01:00:06am, Saturday, May 18, 2024
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Why we have safety rules
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,349 |
Dangerous?
Look at video of Alberta pull from last weekend, especially the mod hook 3 minutes in. Nobody was hurt as this wasn't an accident. Is it just me, or was the driver being unsafe (I can think of more blunt words)? Opinions? |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Mm fan
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The driver should have been dqed but why were spectators at the end in the first place? |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Posts: 83 |
We still believe in natural selection eh? 2 poor 2 pull :-( |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Well I was there and pulling. The driver did nothing wrong or unsafe. He controlled the situation. as for people at end of track they were kept to sidelines |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Really
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When people are getting out of the tractors path they are too close. If there would have been a catastrophic failure there would be a good chance a bystander could be injured. I've seen this too often at brush pulls that do not provide enough seating for spectators. If people end up standing to watch the pull there is always a crowd at the end. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
He stayed in the throttle for quite some time after a red flag! He did control the situation, but unfortunately the flagman is the one who is supposed to be in control. So yes, he did do something wrong. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2017 03:01PM by Jake Morgan. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Well the video does not do the statement justice, the people were clear of the track besides how it looks. The only thing that was a concern to me as I was the driver of the tractor was the grooming tractor who was closer to boundaries than I like to see. I got out of throttle at 350' mark then grooming tractor moved clear so I got back into it. Normally we don't pull this far but was a floating finish and puller before me pulled over 400'. The event organizers did an excellent job keeping the track clear and hosting this event. I commend them for controlling the record crowd that was there, job well done. After watching video I was red flagged but I was almost 90 degrees to flagger when he red flagged me I did not see flag go, I pulled 458' safely and in full control. Tractorpulling is one of the safest motorsports in the world. Making statements like this without knowing the situation completely and using a very deceiving camera angle as logic to your claim can be detrimental to the sport and the insurance companies that happily support these events. Appreciate your concerns if that's what they are, but accusations on social media especially without complete understanding of situation can be very detrimental again to the growing sport of pulling. If you have any other concerns please feel free to call me I will happily help answer any of your questions concerns or face u in direction of someone who can. 306-fivethreezero-towzero26. Cheers |
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here we go again
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lucky
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Here we of again about full pulls and pulloffs and what happen to the 300 foot track. I went 330 not long ago and they reset the sled. Just sayin' |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Joe, awesome pull man. Dont let anyone make you feel bad about that. I didnt see anything wrong with what you did. If people at the end of the track thought they were in any kind of danger, I'm sure you would have seen them do alot more than just stand there. As far as people crying about the olden days of hoping for a 300' pull....
This is the modern era of technology. Could the sleds be weighted to slow everyone down? Sure. But at the end of the day its the fans that keep this sport alive for everyone to go out and pull. You've got to cater to your crowd or they flat out wont come. And who doesnt want to watch someone come out and throw down a 450' all out drag if you have the space to do it ??? Made my bird stand up. Just sayin. |
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Re: To Joe and others
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,349 |
As the person who started this thread, let me reply to Joe and a few of the other guys who posted that they were at that pull. First, I am not Jake or Richard and have no connection to either of them, but let me take the liberty of thanking you and the other pullers/workers from western Canada who follow this board.
I'm not a puller but have been a lifelong fan. We're all shaped by our past experiences and here are 3 reasons (of many) why I am so gung-ho about safety. I was at a place called Tomah, Wisconsin in 1997 when a puller named Randy Rose probably felt in control... until he wasn't. Randy Rose accident The following year, I was at a place called Fort Recovery, Ohio when a puller named Dave Walsh probably felt in control.... until he wasn't. Dave Walsh accident About a decade later, I was at an indoor pull at a place called Murfreesboro, TN when a puller named Rex Kuhn probably felt in control.... until he wasn't. Had this hook been during the Saturday Finals when more people were there instead of the Friday prelims, and had he gone just a foot or two farther, he would have been in the stands.Kuhn in the sand. I could also point to a Hoosier State pull at the Indiana State Fairgrounds when I was a boy when a mod puller named Ken Rice blew up his allison-powered "Coyote" tractor and injured fans in the stands from flying hot metallic shards. To this day I can remember a lady on a stretcher with EMTs working on her. There are videos and links to a number of news articles about pulls gone wrong. Even a great such as Art Arfons wrecked Green Monster at Hamburg, NY one time in the late '70s when a sled malfunctioned. Control is an illusion. Any puller of a high hp vehicle is one sled malfunction or other unforeseen accident away from tragedy. From the video, there were other things that struck me as less than completely safe besides one 20 second pass on a 3 engine mod. Honestly, you as a puller should never have been put in that position had the sled been more properly set. I agree completely with the person below who mentioned putting on a show, and from the video the crowd enjoyed it, but that doesn't mean safety becomes an afterthought (I'm NOT saying anyone connected with the pull wasn't trying their best to have a fun event... but there are safety aspects that could be improved for future pulls). Actually, what interests me more than commenting on one pass by one vehicle is how is pulling in Alberta and Saskatchewan? From the video, it looks like there are some tough TWDs, a number of minis, and at least a couple of nice looking high hp mods plus other lower hp mods. Do most pulls draw good crowds? Are there many diesel tractors? How many hours does it take to drive from Saskatchewan to Alberta? I've seen Adrian Hunter, and (when they were still pulling) Bill Lawrence and Ed Wandler from western Canada but am not that familiar with other pullers. If some of the guys wanted to take a bucket list trip to Bowling Green or another US pull, you would all be welcomed with open arms. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2017 02:36PM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: To Joe and others
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Anonymous User
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I have a hard time comparing these 3 instances with the original, other than Kuhn's run. Especially the modified. That was sled malfunction that caused that. Kuhn, I can almost guarantee, meant to park on top of the sand pile. Now, all that aside, you can do whatever you want to bubble wrap the world and make it a safe place but at the end of the day, even with all the new advances in safety and technology, pulling can be dangerous. Everyone who's ever strapped into a seat or even sat in the stands is well aware of that. You can take every precaution available but at the end of the day sometimes @#$%& just happens. This sport needs to grow, big time, and that's not going to happen if people continue to drag down the guys out there trying to make it a fun and exciting event to come to. |
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Re: To Joe and others
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was there
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i was there, kuhn's was a sled malfunction. pan never dropped push down never kicked in. here's a better view video: [www.youtube.com] |
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Re: To Joe and others
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Driver
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Drag it down,are you serious,let someone get hurt or worse killed,an what does that do for the sport,THAT SURE WON'T GROW IT !!!! |
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Re: To Joe and others
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Driver
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Message was meant for the above post. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Posts: 508 |
things are different in Alberta? what ever happened to the safe runaway zone? and yes those people should not be standing there! as you can see? when they start moving out of the way? they are way too close! finish end flag man should continue to display the red flag until every one is moved back! Doubt event insurance is really in effect there? enough youtube videos now with runaway pull vehicles causing carnage? don't need more? |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Hmmmm
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Floating finish taken to the extreme. Scary end result. Obviously, people responsible for original sled setting did not know their vehicle's tradtional placing, to help them determine if sled test hook was actually a proper sled setting. That alone is the biggest problem at too many pulls as the officials really do not know how certain vehicles really perform.
In this video, Mod tractor in question sure made things very scary and looked like he was willing to sacrifice other people's lives for the sake of a pull win. I am glad that apparently no one was injured. But this was not the only safety issue seen in this video. Had people walking across the end (obviously, they did not have much common sense) with a flying TWD not all that far away. Was there someone dealing with crowd control, especially when a pull vehicle was about and under motion on the track? Video would have been worth a lot more if videographer had been near finish end of track. Excellent quality otherwise. Nice to see quality of Alberta pull vehicles. Overall, facility appeared really nice, with good safety boundaries except for far end past the fence. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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I was one of the people working the crowd at the end of the track. There was a path at least 30' wide that was open for him as far as people went and there was 600-700 more feet of runoff area ahead of him.
Harold |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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plum krazy
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no MATTER,SHOULD NEVER HAVE A PULL --ONE OR MORE PAST 320 FT. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Hard to tell from the video but the sled looks older and possibly without some of the more modern methods to stop a tractor. I wonder if was it just under weighted or was it fully weighted and set on fastest weight advance available but still not able to stop this 3 motor modified? I am a fan but would like to know if a puller had the thought that a sled was not able to stop their tractor or some tractors in the class being pulled; would puller be hesitant to hook to it? |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Posts: 508 |
your joking right?? 30'? our track is at least 50' wide, then we put them big blocks along side track bout another 15-20' from white line, then we put crowd fencing up about 25-30' from blocks, and finally bleachers? need lots of them other wise you have ignorant people standing leaning on fence in front of others? did i mention bleachers are set back enough so that emergency vehicles can travel on front if needed? and nobody is allowed off end of track and runoff area? otherwise Finnish line flag man holds up show until they move! |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Floating Finish
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You dont hear much about Alberta pulling..Looks like some pretty good pullers up that way...It would probably be a good idea to keep the spectators a little farther from the track.. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Old Mod Puller
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What are we doing???? Seriously, what are we doing? 350', 400' runs? Come on now, let's get real for a moment. I don't care whether its a floating finish or not, you can't justify a 400' run. I don't care how good of a show you want to put on for the fans, that kind of distance is idiotic. Any sled operator that can't adjust his or her sled so the class can finish at the 300' mark is not worth their weight in salt. I know I'm old school, but these kind of distances are headed for a serious accident not only involving the driver, but spectators as well. Many facilities can't safely support these types of runs. You also need some run off room in case something goes wrong, and it does! At the kind of speeds todays pullers are traveling at, the sled operators have very little time to react, in fact at best, they get one shot to stop it. If run off room is limited, then you're hedging your bets for a serious accident. Now, go ahead "bashers" and tell me what an old, out of touch man I am. I may be old, but I'm not stupid! |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Posts: 83 |
floating finish is the stupidest thing to happen to this sport. i wanna kick the idiot that that came up with that idea. 2 poor 2 pull :-( |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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LEWIS
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Ive pulled for 30 years and my Dad pulled farm class befor me the 300ft days was a lot more exiting as a puller and spectator any were you went to watch or pull you knew 300 ft was the mark evry one cries about the expence that that pulling has become. Cost to build could be cut just by making 300 ,350; or whatever a standard length track it takes different gears to pull 300 one night and 350 the next AND as far as the Brazil videos Sacha posted in 20 years they will be talking about the good old days of pulling back in the late 2000s not the check book pulling we have now I will guarantee were this 400ft pull was made a off the farm tractor with slite tuning could have made it past 300 running shoots are for hill climbers or driving in snow in KY just befor you come to a hill pulling today is a joke and the rural area fan base which is the farm base areas in the country knows it.Put 30,5 slicks and a1/4 mile track then you mite get the fans from the city |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Registered: 07/30/2016 Posts: 12 |
With only 2 super mod tractors and a limited number of pulls around here the boys like to finish the show so that the fans remember, most times we only get 1 pull per year in these small communities and like to leave a lasting impression. I do agree there shouldn't have been any fans at the end of the track, and that groomer shouldn't have been hanging out down there but you can rest assured Joe was in control of that tractor and the guy running the sled is very experienced. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Floating Finish
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Sorry,but a floating finish is the best thing that ever happened to the sport....I live within driving distance of 12 pulling associations and all have successfully used the floating finish for years....Both the fans and pullers like it.....Lots of the pulls I go to including my local one have 350' tracks with guard rails and lots of shut down area.....Back in the good old days I have seen as many as 3 sled resets to keep everyone from going 300'..At my recent local pull the average winning distance was around 325' with no sled resets..The show lasted almost 4 hours and most of the crowd stayed until the end....I've been to pulls with lots of pull offs that lasted 6-7 hours and the stands were empty at the end...I know lots of pullers and every one of them likes a floating finish......Outlaws was one of the first to go floating finish and most everyone including NTPA are now using it....Even Bill Vories recently posted on another forum that the Unlimited Mods needed a 350' track.. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Old Mod Puller
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(Floating Finish) I have no problem with the floating finish at pulls, and I guess I can get around having pulloffs. What I have a real problem with is 350' to 400' long hooks! In todays pulling world, there should be no sled operator that has to make two or three resets if he or she knows about the class that's hooking and how to read a track. I don't care what NTPA, PPL or any of the other associations have decided (310', 325' or whatever) on track length. We don't need the pulls of 350'+, we need to set the sled for 300', with the additional room in case of an emergency. If you want a floating finish a few feet over 300, that would be tolerable, but not 100' over. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,579 |
The one at fault first is the video person for standing at wrong end of the track, being that far out the line sight of the action changes the perspective of what looks like happened and what really happened. No decent barriers for spectators or crew to stand behind is an issue to me and a failure of the driver to heed the flagman immediately. Fingers pointed in a bunch of directions here, in my feeble opinion. Bryan Lively - 
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Fan69
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He wanted that extra $500 for hitting the white ford pickup truck they had bounty on.. listen to annoucer...lol |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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childs play
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And at end, Joe the driver stood up and showed off his enthusiast pumping victory arm swing. Showoff, meaning he had no intention of backing off even if it meant hurting someone. Very selfish. Childs play at best. |
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Re: Why we have safety rules
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Registered: 06/30/2008 Posts: 186 |
Water on the track please? I am wondering if the sled operator could even see how far the tractor had gone. I have not been to a pull that dusty before. Just an opinion and observation. |
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