the "A" pump region is the same....they have a sandbox and don't want anyone else in it. I say put a rule in the P pump orgs that says no A pumps allowed. What is good for one is good for the other I would say.
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Re: Dick Cmon man March 16, 2017 06:07AM
Just leave the Mod turbos alone! They made there rules like Curt said back in 1991, if people didn't like the a-pump they could have pulled in another class. But guess what?..... There are over 55 tractors on the east coast, which might be safe to say that don't have a problem with the a-pump. They are a great group of guys and they put on a hell of show. I'm sure I'll get in trouble for this, but I think they put on as good, an some cases better show than the light pros. The mod turbo class has more color than the light pro class, per night...
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 16, 2017 04:34AM
I agree there should be uniform rules, we had our rules since 1991, FPP copied our rules in 1999 and New York and New England have adopted our same rules. So why should we have to accommodate the Light Pro class? why didn't they adopt our rules? You know they had a choice just like we had and we chose what was best for us. The beauty of it is we can run anywhere in the country with our set ups everyone else is limited with theirs. So we are truly the unlimited class all these other classes are the limited classes we can run anywhere. Anyone with a factory head and a-pump can come and pull with us anytime they want. I have told many guys and the offer stands if you want to come to Keystone and run an a-pump I have lent pumps out all most every year including this year. I know it just eats some guys up that they about these a-pumps, like the fellow that made the comment about the sandbox, but that's his issue not ours. So yes it is our sandbox and it is the biggest and the best and all are welcomed but you have to play by our rules. That is my opinion and anyone is welcomed to disagree with anything I said.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to different chassis March 16, 2017 12:13PM
Its funny how everyone says that a 540 a-pump tractor can compete with a 540 p-pump tractor, but interstate, usa east , power pullin will not let the light pros to run with them. And if you let the light pros to run make them weigh 8500. no different then the limited pros and superfarms together. Usa east is already hurting for tractors in that class wouldn't hurt to get acouple more tractors.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 15, 2017 05:05PM
In my opinion, components don't belong in light, or limited pro. If they allow component, what's next? Sigma pumps? Billet heads? With the problems the 10 pro's have currently at state level in different parts of the country, this will contribute to the demise of 10 pros at state & regional levels. I don't know the answer, but I have a bad feeling that this problem will become reality sooner than later....
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 15, 2017 09:43PM
They are already running recast / billet heads now. Some would argue about the sigma pump cause they say it would be cheaper than the current p-pumps. I don't know what the final answer should be but it needs to be worked out soon and have one set rules for everyone. The problem I have is different organizations tweek the rules so now you have to choose who your going to pull with. Keep a uniform set of rules and then maybe there numbers would go up.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 16, 2017 01:06AM
Why would interstate change the rules? They have a good thing going and a huge amount of tractors. I was thinking about it while we were at keystone and I agree with curt, there are at least 50 "Mod Turbo" tractors out there. And these A Pump tractors can run pretty good with any light pro. Im pretty sure jason forrester took three a pump tractors down to florida and beat some pretty good light pro tractors. And Jimmy Williams and his Cattellac red mod turbo won a light/lim pro class out at gordyville
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 16, 2017 02:17AM
When whiskey nights and deranged start running this summer you will see more money spent on pumped just to try and keepup
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 16, 2017 02:30AM
Running the a pump and p pump together and adjusting weight or hitch height seems like the logical solution atop of the line apump is approaching 10 grand and you can buy a equally performing p pump for the same that way if your a pump dies or needs updated you have some choices
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 16, 2017 04:42AM
The only way classes should be blended is if you don't have enough of iron to make a class. someone will always have an advantage one way or another and the other group will always be upset. If it's a superfarm class and you allow Mod turbo tractors in then the superfarms should have the slight advantage, if its a prostock class and your allowing supers the pro's should have a slight advantage and vice versa.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 16, 2017 06:13AM
Curt, thanks for your response. I enjoy hearing/seeing the other side of the discussion. I do wish that all pulling could establish uniform rules. I am sure that your rules are voted on by the members and this is what the majority wanted. Thanks again for weighing in on the thread.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2017 06:15AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Time for the Mod Turbo class to switch to the P pump March 16, 2017 02:32AM
Just for clarification regarding recast heads. This is the USA-EAST rule in that regard:
Must use an OEM Style Cast Head and Block. No Billet or Aluminum. OEM Style stock head for the series of engine used is required. OPTION: A Re- Cast Head/block may be used but must remain within ½” of factory dimension specifications for the OEM head. No Billet or Aluminum recast heads/blocks.
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Re: Mandating something vs allowing something March 16, 2017 07:25AM
As a disinterested bystander- there is a huge difference between mandaring something (A pumps only) and allowing something (either type ok).

I have read a number of posts over the past few years from mid Atlantic folks about how Forresters have beaten P pump tractors, or how the A pump guys have ran even with (and even beaten) P pump guys at Gordyville. No argument here. Those are true statements. And, Mr. Forrester is correct that the Mod Turbo class has existed longer than the NTPA Lt Pros (and now PPL.. look out for PPL making a real run at this class in the next couple years). Also true.

Since it has been established both types can be competitive, instead of mandating only one, wouldn't a better business decision be to allow both? That is more potential members and dues for those organizations. I bet if we ever see the Light Pros at Bowling Green, and they deserve to be both as part of that show and an NTPA Grand National class (hint for NTPA - wake up or the other guys will make it part of their top circuit), several eastern A pump tractors would show up, and I would not be shocked to see one somewhere in the winner's circle.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2017 07:32AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Mandating something vs allowing something March 16, 2017 08:34AM
I know that you guys can go anywhere and hook with light pro and they can't hook with you guys
That's like saying the Outlaws with there setup's can go anywhere and hook but they can't compete
I know the idea with Outlaws was to save there pullers money but it's not like that, they all just wind up buying turbos to compete in other organizations. The mod turbo guys will just do the same thing now that light pro is growing
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Re: Mandating something vs allowing something March 16, 2017 01:01PM
From what I have seen both mod turbo class and certainly light pro have good numbers. Sure some say they need components, then after guys spend X amount of money to switch over and figure out the chassy and spend a whole year figuring it out then intercoolers will be needed and it will be back to the drawing board again. The ONLY guys who win are the guys that own a dyno. If it ain't broke don't fix it I say. Oh and I am tired of listening to people say. "The light pros are making the hp that pro stocks did ten years ago" while that certainly could be true, what about the tourque numbers. I suppose your gonna tell me a 540 motor with a 4.4 turbo or whatever size it is, is making the same tourque as a 680 with a 5.0 and a intercooler. Leave both classes alone. The light pro and limited pro are the hottest classes in pulling right now. Curt Forrester, very nice post
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