07:28:51am, Sunday, April 28, 2024
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EFI topic I split this thread
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The one major change i believe that tractor pulling needs if to approve and accept the use of EFI. The drag racing world is going crazy making power and growing, both diesel and gas engines. There will never be a world again without EFI, pulling has to get with the times to not die as quickly as its looking like it will. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:10AM by Dick Morgan. |
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EFI topic
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Deer gone wildl
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More power more scattered parts and I’m sure more cost if you want ego go race don’t bother us Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:10AM by Dick Morgan. |
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EFI topic
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EFI does not mean more scattered parts. It means more power, safer more acurate fueling. would open up every alcohol V8 class to more turbo setups. More possibilities=more pullers. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:11AM by Dick Morgan. |
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EFI topic
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Registered: 05/04/2013 Posts: 114 |
EFI would mean LESS scattered parts because it is more likely to prevent a lean condition which has killed many engines. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:11AM by Dick Morgan. |
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EFI topic
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Exactly bp4455. EFI does NOT make more power in and of itself. What EFI does is allow the tuner to unleash the available power that is already there through more efficient use of the fuel, air, and spark. Is it daunting and looks complicated? Yes. But once a person feels comfortable with the system, it is just like tuning by "the seat of your pants". What I don't understand, is: if it were available, no one is making anyone use it. If a tuner is comfortable with MFI, stay with it. Just like any of the other myriad of choices in ones life. JW Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:12AM by Dick Morgan. |
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EFI topic
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NHRA Fan
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Some of you just want EFI to make your turbo engine more competitive. However if you think that you’ll be the only turbo in the class at that point, think again.
The part that y’all’s are missing is that EFI isn’t free. Most of the EFI systems cost $16-22k for a pro mod drag car. I can rebuild a Hemi a few times for that money and not have any issues all summer long. If EFI was the cure-all, NHRA would’ve gone to EFI in their fuel classes a long time ago. Instead they are trying to protect their racers from themselves and help them save money by limiting power. They aren’t giving their teams more options to make more efficient power and giving them more computer controlled capabilities. The day that EFI is allowed is pulling (all classes) you will in-fact see several pullers retire. It’s hard enough to justify spending $$$ to win $900. But sure let’s force the puller to spend another chunk of change to keep up. EFI is a foolish idea. But I guess if you’re a bottom feeder, you’ll take anything to change the rules if it helps you get down the track further. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:13AM by Dick Morgan. |
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EFI topic
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NHRA fan fan
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Very well spoken NHRA Fan!!! Very well spoken!! Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:13AM by Dick Morgan. |
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EFI topic
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
NHRA fan, I will just take your response personally--why does the issue of EFI have to be associated with turbochargers? This bottom feeder--and not everyone can be a winner which is diametrically opposed to what a lot of you want--more equal, more fair, etc. so anyone can win--is necessary, because without the non-winners you got no show. NHRA Pro Mod EFI units might cost $16K, but not all EFI units do. You would be surprised at the number of pullers who endorse EFI and you can trust me (since most everyone knows me, unlike some posters), they are not bottom feeders. JW Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:14AM by Dick Morgan. |
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EFI topic
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Ken
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I think the worst downfall to EFI in pulling would be policing traction control. Traction control ruins pulling. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:15AM by Dick Morgan. |
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EFI topic
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Why are we even going down this road
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The idea of keeping pulling affordable is to cut costs. How in the world is allowing EFI going to cut costs? A puller will have to go through several different trial and errors to get even close. By that time he could’ve just went with his mechanical setup and had fun. However in order to stay “cutting edge” and keep up, he WILL be forced to upgrade to your so called money saving EFI.
If you want EFI to keep your tractor together that’s fine. But just know that if it’s allowed on your turbo motor, that the blower motors get it also. Unless only the turbo guys get to use EFI... be careful what you ask for JW. There’s some pretty trick computer EFI stuff out there for blower motors now, that a turbo motor can’t touch as far as consistency goes. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2019 02:14AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: EFI topic
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
Just to be clear, because my name might be associated with a topic, does not mean that I am the instigator of that issue. Not even sure I wuld use EFI, it's all about choices. I am not the only person in favor of its use. A couple of years ago, when this issue emerged, I was asked to present the use of EFI to the NTPA Board of Directors (which is kinda one of the responsibilities of a Board member). So, I did. Since that time, for whatever reason, it has become associated with my name. One issue I have is all of the misinformation regarding EFI that is prevalent. Like any other matter, there are many factors to be considered. That's all. JW |
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Re: EFI topic
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Bandit496. Would like to talk to you about efi. Is there a way to contact you to speak with you? |
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Re: EFI topic
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
You can email at bandittt540@outlook.com or call 5173692001. JW |
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Re: EFI topic
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Ask Jeeves
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So what misinformation is there?
EFI seems pretty straight forward. It’s a fuel management system that is operated by a computer and can be manipulated to the users liking. What are we missing? |
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Re: EFI topic
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
It seems to me that traction control is either already present, or at least thought to be. If I recall correctly, there were rule proposals this past winter to legalize it. Seems to me that competitors in some classes have decided if it can't be policed, let everyone have it with a clear conscience. |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Registered: 02/27/2019 Posts: 20 |
I believe that EFI should be considered.
We are not just talking about alcohol, we are talking diesel too. What wold be the difference between a $10K Sigma in Pro Stock and the equivalent EFI set up or what the real cost of a mechanical fuel system. Sure you can go out and buy a garage sale fuel system (and that is the way I do it) but there are alot of people that are running multi thousand dollar mechanical fuel set ups. How much is a Blackburn fuel system??? It sure isn't a $1500 set up. The real reason to allow EFI is to bring in new, younger competitors. Younger high performance enthusiasts are not carburetor and injection pump people, they are key board tuners. The more we ignore EFI, the more future competitors we are going to lose. I also am getting a feeling that the traction control is not as much as an issue that even I thought it was. There is traction control out there. There was a picture of GN 4WD competitor on Davis Technologies FB page a few years ago. I have spoken to former GN champions in the class and the opinion was that traction control is not going to take a 10th place truck and make it a 2nd place truck. And everyone that seems to have a complaint about it can't find it and the organizations are out of there depth on being able to identify it too. The same effects can be accomplished with fuel, spark and the data logger. The sport needs to usher it in to bring in new generations of pullers and become more educated before everyone loses interest in the sport overall. Just my $.02 worth. |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Young Wannabe Puller
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If anyone thinks that EFI is gonna make pulling affordable and attract more pullers then why didn’t it happen 10 or 15 years ago? The “racing EFI” technology has been available.
The problem is that pulling is a hobby for the rich or for people who think they are. A lot of my friends 25-30 yrs old, think they can afford to soup up their street diesel pickup and run the local county fairs. By the end of the summer they are complaining because of how broke they are. Now replace that super farm, mini rod, or even a hot farm, and you still won’t have new, younger pullers herding in. The narrative that EFI will solve all of truck and tractor pullings’ problems for the puller is so far from the truth that t doesn’t even make sense. It still takes money to just build the tractor or truck and operate it. The EFI as far as I’m concerned is just another cost/hassle. Sure let the diesels and alcohol supers have EFI. Those guys are in a league of their own. But if you let the minis, twd, mods have EFI, guys will quit bc it’s either more complicated than it needs to be, and/or it won’t prove anything. The cream will still rise to the top. Opening things up to EFI will not put more butts in the seats of the grandstands. After all that’s the only reason pulling even exists. We need to drop ticket prices, and make it more affordable for a family to watch us do what we enjoy. Lord only knows the payouts to the pullers won’t increase. So my dreams of being a GN level puller will just be that. A darn dream.. |
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Re: EFI in European pulling
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Correct me if wrong, but isn't EFI used in Europe? I want to say it's used in the Euro Pro Stock class. If correct, maybe some European pullers can share their thoughts. How much more expensive is running EFI on a pro stock tractor than not? |
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Re: EFI in European pulling
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EFI for Dummies
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This goes back to thread on NTPA having a new CEO. This is not a complicated fix. NO EFI at State or Regional Level. EFI at Grand National Level only. |
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Re: EFI in European pulling
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Mitten State
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Except for the Wolverine hooks. Might mess up some pullers agendas if it’s only GN legal lol |
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Re: EFI in European pulling
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Registered: 07/06/2017 Posts: 369 |
EFI will not cure anything. These alky tractors still require LOTS of maintenance no matter what type of fuel system it has on it. The ones that run well with mechanical fuel systems, will still be the ones that run well with EFI. From what I've seen, the ones who keep hollering about EFI are the ones who want to look over their tractor while its still in the trailer from last weekend. In most cases, that doesn't cut it. There is no instant fix all with Alky tractors like sum seem to think. |
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Re: EFI in European pulling
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
This is funny we are talking about tractors not jet airplanes or rockets how crazy is it to say tractor pulling is stuck in the 70s To this day theres know real tractors running log skidder rear ends,MSD crank triger or mag ingnitions,Know Hilburn,Waterman, or endererle fuel systems .know custom rods 3or 4 giant turbos pro fab trans the list goes on and on,So think about what a real tractor was that took the place of a mule on the farm and what they are on the track. Stupid to say they are getting behind times The smart thing to say tractor pulling is pricing itself OUT |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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All i am saying with EFI is the ability to have more engine builders and tuners enter the sport. We are 20 years deep into the 2000's and pulling is still back in the 70's. As a sport we need to evolve or die. |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Nhra fan
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I’m fairly confident that any tuner that wants to be part of the pulling world is already here.
When NHRA allowed EFI in the Pro Stock class, I didn’t see any new engine builders or tuners come out of the woodwork. In fact many of the legendary names in the class retired almost immediately. Sure there was more to the story. However it took the class away from its roots and just added to the cost to race. And you’ll be hard pressed to find a fan that gives a darn about the new fuel system. They just want to see their favorite driver light the win bulbs. |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Been around
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NHRA fan,
I usually browse this page just to find out what's going on, but today the level of ignorance has reached an all time high. You may want to check your prices again for a Pro Mod EFI and ignition system. Systems like BigStuff3, HalTech, MS3 Pro and Holley are significantly less than what you quoted us, even with an internal datalogger, coil packs and injectors. You also mentioned EFI in Pro Stock. If you remember the arguments for EFI, Warren Johnson was one of the many for it and the reason was that he had to own a different carburetor setup for every track. As the engines changed to make more power, so did the carbs. In an interview from pre-EFI, he showed he had nearly $1 MILLION in carbs! Will EFI be cheaper for anyone ever mechanical? Only if it tries to save you from a bad tune-up. I really get tired of watching guys show up for years at a time with no clue how to tune their vehicle. I've seen Bandit496 make a very strong effort to tune for a fairly difficult set of circumstances in the mini class, but guys in other classes like Open SS or light super, just never get close an continue to WASTE FANS TIME by running a vehicle that looks like it gets serviced at the WalMart auto center. If we're ever going to claim to be a major motorsport, there CANNOT be room for competitors who cant make a competitive run. NASCAR doesn't allow teams to stay on the track if they dont maintain a minimum speed. Drag racing organizations dont allow guys in the show who cant make a full run. They do have times where someone misses the tune and has to let off, but they NEVER have teams who just cant get it done. Better teams would force them out and keep them out of the show. Why? Because there is actually some money at stake. The people running the organizations and the promoters in these other sports understand that if there is nothing to win, all you get to put on your show is hobbyists that cant always put in the time necessary. ...and if you're worried about traction control, welcome to 2005, everyone has it. It doesn't matter what you run, its on vehicles. Pro Stocks, SF or Lim Pro are probably even doing it by turning the water up and down. Most of those guys have worked with dynos, so it's not as if they couldnt know how much extra water it would take to kill off a couple hundred HP so the tires hook up. The sad thing is that traction control could be done mechanically, so in some form is most definitely going to be here. EFI with distributorless ignition was out on a production turbocharged Buick Regal in 1984, you would hope that 35 years later we would be allowed to use this NEW technology. |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
Well said |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Cheap at half the price
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Do you honestly believe that Warren Johnson is running a $300 ECU? I bet they have over 2 million invested in EFI by now,plus they still have that million dollars worth of carbs. You mention EFI equipment designed for the hobbyist and then in the next breath shoot down the hobbyist pullers as not worth watching? You cant go to Jegs and buy the System Warren Johnson is running. |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Wrong sight this is tractor pulling nothing to do with a 84 buick thats AUTO TECHNOLOGY .And yes in the automotive engine classes go for it .You can use all the stuff you just mentioned Been around guy at a local drag strip near you lets JUST go nuclear that technology has been around longer than the EFI on that BUICK |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Question for Lewis
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You still running points on your builds? |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Naw i got a old magneter from from a old well rig But i am thinking of upgrading to points or magnetic pickup .But first I'm going to get rid of the old 4 roller corn spray pump alcohol eats them plastic rollers up and can only get 84 psi fuel pressure and i need to put it back on the corn spray weeds are taking over |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Registered: 09/23/2008 Posts: 632 |
you better get the weeds sprayed and be sure to use roundup and then file in the class action that you are going to die from rr induced cancer, then you can build a super instead of a light limited. |
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Re: EFI topic I split this thread
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
George give me a call sometimes Lost my phone in the river while working the floods and lost a lot of numbers |
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