Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 16, 2017 10:39AM
I have no idea what was the logic behind replacing the Mods at the Ashland pull with 2.6 trucks, but it surely wasn't sound. The Mods might not be the first class I'm there to see, but they are so much more exciting than the 2.6 trucks. Yes...I'm there for tractors, preferably the S.S. classes, but the Prostocks are definitely gaining my interest. But 2.6 trucks? They're barely more exciting than the 2wd's. Sorry Ashland, but you lost some fans.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 16, 2017 12:28PM
As a member of another fair board here's what I have to say sounds like your in late 40s to mid 50s I understand you don't want see trucks but who spends money at fair teenage kids to 25 years olds who wants see trucks ? I think I answered your question y they brought in trucks
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 16, 2017 02:11PM
That's your opinion, I just watched the beer money facebook live pulling loop, and every time the tractors came up the viewership dropped about 1/3. These days more people are interested in trucks, not tractors, that's why..
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 16, 2017 02:17PM
What are you smoking!?!?
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 17, 2017 12:07AM
I hate to say this, but these other guys are right. The trucks attract more people than the tractors. Plus the younger crowd will spend more money at the fair compared to us older crowd. I have been to several OSTPA pulls that as soon as the trucks pull, you can see people leave to go home or walk around the fair. I seen this happening an thought they were getting something to eat, but they never come back. Also if you remember the poll about the classes from Louisville, the mods were the least liked.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 17, 2017 12:47AM
I'm not in my late 40's or 50's. There's nothing exciting to me seeing the trucks run. Same run everytime, except when they break an axle and all the action stops as they bring the payloader out, yet again, to pull another truck off the track. And trust me...I spend twice as much money as the "kids" do. I support the associations and the pullers by buying their gear, the 50/50's, more food than most people eat in a week. The trucks are just horribly boring. I'd rather see some wheels up action, than watch somebody take 5 minutes just to turn onto the track doing a 37 point turn, drive straight down the track after a 3 minute spool up, and get dragged off the track by a loader. Mind you, years ago, I went to my first pull to see the trucks, but quickly realized that the tractors were where it's at. Where I come from, the 2wd's are by far the least favorite. When they, and the 2.6's come out, I go spend more money because they're both painful to watch. I'll take Mods, before either of those classes, any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I drove from NY to Ashland to see their pull. Guess I'll spend my money elsewhere this year.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 17, 2017 01:00AM
Ooooh...look...a Cummins...
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 17, 2017 02:30AM
I never said the 2.6 class was fun to watch or not to watch. I liked it better when the ran the diesel trucks with there blower trucks. That was fun to see the diesel guys beat up on them. We were trying to explain what the fair board thought process might hav been. There is a larger market/ people following of trucks than some of the other classes. Like all fairs, they are trying to bring in the most people for their market cause that's what keeps the doors open. Another way to look at it...look at all the Cummins, Powerstroke and Duramax tshirts and sweatshirts you see at a pull versus any other shirts related to pulling.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 17, 2017 04:24AM
a lot of promoters around here are doing the same thing. they'll take a class of 4 diesel trucks over a class of 8 anything else because the crowd wants to see the diesel trucks. I don't dislike diesel trucks but would prefer several other classes over them, but I get where the promoters are coming from. it's about what gets butts in the seats. Look at the farm show on Saturday afternoon. Most people I know don't care for the diesel truck class they put in, at least compared to what other classes were available, but there's no denying attendance increased when that class was added.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 17, 2017 07:06PM
Quote
correct
a lot of promoters around here are doing the same thing. they'll take a class of 4 diesel trucks over a class of 8 anything else because the crowd wants to see the diesel trucks. I don't dislike diesel trucks but would prefer several other classes over them, but I get where the promoters are coming from. it's about what gets butts in the seats. Look at the farm show on Saturday afternoon. Most people I know don't care for the diesel truck class they put in, at least compared to what other classes were available, but there's no denying attendance increased when that class was added.

Well I hope that that promoter never complains about "numbers" in the diesel truck class then.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 17, 2017 07:37AM
When we were in Harrisburg for the Keystone Nationals we where amazed that after one of the FWD classes was done the crowd was ending to the exit in mass with a couple good classes yet to hook. I know that's a small sample but it was a real eye opener.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 17, 2017 05:01PM
Why don't we ask Patricia Justison she went from driving the corn fed 3.0 4x4, to the corn fed prostock!
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NFMS poll said tractors March 17, 2017 04:39AM
Top two favorite classes were limited pros and light supers
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 17, 2017 05:07AM
I can see where you guys are coming from. I just won't pay to travel to see trucks. I'm very happy that locally, my association only fills in with trucks, however...I would love to see a Limited Pro class locally. The show they put on in Wooster was very, very impressive! Fun class of tractors to watch, and the crowd was pretty excited. I do like the frame twisting semis though. He doesn't run the 2.6's because he's got compounds, but I would like to see Jesse Warren run his truck. He builds my injectors and that truck is mean.
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 17, 2017 02:26PM
At least you have to actually drive a Fwd Truck. not just build up boost and dump the clutch like on a tractor. I like watching a class that takes not only the machine but driver to win. If u seen one tractor run you've seen them all. JMO
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 17, 2017 02:45PM
You have to drive a truck?! The front end stays on the ground. Zero driving ability required to drive a truck. None. I think your logic is severely reversed. With the front end off the ground, your steering wheel is useless. Takes infinite more skill to brake steer a tractor laying down 4000-7000hp, than it does to use a steering wheel with all 4 wheels on the ground with a whole 1200hp. I'm not really seeing your logic here. A 14 year old girl can rev up a truck, build boost, dump the clutch, and drive down the track, steering with the steering wheel.
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 17, 2017 03:25PM
Its a whole lot harder to hook a truck than a tractor. U cant walk a tractor out 75ft on the clutch then go full throttle! you'll be done for. not so in a truck. its a whole lot more clutch work in a truck, which equals more skill! It would be a whole lot harder for a tractor guy to go to a truck than vice versa.
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 17, 2017 03:36PM
That's laughable. I'd like to see a truck guy brake steer on 2 wheels. And let's see...4 wheels locked into the track compared to 2...trucks are child's play.
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 17, 2017 03:50PM
Let's look at this from a physics aspect...4 wheels driving vs 2 wheels, rear wheels spooled together so no need to brake steer since they're both driving the same speed, and no front wheels in the air, so you're just "driving" the truck, and the truck is 1/2 the hp of a tractor at best, 1/3 the hp of a mid pack SS and lucky to be a 1/4 the hp of a Mod... You've obviously never watched an alcohol tractor or a mod "walk" their tractor off the line before they get into it at 75 feet? You think the clutches in the trucks are anything new? They're borrowed from the tractors. Trucks take the least skill to drive down the track. They're a stepping stone class.
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 18, 2017 03:07AM
Yea, driving a tractor is easy! Drinking

https://youtu.be/t8qKa6Oz0EY?t=1m59s
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 18, 2017 02:31PM
Joel Allen get real. You are a complete moron
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 19, 2017 02:20AM
Coming from someone that hides behind anonymity? That means a lot.
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Re: NFMS poll said tractors March 20, 2017 02:22AM
Don't kid yourself , all pulling vechicles take skill to drive on any given track.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 20, 2017 06:53AM
You tractor guys are so caught up in your own little world its unbelievable. Red tractor, green tractor red tractor green, red, red, green, oh look an orange one! You can't even tell the damn classes apart, when we were at Keystone I heard more people in the stands saying "what class is this?" oh duh the limited light weight super pro stock hot farm class.

Don't get me wrong I respect any kind of pulling but I know the diesel pickups bring in crowds and they are all dumb 16-30 year olds who love to blow money and post pics of facebook with the sponsors names in the background.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 20, 2017 07:28AM
Please show me the mass diversity in the truck class, truck pull fan. 5 Dodge Cummins, 2 Fummins, 1 GM Duramax.
[www.google.com]
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 20, 2017 07:31AM
[youtu.be]
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 20, 2017 09:51AM
The fair boards and promoters here in Wisconsin and North West Illinois are doing the same by adding diesel trucks because of the crowd it draws. So it's how many peoples butts we can get in the stands and spending money to eat and drink
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 22, 2017 12:02PM
Newalkyholic,

First of all, I am a 4wd puller myself, but I will stay un-biased. Have ran tractors down the track as well.

Reading through your posts, I gather that you don't like 2wds period, 4wds are boring to watch and simple to drive and you like/respect tractors because you have to steer with the brakes, correct?

All pulling vehicles in any shape or form want to go as straight as possible, tractor guys don't wanna be tapping their brakes and 4wd truck pullers don't wanna be sawing on their steering wheel. So from start to finish, truck or tractor, all either driver wants to be using is the clutch and throttle. So when things go wrong (soft spot in the track) and the truck/tractor gets jerked over (yes it happens to 4wd trucks to), a good tractor driver doesn't panic and either gives his left or right brake a quick tap or a "soft apply" (depending on your setup, driving style and situation) but if the option is there at that time he/she will definitely use his/her front wheels to steer before the brakes. The 4wd truck driver does the same with the steering wheel, quick jerk or correct in smaller to larger increments as the "situation" progresses or declines (driving style). Braking with a tractor and steering with a 4wd truck costs footage. Is it easier to correct a 4wd truck then a tractor if your hit a real soft spot/hole, sure it is, but respect all classes of drivers with the finesse it takes to make it look easy and "boring" sometimes. Sometimes tracks can get somewhat "rough" width wise, that may not bother a big tired tractor, but it will cause a 4wd truck to grab, jerk, bounce, load/unload, etc., yes they may still be going straight, but sitting in the drivers seat it's a lot different story tying to slip the clutch ease/pedal the throttle to keep everything as smooth as possible to put down a good pass and not break your drivetrain.

2wd trucks: You say you respect tractor drivers because they have to have the ability to steer with the brakes. A small tired 2wd truck doesn't have individual brakes, they are also spooled/welded rear-ends, they also spend a fair amount of time with their front-ends in the air. On a full bodied truck they don't have the luxury of seeing their front tires or being able to look around the hood like you can on a tractor. When they hit a soft spot and it yanks them left or right, most people's gut reaction is steer to wheel opposite direction, well it doesn't help when the front end is in the air, so they may ride the left "pull" for 50' and then it may become a hard right "pull" all the sudden and they may correct steering again (tires on the ground or not). At a point things become "out of hand" in a 2wd truck, you have to set the frontend down to steer. You've committed to doing that.... crap, have you steered 2 turns to the right or one..... or when it went from one burm to the other did I correct both times, am I back to straight..... when I let this down to I have enough space to ease it down and just try and dance the tires to correct a bit and get back in.... do I let off quick, drop the front, correct, hammer it and hope it goes straight.....???? This all happened in the last 6.5 seconds, you got .25 seconds to think about how to correct the situation. If you wanna give credit to driver ability like you do the tractors, don't leave the 2wd trucks out.

4wd trucks: Yes it is the easiest to go/correct straight in one of these, gas or diesel. When you get bored watching these go straight most of the time, think of all the work these guys put in to make that happen. In the "lower" none dropbox/pro-fab classes, 1 ton rear-ends, etc., imagine the challenge of keeping that driveline in one piece with 800+ HP in front, imagine the work it takes for these guys to repair/replace those transfer cases, rear-ends, input shafts, output shafts, yokes, U-joints, ring/pinions, axles, clutch discs, etc. throughout the season. Respect these guys having to be on mechanic duty more then most. As I stated at the beginning, I am a 4wd guy, but I respect the aspects it takes to build/drive a tractor as well.

On your "physics" comment, you forgot to factor in tire size btw. Stick a "hot" 2.6 turbo 5.9 Cummins in a Light Limited Super Stock, lets say it's 800HP and 1800 lb. ft. torque, now lets only let you have 15.5-38's...... let me know how that goes. Now lets take your 7000HP tractor and say we somehow got that HP into a 4wd truck with an un-breakable drivetrain, it would take "infinite more skill" to finesse the throttle and clutch to hook a fraction of the horsepower on those 4 "little" 33/35"-12.50" DOT tires.


As for the original issue of this post of a class "you" like being replaced with something "you" don't like. Best way I can put it/relate it is: I am not a fan of newer country music. So for example lets say every year for the past 10 years my local county fair had 2 "retro acts", lets say Dwight and the Kentucky Headhunters and that was good for me, however it's just not paying the bills, because the younger generation doesn't even know who those guys are, so this upcoming year they book Eric Church for a headliner and Clint Black to open. Am I annoyed, sure (in my mind Clint is better then Eric)... but hey... Clint is still playing (tractors still pulling), Eric will play to (2.6 diesel trucks) and I will prolly just drink and bs with the friends I came with, new people I meet, etc. and enjoy what I came to see (Clint/Tractors). At the same time their are now 20-1 more fans there for Eric (weather I like him or not) then there was "The Kentucky Headhunters", the fair is a business, it needs to make money to have events and grow weather I like what they do or not, big picture they are doing it for the better or doing what they think is best for business (referring to music acts or truck/tractor pulling). An event/promotor needs to do it's best to provide entertainment for everyone within it's budget. Who knows, if "Ashland" guessed it right and diesel trucks bring in more people, they may have some more money to spend in the upcoming years and have the Modifieds, plus the 2.6's. Yes you will have to sit through those "boring" 2.6's again, but there's another guy sitting 3 rows back sitting through those "boring" Mods (in his mind/opinion).

Just be open minded, take a step back and think of the big picture and think what's best for the event/community as a whole.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 24, 2017 08:06AM
Screaming Bohemian,
While I can appreciate your point of view, I find some inconsistencies in your reply. Let me first say, that my reply above where I stated that driving a truck takes no skill, was inaccurate and rash. But onto some of your points.
Nowhere in my posts did I mention the skill involved in driving a TWD. I just personally don't care for the class. Not my bag. I do however, very much respect their driving abilities.
So, you bring up tire size. Keep in mind, that with increases in hp, typically come increases in tire size. So your example of a 7000hp truck, would not be on 35x12.50's. I mean, the Super Stock Diesel Trucks aren't limited to 12.50's, are they? No, they're allowed a wider 18" width. Just the same as a Superfarm is limited to a 24.5, while Superstocks run a 30.5. However, we still have to take into account that there are 4 wheels locked into the track. 4 spooled wheels, not independent wheels. To further muddy the waters, there is also a massive difference in wheel speed. While PSDT's are turning between 26-31 mph wheel speed, yes...a few run maybe up to 37mph, a Superstock tractor can see speeds in excess of 100mph. That's a completely different animal hitting that soft spot on the track. On 2 wheels, sometimes 1...
Which brings us to your point about, if a tractor's front end is on the ground, the driver will steer with the steering wheel. That's all fine, well and good, except it is also the most inefficient way to get down the track. Front end up, in a nice controlled loft is by far the most effective pull down the track. Bar none. I understand that trucks need to keep their front end down because well...those extra 2 wheels driving are more distance, and the only way to steer.
Finally, we come to weight. We all know that in pulling, weight is a distinct advantage. So while these trucks, with 4 wheels clawing at the track, are making considerably less hp than most of the classes I watch for tractors, they also weigh far more. So combine the considerably less weight of the tractors, with triple and quadruple the hp, along with only 2 wheels on the ground, and I think you can figure I feel is driving harder. Even our 6-7000hp Mods have to weigh 500lbs less than the trucks.
And one final note...Eric Church is the man! I've had tickets for months to see him in April. If your fair had him headlining, they'd do extremely well. Enjoy your day.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 21, 2017 01:59AM
I don't have a dog is this fight, but I'll give you my opinion based on my observations of pulling over the last 45+ years. Whether some of us older pullers and fans like it or not, the younger generation of pullers and fans are into diesel trucks. I'll admit, I don't get it. I think they're boring, just my opinion. With that being said, it was mentioned earlier about the money spent at these venues. The younger people are the ones spending the money, whether it's for parts for their diesel street trucks, or food and other items at fairs and festivals (I'd rather eat before I leave home). The hand that feeds the promoter, is the hand they're going to please. Those like my wife and I might not like it, but that's the way it is, and it's going to be. The target base for most items is aimed at 20 to 35 year olds, not someone like me at almost 60. Usually, as we become older, we become more frugal. That's not what promoters and vendors want. As far as the other classes, yes, there's a lot of the diesel tractor pullers who think their class is the only class. And if a class doesn't meet what they have, lets start a new class. The current modified classes aren't much better as you don't see the innovation in modifieds that you use to. Almost all pulling classes are becoming "cookie cutter". Order your chassis, sometimes complete. Order your engine or engines, drop them in, hammer the throttle. I'm not wanting to insult those who are pullers. There are still a lot of pullers who still do a majority of their own work, but it's becoming fewer and fewer. The point I'm stressing here is this. Just as the trucks and tractors of pulling have changed, so has the fans. While older fans and ex-pullers like me don't care for it, times change. If the sport is going to survive, it has to change.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 21, 2017 04:18AM
So, this same demographic (18-40ish) apparently has all the money and all promotoers should cater too is the same group that is responsible for "rolling coal" in the stupidest places/circumstances, also responsible for drunkeness and illegal shennanigans at major events (read: Shied Diesel Extravaganza)........sounds like trouble in the future of pulling to me.
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Re: Ashland Fair Bad Decision March 28, 2017 03:09PM
There is a reason OSTPA and NTPA picked up the 3.0 LPSD (2.6) class
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