iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 08:20AM
hard to follow all of this.
Are v8 out in SS?

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 10:54AM
Just the 903 Cummins motor so Lustik's Silver Bullet still can run because it's a CAT motor.



Brent Yaron
Hooked Up Pulling Productions
hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 11:32AM
Brent the 3208 is legal because it was in a fixed frame tractor...2255 Oliver and White 2-180, not because of the manufacturee. By that same metric all of the Perkins V8s are legal as well as the 550(?) Offered in 1468 and 1568 IH machines...Open SS, not light SS.



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Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 01:32PM
If the engine came in a tractor it should be legal. Whether it is a 1960 or 2019 model tractor. That means V8, OHC, EFI, 24V, etc. should all be allowed. My opinion anyways.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 01:51PM
Lss Fan the things you mentioned would cost the already over priced dying class another 40 thousand .To many pullers are all about self no matter what class and couldnt beat CRAP if it were apples to apples

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 01:37PM
Bryan you are right. It made sense in my head because I knew the difference because of the tractors it came from. Sorry if it confused anyone.



Brent Yaron
Hooked Up Pulling Productions
hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 02:23PM
Lewis you talk about killing an already dying class, yet they just booted atleast 4 tractors from the dying class by tightening up rules. I think you would actually get more new builds if you opened the rules up.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 02:42PM
Fan there are few to build a 100 to 150 thousand dollar TOY those four over powered pay loaders killed the class Them guys has shown them selfs as being so loaded with cash a new engine to them is equel to me buying a new set of tires for my daily driver pickup .They will be back and just as strong

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 03:02PM
Everyone says that the V8s killed the class, yet what won the GN points, a 6 cylinder or V8 the last three years. The two GALOT tractors won the title in 2016 and 2017 and won a total of 9 hooks. Chizek V8s won 12 hooks. Maybe it is GALOT's I6 that destroyed the class and ran everyone off! lol

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 02:42PM
If you take an objective look at our sport, the more restrictive the rules are the higher the number of participants. Diesel Super and Open Super have less participant combined compared to classes like Light Pro (which is one of the newer classes in the sport and it already has higher numbers). The more open the rules, the more open your wallet will be.

I'm all for allowing "new" technology, but it needs to be done with great forethought and planning. I'm in favor of allowing all OEM parts like EFI, OHC, 24 valves heads, etc... because they are factory offerings, but it gets a little grey-ish when you start allowing all those things in aftermarket products (that's get expensive fast).



Jake Morgan
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Independent Pulling News



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Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 03:14PM
I would love to se some oem factory 24 valve alcohol heads from IH or the oem efi that JD puts in there 6 bottom plow tractor LOL

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 01, 2018 10:53PM
Just to clarify, I think some are missing the wording of the rule on when a V8 can be used. It has to be from an OE two wheel drive model.

Here is what is on the NTPA website:

Super Stock

Rule clarified regarding legal engines in Component Super Stocks (Open and Diesel)
Directs that 2018 Rule A.2 (OEM Chassis), which reads
“Only engines considered legal to be used in Super Stock division must be available in two wheel drive farm tractors (This applies to both OEM and Component type.)” be explicitly applied to define a “legal block” in Component Chassis, as stated in 2018 Rule A.2.16: “Component chassis tractors will be allowed to run any agricultural tractor sheet metal (1960 or newer) with any legal block.”

Re: The elephant in the room November 01, 2018 11:15PM
If NTPA gets more than 6 precommits or averages more than 6 per event, then a case could be made they made the right decision since that would be an increase from 2017.

However, I am skeptical for this reason: I believe this is an NTPA thing and not an Open SS thing. The same pool of tractors has been available to both organizations. Even this past year, Blackbourn ran PPL and I don't recall a mass exodus of PPL tractors.

Is the elephant in the room the smaller purse and points fund rather than engine rules? This coming summer we'll find out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 11:16PM by The Original Michael.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 02, 2018 01:02AM
2 wheel drive farm tractor. I would assume that would include tractors only offered PFA, or does the engine literally have to be out of a 2wd tractor?

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 02, 2018 11:09AM
"sfd823", read & comprehend what "FarmersFun" posted directly from the NTPA website (Tech). Concentrate upon what the Bold Font says and means. That will answer your question.

"Michael", your last paragraph. Answer is, no it is not that. You are correct in being skeptical, though. There were other things that occurred this past summer that not many know about. And we will just leave it at that.

The real bottom line is the V-903 allowance in high horsepower tractor pulling in a two wheel drive version never should have been allowed. Period. That was a very liberal ruling. However, if there was a four wheel drive tractor class, then yeah, I can see allowing the V-903. Then the argument will be, strictly diesel OR allow also alky conversion. And at what cubes. Likely stock or a bit over. If this class ever came about, time for a super huge bloated fat wallet for any competitor.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 02, 2018 12:36PM
I know what it says, I was hoping common sense was going to be factored in.

I'm fairly certain that makes a 8.4 Sisu engine illegal, and probably others that people don't realize.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 02, 2018 11:49PM
sfd823 question is very valid. Show me one manufacture today that offers a high horsepower 2wd (i.e non-fwa) tractor. There are none that I know of so you have just eliminated every new block that is being produced. The 8.4 SISU is already out there in other non-component classes but according to the text in bold print that is not legal in a component chassis.

On the flip side, you can't just say any ridged frame agricultural tractor either because that would make the 12.4L engine in the Challenger 1000 series or the 12L in the Claas Xerion legal and you are back to square one. Disclaimer: I use those as an example, they may be too massive to be practical.

NTPA would be better served to just set down and make a list of legal blocks and be done with it but my guess is they will just handle it on a case by case basis with the variance process.

Of course none of this discussion would be necessary if the cubic inch limits were more reasonable. Smiling

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 03, 2018 02:17AM
Quote
mh49
sfd823 question is very valid. Show me one manufacture today that offers a high horsepower 2wd (i.e non-fwa) tractor. There are none that I know of so you have just eliminated every new block that is being produced. The 8.4 SISU is already out there in other non-component classes but according to the text in bold print that is not legal in a component chassis.

On the flip side, you can't just say any ridged frame agricultural tractor either because that would make the 12.4L engine in the Challenger 1000 series or the 12L in the Claas Xerion legal and you are back to square one. Disclaimer: I use those as an example, they may be too massive to be practical.

NTPA would be better served to just set down and make a list of legal blocks and be done with it but my guess is they will just handle it on a case by case basis with the variance process.

Of course none of this discussion would be necessary if the cubic inch limits were more reasonable. Smiling

First of all most folks reasonably knowledgeable about the terminology used in the ag world know that a 2wd tractor is based off of a 2wd Chassis (ie, 4020,806 etc) of which mfwd is optional equipment. Mfwd has become the norm and an actual 2wd version is a rarity however they are still deemed a 2wd chassis. So an engine out of these are a legal engine. Fuel system type and or valves per cylinder are what is keeping the new engines from becoming a factor right now. Hopefully this clears up your confusion on this particular subject

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 04, 2018 01:55AM
If I remember correctly the original rule of a decade ago stated had to be from a “Row Crop” Tractor which included tractor tots with FWA or MFWD it did not include articulating tractors and if going back to that maybe should be clarified just a bit.



Eric Prewitt
The Prewitt Pulling Team
Public Relations for
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Re: Question for Jake (or anyone else) November 02, 2018 10:51PM
Quote
Jake Morgan
I'm all for allowing "new" technology, but it needs to be done with great forethought and planning. I'm in favor of allowing all OEM parts like EFI, OHC, 24 valves heads, etc... because they are factory offerings, but it gets a little grey-ish when you start allowing all those things in aftermarket products (that's get expensive fast).

In principle I agree. Then again, I'd apply your logic to fuel also, meaning ANY single-charger class with "stock" in the name should allow the fuel the tractor came from the factory running on, meaning I'd allow propane/LP or gas in PS, SF, Light Pro, Limited Pro, and Hot Farm as long as the original engine for that tractor ran those fuels.

My ? is: If EFI, OHC, etc. was allowed, would this drive away a number of pullers either due to cost or they just don't have the desire or time to start from scratch? It would be interesting to hear what pullers in these classes think.

There is also the discussion of EFI as traction control as we've heard about in twd topics, but that's a topic for another day.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2018 10:52PM by The Original Michael.

Re: Question for Jake (or anyone else) November 06, 2018 01:25AM
If the single charger classes allowed factory fuel they would be a whole lot more entertaining.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 07, 2018 01:19AM
This fight over the 2 wheel drive cat thing was thought of 15 yrs ago by me. a friend of mine as a letter of acceptance from Larry rich wine and we both started building 3306 cats for dss but after a while we saw that things were getting so out of control in this class that it was sense less. It's kind of a shame it would have been interesting but probably pointless by now. If you just make the cubic inch limit under 500 like it should have been 40yrs ago maybe this class mite have a chance of survival

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 05, 2018 09:43AM
Conspiracy Theory since Daddy Dave was Pissed over certain tractors not making the show in Benson........


Since i know there was a Spat in tomah so who gets the Last Laugh ?????


Coincidence ?????????????????

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 06, 2018 12:56AM
So I wonder how a track tractor fits in this they are technically driven by two wheels

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 06, 2018 01:24AM
While I agree with your thinking on a track machine, I would advise against picking a engine that would simply be deemed illegal by a petty official with a chip on his shoulder.

Give it time, Fendt and/or CAT will have the V12 Sisu in a row crop wheel tractor, then things will get interesting.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 06, 2018 02:11AM
First off, Cat doesn't build ag tractors, and Fendt and Challenger are the same girl in a different dress.
Don't know if you can really call a 600 HP tractor with 36" wide rear tires a row crop tractor.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 06, 2018 08:01AM
Someone has their panties in a wad and feels like splitting hairs I see.

Cat, Challenger, who gives a crap.

Thanks for wasting this site's bandwidth.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 06, 2018 10:13AM
The track tractor we have has adjustable track width to fit between rows I think it could be considered a row crop . The 9200t jd had the 10.5 which is basically a overhead cam electronic 619 . Same bore spacing same rear bolt pattern and there are a few guys running them in some lower classes bolts right in a 6030.Plus I think the 8.4 sisu would fit . Can’t see how it’s much different than putting a 8.3 Cummins in a 1066,Oliver,moline etc.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 06, 2018 11:18AM
And you wasted more with your response.

Re: iIs V-8 out? November 07, 2018 12:52AM
Why all the bickering???? Just change it to a modified class and you don't have to worry about all the rules you're discussing!

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