Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 07:14AM
I started to think about a term that has come to my mind in reference to certain classes in pulling. The term is “ legacy classes” my thoughts around that term are this: do we, as fans like a class because of what it used to be and not what it really is today. Are some of these classes living on their reputations verses what is acutely on the track? The classes that come to mind for me are the Pro Stock, Open/Unlimited SS class, DSS class and the Unlimited Mod class. I realize that all four of these classes are the foundation of the national organizations. And in their day they where the most exciting and anticipated classes in all of pulling. However in these four classes we are seeing no growth and in fact we are seeing decreasing numbers. I, like so many fans remember the glory days of these classes however I fear that national pulling can not sustain growth without healthy numbers in these classes. Well I still love all these classes I am very concerned about their survive-ability. Is there any solution that will increase numbers? So far the answer is no! So far the powers to be in pulling have not been able to write rules that will encourage growth. I don't think that it's not from a lack of effort on the part of leaderships, rather a resistance to change within the classes.

I know that I am going to get “ leave the classes alone” post from many, however from a fans point of view if they buy a ticket I believe that you should be entitled to at least 10 top quality vehicles in each national level class.

Are there solutions? Sure, however it's going to take cooperation on everyone's part. The pullers need to start thinking about rule changes, organizations may need to combine classes, the PS can not keep going down the road of unlimited air and fuel, there needs to be some pump and or turbo limits. The DSS and the 650 Alcohol SS need to find a way to combine the classes again. The Unlimited Mod class needs to rethink the engine numbers and weight limits in their class.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 08:37AM
I don't have an answer other than getting cost down and or prize money way up. The East Coast series gets just about 10 tractors to hook and they include SS. Three families make up for most of the class- Martin, Moore and Hoyt. You take any of these away and the class is hurting big time. If you look at the Interstate series there are a lot more tractors in their classes but if you take out multiple tractor owners you again loose a big portion in the Mod Turbo class but I think they would survive. I feel it still comes back to having real deep pockets. I felt we could swing the upgrade from enhanced farm to pro farm when the class first started but now that's turned into anything but a starter class. Watching the pulls at Keystone tells me that if you want to be a finals tractor in any class you need $$$$$$'s. What does it cost to buy a built Pro-stock today ? I know Don Slama gave me a ball park price of $120,000 for a Super farm and that was a few years ago. What does it cost each year to up-grade and maintain. I would bet in the $5000 range and up for EACH hook for a Pro stock. To win what ?
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 08:54AM
Why are you entitled to see at least 10 $300,000 tractors in each class for your $20.00 ticket.
What will that same ticket price get you at a Nascar event or NHRA or NBA or any other event where the competitors are spending the kind of money the Unlimiteds or SS classes are spending?
What does the puller deserve for paying his entry fees and $500+ in fuel to bring his $300,000 tractor for you to watch?
Every one wants more classes, why is it you are not content with watching all the new classes for your $20.00 plus 4 or 5 Unlimiteds as a bonus?
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 10:06AM
I don't believe that I feel "entitled" to have a certain number of vehicles in any classes. However if the fans feel that they are not getting their monies worth for their entertainment dollars they will find another place to spend it. If you are happy spending your money on 5 vehicles in a class and 30 in a show then that is your prerogative. But pulling can never lose sight that is it the motorsport entertainment business.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 10:23AM
Where else do you feel you can spend The same amount and get more?
Nascar race?
National NHRA event?
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 09:13AM
It's all about the money. How many guys can afford to build a competive tractor in any of the 4 classes you mentioned. Limitations are hard to implement because those who have already bought the power aren't that eager to give it up.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 12:27PM
I agree we have to slow it down.I am only going to comment on the pros.Turbo and pump limits are not the way to go when you limit things they get expensive because you try to get everything there is just like the super farm turbos a new one every year you know the story. To me the best way would be to lower cubes say to 540 even the big deeres were 531 from the factory 619 only came in 4 wheelers. The smaller cubes would lower fuel requirements and also limit the size of the turbo.Smaller cubes would address several issues.smaller bores would cut back on the need for billet blocks and would also make it easier for Allis ,Ford and others to get into the mix which has been a bone of contention for some time. I really think going less cubes deserves a serious look.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 12:37PM
I never understood why they made the limit 680. It takes a lot of money to get there!
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 12:35AM
Because there were engines that were already at 680 at the time.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 01:08PM
Until limits are put on pulling to make it more reasonable the sport will continue to falter. As Dick stated above the big classes are dieing Why? Because of money who can afford a top diesel super or mod? Fewer and fewer can. And NTPA and PPL have done absolutely nothing to control costs . If anything they have made it more expensive. Lets take one class say the light super class. Several ways to slow this class up a bit and save pullers piles of money while making the class more competitive. But nope lets let it run wild and chase away 50% of the class because their favorites are winning. The sport is not so much about pulling anymore its about who has the most to spend. Like nascar it will die a slow miserable death.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 01:21PM
Makes one wonder if some sort of turbo limit should have been put on the light pros. Costs on that class are beginning to accelerate rapidly.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 03:07PM
Speaking from a numbers standpoint, Richard is partially correct. Pros are expensive, but both major circuits, and even Outlaws if you want to include their version, have good numbers. NTPA unlimiteds had 10 precommits and good turnout at their Super National events. Diesel Supers are a dying class but even that class should have a few more vehicles on average in 2017. Open\unlimited supers main issue is NTPA and PPL scheduling over top of each other. This year there is only 1 session of points overlap so maybe, just maybe, numbers will average double digits.

That said, the cost vs payoff disparity is huge. Charge much more for tix and many people will not come. Btw, since minis have been a GN class since 1974, they should also be considered a legacy class.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2017 03:07PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 21, 2017 10:10PM
It costs a minimum of $22 million to field a NASCAR team.I don't have an answer but if you are trying to make a living just pulling tractors better have a great sponser.Being an owner,fan,and competitor for over 50 years I love all forms of motorsports and I agree costs have continued to go up but I blame some of that on the competitive nature of most everything and the more rules the more it costs.I think Nascar is boring until last 50 laps and tractor pulling is exciting but not as much as Monster trucks where the drivers promote their sport every chance they get.The promoter or sanctioning body can only do so much!I hate to say it but pulling was more fun 50 years ago when 200 H.P. was a lot and everyone got along.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 01:41AM
I believe most people have lost focus of what is actually going on. In my opinion we don't need more classes but rather need less. What we have learned in other forms of motor sports is make the vehicle you are competing in relevant to the people that are attending your show. If you are only planning on having diehard pulling fans that know all of the ins and outs of every vehicle on the circuit then keep doing what you are already doing. But if you are wanting to market yourself to the casual fan then all pulling organizations need to back up, regroup and get on the same page as to what their goal is. Most casual fans do not know the difference in pump, turbos or whatever else is under the hoods. All they know is what they see on the track and that is the make of the sheetmetal.

There are a lot of sayings in the world such as "if you want to keep getting what you already got then keep doing what you have always done". Most people remember what they refer to as the "glory days" of the 80's when there was all kinds of corporate money and exposure available. Has anyone really stopped and thought about what killed that momentum? In my opinion you had racers telling promoters how they were going to run the show and you can see the results from that now. Take mud racing for example. They were several organizations putting on national shows in the 80's plus you had TV exposure back then, What happened to mud racing? They got a little too big for there britches and thought they couldn't be replaced as an entertainment value and that is what I see happening to pulling if someone doesn't start putting the brakes on in a few different areas. There is a meme I see every so often and it goes like this. Somewhere on a Saturday night you have a racer getting a beer out of his refrigerator in his motor coach and sitting down on his leather sofa and starts to complain about the high cost of racing. Somewhere else on the same night a racer grabs a cold beer from his cooler in the back of his old truck and leans up against the bed and grins ear to ear saying that was fun tonight.

My background isn't in pulling but I enjoy watching a good show and that is what most people don't understand is lacking. It doesn't matter how big a tractor you have, how much money you spend under the hood or whatever the latest and greatest gadget you bought is, if you don't entertain the crowd they will quit coming back and butts in seats is what ultimately drives the sport. Take NASCAR for example, they have forgotten what actually caused their sport to grow and abandoned that fan base to the point that it is suffering a slow demise.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 03:50AM
I totally disagree with the statement " rules drive up the cost of a class". How can that possibly be, are you telling me that it's cheaper to build, own and run a Pro Stock than it is to build, own and run a Super Farm. They both have roughly the same cubic inches. Or it's cheaper to run a 5 engine Unlimited Mod than it is to run a 2 engine Light Unlimited Mod. If the statement is really true then pulling should just have a weight limit and let everyone do anything they want, that should drive the cost down. One pullers finds a new setup that gives them a few more HP and they sell their old setups and everyone in the class now has to follow suit. What is driving the cost up in the legacy classes are the rules.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 04:43AM
I think rules are only part of the cost issue. Your also paying for technology and the cost of tires goes up every year. No difference than a bag a seed corn , in the 80's 75 to 100 dollars , now well over 300 plus. Times have changed . So you pay to play
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 06:09AM
I don't agree at all. Tell me if a Super Farm is more expensive to build, run and maintain than a Pro Stock.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 07:14AM
Dick, I run a llss tractor and it cost to up date turbo's , injection pump because there's always upgrade because something works better . To comment on pro stocks and super farm would be unfair for me to make
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 12:32PM
there is ways to control the turbo rules also first and easiest way is any turbo is legal, but boost limits need to be set by say a wastegate. Very simple certain rules do cost money others don't. NTPA and PPL wont look at logical solutions they come up with crazy off the wall expensive ideas. Why or where do these ideas come from? If I was a gambler I would bet the parts builder helps chose the new rules .
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 05:24AM
Dick, I think you missed the op's point on rules driving up costs. I think the intention was that rules to limit a class become the new source of greatest expense. It starts the neverending quest to regain what you lost or in other words get parts to perform at a higher level than intended. It also adds to the specialization of the the part affected by the rule which in turn makes it a more valuable piece of the puzzle. Maybe you aren't aware but the name of the game is to make parts do what they aren't supposed to do and the guy who figures out how to do this while being within the rules can basically name his price Winking
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 06:06AM
You keep making these claims that the sport is dying. How exactly is it dying? Because people don't want to shell out $100 to live stream Louisville? Ten years ago no one knew where Hillsboro Wisconsin was, now it has 4 shows and is one of the biggest pulls in the country. Ten years ago there used to be one pull in the winter that people actually knew about and now there are about 8. Ten years ago Lucas Pro Pulling didn't exist. Seems to me that the sport has progressed quite a bit in the past ten years, so how exactly is it dying? You also say that the legacy classes are the problem and then you say that the SS classes should be combined again? I guess I don't follow that logic. Why does a class need 30 tractors to be "alive" in your world? Every time you mention combining the SS classes, I mention that it will turn into a yearly rules change and bitch session about it just like most of the LLSS classes across the country. You have never once offered a rebuttal or even bothered to mention why you think fans want to see this, why you think the drivers want this or that the NTPA/PPL want to see this. Both classes are fine the way they are. Does it really excite you to watch 70+ two wheel drive trucks or 50+ super farms at Bowling Green? Do you think that could get boring to someone new to the sport? Have you ever stopped and thought about the fact that the classes are too big at some of these pulls? I'd personally rather watch 5 different classes with 10 tractors a piece than one class with 50.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 06:14AM
Were do you think that you are going to get 30 in a combined SS class, neither the DSS nor the Open SS class have 15 tractors that would give your total of 30. You would not have 20 in a combined class. I did not say all of pulling is dying, I said certain national classes need help. I do believe that regional/state level pulling is very healthy. I would also be very cautious to just name Bowling Green and Hillsboro, those are both great events, however there are just not enough of that level of pulling to show me growth in the sport.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2017 06:23AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 09:07AM
So the fact that an entirely new sanctioning body showed up with several series including a "Grand national level circuit" isn't a sign that the sport is growing? Winter pulls popping up all over, 4 different TV networks that cover some sort of pulling coverage and more new classes tell me that pulling is growing just fine. Hillsboro proves my point: it was non-existent 10 years ago, now it is probably the fastest growing event in the country. That sounds like growth to me. Of course some classes are smaller in NTPA now that PPL is around, that is part of growth. You still haven't shown anything to make me see why the SS classes should be combined. Which drivers have told you that they like the idea? Which sanctioning bodies have told you that they like the idea? What would make this different than all the LLSS classes that are continually changing rules to try and appease everybody?
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 10:31AM
My first thread said that maybe not every puller will like the idea, however that's what strong leadership does, make the hard decisions​. And, yes I am glad the LLSS are working toward uniform rules.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 11:21AM
Dick, no sanctioning body in its right mind would combine the dss and the open ss. The reason they were split is obvious, it killed the dss class..... It's killed diesels in the light ss class. The DSS and the OSS already have uniform rules as do the light supers.

As far as the superfarm vs prostock cost to build I'd suggest you call a reputable builder of each and just find out. I'd suggest maybe contacting Tim Enger and asking what a component chassis setup for a big block deere cost vs a BBJD superfarm chassis of top of the line caliber.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 11:54AM
Can you just imagine the interest in a combined class. NTPA would have the most talked about high interest class in all of pulling. PPL would not have the ability to match that level of interest in any class.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 03:45PM
I can imagine how fast PPL would have a good DSS class
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 01:14AM
Sorry Dick , Combing the Diesel SS and the Open would be dead on arrival. Two completely different animals.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 10:01AM
I agree it would not be good for either class.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 10:08AM by PULLMX.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 22, 2017 11:58AM
I would bet that a new turn key Pro stock would be double the price of a SF. The upkeep on the Pro-stock would also be double because you are pushing the heck out a motor at 680 cubes with a 5" charger at 2 x the hp of a SF with a 3" charger.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 04:27AM
The LLSS is already a combined class. Don't hear too many people talking about it, except when they change the rules every year. Which you still keep avoiding every time I mention it. You also haven't bothered to mention one puller in either of these classes who wants to combine them. PPL had 13 SS committed last year, I don't see what they would need to change. If the NTPA wants more iron in the SS classes, maybe they should actually start paying these guys a decent purse. If 80,000 people walk through the door at Tomah every year, that's $1,760,000. Add in an $80 profit for every case of beer they sell and tell me why the purse is somewhere around $200,000? It doesn't cost 2 million dollars to put on a tractor pull, so where is all the money? Who is profiting from the hundreds of millions of dollars in iron sitting in the pits at a pull like Tomah? You want more iron in a class, start paying them what they deserve.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 08:12AM
With the LLSS class combining fuels, there's only sample class sizes . In the south alkys out number the diesel 3-1 and the diesel are 470 cubes. Now we at Badger State will be about 3-1 on they diesel side of Tractors that are 410 with intercoolers. With that begin said, we need to quit changing turbo rules, one turbo rule only . We are trying a weight difference to maybe even the playing field, will it work. We will know after the season . I see the National Rules for this class begin changed all the time to make someone happy, and that will cost more money to play
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 10:11AM
I thought the smokers could run in the SSO class anyway already? If so, why aren't they? And the fact that the purses haven't gone up in years doesn't seem to be an issue? The NTPA is getting what they deserve for getting rich off of all these pullers and then paying them garbage. There must be a reason PPL had 13 full time SS last year and the NTPA didn't. Ignoring that fact won't make a combined class any better.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 10:22AM
NTPA-WPI is Big business trying to make a profit. PPL was created to uses Sponsors to fund there Pulling organization.
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Re: Perfect test (psst.. Blue Shirts) March 23, 2017 04:18AM
I agree with Dick the best thing for the Super Stock class is reunification. Despite some people on here getting the vapors about the subject, it would generate lots of interest from fans. Steve Burge's test pass at BG last year ( or John Raymond's finish in SSO the year before that) are small sample sizes

Here is a modest proposal for a larger sample on a good track: Next year, the schedule for Bowling Green, session 2 on Friday afternoon shows both Diesel and Open supers in the same session.

I propose running both classes at the same time, same track, same sled setting but each runs for their own points and purse. If the diesels pull furthest or are right there with the alkies, then reunification discussions can commence for 2018. If the alkies clearly dominate as some fear, no harm done as the diesels still get their full points and purse.

If NTPA and BG would allow this experiment, that would be the most attended Friday afternoon session in the history of the sport. There is literally no downside and plenty of potential upside to this modest experiment.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 06:19AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Perfect test (psst.. Blue Shirts) March 23, 2017 04:52AM
So promoters are wanting GN DSS at a frequency more than NTPA and the pullers want booked.

And dss pullers dont want to combine.


Where is the issue again we are talking about???

Why is combining needed again?


Trying to identify the problem we are fixing.


COO for OTTPA

www.outlawpulling.com


www.truck-specialties.com

Schaeffer Oil Representative

[www.schaefferoil.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 05:06AM by AV.
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Re: Perfect test (psst.. Blue Shirts) March 23, 2017 08:53AM
Quote
AV
Where is the issue again we are talking about???

Why is combining needed again?

Trying to identify the problem we are fixing.
Only 3 DSS ran the entire circuit last year! Three. 3. For my Spanish speaking friends... tres. Or in Finnish... kolme. Or in German... drei.

The SSO had a few less hooks and double the full circuit participation but it was still anemic with only Six tractors running the full schedule.

That's the problem we're trying to fix. That's what sucks for fans. That's why the classes are getting less and less interesting to watch. Twenty years ago finishing in the top three in points was a huge accomplishment, now you just need to show up every week. That's pretty much sums it up in a nice little package. Here's some other fun tidbits of info:
- In 2015, Four DSS tractors made the entire circuit.
- In 2014, Two DSS tractors made the entire circuit.

Do you honestly still not see that there's a problem?


Jake Morgan
Owner, PULLOFF.COM
Independent Pulling News


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Re: Perfect test (psst.. Blue Shirts) March 23, 2017 09:58AM
As a fan I want more numbers all the time.


And I agree from a fans stand point that low turn out is not ideal.

But what I am pointing out is that its still wanted by promoters more than they want booked.


Its a business. Cost has driven pullers to other classes or out completely. The current competition wants x number of hooks for points.

Some promoters couldn't book this class because of that.

So from a long time fans perspective its bad, especially when comparing to 90s and 2000s. But from a business stand point what promoter is losing fans because of it?

Are promoters losing fans because the dss/ulss/mods not there and other classes are filled in?

These are real honest questions I dont know the answers too.

If promoter A averages 5000 fans for the last 10 yrs and this yr drops dss and still has 5000 at the gate does it really matter to those fans and promoters at that pull how many dss were there?

Let's say 6 run the full circuit this year in DSS and they average 10 at every hook. Did those promoters gain any more gate compared to the years you pointed out?

To me that is whats real to see what puts more butts in the seats and money in the promoters and sponsors pocket.

Rockwell, IA has been region DSS for years and some years good some not for numbers, but the gate has gone up each year.

Sometimes what we focus and talk about on here isn't was really translates to an actual pulls success. This site is a concentrate of a small group of very avid fans. The 5000 that go through the gate at a local pull, how many know about pulloff.com? How many know how many DSS are supposed to be there? How many who is running for points and who isnt?

All real questions sometimes we lose sight of because we remember what it used to be like.

Just another way to look at something vs the number of competitors that hooked. It seems some of these legacy classes may have found niche markets they do well in and some not so well.

If the problem of low DSS hurting a promoter, how does adding USS to the class fix the need for more dss? And vice versa.

Be careful what you wish for, if these classes merge you will see more dss guys go elsewhere or quit. It will have a bad effect because no one from either side will be happy.


COO for OTTPA

www.outlawpulling.com


www.truck-specialties.com

Schaeffer Oil Representative

[www.schaefferoil.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2017 10:00AM by AV.
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Re: Perfect test (psst.. Blue Shirts) March 24, 2017 02:04AM
But we have all the new classes to watch, wasn't that supposed to fix the problem?
If the DSS class goes away , are you going to quit going to pulls?
Every solution seems to be about limiting the pullers in one way or another.
It seems like you are saying "I would like them to not try so hard, just kinda try to do good"
It takes serious money and serious dedication to bring a top level DSS to the track.
Why is there not enough money coming in at the gate to support them?
Maybe the fans are not as dedicated as the pullers?
Why can we not put 50,000 fans in the seats at every pull?
How is it the top three or four DSS pullers fault that the gate revenue is not enough?
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Re: Perfect test (psst.. Blue Shirts) March 23, 2017 05:06AM
Finally something that makes since and can be done very easily.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 05:22AM
It's not the Fuel and air in PS class that needs the limit. It's the Cubes. You can argue all you want. 680 C.I. is just ridiculous. Now the B.B engines aren't taking it. This is the class for getting the most out of what you can. lower the cubes and let the games begin. lower cubes = lots of different thing to try, not cookie cutting
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 10:06AM
I've said this for years, "De-cube" If a builder can take a 466 cu. in. engine to 680 cu. in. , why can't that same builder take a 619 cu. in. engine to 540, 580 or what ever is decided. 35 years ago pickup trucks had 350, 351, and 360 cu. in. engines. Look at them now, 3.7 Eco boost and smaller. Point is- with today's Engine and Turbo Technology I think you would be surprised how much power could be made with these smaller cu. in. engines.
0
0
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 01:29PM
As I set here reading through another dead horse flogging of how "broken" the pro stock class is and how it has to be fixed by lowering the cube limit and the weight I ask myself, WHY doesn't LSS have 20-25 tractors at every GN or Champions Tour event like the pro stock class does, Seriously it's lighter and less cubes than USS so there should be 30 or 40 because it has to be way cheaper and everyone can build one and they will never require any repair or maintenance........
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 23, 2017 11:52PM
Limit the number of classes, there are too many Pro Stock wannabes classes forming. The idea of decubing Pro Stock just makes another class that is really close to the other ones that have been started lately. Leave the class alone stop the fake news!
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 24, 2017 12:34AM
+1000
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 24, 2017 04:32AM
limits are fake boundaries to change the course of the history in a class of pulling.
they only change the speed and direction at which and how money is spent on performance.
every class has or has had that one guy who stepped out to alter the course of the class to perform better than the rest of their fellow competitors.

If a class hasn't had that person they will in due time.

someone will always want to separate themselves from the rest of the pack, to be the best.
it depends on how many of their fellow competitors are willing to give chase to keep them in check.

the real question and bright idea to ask is

who killed the numbers in super stock diesel, open super, light super? your homework for today is to look at the major orgs results as far back as possible to find the culprit. call it a pre-plant game of Clue, pulling style. every class was humming along just fine until something or someone happened. remember its not a court of law just a fact check. in this case the guilty party or parties act under the notion of competition, to be the best and there is nothing wrong with that.

by the way pro stock has too many good tractors to be nearly dead though it is nearly all green. or is the assassin of pro stock here and we don't know it?

the idea of running dss and oss back to back at bg is interesting. if the top oss is 315ft and the top dss is 310-312, the door is open. if the top dss is 320, the door is kicked down.
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Re: Time to address legacy classes in National pulling March 24, 2017 08:01AM
I don't think enough was discussed about Lock n Load at BG last year. I know it was a "test run", but I assume he weighed the same 8,000 lbs? If I remember correctly ( a little fuzzy hehe) there was some breakage in the class, but he still would have been the only other tractor in the pull off. Also that weekend he wasn't even the strongest running tractor as the Triple Bypass won all 3 DSS hooks. Sure would be interesting to see where he would have stacked up that night....
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