Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 26, 2018 04:31PM
They tried, but it is not working. I now think the powers that be made three bad decisions with this class.
First) The idea of a light "unlimited" class may have sounded good, but the original idea was blown out of the water when Adam Bauer was able to get three hemis in the class. I think NTPA should have made a change as one more season and it would have been Adam and Doc and no one else, but the change they made really didn't gain much long term.
Second) Allowing 18-71s and screw blowers in a light class was probably not a good move.
Third) turbines should have been allowed from the beginning.

My suggestions-
1) Keep the 6000 lb weight, but limit to 2 engines with 14-71 maximum blower. Since it is a Grand National class, I feel an 8-71 limit would be too restrictive, but as far as the screws and 18-71s, while they have found a home in the 8000 Unlimited, they just haven't caught on in the light class except for a few vehicles.

2) Allow turbines. I believe with the latest supercharger technology, twin 14-71 hemis can run with 2 T-64s. Keep it a two engine max class, but allow twin turbines.

3) Cosmetic change- Just as we have light and heavy SS, change the name to Light Modified (ie- get rid of the word Unlimited). The 7,500 mod class could be known as Heavy Modified. The Unlimited class would keep it's current name and "unlimited" would be reserved for the true unlimited class. After all, we have light and heavy SS, and even an Unlimited SS as it's known in some organizations.

4) What about the few guys who have played by the rules and run either 18-71s or screw blowers in the class? I would also propose changing the rules in the 7500 GN mod class to allow twin engines with 18-71s and screws to go along with the current 3 engines w/14-71s and 4 with 8-71s. That would at least give Simons, Corzine, etc. a way to pull with their current equipment.

5) What about 3 engines with 8-71s? I just don't know if that is a good idea. Limiting to twin engines seems to be a better option imho, but with a 14-71 blower limit. Keep in mind that twin 14-71s also have the option to hook in the RN mod classes.

I'd be interested in others opinions about whether this light mod class could (or should) be saved, and what are reasonable things that would help participation.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2018 04:36PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 26, 2018 11:27PM
Right on!! Sounds good to me.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 27, 2018 12:42AM
I could not agree more about the tendency that pulling has to call a class "unlimited" as I have pointed out before there is no such class in all of pulling. Every class has limits. Of course if you are talking about how much money you can spend then that name does apply for a lot of classes.

As far as the class and the rules, they never should have allowed the !8-71s at all. The class should have been 3 Chevy type engines or 2 Hemi"s. The class should have also allowed the turbine and Alison, right now the class is just one more " cookie cutter" class. The class should have been designed to allow the state pullers to step into the class with the minimum of expenses.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 27, 2018 01:18AM
European 2.5t light modified is one of my favorite classes to watch.

Ntpa light unlimited is the complete opposite.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 27, 2018 03:14AM
I think they could run lighter still, at around 5800lb. I know the Green Monstor team in Germany run a twin Allison at 5500lb but that's a heck of a lot of work to make weight. I think performance rules similar to the European 5500lb class but run them at 5800lb. The variety is unparalleled anywhere on the planet and that is what makes it the best class anywhere around. Plus the class should be called light mod, with the 7500lb mods just called modifieds and the 8000lb mods can be unlimited.
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One other point June 27, 2018 03:26AM
Even if the suggestions were adopted, it may be too late to save the class. There will not be a class if no one wants to run it.

I would hope guys with 14-71s like Feiss, plus a few turbine guys, would be willing to run a 10-12 hook schedule. If current precommits drop back to a 14-71 limit, great. I could just as easily see Simons, Corzine, and Wayson adding 2 more and running the 8000 lb unlimited. I would enjoy seeing that though it would also be nice for a lighter class to thrive.

Random question- Sharon Everman's tractor was originally built for the light class with the prior owner. How come she's never ran it in light unlimited even when the rest of the Evermans are at a pull like Tomah?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2018 03:35AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: One other point June 27, 2018 04:47AM
My guess is Sharon can't get that light. They have upgraded the original design twice. The Wild Hare was 2 motors inside the frame rails crank to crank when they got it and they ran it that way for a long time. However they kept hurting both motors when one came apart.(I watched that happen more than twice.) Henry then changed it to the big hemi motors stair case set up into a transfer box. Then later they placed an entire new frame under it and the motors now set opposite directions with transfer box in the middle. I doubt a low weight class was ever considered when these changes were made and it is too heavy. At least that would be my guess.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 27, 2018 09:20AM
The "performance" rules here don't really work. It's basically "unlimited" and weight kills some engine combinations.

Everybody does what he can - and then drops the hitch and then the most power wins, because it's still the fastest.
The variety already is hurting at 5500 lbs.
It kinda depends what you want. 5500 lbs is already triple V8s and twin V12s. Anything else is already hurting at 5500 lbs and would probably need less weight.

As you can see, there is a performance split in the class:
video: [youtu.be] (5500 lbs mod - last Euro Cup)


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2018 09:33AM by Sascha.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 27, 2018 05:41AM
Instead of banning 18s and screws why not just limit their overdrives? Wouldn't lose people that way.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 27, 2018 07:28AM
The main difference between now and back in the day is that back in the day, tractors easily removed engines to run in the lighter classes. They need to get back to that. That way a person can run in all three classes with the same iron.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 27, 2018 12:09PM
A suggestion I had that may not make sense to some but seems reasonable. The current Ntpa Modified tractors with 4 engines already run unlimited class all the time and can hang with them and make a bigger Unlimited class. Take the modified class and make it like the outlaws mod rules. 3 Chevy style engines or 2 Hemis or 1 aircraft style motor. That way it would open the class up to more tractors.jmo though
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 27, 2018 09:46PM
The V12s won't stand a chance vs. a twin Hemi with 14-71s, even with pretty drastic blower overdrive limits.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 27, 2018 04:34PM
Michael, why not allow three wedge head motors with 8-71's in there with your two hemi's with 14-71's? That has proven to be a pretty even match at the state/regional level.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 28, 2018 01:29AM
Logan, there are several things they could try. I would just say only one guy ran 3 with 8-71s when three was allowed (Doc). I don't foresee many people building an ultra light triple 8-71 tractor but if that was an option we would find out. I think we can agree the current rules are not getting many pullers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2018 01:30AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 28, 2018 02:15AM
I suggest leaving the class rules as is and let competitors build to the rules. Constantly changing the rules will kill the class. If they limit it to 14's you oust ALL current tractors in the class and it's over.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 29, 2018 12:34AM
I don't disagree, except the problem is only 5 (or maybe 6 if Richardson gets the one he precommitted done) have built in excess of 14-71s. 5 or 6 is not enough to have a consistent class. Allowing twin 18-71s and screws to run in the 7500 mod class would at least give them a place to hook.

This is not the same issue the Open SS class has. There are more than enough for a class as long as the 2 orgs don't schedule over each other.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 29, 2018 02:36AM
I am leaning toward allowing the guys that have the bigger blowers to continue to run them but with overdrive restrictions. That way these competitors have not wasted their money on blowers that they might not be able to sell (18-71) and it could be a way to make the 14-71 tractors competitive again. This will also allow the 14-71 tractors to continue to cross over to other mod classes. I also think we should consider allowing three engines with certain head and blower restrictions. As for the Turbines I think the powers that be dont want them for one reason or another but I wouldn't be opposed to allowing them if a good HP combination would work for them. I have no idea what that combination of engines might be. The Allison tractor that has run the class was very strong and other than having issues with weight seemed to have enough power to be competitive so I don't see an issue needing changed there.

Allowing the three engine combination and Turbines might help with adding more interest in both competitors and fans as a lot of people have talked about the (cookie cutter ) look of the class.

Todd Feiss AKA S'no Farmer
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 29, 2018 04:35AM
Couldn't agree more Todd. 3 wedge heads with 871's and twin t64's would work well in that class and bring some much needed variety.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class June 30, 2018 02:08AM
Would it work to allow those with two 18-71s in the light to add a third engine with 8-71 for the mod?
I talked to guy here who runs 18s and 14s on minis and he said the difference is about 300 hp.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
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light class June 30, 2018 07:35AM
i think the rules are fine the way they are we were competitive with 14`s the only thing hurts the class for us was the travel thepurse didnt even cover fuel and tolls
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Re: light class July 01, 2018 08:21AM
Refresh my memory, what tractor with 14-71 blowers was running at the top of the class the last two years? I think the best any have done is Twist and shout getting a third at the Fort and Tarry winning at the Fort two years ago, if it hadn't started raining that wound likely not have happened. I know our tractors have not been running right the last two years but even if they were we would still be running for 5th through 7th and that is not what I would call competitive. If the 4-71 setup is competitive why are guys going with big blowers?

You are one hundred percent correct about the payout, even winning a lot would barely cover cost to travel.

I really like running the Lt.Unlimited class but can't justify making the change to big bowers. I will be content running RN Mod classes and getting my butt kicked lIke this weekend but at least going in I know I have a fighting chance.

S'no Farmer
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Re: light class July 01, 2018 08:08PM
Hi Todd miss all you guys and gals out there hopefully we get straightened out so we can come out and play with you next season Matt Ferry
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Re: light class July 02, 2018 02:35AM
Matt,
I have to say that the class has stepped up quite a bit in the time you guys have been away. I really believe that anyone trying to run with 14-71s will be playing catchup all summer. I know you guys run hard but facts are facts and the big blowers are working.

I really hate what all dairy farmers are going through, that has to be about the most stressful way to farm out there. Our ski seasons haven't been the best the last three years either so we are not as enthusiastic about spending money lately!☺ Hope you guys can get out there again soon, you are a great asset to the mod classes.

S'no Farmer
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Re: Bottom line July 02, 2018 05:47AM
The class began in 2012. After 6 years, there was a grand total of 5 tractors at the 2nd largest pull in the country. Botton line- the current rules are not drawing in pullers. That alone is justification for making a change.
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Re: light class July 03, 2018 04:52PM
The outlaw rules sound like a smart move. It's a good class from what I've seen.
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class July 03, 2018 02:29PM
Why not run the class with the same rules as the outlaw organization, or state regional rules . 3 v8 wedge heads with 8-71 at 45% 2 hemis with 14-71 , 2 T64,2 Allison’s and run the weight at 6500 so you can hook the tractors up without lowering the drawbar to keep the front down . My 2 cents worth , thanks , Stan Williams
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class July 04, 2018 01:54AM
Stan, in the eyes of some powers to be and some fans, your suggestion would be too practical. But I agree, that is what is needed. I could even accept down to 6000# with that variety of engine powerplants. That certainly should spruce up interest, from pullers and spectators and promoters, in the class then.

S'no Farmer, Foolish Farmer, Joker - what are your thoughts on Stan's suggestion?
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class July 04, 2018 02:09AM
I think that these rules is the way I am leaning but would also add letting the big blowers in but with blower overdrive limits.

S'no Farmer
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Re: Suggestions to save NTPA's Light Unlimited class July 05, 2018 05:56AM
we ran triple wedge combo in new york state level against our twin hemi the triple would put 20 feet on it every time
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