03:22:53am, Wednesday, May 01, 2024
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D2
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Registered: 07/27/2017 Posts: 184 |
Congrats to Darrin Hunt and the D2 team. They have been on a tear when they show up to the National Events.
Does anybody know if they plan on running the full schedule of Nationals this year? Also, is that a red or green block? I'm assuming Ted, but there's a lot of crossover both ways. Just curious if anybody knows. |
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Re: D2
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Wow9
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That is the very last tractor on this earth that would be Red with a Green engine. |
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Re: D2
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Team one
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I know of some green tractors with red blocks in them, but no red with green are there any? |
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Re: D2
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Team one
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If that’s true about the work horse, that’s too bad I guess I’ll just pool him together with the other 50 John Deeres, it is kind of surprising to see him go that route he seemed to keep up just fine. |
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Re: D2
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Them Two
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Harts Massey (RED) that is Black has a Big Block Deere. |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 07/27/2017 Posts: 184 |
Anybody know if he's planning on running the Nationals all year? The way he performed last year and the win to kick off this year, I have to think he's the favorite to win the points. |
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Re: D2
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IH 5488
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If it is true which the growing agreement is that it is I have no interest watching workhorse go down the track. Will go get something to eat and use the restroom when he runs. Really a shame grew up watching him pull |
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Re: D2
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The point
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using different blocks under different metal from what it was intended reinforces the thought that if reasonable cubic inch limits had been put in place years ago, we wouldn't have this problem. It is also why Light Pro Stock is popular now. Don't blame a puller for wanting to run a combo that will live better as long as it is legal, they are only trying to stay competitive. |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 02/23/2017 Posts: 137 |
I'm not putting you on the spot here with your statement, but what would be a "reasonable cubic inch limit"? 640? 540? What about the 3208 Cat engine that comes in just under 640 in stock configuration? Perkins have an option I suppose of 640 or 540. 540 would cover the 531 BB Deere motor. Just asking a logical question, I have thought many times "what if" the cubic inch limit was smaller. |
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Re: D2
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MAKE PRO STOCK GREAT AGAIN
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I agree with Logan Thomas, cubic inches are way out of line. What 2wd tractor came from factory with 680 cubic inches? 540 would be a perfect size. If cubic inches dont get lowered the prostock class will be 100% green engines, if you don't think so well im sure you didn't think Rob Russell would have a Deere powerplant in his tractor either. You guys might think its too late to lower cubic inches but in reality it really isn't, pretty much everyone freshens up their engines every winter so instead of putting the same pistons in put a smaller sleeve with smaller pistons to make for smaller bores or get a different crank which ever it may be.
MAKE PRO STOCK GREAT AGAIN |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 04/04/2008 Posts: 1,522 |
decubing 140 sq in means new head,valves,crank,pistons,sleeves,more than likely rods,and it would be smart to change the block,to add structural rigidity....btdt |
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Re: D2
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The point, Logan
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540 pro stock 470 super stock 370 light super |
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Re: D2
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The LSS and pro stock numbers are just fine. Every GN class doesn't need 40 entries. The problem is when Joe hot farm or Larry LLSS think they belong on the big stage. I go to local pulls to see those classes and I go to GN pulls to see the big boys. There are thousands of guys that race cars in this country, but only 40 run in NASCAR. |
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Re: D2
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D2 Fan
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Some think the Harvester power plants cannot hang with the bbjd's. However time and better parts have allowed the smaller block motors to be able to compete. I believe The Hunt Brothers are gonna make a huge impact on the scene of the ss and prostock divisions. It's about time someone has stepped up and put Red back in the mix in the previously dominant "Green Show" I've been to many pulls where prostock had only green tractors show up. Keep up the fight Hunt brothers! Also kudos to Nick McCormick, The Cain family, Cody and others who have not given up on the prostock division. |
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Re: D2
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Posts: 1,161 |
I have a question for you "IH 5488", if no one told you that he was switching to a green motor, would you know the difference as he went down the track? With the cost it takes to run these, I understand that he wants his motor to last as long as possible while staying as competitive as possible. If that means him going green, then so be it. To the average fan they just like to watch these awesome tractors go down the track! Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: D2
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IH 5488
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Actually to answer your question I can. Why? Been around the sport for over 30 years and true red pros have a sound all there own to the tune of higher rpms. Knowledgeable fans do know the difference sorry to disappoint you. |
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Re: D2
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Posts: 1,161 |
You didn't disappoint me. Because of your experience and knowledge you're able to tell the difference, so kudos. I'd also rephrase to knowledgeable fans who have worked around both types of tractors would be able to tell the difference because I don't know enough to be able to tell the difference, but I do know a whole lot about tractor pulling. I do believe whatever decisions pullers make are to benefit themselves in one way or another and I support those decisions they make as I want pulling to grow, not go in the direction of other motorsports. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
IH 5488 was to nice it's a bunch of bull @#$%& with the engine changes but on the other hand they are fake tractors skidders with a fake hood no different than the WWE wrestling theft by deception to a young farm boy who loves tractors and has brand loyalty a cube limmit would have taking care of it all im with you 5488 |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Brent think about what direction the other motor sports you speek of and explain how tractor pulling is not going in that direction .to get a good number in a class of any of the big big boy classes it takes all the tractors in 28 states to show up how how many PS,ULSS.SS .SSD tractors are out there across the country Numbers are poor .The direction has been set and pointed to extinction |
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Re: D2
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Posts: 1,161 |
Lewis, I don’t want tractor pulling to go towards extinction. I know the big boy classes are hard to get numbers for, but that’s why I would like to see some change to point it in the opposite direction. That’s why I think that cross dressing these tractors as some say may help with keeping Pullers interested in the class. Brent Yaron Hooked Up Pulling Productions hookeduppullingproductions@gmail.com |
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Re: D2
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
There is no fan interest in cross dressed tractors. A real Massy or any other "off" brand has the attention of the fans. They all know that anything else is fake. No interest,no excitement, no one cares if a cross dresser wins the class. And just changing sheetmetal will not save dying clases. They have rules that are the enemy of any growth. |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 02/21/2012 Posts: 797 |
Just to add to your point:--Nothing against the Harts, but they just don't get the same reaction from the Massey fans as Cope or Kuhn. John Murray Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama. Watch LGP on YouTube Like LGP on Facebook 
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Re: D2
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Registered: 06/16/2017 Posts: 66 |
I guess then you have the opposite feeling about Couch's "Cotton Pickin' Deere? |
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Re: D2
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IH 5488
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Yes and no. Absolutely hate that rule. Dont really understand why Mr Couch doesn't just change the sheet metal. But knowing this do I hope Couch wins against a whole class of bbjd honestly yea but d I hate the rule with a frickin passion that is the PG response |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 06/30/2008 Posts: 186 |
..and then you have the occasional announcer who makes a huge deal about the mixed engine/chassis/hood combination to stir the pot even further...LOL |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
I am brand loyal a Jd is a piece of crap when it comes to pulling apples to apples crap they couldn't compete years ago with their 466 engines against the IH 466S OR THE FORDS so they finally started putting those big engines in them after the IH guys and others felt sorry for them and had a stupid moment in time and allowed the rule change for the big cubes lots of stupid moments in every class .To draw interest in pulling for the next gen these fake tractors need to at least start putting Kabota,Mahindra and other brand sheet metal on these.I could ROOT for a fake kobota quICker than a FAKE IH Gee you you guys have no loyalty do something different green and red is getting booring Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2019 03:27PM by Lewis Conner. |
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Re: D2
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wellwell
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Well you boys really have woken me up on this nice Sunday morning. Don't ya all know it's not nice to talk bad about trans-tractors. I started out on a red one and then fell in love with a green one. Yea she had a skinny set of pipes and a small rearend with a little 466. I'll giver her a ride once in a while but she's old and out classed but she's all I've got. |
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Re: D2
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Trent DeClerck
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Just throwing this out there!!! Everyone talks about brand loyalty and I totally understand that. Keep in mind there is only one item those tractors that is brand specific....the engine block. You’ve got the brand idea worn pretty thin. Just food for thought. |
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Re: D2
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LSS Fan
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Agreed, the argument is comical when literally the only OEM component on the tractors is the engine block. And that block certainly was never in any of the newer sheet metal. |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 03/31/2008 Posts: 762 |
Aren’t most of the PS & SS teams running aftermarket blocks too? So now it’s quite possible that nothing in your favorite tractor was manufactured by Deere / Case IH. |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 03/17/2019 Posts: 65 |
In 1980 cubic inch limit in pro stock was 620. No pump limitations no turbo limitations and this was called a beginner class for guys to eventually move to super stock. In a few years the class had progressed away from its originaly intended path to something all of it's own. Now we talk about cubic inch limitations and other limitations and wonder why we have falling numbers and rising costs. The bigger the cubes the bigger the checkbook has to be to support it. Maybe someday common sense will prevail but until that happens get used to what's happening now and expect more of the same |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 10/18/2011 Posts: 262 |
Fuzz you are exactly right !!! |
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Re: D2
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Breathingdieselsmoke
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Ummm..mind if I chime in? Longtime 2nd gen puller here. Yes! Cubic inch limits should be discussed! Everyone moving to super stock, multiple turbos fixes everything?? Pffft. Puhleaase! Promotrs need numbers of guys that can run and fill classes and make late season hooks...not just few. 300lb of boost dont fix everything either boys, sorry. What about what the pullers want too? Durability, performance, and putting o a good show WITH numbers?! You are only addressing the tip of the iceberg. |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
The bottom line is pullers get together and start a good class with good intentions usually because they can't afford to go the next level and then forget what its all about and screw it up and to chicken @#$%& to vote down a rule they don't want because there friend or somebody that does want it is in the room seen it to many times |
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Re: D2
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Dave Dann
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Fuzz, where did you come up with a limited to 620 cubes in '80?
I spent very considerable hours studying at least one NTPA rulebook per decade and comparing the features and changes for the current "Legends" feature in "the PULLER" magazine. Here is what I said: "What I found real interesting in the 1984 rulebook, was there is absolutely no mention anywhere (General Rules that apply to all Competition Divisions; and Division specific rules) about engine cubic inches." And I just looked at that rulebook again, not only in that aforementioned section, but also the Pro Stock section. Yep, no cubic inch specifications. In fact, not just for only that class. 1993 was the next rulebook studied and was the first rulebook where I saw any cubic inch limitations for any class: "p. 52 - Wow, this is an eye opener, stipulating for the first time in any of my reviewed rulebooks, an engine cubic inch limitation. These are for the Modified MINI Tractors. “Maximum of 575 cubic inches for a blown (supercharged) engine OR 650 cu. in. naturally aspirated for all National levels of pulling.” p. 57 & 58 state 650 cubic inches of natural aspiration for FWD in GN, PN and State with gasoline or alcohol fuel. p. 61 - TWD: Now, “Passenger-type bodies are allowed.” GN allows up to 650 cu. in. engine whereas PN and State National allow up to 575." 2003 was the next rulebook I studied. p. 38 to 40 - Modified/Unlimited engine still with no cubic inch maximum. p. 41 to 45 - Super Stock tractors have expanded from 3 pages now to 4 with the permission of a component chassis. However, no cross dressing of engine brand versus sheet metal. Now have engine head style specifications and maximum cubic inches. Sheet metal to be 1960 or newer. p.46 specifies diesel fuel only for PS tractor. p. 45 to 47 - PS tractor still with ‘stock’ chassis. Now specifies “No engine larger than 680 cid (+ or - 1 percent).” Larry Richwine states “that was the biggest engine that had been built at the time, so it was limited to 680.” p. 47 - “Pro Stock tractors are allowed to compete, under their own division rules and regulations (excluding weight), in Heavy Super Stock classes at all levels.” p. 47, 48 - SF engine no larger than 640 (+ or - 1 %). Before the pulling season, the turbo, which needs to conform to specific dimensions, is required to be disassembled and reassembled for certification in front of a “NTPA designated licensed official”. p. 49 - Added to the Modified Mini is “Forty-five (45) percent maximum overdrive on 14-71 Hi-Helix or retro-fit type superchargers.” Hi-Helix was never mentioned in General Rules or Modified/Unlimited Tractor. p. 55 - Super Modified FWD engine now 500 cu. in. maximum. Was 575 in ’93. p. 60 - D.1.a. - “At all levels of TWD competition - a limit of 575 cu. in. and two valves per cylinder.” p. 62 to 65. “Section XIII. Semi Truck Rules”. Diesel or gasoline fueled engine as long as at least 500 available commercial truck engines was originally produced. (Biggest gassers in a Semi I know of = IH Red Diamond 501 cube 6 cylinder and 549 V-8; White 6 cylinder 505 & 811 cube; Ford 534 cube V-8; GMC 702 cube V-12.) Semi division offered the single turbocharged Pro Stock and the multiple turbocharged engine with two stages as the Super Semi. However, both versions were allowed to compete in the Super Semi class. (Although I did not find that stipulation in the rules, that is what has transpired over the years.) p. 64 - “the only hitch accepted pulls directly off the fifth wheel.” p. 65 - Only publicly available “road use approved tires” are allowed with the rule defining a maximum size and not to be mounted on a split rim or wedge lug type wheel." So as you can see, once NTPA executive started addressing Cubic Inch maximums, it was very seriously taken into consideration what was already performing on the track, usually to continue to be allowed. So come to today, consider the huge aspect that increased technology has played upon engine longevity and especially power enhancement. 2010 was the next rulebook studied: "p. 51 - #13: “NTPA will allow component tractors at all levels of Pro Stock competition under the following criteria:” in 12 lettered rule specifications. Which includes “Block does not have to be the same brand as sheet metal.” (p. 52) " DISCLAIMER: The above were the rules at the time. They may OR May Not be in effect today (2019). If you are a puller, it is your responsibility to know, or at least check, the 2019 NTPA rulebook rules, to apply to your specific pulling vehicle. |
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Re: D2
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Team one
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It’s got more to do with JD people mostly fans thinking they are better than everyone else and riding a high horse when the only class they have to lean on is the pro stock class , how do you propose we equal the class in the dss? What can you do in that class with an IH that you can’t do with a JD? It’s not a cubic inch thing... |
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Re: D2
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d2
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Maybe try allowing engines from this century instead of making everything illegal. |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Dave,
I don't remember any cubic inch limits to the class in it's early years either. The Superstocks and Prostock were unlimited cubic inches back in their early days, even the LSS was a wild wild west class with anything goes back in the day. It was finally "limited" to 680 at some point because that's what the biggest engines at the time were already running. I remember getting an email from Bobby Sarver back in the late 1990's or early 2000's giving me the history of the cubic inch limits in the class. They were one of the teams at 680 as was Carl Schuler (Super Moose) and there were only a very, very small handful of others were running a big block. If memory serves me there was a cheap setup for big block Deere's with an IH407 rod and maybe a Cat piston that with a little boring took them to 680 so that's where they set the limit. In 1998 the NTPA changed the rules for the Prostock cubic inch limits from 680 down to 620 (I wrote an Opinion article about it that November... I thought the limit was still too high). The rules were intended to go into effect in 2000 with 1999 being a build down period. The NTPA rescinded the rule change after just a month or two. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Jake in the earlier days it didn't need to be the tractors had to run the stock block or factory replacment and the crankshaft had to swing also they were running the tractor rear ends that helped keep the heavier engines out |
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Re: D2
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punisher....
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When was the last time there was a thread with a bunch of you whining about how the DSS class is nothing but 8 freaking Internationals. Yet it's still heralded as such a great class, it's boring and uninteresting, where is the discussion about changing the rules to level that playing field? I don't love the cross dressing tractor rule, but the only class anyone complains about is the PS class, do you complain that a 5.9 cummins can be run in pretty much every LLSS? No. How about a cummins in a Ford or Chevy 4x4 diesel truck? Nope no complaints. Only in PS, because how dare the JD have an advantage, the truth is IH fans are still bitter that their stupid company went out of business in the 80's, and JD has turned itself into a staple of American culture. When the average person thinks tractor they think green and you can't stand it. PS is a JD class, if you don't like it, watch a different class. When you build a IH PS that wins then you can judge Rob Russell, until then STFU. |
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Re: D2
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Billet Binder 2019
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I guess we are not average  ,.....maybe below? 
It's gonna be a interesting year,...………...Good luck to all in our class!! |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 02/21/2012 Posts: 797 |
You haven't met me, have you...? LOL I just don't post threads about it. John Murray Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama. Watch LGP on YouTube Like LGP on Facebook
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Re: D2
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
A 5.9 is the factory replacement for a 8n ford so why not .The 5.9 has replaced a lot of engines because there's not many companies casting there own |
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Re: D2
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Registered: 07/27/2017 Posts: 184 |
This was kind of why I asked if D2 was green or red. Huge props to the D2 team for being dominant with a red block. Lot of respect for people who go against the grain and make it work. Cut me open, and I bleed green, but I love competition and D2 is good for that class and good for the sport.
That said, I'll be at Hutchinson cheering for Oldens/Raymond/Roger Peterson to jump up and take the win in DSS |
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