07:33:01pm, Saturday, May 04, 2024
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Guys riding dirty
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Dansville
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Heard some guys that are always on top got caught ridin dirty today |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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?
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What happened |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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DocGooden
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One of the Audet tractors got dropped from 1st to last with a failed fuel inspection. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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I heard all the tractors passed before hand on one test, then they tested the top three after the pull with the Styrofoam cup a total different test then before is this true? Seems fishy why not the same test twice? How can they tell a competitor there good to go on one test then pull another after? Test them with the cup first "if that's the rule" so they can either change fuel or go home. The fuel ate though a cup "I assume" who cares sounds like some of the esp boys don't want any competition with only 14 tractors in the class yesterday you would think they would want someone pulling with them who could go out and run competitive on either national circuit. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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holy cow
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I just don't get why they cheat. They know the rules and know at some point they will get caught. The Audet tractor runs real well and I doubt a little spiked fuel helps give it that much of an edge. Now they are labeled as cheaters forever and rightfully so. They should be out for a year. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Not for nothing
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Not for nothing but there is nothing in a rule book about a styrofoam cup test. Every one was told the only test being used was dielectric. The only way to stop someone from using hot fuel is to have a spec fuel. I f the competition director wanted a different test for the top 3 he should have pulled samples and sent them to PPL or a lab if he’s that worried about it |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Registered: 01/27/2009 Posts: 48 |
The Nat Red tractor have them same problem? |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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If there isn't sufficient means to test fuel accurately then the solution should be that all competitors are required to buy and use fuel supplied by the organization. Fill up while you weigh on the scales.
The cup test is just ridiculous. |
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"The Cup Test"
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
Good Lord, You can go anywhere and get a Styrofoam coffee cup. How hard is it to test your own fuel before you go to a Tractor Pull ??? Besides that, who in there right mind wants to breath the toxic fumes produced from burning all this crap in the Diesel fuel. Anyone against the Styrofoam cup test must lead you to believe that they want to run it also ?? JMO Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2018 11:42AM by PULLMX. |
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Re: "The Cup Test"
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TRIGGERED AGAIN
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I understand about the fumes but if they didn't come to smell diesel smoke they came to watch the show from what I heard is that they were never told about the cup test and its not in the PPL rule book so are we just making are rules up as we go or what it just sounds like Bull S hit |
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Re: "The Cup Test"
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
Not about the Diesel smell, I grew up smelling diesel smoke from our old farm tractors, [Before tractors had cabs]. This is about the additives! There is chemicals that when they go through a internal combustion engine, will cause cancer, lung problems and even death !! If i am a spectator i don't know who is running what crap in the fuel !! |
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Re: "The Cup Test"
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East coast
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Will the v.p. Diesel pass a cup test ? Is it any good ? Anyone using it ?any one try it ?? |
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Re: "The Cup Test"
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Registered: 12/31/2016 Posts: 50 |
We're gonna find out here real soon........ |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Anonymous User
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Yea Nuts for even trying, they were all told at drivers meeting that= top 3 (may) get re- tested with foam cup test? all had plenty of time to test there own fuels after meeting and maybe doctor it to pass maybe ... or did do there own test and knew it failed and chose to run with failing fuel and chance getting re-tested.(easy as that) sorry to see this happen ,the more tractors the better... not sure why this foam cup test is being done with die. test also, weeks ago i think it happened at a PA track, tech also did this test and DQ'd failers also? |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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That's as bad as a crooked stealing builder!!! They are making this sport not fun anymore!!! |
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Illegal fuel DQ
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Awesomely
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I wanted to say awesome job to Empire State pullers for sticking to there rules on fuel. Tyler Audet with pure bread red and Elwood Sickler with naturally red were dq’d for illegal fuel in the super farm class at the PPL pull in Dansville NY. I hope they keep doing a great job and other organizations will do they same thing. |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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AAA
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Just the beginning half the top guys have over 3 exhaust wheels |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Agreed
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Agreed the cup test is a joke. When on road fuel takin from the pump at the local fuel stop can be put into a cup an eats thru the cup u can't use the cup as an official test anymore. Bother tractors passed the dielectric test which is a more official more effective test that's all that matters cup test is a joke needs to be thrown out |
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Turbo wheel
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Another puller
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What do you mean over 3in exhaust wheel? Where are they buying this setup? Why isn't it being caught. |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Wrong
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Just read page 17 paragraph 9 and 10 of the PPL rule book. It does not list styrofoam cup as a test for fuel. I’m all about punishing those who run illegally but the fuel from both tractors passed a dielectric test. I’ve seen road fuel in Pennsylvania go through a styrofoam cup. If ESP wants to do more testing on the fuel act like a professional organization and send the samples to PPL or a lab. What a joke. Since when is a foam cup a piece of scientific testing equipment? |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Registered: 09/23/2008 Posts: 632 |
well curiosity beat this ol redneck in the head today, went to the farm pump and tried my luck just glad I don't mind diesel on my hands because fuel straight from my farm tank eat Styrofoam like it was a starving child but what do I know. |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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LEWIS
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That highly compressed diesle coming from in under the Smokey Mountains dont count lol |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Bill Nye
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Sounds likes their experimental setup was lacking a control setup. Better leave the science to the scientists. |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Was a sample taken and sent to PPL or any lab ? What type of test was done pre-hook ? Was it the cup test ? |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
A foam cup is just that. It's foam and a cheap foam cup might be a lot thinner and out of poor grade material vs. another cup. Was a foam cup test done on any other tractors ? If so what was that result ? I quit the farm classes a few years ago because of all the BS, poor rules and poor or no rule enforcement. I thought about going SF for sometime but I guess the BS is the same. I'll save my money and watch the circus from the bleachers. I've known Elwood for a long time and this really bugs me, especially if it's not a factual test and his fuel was ok in the end. I would think a PPL sanctioned event would be very professional with their testing. I guess that's not true and this will hurt EPS, PPl as well as the pullers and their fans. If they took a sample and it comes back legal then a major public apology is in order. |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Facts
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Please know all the facts before saying they were legal. Everyone was told at the drivers meeting about this. A die electric test was done before as a courtesy to make sure all the fuel passes the die electric test. If you wanted a foam cup ask they will give you one. The fuel only had to stay in the cup for 5 minutes. Guys the fuel fell threw the bottom of the cup as it was poured in. Another fact is when Audet’s were told to stay for further investigation of the fuel they loaded up and left within 10 minutes. Please be advised that from the time the class ended till Audet’s left the pulling grounds was 35 minutes. They are lucky the fuel wasn’t sent out. They would be kicked out for over a year. Sicklers tractor stayed the whole time but was still found to have illegal fuel. The very sad part and anyone that sticks up for them should be ashamed of them selves for. What chemicals are the kids breathing in the stands cheering on there favorite tractors and these guys do not care but to try make make them selves a herro or some chemicals. |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Do you know the FACTS
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Clearly some people do not know the @#$%& facts. The people like me who stick up for them are not a dick to them. From what I heard they both just dumped tons of money in it and now everyone is scared of them so don't talk if you dont know what happened they got DQ'D for a rule that is not In The PPL rule book |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Hmmm
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Seems the ESP president should have the competition director send these samples to Indiana for further testing. Oh wait the president got tired of the bs and resigned. Pretty sad that who ever is in charge is going to let some competitors names get ruined by a stupid test that doesn’t work |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Agree
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These guys are getting called cheaters when they are not. If you look in the PPL rules book which I have seen someone already did it doesn’t approve a cup test only dielectric test, which I have heard from some of the guys who run that circuit that everyone’s fuel had pass the dielectric test. Then from what I heard they were going to take the top 3 from every class and check it again with the dielectric test not the cup test. So that is what I think about it because where we pull down south we don’t do any of that cup test I think that it is just a joke that’s my opinion. |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Agreed
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Like I said cup test is a joke and an invalid test that needs thrown out. Damn shame good peoples names get run into the dirt because of idiotic test. |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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Just a Joke
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I know good guys now will be called cheaters when they are not and everyone is going to call them that at the pulls and it started all with a test that is not in the rules |
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Re: Illegal fuel DQ
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I dont know
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I tried the same thing. I assuming there is a time limit? I used 2 minutes. Straight on or off road lasted easily. 50/50 outlaw blew right thru. Got down to 1/8 ratio and it would hold. That my friends is pretty hot. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Hot
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I had to pee in a cup once and burnt a hole right through it. That's why they call me HOT! WHOOOOO!!! |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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thinking
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"Facts", do you really think that those 2 are the only ones in SF, in fact any of the diesel classes, using juiced up fue, regardless of sanctioning body?. If that is what you think, I am sure you do not know the true facts.
The Audet's, when I met them personally for the first time, three years ago, in a pleasant personal conversation in the pits, told me that the tech people and competitors were after them for supposedly cheating simply because of one suppliers decal that is on the tractors. That is what I call real BS. The rules are the rules and everyone, including sanctioning body and their tech officials, need to abide by their current written rules. And do you not think there are quality differences from one type of styrofoam cup to another? Just ask my borther in law who use to manufacture them. These 2 pullers are not guilty until proven otherwise by a bona fide dielectirc test. But, remember, they are not always consistent, at least in the past, either. Look at all the problems NTPA had within the past five years, administering the test, with consistent results. Perhaps that is (part of) the same problem existing now in this scenario. |
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Re: PLEASE READ
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Registered: 10/06/2008 Posts: 57 |
I would like to start out by saying thank you to the Everman family and Union hose company for putting together one of the best tracks seen in the state of New York in some time. I would also like to extend a thank you to the Empire state pullers and the tech officials for doing an excellent job in running a timely show with good sled settings and efficiently running equipment down the track. With regard to a fuel test done and the top 2 tractors failing a post test is accurate. I would like to publicly state some facts.
1. PPl rules state a dielectric test to read 30 to 100 with a fuel meter calibrated to zero in cyclohexane or jet A fuel used by ppl is some instances. 2. Cetane is a indicator of diesel fuels ignition speed. 3. Per IUPAC Today cetane is referred to as hexadecane. 4. Just because the label or the manufacture calls the product "cetane" it can have varying chemical compounds of formulas to modify, enhance or accelerate the combustion rate a fuel . 5. PPL rule book states under section "fuels & fluids " the "acceptable fuels are gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol and methanol. No oxygen carriers or combustion accelerators permitted". If ppl or any group chose to enforce that rule as written then every tractor puller who puts any additive in any fuel that enhances or accelerates its combustion would be in violation. That is and would not be practical. 6. Foam cup test is an insufficient means of detecting what is in a competitors fuel. A well respected ss tractor builder in MO sells a fuel that is used by competitors across the country as well as NY. This fuel base is capable of allowing nitro and nitro-methane to stay in a foam cup and pass dielectric fuel reading. The ppl rule book clearly states those fuels or burn traces of those fuels are not allowed. The foam cup test also fails a product described by the manufacturer as a lubricant and cetane number improver that a large pump, turbo and injector builder recommends use of to facilitate extending the life of expensive turbos, pumps and injectors. 7. Myself, our customers & the Audet family are all on board for a level playing field of competition and encourage organizations to come up with a valid means of measuring and enforcing fuel and water used in internal combustion engines. Until there is more delineation as to the guidelines of fuels, testing methods and procedures I stand with our customers and the Audet family on protesting the top 2 tractors disqualification. 8.I also am disappointed in the select few people that bring the integrity of PPl , ESP and it members/affiliates down with ignorant statements of "heresay and speculation" Fire away folks I cant wait to see replys !! Ross Castner 315-730-4469 |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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On and on it goes.....
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Why do we do this every year? Why not just let any fuel mix go? Why does there have to be a bunch of rules on this? If there are no fuel rules then everyone would be on a level playing to field to come up with the best mix they can. It's either that, or give everyone the same fuel out of the same tank when they get to the pull. These fuel tests are unreliable and silly. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
So what happens when guys start running 70% Nitro-methane and 30% Diesel? Is that OK? I'm not going to be anywhere near a track when those guys run down the track! I also don't think any insurance company would touch that event with a 1000 ft pole.
I'm fine with supplying fuel and water at an event, but how do we guarantee that guys don't doctor the supplied fuel? Oh, that's right, we'd still have to test the fuel after the class. There are extremely valid reasons to have fuel tests. I also think that organizations should have more than just one test procedure, with a lab analysis having the final say. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
There are rules in place. The problem is that nobody enforces the punishment .Badger State is a year and tens days for tractor and driver with a 5000 dollar reinstatement fee. Second offense is 10000 reinstatement fee and third is a ban for life.If there was more of this guys would think twice or go try else where. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2018 08:32AM by David Runkle(earls dream). |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Yeah!!!
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Yeahhhh do what that guy says^^^^ then when there is one tractor in every class because who the he11 wants to do that. we can all just go watch point fingers at him while yelling CHEATER!!!! |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 267 |
VP racing already has program for this |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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TRIGGERED
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They didn't cheat they didn't go by the rules so what about Tyler and Elwood they are getting called cheaters when they are not. Plus this thing had got way out of hand it should of just stayed within the people who had the problem |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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LEWIS
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Dave was dead on no call for a smart ASS play by the rules Mr YEA or keep your ass seated in the stands inforce the rules a few times the rest will take care of itself cheating is steeling from everyone in the class all the way to the fans in the stands any form of knowingly cheating should be out for one year including adding 5 gallon of fuel which is 50 pound after crossing the scales intentional or any additional weight without making it known and aproved by an oficial |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Jake, you mean you don't want to be around a bomb when it goes off? lol 
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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pull fan
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I am pretty sure nhra events are insured and they run nitromethane |
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I'm a little confused on the ESP dq
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Did ESP dq 2 tractors simply on a Styrofoam cup test, or did ESP have a test kit that is calibrated and test officials that are certificated? Are there Styrofoam cup standards? What if I buy my Dart Styrofoam cup from Walmart and the Acme test kit has a Styrofoam cup that is a Dixie brand, will the test still be the same. Seems like it's a real stretch to use something so subjective as a Styrofoam cup to conduct a test with that brings into question a pull or pullers integrity and honesty. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: I'm a little confused on the ESP dq
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Bingo
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To my understanding both tractor passed dielectric meter test before hook and failed a styrofoam cup test after that only the top 3 tractors were tested with |
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Re: I'm a little confused on the ESP dq
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Why wasn't the same meter test done post pull as was done pre-pull ? |
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Re: I'm a little confused on the ESP dq
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LEWIS
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A better question is why has there been no official come on and defend the organizations decision and straighten out these assumptions my farm fuel didnt melt through my cups from the Dollar General |
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Re: I'm a little confused on the ESP dq
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Registered: 09/23/2008 Posts: 632 |
that's where I made the mistake my Styrofoam cups were from family dollar, should have driven the other half mile and got dollar general, jeez '"who knew". |
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Re: I'm a little confused on the ESP dq
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What about the third tractor checked? |
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Re: I'm a little confused on the ESP dq
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Registered: 10/25/2010 Posts: 6 |
Biodiesel will eat through a foam cup very quickly in fact researchers are looking at ways to recycle polystyrene into biodiesel to eliminate the landfill problem. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
I am PRETTY SURE that you are right but I am also PRETTY SURE that NHRA does not allow nitromethane and diesel fuel mixed together. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Registered: 10/08/2008 Posts: 70 |
I think there would be quite a few tractors found to not be exactly legal if the rules were actually enforced. Not just the super farm class either |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
Amen, and another problem is the ones that WANT to enforce the rules will be looked at as mule holes for doing their job. At least on this forum. I am sure I am going to get another thumbs down on my response from someone, but that's ok. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Registered: 09/23/2008 Posts: 632 |
Oh my, I don't have a problem with rule enforcement but making new rules during the pull is a problem. There are fuel test procedures outlined and if they were followed and someone is found illegal; give'em the boot. Making up procedures that are not listed or even stated in a rule book is not only bad business but gets you drawn into walking stick territory. |
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Re: Guys riding dirty
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Wrangler
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All this hot fuel turns in to a hot mess in your pants driving commando ridin dirty. For gods sakes can you run pump fuel and wear underwear! |
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