04:41:05am, Saturday, April 27, 2024
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Nebraska State Fair
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wildman west
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What has happened to the big pull we use to have at the NSF. Looks to me like the fair is doing their part with good stands with the sun to our backs, good food, beer garden, plenty of bathrooms and the cost just 10 bucks. My grip is the pull sure didnt last very long and i didnt count tractors but coudnt have had much more than 30 if that many. seemed like half of what was here last year. We always get our Outlaw shirts and program for the year and no one selling anything. Whats up with that? Biggest crowd i have seen at the NSF since moving fair out here and shortest pull. Outlaws going to have to do better than this. Dissapointed for sure. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
There were 37 hooks in 4 classes, that would be over 9 a class. That's a pretty good average that most people would be happy with. Usually it's the promoters choice as to how many classes to have, then it's up to the organization to provide tractors per class. 9 tractors per class on a Sunday is always a good number in my opinion. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Way down
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Noticed the same thing with numbers. About 60 last year and about 35 this year. I saw the t-shirt trailer over in the infield, may had to go over there to buy something, not for sure. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Typical
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Typical of Outlaw pulls all year. According to website and app off a little over a 1/3 from last year. Big crowd this year and may not be next year if they don't bring more pullers. I always get my souvenir program and nobody selling. I have collected them for years. Why did they run all the tractor classes first and at the same time. If you got here late as the ones sitting next to us pull was over without seeing many tractors. The big screen was great as always and started on time but short on entries. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
That's a little fuzzy math to be honest. Last year they had 54 hooks over 5 classes, that's 10.8 a class, so 10.8 to 9.25 per class, is not 1/3 less tractors. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Fuzzy math
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Well fuzzy math 54 last year and 37 this year is 31.5 percent less. How dare someone come on here and complain that they thought pull was off about 1/3 (33.3 percent) on tractors when one tractor class had 5 and another 7. And these were the best tractor classes there. So you can do your fuzzy math with these 9.5 or 10.5 class averages all you want but a lot of people including me was disappointed in numbers in tractor classes. Blow smoke up someone else's rear. I was there and could tell big difference from last year, and not the only one. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Jdpuller17
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The LPS class was a state hook or there would have been 10-15 in the class. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Jdpuller17
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State Fait board needs to book more classes! |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Steve Deckinger
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Funny how people hide behind there computer and bash! If you don't like the Outlaws then don't go to one of their pulls! Other than that at least put your name behind the bashing! The LPS can't be blamed for only having 5 tractors in the class! It would've been 12-15 if it was a points hook. The Nebraska State Fair hasn't been the same since it moved to GI! Get a life people! |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Got that right
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The State Fair needs to book someone else next year. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
I said most people, not most promoters first of all, but the promoter picks how many and what classes they have, we put on a pull in our hometown, if we want 3 classes, they will give us 3, if we want 10, they would give us 10. If you're going to blame the pulling organization for averaging 9 tractors per class, but not be upset that they only had 4 classes instead of 5, then you are just wanting to bash outlaws, and you have every right to speak your opinion, but facts won't matter to you clearly. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Man!
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So now let's blame the promoter for the poor turnout of vehicles. I guess all the promoters since Outlaws been down on numbers all year. I bet Nebraska State Fair couldn't tell you the differences in the classes. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
As a promoter, I was explaining how it works, no one is blaming the promoter, I personally think 37 hooks in 4 classes is a good show. I was just explaining you can't say the tractors were a 1/3 less if they didn't have as many classes as the year before, that's not being honest about the show, you have to look at it per class |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Promoter
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I, having been a promoter for over 10 years, would not want that organization back if all I got was 37 hooks in 4 classes. Would really have show running at snails pace to give loyal paying fans a 3-31/2 hour show. Just my 2 cents worth at a promoter's point of view. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
What pull do you promote? No one will sign there names on here or stay logged in to their account? I help promote the pull in Sweet Springs MO. And if it says Livin Orange posted, it's an Allis guy from sweet springs, I would love to discuss things with other pullers and promoters, there's a lot I need to learn as a promoter, puller, fan, ect... But I never know who I'm talking to because no one posts their name.
Keith |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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"most promoters would be happy with 37 hooks". That's a load of crap. What fan wants to spend their money and waste their time watching only 37 hooks? |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Posts: 158 |
Class numbers. 2016. 2017
Unlimited super. 8. 8 Super farm. 12. 14 4wd. 9. 10 Pro stock. 15. NA Light modified. 8. NA State limited pro. NA. 5 Total. 52. 37 With dropping a class and making one a state class. Should be no suprise that turnout is less. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Mathmagican
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66 Hooks in 4 classes at Sturgon, MO Saturday night. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Promoter
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I believe PPL Western had 23 in a class at Bethany Missouri Friday night if I heard right. That kind of shoots the "down numbers " theory all to hell. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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My Opinion
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The numbers are down almost everywhere..Lots of its the farm economy....I know a guy that was going to pull Outlaws this year but his check book wouldnt let him..If I had a pulling tractor it would be parked this year..9 pullers a class isnt bad.. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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I'd like to know how much it cost the fair to book the pull? I haven't seen anyone mention how much Outlaws charge the promoters. Could be a reason they went with fewer classes? Pulling organizations forget to mention that attrition will make the classes smaller as the year goes on, but they don't lower their prices any. Expecting someone to pay the same for a 20 tractor class in June as opposed to a 10 tractor class in September doesn't really add up to me. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Mathmagician
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Looks like Nebraska state fair got a god deal with their 37 hooks. South Dakota state fair 30 hooks with their 4 classes. And this has nothing to do with farm economy, look at other associations and you will see what the outlaw numbers went. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
33 hooks, but the actual numbers don't seem to matter to anyone on here, I didn't see a lot of discussion on here about the number at Wisner? That might be because Friday night at Wisner last year, 132 hooks in 10 classes, 13.2 per class. Friday night in Wisner this year, 146 hooks in 11 classes, 13.2 per class. I understand that you guys don't like the Outlaws, but you only bring up the numbers when you think they support your case, then you round the numbers down and use that to try and make a point. But when you actually look at the real numbers, its tough to support the point you are trying to make. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2017 09:09AM by LivinOrange. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Fuzzy math again
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The only one I see with the fuzzy math is doing this class average bullcrap. Wisner was down about 35 different vehicles from the year before. Period! They all hook twice and everyone could tell a difference. The biggest problem it is the Ag tractor classes that are down the most and that is what most that come to Wisner want to see. So fuzz the numbers anyway you want no one is buying it. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
I don't see how you can do it any other way than the average per class, the number of classes at each session isn't always the same each year. Also if you want to discuss the AG tractor classes, Saturday night at wisner:
2017 Limited Pros 14 Light Supers 16 Super Farms 17 2016 Limited Pros 14 Light Supers 19 Super Farms 19 So if you wanted to complain that the AG Classes were down 5 hooks from 2016 to 2017 that would be a valid complaint, and I would respect that complaint, but you cant just make up other numbers, and then not even account for the difference in what classes were at an event from one year to the next, that's being dishonest. If you have actual complaints, that is fine, but at least be honest about the numbers you are using, a per class average is the only way to discuss total hooks. If you have complaints about individual classes, then that's a different topic and those complaints may be completely valid based on the class. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Wow
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Give it up. You hand pick the three closest classes to last year and lose 5 tractors, now list the others classes that were not so close and you will find the other 30 missing vehicles. I mean by no means admit they were down 35 different vehicles at Wisner from year before. Blame the economy, weather, pullers, promoter, Roberts, George Bush it don't matter. Facts are Facts! Fuzzy Wazzy was Fuzzy wasn't he! |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Fuzzy wazzy
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Talking about fuzzy math comparing last years Friday night to this years when they hooked different classes each year. Everyone knows some classes have a lot more in them than others and to use that fuzzy comparison to make it look like both years were same is BS. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 03/02/2010 Posts: 69 |
Those are the AG classes from Saturday night, same classes, same night, because you brought up the AG classes and those are the only AG classes that pulled on Saturday night, I don't understand how anyrhing is fuzzy about that |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Pullers wife
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Say what you want and maybe I shouldn't be voicing my opinion but the t-shirt trailer has been a disappointment this year also. Not for sure why it wasn't set up at Nebraska but it has been dirty at every event. Not sure if ever been washed this year, disorganized, stuff in boxes, no ear plugs, flags and no one selling programs. Then at the events I have been to it has been facing the track instead of the crowd, not sure if workers more interested in watching pull than selling stuff or what. Nothing hanging out front for sale like in the past. Not what we have seen in the past from Carrie for sure. Done venting. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Goober
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This year seemed to be a really good year in a long time for crowd being at the pull since the old Lincoln days. How do u fault a promoter for taking a class out when the fans weren't coming out to support the pull? |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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MO
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Want numbers, should have gone to Missouri State Fair PPL pull. 8500 Limited Pro - 41 tractors. 9500 4.1 Limited Pros - 25 tractors. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Promoter
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How many classes and how many total hooks did PPL have at Missouri State Fair? |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 06/08/2011 Posts: 34 |
4 Classes and 85 hooks for PPL at Missouri State Fair. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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So
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I personally dont care to see 41 tractors in the same class...I'd rather see 3 different classes with 13-14 in each class.. |
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roll cages
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Registered: 01/27/2010 Posts: 101 |
Dad and I built a SFI cage in the spring of 1999 so we could run NTPA region III.
A huge reason that Iowa left NTPA was the SFI cage mandated by the NTPA. After many in the Outlaws built there own version of a roll cage, they eventually went to the SFI specs and many Outlaw cages were compared to ours since ours had passed NTPA inspection. Craig |
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Re: roll cages
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Registered: 09/23/2008 Posts: 632 |
I don't know and I wasn't there but my money is on Urbie Kriener. Just cause. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Same Here
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10-12 pullers per class is plenty for me....Thats why I went to the Outlaw pull at Sedalia rather than the PPL one... |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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With all due respect, outlaws is not on the same level as PPL or NTPA. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Way better
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Until this year Outlaws has been way better than NTPA or PPL out here in the Midwest. A better variety of classes with good numbers in each class. Well ran fast pull instead of the slow pace of the other two. After Jeff City had Outlaws big screen NTPA came out with one the next year , but they have no events in Missouri and maybe a couple in Iowa. PPL. We get the big screen at ever Outlaw pull. There is no comparison on how much better the pull is now in Troy compared to when it was a NTPA pull. PPL big tour is good at Wheatland but so slow nany leave before over. Western Series has no variety but smoker classes and some of them classes are about the same as everyone else has. Yes, Outlaws had a off year and some poor choices on running shows with class orders and bad numbers but still the best for spending your pulling buck to watch a pull. I and most are worried about next year as never seen a association go backwards as they have in one year. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Take a bucket list trip to Bowling Green next year and then get back with me about that statement. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Really
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When did they move Bowling Green to the Midwest. Oh, maybe you are talking about Bowling Green, MO. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
He stated Outlaws was the best for spending your pulling buck to watch a pull. They have earned their accolades over the years. If we're talking about bang for the pulling buck, its hard to beat the world's largest pull. No disrespect to Outlaws, PPL, or anyone else. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Ryan
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The reason the trailer wasn't set up because we were short on help for the pull and my daughter ran the laser and the we are always looking for help so state your name may be you could help run it. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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300' Puller
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Outlaw Pulling - #'s for Outlaws have always been important over the years. Doug made it a point every year multiple times a year to point out their high numbers of vehicles and averages in every glass for almost every year he was president. That has been OUTLAWS biggest selling point for all their events. I find it funny how now Outlaws have several events that are off on numbers this year and all of a sudden those numbers in each class don't mean much or everyone is trying to twist them to looking better then they actually were. Then there is the excuses for why the numbers were higher or lower. Maybe it was class counts, wrong classes offered, breakage, or wrong night of the week. For the past I don't know. 15 years Outlaws have had no problems with getting good class averages. The only numbers they have struggled with is financial numbers. This year they started taking steps to improving those numbers and now the class numbers drop off. There are all sorts of reasons for the drop. The Ag industry was hurt this year by low prices and will continue to be hurt by low prices going forward. PPL Western series has taken more of a strong hold in the region. Several pullers from down in MIssouri didn't travel as much with them as in the past few summers. The number of total events that are needed to win a points championship in Outlwas contributes to numbers. The more the number of hooks needed to win adds increases not only in parts, but also fuel, food and lodging through out the summer. Anyone who wants to get on here and argue numbers needs to think about what all goes into get each number that makes your events each year. What is that cost? The TEXAS pullers that have supported the Outlaws for more then I don't know twenty + years probably have one of the highest average cost of travel, parts, and time spent trying to make every hook to try an win a championship. don't know that or anyone ever thinks about what it cost for a puller to show up at each event each and every week. That cost varies for everyone, but figure out that number for each vehicle and all your perspective on numbers at each event will change as well. Good strong regional organizations that don't require much travel could be the key to good numbers going forward in all classes offered in the pulling world. When it comes to tractor pulling, numbers can be read in so many different ways. There is the financial side of things that cause so many issues for both organizations, promoters and pullers. There is the vehicle counts in each class that will lead to a lot of influences of where people go to watch pulling and to participate in pulling. Promoters always want good numbers in each class or they think their pulls wont survive. Organizations think that without good #'s in their classes they can't sell pulls, Pullers want good numbers in their classes so that their classes survive and have good competition. Pullers want paid good numbers or they quite pulling or stop traveling. Promoters are being asked every year to increase their payouts to attract the better numbers. Fans are in turn being asked to pay more at the gates in order to watch some of our great events. They in turn want more in return for the amount that they are paying to watch pulling. Then there is the organizations like PPL, NTPA and Outlaws that can't get enough help even with offering a wage to help put on the events, so that everyone can come back here and voice their 2 cents about what they hate about each organization or event. Guessing it all comes back to numbers. My advice to all find me a good model of any business or event that worries about numbers like we in the pulling world. You don't here McDonald's advertising how many hamburgers they sell every day or Chick fl A adverting how many chicken sandwiches they sell every day either. Does Mcdonalds and Chick fl A have the best burger or chicken sandwich you ever had? Doubtful. IF you want better numbers, create a better universal system that works for pullers, promoters, and organizations nationwide and quite point at individual numbers. Your system and procedures are way more important to the success of your pulls, organizations, and events then any other number you ever focus on. Take care of your people an they will take care of you and do it better then anyone else. Keep it simple and quite making it about something it is not. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Well said
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It comes down to one thing. Leadership and Outlaws has had one of the best minds in pulling for 20 years in Doug Roberts. No matter what aspect, rules, safety, schedule, souvenir program, merchandise, scheduling, purse payout, points payout, running an event, bid screen, advertising, promoting, sponsorship, on and on. He took Outlaws from almost nothing but another small association in Missouri to one of the big three. He done it the old fashion way, hard work with lots of hours. No NTPA tradition or Lucas money. So many first that he came up with that a lot of other associations copy now, first with roll cage, splitting diesel and alcohol super stock, floating finish line, box turbos, same fuel and water. So many rules to keep competition even and cost down which led to more vehicles in each class. He couldn't do it forever and with his new family and other things he wanted to do. He just thinks our side the box and had the fortitude to try new things like the bracket pulling and other things. He was going to bo what was right even if it wasn't popular and that included breaking the rules. Outlaws will have to find their way again and they will. You have about 5 people now doing what Doug & Carrie have done the last 10 years. Outlaws best year was 2016 which was Dougs last year and the ones that got the letter like me knew he wasn't happy with the changes that were being made and he warned that changes needed to be made and sooner the better. Some of them were higher cost to pullers and promoters and less points fund for pullers. Rules getting influenced by sponsorships. I am looking forward to him having a tractor again and I bet after 20 years he will be back on top. Outlaws will just have to figure it all out and with good devoted members I look for them bounce back. It might take a year or two but don't count Outlaws out. How many times we heard that in the past. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Corrector, to; well said
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I agree with everything you stated EXCEPT, roll cage!
Outlaws were NOT first with the rollcage ! Matter of FACT, the reason the ITPA left NTPA was because of the rollcage mandate! Then, a year later, glory be, Outlaws decided they needed a rollcage as well. But none of those silly SFI ones, no sir, our members can just build their own. After seeing what a few of their members came up with, well, now, maybe we ought to use the SFI specs. So, Outlaws trailed NTPA quite a bit on the rollcage issue. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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corrector
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You are not right on that. I built a lot of roll cages for tractors in Iowa and remember Doug coming up here and talking to us at the ITPA banquet. He was the first to build a roll cage and showed up at Tomah in 1997 the day after the Randy Rose accident with a roll cage on his new tractor. Everyone was looking at that tractor. He told us that because these tractors and new modern sleds were going so fast it was time for roll cages plus he had about turned his over twice. Later that summer he was going to cut his roll cage back off because it cost him 200 lbs. of front end weight. He talked to Larry Richwine and Dave Schreier and half way through that summer that gave everyone 200 lbs. weight and made the class 8000 lbs so he left it on. Everyone else in the class just added weight or went to 10 ply tires and no one put on a roll cage. So in 1998 he told us he was not going to make the same mistake as NTPA did and if you put on a roll cage you then get the 200 lbs. In 1998 with that incentive at least 30 tractors added a roll cage in ITPA and Outlaws. NTPA had not come up with SFI specs yet. Roll cages were then mandatory in Outlaws in 1999 and the 1999 souvenir program show tractors with roll cages from the 1998 season. I think it was 1999 or 2000 before roll cages were mandatory in NTPA. I think this was brought in about the same time as component tractor rules. Outlaws had over 50 tractors with roll cages by then. ITPA didnt leave NTPA over the roll cage rule as the vote was almost unanimous and we had lots of truck classes that were not effected by this rule. Outlaws did have to eventually switch to the SFI spec roll cage for insurance reasons. I do remember a NTPA member showing up at an Outlaw pull with NTPA SFI roll cage sticker on it and it could not hook because roll cage was made out of square tubing. Outlaws roll cage rules were 2 bar 1 1/2 inch .095 chromoly steel tubing or 2 inch .125 steel tubing. I think the next year NTPA changed their rule to round tubing. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Randy Rose accident was 1997 Tomah. Dave Walsh accident 1998 Ft Recovery. In 1999, cages were mandatory in NTPA. Whoever came up with the idea has saved a number of pullers from injury or worse since the turn of the century. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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The way I remember it itpa left all because of the roll cage. Trucks were not in favor of leaving and in fact are the ones who brought ntpa back to Iowa. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Iowa puller
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ITPA was a charter member of NTPA but going backwards with less and less tractors and trucks, losing pulls. When we had a NTPA regional pull we had better numbers. Dennis was looking at different options and one was Tom McConnel and ATPA offered us lots of money to join up with them. Doug Roberts came to the meeting representing Outlaws and said he couldn't offer us any money but he could help us with better numbers. Might take a year or two but with better numbers and different trucks and tractors this area hasn't seen the promoters will draw better crowds and then we can raise purses and get better events. I think the vote was like 65 for Outlaws, 5 for NTPA and 1 for ATPA. The rest is history and the best move ITPA ever made. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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300' Puller
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The only negative to that vote, was it cost ITPA it's identity. Lost all their state hooks and members over the years. One could argue both ways as to whether that was a great move or not by Dennis back in the day. Yea, all the pulls got bigger, but Outlaws also eventually took all the pulls from ITPA to grow itself. The majority of the Outlaw hooks still to this day were old ITPA hooks. ITPA could easily stand on its own pretty fast, if they wanted to with the right direction and leadership once again. The base is still there. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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I agree
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I agree and Doug told them they need to keep their identity and they can co-sanction any events the choose with OTTPA. They still have a banquet every year. There is some talk of them going back on there own they way Outlaws is going backwards this year. They probably could make that work. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Questions for "Remember"
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So, if Outlaws has built up pulling in western Iowa,,,,
How was the crowd and vehicle count at the Hinton event? How about the Onawa event? Carroll, Nebraska? Adel? Boone? Council Bluffs? |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Remember
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Yea I remember and I think it was a White tractor. Ugliest roll cage I ever saw. Heard it was made out of square aluminum tubing. Can't remember who owned it. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Numbers
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Is Outlaws going to have better numbers at the State Fair this year. We are plan a Labor Day weekend at the fair and some of us want to go to the pull. |
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Re: Nebraska State Fair
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Registered: 01/29/2010 Posts: 58 |
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