iIs V-8 out?
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SAM BAM
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hard to follow all of this.
Are v8 out in SS? |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 12/19/2016 Posts: 1,213 |
Just the 903 Cummins motor so Lustik's Silver Bullet still can run because it's a CAT motor. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Moderator Registered: 01/11/2009 Posts: 1,602 |
Brent the 3208 is legal because it was in a fixed frame tractor...2255 Oliver and White 2-180, not because of the manufacturee. By that same metric all of the Perkins V8s are legal as well as the 550(?) Offered in 1468 and 1568 IH machines...Open SS, not light SS. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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LSS Fan
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If the engine came in a tractor it should be legal. Whether it is a 1960 or 2019 model tractor. That means V8, OHC, EFI, 24V, etc. should all be allowed. My opinion anyways. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Lss Fan the things you mentioned would cost the already over priced dying class another 40 thousand .To many pullers are all about self no matter what class and couldnt beat CRAP if it were apples to apples |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 12/19/2016 Posts: 1,213 |
Bryan you are right. It made sense in my head because I knew the difference because of the tractors it came from. Sorry if it confused anyone. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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LSS Fan
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Lewis you talk about killing an already dying class, yet they just booted atleast 4 tractors from the dying class by tightening up rules. I think you would actually get more new builds if you opened the rules up. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Fan there are few to build a 100 to 150 thousand dollar TOY those four over powered pay loaders killed the class Them guys has shown them selfs as being so loaded with cash a new engine to them is equel to me buying a new set of tires for my daily driver pickup .They will be back and just as strong |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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LSS Fan
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Everyone says that the V8s killed the class, yet what won the GN points, a 6 cylinder or V8 the last three years. The two GALOT tractors won the title in 2016 and 2017 and won a total of 9 hooks. Chizek V8s won 12 hooks. Maybe it is GALOT's I6 that destroyed the class and ran everyone off! lol |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Admin Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,548 |
If you take an objective look at our sport, the more restrictive the rules are the higher the number of participants. Diesel Super and Open Super have less participant combined compared to classes like Light Pro (which is one of the newer classes in the sport and it already has higher numbers). The more open the rules, the more open your wallet will be.
I'm all for allowing "new" technology, but it needs to be done with great forethought and planning. I'm in favor of allowing all OEM parts like EFI, OHC, 24 valves heads, etc... because they are factory offerings, but it gets a little grey-ish when you start allowing all those things in aftermarket products (that's get expensive fast). Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
I would love to se some oem factory 24 valve alcohol heads from IH or the oem efi that JD puts in there 6 bottom plow tractor LOL |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 12/09/2008 Posts: 361 |
Just to clarify, I think some are missing the wording of the rule on when a V8 can be used. It has to be from an OE two wheel drive model.
Here is what is on the NTPA website: Super Stock Rule clarified regarding legal engines in Component Super Stocks (Open and Diesel) Directs that 2018 Rule A.2 (OEM Chassis), which reads “Only engines considered legal to be used in Super Stock division must be available in two wheel drive farm tractors (This applies to both OEM and Component type.)” be explicitly applied to define a “legal block” in Component Chassis, as stated in 2018 Rule A.2.16: “Component chassis tractors will be allowed to run any agricultural tractor sheet metal (1960 or newer) with any legal block.” |
Re: The elephant in the room
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,436 |
If NTPA gets more than 6 precommits or averages more than 6 per event, then a case could be made they made the right decision since that would be an increase from 2017.
However, I am skeptical for this reason: I believe this is an NTPA thing and not an Open SS thing. The same pool of tractors has been available to both organizations. Even this past year, Blackbourn ran PPL and I don't recall a mass exodus of PPL tractors. Is the elephant in the room the smaller purse and points fund rather than engine rules? This coming summer we'll find out. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 11:16PM by The Original Michael. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
2 wheel drive farm tractor. I would assume that would include tractors only offered PFA, or does the engine literally have to be out of a 2wd tractor? |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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simpleton
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"sfd823", read & comprehend what "FarmersFun" posted directly from the NTPA website (Tech). Concentrate upon what the Bold Font says and means. That will answer your question.
"Michael", your last paragraph. Answer is, no it is not that. You are correct in being skeptical, though. There were other things that occurred this past summer that not many know about. And we will just leave it at that. The real bottom line is the V-903 allowance in high horsepower tractor pulling in a two wheel drive version never should have been allowed. Period. That was a very liberal ruling. However, if there was a four wheel drive tractor class, then yeah, I can see allowing the V-903. Then the argument will be, strictly diesel OR allow also alky conversion. And at what cubes. Likely stock or a bit over. If this class ever came about, time for a super huge bloated fat wallet for any competitor. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
I know what it says, I was hoping common sense was going to be factored in.
I'm fairly certain that makes a 8.4 Sisu engine illegal, and probably others that people don't realize. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Moderator Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 90 |
sfd823 question is very valid. Show me one manufacture today that offers a high horsepower 2wd (i.e non-fwa) tractor. There are none that I know of so you have just eliminated every new block that is being produced. The 8.4 SISU is already out there in other non-component classes but according to the text in bold print that is not legal in a component chassis.
On the flip side, you can't just say any ridged frame agricultural tractor either because that would make the 12.4L engine in the Challenger 1000 series or the 12L in the Claas Xerion legal and you are back to square one. Disclaimer: I use those as an example, they may be too massive to be practical. NTPA would be better served to just set down and make a list of legal blocks and be done with it but my guess is they will just handle it on a case by case basis with the variance process. Of course none of this discussion would be necessary if the cubic inch limits were more reasonable. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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A further explanation
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First of all most folks reasonably knowledgeable about the terminology used in the ag world know that a 2wd tractor is based off of a 2wd Chassis (ie, 4020,806 etc) of which mfwd is optional equipment. Mfwd has become the norm and an actual 2wd version is a rarity however they are still deemed a 2wd chassis. So an engine out of these are a legal engine. Fuel system type and or valves per cylinder are what is keeping the new engines from becoming a factor right now. Hopefully this clears up your confusion on this particular subject |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 345 |
If I remember correctly the original rule of a decade ago stated had to be from a “Row Crop” Tractor which included tractor tots with FWA or MFWD it did not include articulating tractors and if going back to that maybe should be clarified just a bit. Eric Prewitt The Prewitt Pulling Team Public Relations for The Pulling Radio Network |
Re: Question for Jake (or anyone else)
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,436 |
In principle I agree. Then again, I'd apply your logic to fuel also, meaning ANY single-charger class with "stock" in the name should allow the fuel the tractor came from the factory running on, meaning I'd allow propane/LP or gas in PS, SF, Light Pro, Limited Pro, and Hot Farm as long as the original engine for that tractor ran those fuels. My ? is: If EFI, OHC, etc. was allowed, would this drive away a number of pullers either due to cost or they just don't have the desire or time to start from scratch? It would be interesting to hear what pullers in these classes think. There is also the discussion of EFI as traction control as we've heard about in twd topics, but that's a topic for another day. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2018 10:52PM by The Original Michael. |
Re: Question for Jake (or anyone else)
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YesYesYes
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If the single charger classes allowed factory fuel they would be a whole lot more entertaining. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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This fight over the 2 wheel drive cat thing was thought of 15 yrs ago by me. a friend of mine as a letter of acceptance from Larry rich wine and we both started building 3306 cats for dss but after a while we saw that things were getting so out of control in this class that it was sense less. It's kind of a shame it would have been interesting but probably pointless by now. If you just make the cubic inch limit under 500 like it should have been 40yrs ago maybe this class mite have a chance of survival |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Conspiracy Theory since Daddy Dave was Pissed over certain tractors not making the show in Benson........
Since i know there was a Spat in tomah so who gets the Last Laugh ????? Coincidence ????????????????? |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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So I wonder how a track tractor fits in this they are technically driven by two wheels |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
While I agree with your thinking on a track machine, I would advise against picking a engine that would simply be deemed illegal by a petty official with a chip on his shoulder.
Give it time, Fendt and/or CAT will have the V12 Sisu in a row crop wheel tractor, then things will get interesting. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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First off, Cat doesn't build ag tractors, and Fendt and Challenger are the same girl in a different dress.
Don't know if you can really call a 600 HP tractor with 36" wide rear tires a row crop tractor. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Registered: 08/02/2008 Posts: 236 |
Someone has their panties in a wad and feels like splitting hairs I see.
Cat, Challenger, who gives a crap. Thanks for wasting this site's bandwidth. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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The track tractor we have has adjustable track width to fit between rows I think it could be considered a row crop . The 9200t jd had the 10.5 which is basically a overhead cam electronic 619 . Same bore spacing same rear bolt pattern and there are a few guys running them in some lower classes bolts right in a 6030.Plus I think the 8.4 sisu would fit . Can’t see how it’s much different than putting a 8.3 Cummins in a 1066,Oliver,moline etc. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Dirtfarmer
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And you wasted more with your response. |
Re: iIs V-8 out?
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Old Mod Puller
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Why all the bickering???? Just change it to a modified class and you don't have to worry about all the rules you're discussing! |
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