02:02:02am, Saturday, May 18, 2024
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Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Spark
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When International sold out NTPA ruled it was acceptable to allow Magnum and Maxxum sheet metal on an IH chassis even though those OEM tractors never had a IH engine in them.
Same as when Allis sold to Agco, no Agco OEM tractors ever had Allis OEM Engines in them. Same can be said for numerous other brands. It was never a issue they weren't called cross dressers or any other slang name It was accepted. Now when the same rule makers pass it was ok for Component Chassis to allow engine swaps for performance reasons It's an issue. When Bret Berg Rob Russell for example updated in the late 1980's there tractors weren't called cross dressers even though they had engines that weren't ever offered in a Magnum. I haven't heard people call any of the new sheet metal Case/New Holland, McCormick diesel supers cross dressers even though they all have engines in them that aren't offered by CNH Or McCormick. Not many call Sharamek's a cross dresser even though Agco never put a defunct Allis motor in any tractor. Same scenario for Lustik, ChizekULSS, Hirts, Kuhns Trail Blazer and Everson's Sleipnir, and Many Many Limited Pro, Light Pro, Super Farm, LLSS, Hot Farm, ETC ETC all examples of tractors with diffrent engines than what was ever offered in the sheet metal they have installed. All are running a custom built engine based on a block from a defunct company that has absolutely Nothing to do with their sheet metal. Just like the so called Cross Dresser Component tractors of resent. Just My Observation And Opinion Being Shared From Greg (Spark) Nordahl |
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True Story
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Bruh
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If motors and sheet metal had to match almos every brand would be running the 8.3 Cummins |
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Re: True Story
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doubt it
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No Deere I know of ever ran 8.3 Cummins........ |
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Re: True Story
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Truck puller
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I'm not sure what the problem is with the engine not matching the hood when the rules allow billet heads and blocks. |
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Re: True Story
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Omg
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Key board puller at it's best ! So you want 10-15 of the same tractors in the class - who wants to suck hindtit ? Waste money on something that will break ? |
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Re: True Story
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Doug Borth
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Keyboard puller? OMG you just showed your ignorance by calling Greg a keyboard puller..... do a little research before you make accusations |
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Re: True Story
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Spark
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Thanks Doug
Greg "Spark" Nordahl |
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Re: True Story
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Registered: 10/27/2016 Posts: 12 |
Lots of options with Deere, 8.1, 466, and 531. |
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Re: True Story
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I seem to remember a fellow named John Lorenz who was never afraid of a John Deere and it looked like hunts weren't to afraid of the Deeres at BG last weekend |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Registered: 07/27/2017 Posts: 184 |
Lim Pro and Super Farm would basically be the only class with diversity.
Pro Stock is run by Deere and SSD is run by red. Just the way it is. I get what you are saying, but forcing these guys to switch might make it more boring. |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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LEWIS
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WHY is prostock a JD class |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Registered: 07/27/2017 Posts: 184 |
Not sure exactly why, but those big block Deere's run that class. I was watching PPL from 2017 and they had like 21 or 24 pro stocks there, and no matter the tin, all but 1 was a Deere motor and I think most were the big block. Pretty sure Moss ran a small block Deere but most are big blocks. |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
They are all big blocks because the cubic inch limits are way, way, way too high. They always have been and the chickens have come home to roost. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
Jake.... the Deere 466, or equivalent metric block is capable of reaching the cubic inch limit. I've been told, that the "power potential" of the smaller Deere block is "unknown". What they have found, rather, is the limit of those blocks as far as staying together. They just won't live past a certain level, even though, if they could be made to, they have the potential to make more power than that limit. |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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ur point is?
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Greg, I do not get what your point is. Perhaps: 'tractor deception at its best'? I know my younger brother, a former JD dealer owner would agree with that proposed "Perhaps:".
(How ironic the "Spam prevention code" starts with JD for me to post this reply.) |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Spark
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I was just thinking about all the criticism lately over what engine is in what
. And if people would have looked below the surface of the updating sheet metal rule of long ago they have been "cross dressing tractors" for a long time. But it then seemed to be accepted no questions asked. And this was all done in the name of performance, For Example people didn't want to get into making a actual Case IH engine work for a super or pro stock, No need to, The reliable engines where already available, Hypermax, Riverside, SimpsonPerformance (The easy way out) Now a days If you put a IH based engine for example in a John Deere your a "Cross Dresser" Or a Deere motor in a Massey, Even though it is done in the name of performance (same as in the past) and the tractors owners loyalty rides on the sheet metal the choose to represent. To me people just haven't looked very deep into what dirty truths and secrets the sheet metal seems to have been covering up for about the last 30 years, Many tractors have been running engines that have never been used with the sheet metal they have been using. Case took over International never using IH power in their Case IH tractors, Deutz then Agco took over Allis never using Allis power in any tractor, And CNH put a end to the Ford power plants for example. But all these types of tractors have been accepted in the pulling world with non compliant engines to sheet metal. My point is people over the years seem to have let the color of the sheet metal affect there opinion of what is accepted without looking very deep past the color. My Opinion And Point Of The "Cross Dressser Tractor topic Greg "Spark" Nordahl |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Well, I've actually complained about that in the past. Personally I wish the rules made the sheetmetal much closer relate to the tractor. I don't mind swapping a 466 in for a 414 or 436 or a 619 in for a 531 or a 474 in for a 401 but I'm not a huge fan of some of the updating and back dating of hoods. What can I say, I'm a purest. In my perfect world I'd have a list of allowable combinations for hoods and engines.
That said, none of those tractor lines have cross dressed until recently. They stayed within the family heritage lines. Sure those lines are sometimes blurry through mergers and acquisitions but they still follow the family heritage. Those lines are very easy to trace. Taking a 426 AC and putting an Agco hood on it doesn't confuse too many people. To me updating hoods is like adding breast implant on a girl... it's still a girl, it's just had some changes under the hood. The cross dressing tractors cross heritage lines. To me that's putting a dress on a man. Everyone's entitled to their opinion on this and that's mine. I honestly believe that if the rules were more restrictive it would have force guys to either be just another copycat or maybe, just maybe it would have forced guys to develop other engines instead of just dropping in easy power. Necessity is the mother of invention... Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
I've been thinking about this since the thread was started.
The NTPA's "updated sheet metal" rule, started all of this a long time ago. Brabec's took advantage with the Imposter, putting 8xxx series sheet metal on a D-21. Granted, the 8xxx series Allis Chalmers tractors were manufactured with the same 426 engine as the D-21, but the rest of the drive train was much heavier, making it less desirable for pulling. However, a D-21, with 8xxx sheet metal, allowed a puller to campaign a tractor with the appearance of the current year model on the dealer lots. The next step, as stated above was the Magnum, and then Maxxum, and beyond for the IH tractors, AGCO skins on Allis Chalmers drivetrains, and current model Deere skins on 4010, 4020, 4430, etc drivetrains. Along with other combinations in other brands. Finally, with the acceptance of component chassis, and the rules allowing "any ag engine" the lines became more and more blurred, until you have what we have today. Something to consider: this conversation for some reason, only seems to get applied to tractors. I wonder is that is because of rules, until recently, that prevented aftermarket engine blocks in the hooded tractor classes. To my knowledge, no TWD truck was ever manufactured with a BAE, or MBE engine block. To my knowledge, no Cheverolet truck was ever manufactured with a "hemi" engine. Yet, less than a week after 40+ TWD trucks competed at BG, we don't have a thread on this forum or any other I've looked at complaining about "cross dressing" trucks. Interesting. |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Here's the thread where I talked about the 2wd Truck class most recently (two days ago):
[www.pulloff.com] There is no brand loyalty in that class anymore, Zero, Zip, Nada, None! Personally I think brand loyalty is one of the most interesting parts of motorsports. Pulling does it's best to throw the interesting bits in the trash because it's "easier". Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Observation About So Called Cross Dressed Tractors
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
I stand corrected. I started reading that thread, but lost interest. |
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After reading all the posts, all I can say is this.
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Registered: 04/03/2016 Posts: 772 |
WOW! |
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