Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 23, 2018 02:31AM
This problem is the biggest thing hurting the sport of pulling and why numbers a dwindling away pulling is probably the sport with the biggest investment and the smallest return which I know it's a hobby or for fun etc. and not to make money but I'm saying as compared to racing or whatever where initial input is usually lower and payouts for winning or placing are typically better. Technology and dyno's are great but in return it creates a vicious cycle of spending money for the latest and greatest fuel pumps, turbo's, cylinder heads, manifolds, etc. to even be competitive in return which more horse power usually means more breakage and money spent too, and to a few people money is no object and that's great more power to you but to the more common blue collar folks like myself included we do have budgets to abide by in life, I can think of several tractors that just get pulled a few times a year locally or just sitting in sheds around here full time for this reason. Just look at most regional shows numbers keep dropping in the big tractor classes and for that reason most promoters are adding more light mod or truck classes etc. to replace them it's a shame really. Being in the light pro class currently I do not think a component chassis is needed in this class or limited pro either and if it went that way I'd sell my tractor, if I'm going to go component I'd do a super stock tractor of some sort. I don't really have a good answer as to how to solve this problem we surely don't need any more classes and most don't want to go backwards in horse power so what do you do, I guess other than concentrate on the classes we have now and try to make them better however that may be, something needs to change or numbers will continue to drop off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:32AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 23, 2018 02:55AM
Maybe the next question is , how do promoters and local pulls get the big money to pay bigger purse's?Most local pulls already get sponsors, so where does the extra come from?


David Runkle class rep for Badger State LLSS class. 815-821-4686



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:33AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 23, 2018 06:13AM
Louisville just paid out a whopping 10 percent of the gross profit to the pullers. But, the pullers let it happen so why should they change? If pullers want more money, then they need to step up and ask for it. Watch a guy and his $200,000 tractor get 3rd at Tomah and basically get his entry fee back and a gas card or a microwave that were donated in the first place?! The only ones who can change it are the pullers. It amazes me that guys get on here and bitch about everything related to pulling, but never say a thing about the absurdly low payouts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:33AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 23, 2018 07:03AM
Now are class gets 2000 for each pull with 340 for first and pays down to 8th place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:33AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 01:45PM
Tri state pullers pays more than that to win there super pro class
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 02:18PM
Yes they do but omly pay back 5 places and doesnt add up to 2000 total for the class
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 10:40PM
The way I have always looked at it , was as long as it paid for the fuel in the truck and paid back the entry fee for the year I was good. Going to see my extended family was priceless


David Runkle class rep for Badger State LLSS class. 815-821-4686



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2018 01:36AM by David Runkle(earls dream).
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 01:30AM
I agree with Dave, A good night the tractor drive back up on the trailer. A great night you cover you cost to get the pull and back plus enter fee. A super great night you can buy an hamburger.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 01:38AM
Good luck Tom on your interview with Jason Shultz tommorow night
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 01:47AM
Thanks Dave. I hope to meet you at the pull May 12 /
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 23, 2018 10:57AM
Quote
Grubby
Louisville just paid out a whopping 10 percent of the gross profit to the pullers. But, the pullers let it happen so why should they change? If pullers want more money, then they need to step up and ask for it. Watch a guy and his $200,000 tractor get 3rd at Tomah and basically get his entry fee back and a gas card or a microwave that were donated in the first place?! The only ones who can change it are the pullers. It amazes me that guys get on here and bitch about everything related to pulling, but never say a thing about the absurdly low payouts.

How do you know they paid out 10 percent of the profit?
How do you know what the profit was?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:33AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 23, 2018 03:20PM
Actually, I was off on my math. The website says they get 75,000 fans at $35 a pop. That a cool $2,625,000. Add in merchandise, concessions, live streaming, etc. And it's probably around $3,000,000 in gross profit. The same website says the payout is over $200,000. So it's actually closer to 5 percent for the pullers. That leaves an awful lot left to put on the pull.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:35AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 23, 2018 03:27PM
Quote
Grubby
Actually, I was off on my math. The website says they get 75,000 fans at $35 a pop. That a cool $2,625,000. Add in merchandise, concessions, live streaming, etc. And it's probably around $3,000,000 in gross profit. The same website says the payout is over $200,000. So it's actually closer to 5 percent for the pullers. That leaves an awful lot left to put on the pull.

Do you have a link to that website that you can share?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:34AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 03:40AM
It's the NFMS website, It's all in the tractor pulling section. And I said gross profit, not net. I understand it costs money to put on a tractor pull, but it doesn't take 2 million.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:34AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 04:23AM
[farmmachineryshow.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:34AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 23, 2018 03:57PM
The $3,000,000 would be gross receipts, not profit. You need to subtract the cost to rent Freedom Hall and Broadbent, which I’m sure is substantial, plus workers for the building. All that dirt doesn’t get moved in and out for free either. Sled rental, smoke machine...

I have no idea if or how much profit they make, but I doubt it is anywhere close to your numbers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:35AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 04:30AM
I understand that they have to pay to put on the pull. I also don't believe that it costs anywhere close to 2 million dollars to do it. If you think it's fair that the pullers get $200,000 out of the whole pie, then good for you. I tend to have a problem when one tractor costs more than the entire payout. Either way it won't change until the pullers do something about it. Just wanted to let people see how much money this pull generates compared to how much is actually going back to the pullers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:36AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 04:34AM
Grubby why do always think you are the only guy to figure this stuff out. You don't really believe that the pullers and fans can't multiply the number of fans by the ticket prices and come up with the same thing. Pulling is so lucky to have you doing the thinking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:35AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 02:05AM
Quote
Grubby
Actually, I was off on my math. The website says they get 75,000 fans at $35 a pop. That a cool $2,625,000. Add in merchandise, concessions, live streaming, etc. And it's probably around $3,000,000 in gross profit. The same website says the payout is over $200,000. So it's actually closer to 5 percent for the pullers. That leaves an awful lot left to put on the pull.

That is not profit, that's income.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:36AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 04:37AM
This is just one pull. I was hoping for more discussion on summer pulls ? Your fairs, local pulling events. Not everyone runs grand national events.


David Runkle class rep for Badger State LLSS class. 815-821-4686



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2018 10:35AM by Jake Morgan.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 11:10AM
I promote our county fair pull. Certainly nothing even close to an NTPA level pull, but not bad. We generally will have a gate somewhere in the neighborhood of $7,000. Maybe make $1,000 on beer sales. Payout to pullers is $4,000, sled rental $1,500-$1,700, depending on sled. So maybe $1,500 left to pay lights, water, toilets, etc. Sponsor money gets thrown into the pot to pay expenses for the whole fair. Not every night at the fair makes money, so the extra gets swallowed subsidizing other shows. Just the way it is at lots of smaller fairs and festivals.
Sponsor money is tough to get lately. The obvious places, ag supply and equipment dealers, aren't as willing to write checks as they were a few years ago, and they have people coming through the door every day wanting money for one cause or another.
I pull as well, and knew when I got into it that it would be a money loser. I pull at the level I can afford, and hope to pay the fuel bill with what I might win. Some people have boats that they spend a lot more money on than I do my tractor. Be nice to have more prize money, but everybody knows when they build a vehicle what the payout situation is. If you can't afford to do it, then don't. To me, it's really that simple.
Just my opinion, and probably worth what you paid for it.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 24, 2018 12:37PM
The best way to make a million dollars pulling is start with two million.Back in the 60s when 300H.P.was a lot and one hemi in a modified was extreme it paid about what it does now.I made $500 at a local fair pull with a 150H.P.1206 and thought I could retire of course that was 50 years ago and I am still pulling a diesel pickup for $300 to win.The thing I like is it still is fun for me.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 02:01AM
I can tell you first hand that the math is off on this. Now let's talk expense first, insurance for the event must be huge. You also forgot advertising expense, have you had experience in that arena? It is very expensive to reach the masses. Social media campaigns, Internet,print, and possibly TV and radio. Then to pull this you off you need people and they are not free. What are they going to pull on so you need to build a track and rent equipment to move tractors, more insurance,fuel,and people needed for that. What about the facility rent for 12-14 days and clean up. Then to think they keep the profits on beer and food sales. Do you think security guards, accountants, lawyers, advertising and marketing firms work for free. I have been part of large shows enough to know all concessions most likely are not part of the deal. Is there money left at the end of it all, sure. Think about the whole picture first, doesn't seem like all pure profit to me.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 02:18AM
I love demo derby. Go to the junkyard buy your $100 car. Win the derby and get 10x the return on your investment. You don't even have to work on it when you get home, just haul it to a scrap yard and get your $100 back. 100% profit if the car had some gas in it from the junkyard. Tractor pulling sure is a stupid sport when you compare it. Isn't it ? Just saying.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 02:20AM
How do we get the big sponsors like Nascar? NTPA has caseih on board. But are ag vendors , they're only so big. What will it take to get other non ag sponsorship too get the big pay outs. Kinda tired of hearing corn and bean prices down. We need others
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 03:32AM
IT'S A FRIGGINNN HOBBY SHOUT THE HELL UP AND ENJOY, ---OR STAY HOME BE SILENT DON'T BOTHER OTHERS THAT CHOOSE TO PLAY,LIFE COSTS MONEY,PULL UP YOUR BRITCHES AND STOP BITCHI'N !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 05:38AM
To plum Krazy: I know this is a hobby, but this is just conversation. Then no one should complain about purse's and parts begin to expensive. Just thinking outside the box
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 08:13AM
People like Plum Crazy are the ones who wreck this site. Stupid comments tossed into a nice conversation. This is such a joke, you have no idea who I am and what I do big shot. I pissed more money away in pulling than you have ever made. We all love pulling but a person has his or her limits.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 01:45PM
Tractor pulling is ONLY a hobby and can never be more? Is that what you are saying Plumcrazy? Wouldnt it be cool if it was worth more? Like drag racing or Nascar and such so a guy could go at it professionally? Lots of other motor sports are , I would love it if it was cuz thats what I would do for a living
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 03:34AM
I personally feel the big sponsors and payouts could have a negative effect as well for the sport, there is a lot of discussion about money in certain classes getting out of hand these days, if the payouts were larger, competitors would spend more to try to stay on top then they do now. And with spending more, the parts would become even more expensive than they are now, where will the limit ever be? I pull a profarm, cause its what i can somewhat afford, there are times my tractor has to sit, because i can't afford to fix it or update it, it hurts like hell to park it because its always been my favorite thing in the world, besides my family, but in the end, its a hobby. i'll always try to be on the track, but the more expensive parts get, the more often i won't be able to. Big payouts, i feel, would increase the price of parts, which is already a little nuts if you ask me. I don't want to see pulling become like nascar, where it becomes a big business to most of the people involved. just my thoughts. this was a nice discussion to read through
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 25, 2018 05:10AM
Quote
David Runkle(earls dream)
How do we get the big sponsors like Nascar? NTPA has caseih on board. But are ag vendors , they're only so big. What will it take to get other non ag sponsorship too get the big pay outs. Kinda tired of hearing corn and bean prices down. We need others

How many pullers do you know that can afford to field a Nascar team for a year?

Do all Nascar series have the big sponsorship's, or is it only the premier series like the cup cars and trucks?
Have you ever seen a Nascar 4 cyl. mini stock race? they do have them.
They also have Pro Sock, late model stock and touring.
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 26, 2018 05:48AM
Nice conversation folks! My 2 cents in this is this.....As a newbie into the seat of pulling this year (we have followed and supported pulling for close to forty years) we have watched in awe of all of the accomplishments you guys and gals have made through the years. Myself, I have raced cars, bikes, snowmobiles, pulled garden tractors and farm stock tractors and never made money. Looking in from the outside I realize local events are tough to pay out big dollars especially when the gate charges $10.00 - $20.00 a seat and at best maybe 1000-2000 people in the stands. Now lets take Bowling Green for example seeing I have attended that venue for 20 years as a spectator. Weekend pass not including camping is $100.00 and i'm not sure on exact attendance but I have a 20,000 people figure in my head. Session seats are around 20 bucks, very affordable to the fans too I must say. Basic math using these figures comes up to around $2,000,000.00 (may be a little extreme but lets use it for discussion) 26 classes throughout the weekend hook, I have seen 600 hooks or better on certain weekends over the years. If they gave every puller $1000.00 they paid out $600,000.00 leaving $1.400,000.00 on the table right? Now I do realize they have to pay for all the things mentioned in this thread earlier and in a event such as this i'm sure it's a big number lord knows they do a great job. But lets not forget the money generated on the fan side of it such as the food, shirt/goods, drinks and camping out back. In no way am I bitching but want to make a point.
My wife loves the sport of "Barrel Racing" on the pro rodeo circuit PRCA, has anyone seen what kind of payouts are involved with that? The earnings some of the cowboys and cowgirls have yearly are impressive. They are unreal and although them folks have investments i'm sure but don't hold a candle to what some of our pullers here shell out. There membership fee's are no more than we pay here or PPL, those of us who belong to both are paying more.....food for discussion.
Growing our sport will do nothing but help our cause i'm sure, the more gate sales will be healthy. Our market of fan base will not support high dollar ticket prices as most of you know so we need numbers of people. Thoughts?
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Re: Pull Payout vs. Puller Investment February 26, 2018 10:48AM
so to the nay sayers,truth hurts ?????????????????????? it is a hobby,-- true statement,-- you won't make money,-- true statement !!!!!!!!!!! Accept reality. I ruin the site,no,-- all you babies do.Nothing wrong with dreams and thinking outside the box, but at the end of the day real world facts dictate the outcome.
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