Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class June 30, 2019 01:34PM
This is written from the perspective of a fan. I freely admit not having skin in the game (aka- owning a vehicle or business that supplies parts). However, like everyone else, this year has been a big concern with #s, especially in the DSS class. Dick Morgan posted a couple years ago combining the classes is the best thing NTPA could do, and he's right. It would be a big hit...... if the pullers could put egos aside. This is a long thread, but these are stream-of-conscious thoughts about both limits on classes, and combining the heavy diesel and alcohol SS at a Grand National level again. For purposes of this discussion, my starting hypothesis is the best thing for the long-term health of the Grand National Heavy Super Stock class is a reunification of the alcohol and diesel tractors.

This is repeating thoughts from prior posts, but for those who think combining different types of vehicles will not work, I would point you to NHRA. For those of you not familiar with NHRA, the most obvious parallels to the alcohol/diesel SS divide in heads-up, non-index classes would be Top Alcohol Dragster which mixes blown alcohol and injected nitro cars, Pro Modified which mixes blown alcohol, turbocharged, and nitrous cars, and Pro Stock Motorcycle, which finds a way to mix the Suzuki-type bikes with the Harleys, which have different engines..

The important thing is, the rules are made so each type has the ability to be competitive. For example, in Top Alcohol Dragster, the % of nitro has been changed over the years. A drop of even 1 or 2% of nitro can be enough to even things out. For Pro Modified and Pro Stock Motorcycle, I don't know all the rule tweaks but I do know they've made changes to vehicle weight (and blower overdrive in Pro Mods).

I'm going to mention Full Pull Productions and East Coast Pullers for pulling examples. FPP has a Run-What-You-Brung FWD class that is very entertaining, mixing Super Modified FWDs, Modified FWDs, Super Stock diesel FWD, and I believe also some 3.6 Pro Stock Diesel FWD, other types of diesel and alcohol or gas trucks, and even one guy that run nitrous in his pulling truck. Last year they added TWDs. I don't know the weight and hitch heights for each different type, but they make it work. Different types of trucks win all the time. Also, both FPP and East Coast run a combo 9500 SS/10000 PS class. Bottom line- even in pulling, combining different types of pulling vehicles has and is currently done successfully.

The overarching thought process can be translated to pulling: IE- find a package where the diesel tractors and alcohol tractors are on a theoretically level playing field. In a perfect world, we would run heads-up like in the mid-90s and prior. This may not be a perfect world, however, which is why the factors below come into play.

Factors that must be considered:

1) While people criticize the NTPA Open Supers, they are in better shape thus far in 2019 than the diesels. Since there are talks of limits, the first discussion item before any combining of classes is which divisions need limits (or both)? NTPA started the ball rolling this year in the Open SS class by making the 903s not legal.
What should be done with diesels? Should the Diesel SS restrictor plate idea be revisited? I've read other suggestions that may have merit. The class is too expensive, and it's time for NTPA to assume a leadership position and take steps before there is no longer enough to have a class. Only when the topic of what limitations are to be introduced is decided, can the next step of unifying the classes really be done imo.

2) Jake Morgan has mentioned this several times over the years, but you must start your rules factoring the BEST of both varieties, not the average. For current NTPA rules, I will omit the 903 alkies since as of 2019, they are no longer legal. This means on the alcohol side, look at the GALOT and Lustik tractors; on the diesel side, Ross and Blagrave come to mind. How far apart are these tractors at this time from being able to run even at the same sled setting? This is where the input of sled operators comes into play.

One important caveat when factoring Item 1 above is, if there are limitations added for either fuel type, then what is the "best" with the new rules? I would think the pullers and sled operators would have a good idea about what each fuel type should be able to do, either with no changes or new limitations.

3) Which factors may be used to create an equalizing formula if it's decided one is needed? Vehicle weight and hitch height are several, but there may be others just as effective. If, after any new rules for diesels and alkies, there is a thought that one combination would have an advantage heads-up, what are practical (and relatively inexpensive) ways to equalize so that the best of each fuel type can run competitive with each other.

4) Flexibility is important. NASCAR made tweaks to the various brands, and NHRA has done the same. If Rick Feicht reads this, he can clarify if the RWYB truck class has had tweaks over the years. If one type starts to dominate, then the organization has to have flexibility to make quick changes, which weight or hitch height seem to be two quick ones. One other thing is to not overreact. Sometimes a puller just has a perfect pass. If someone wins by 20 feet for 3 straight weekends, then that is a pattern. If someone wins by 20 feet for one hook, it's not (yet).

5). Finally, where the rubber hits the road. If the above is implemented, what will the pullers do? From reading other's posts, it seems the Diesel guys would have the most pushback. Any puller could 1) adapt to whatever new rules are and run the class; 2) move to another org, Some guys west of the Mississippi may run Outlaws; some may approach PPL about adding DSS as a Champions Tour class (I would not be shocked if they tried this), and others may throw in the towel and quit.

I can't say what each puller would do. I can say, when one Super National event has only 5 or 6 tractors make the call for the second session, and the second event only gets 6 to show up at all, it's time to make changes. There is not much difference to me between a 5 tractor class and no class..... because in a year or two, no promoter is going to bother to book the 5 tractor class anyway. See the Open SS for example.... only 3 events this year, though #s are a little better.

6) Money. If some limits were added and the class unified, and if both types of fuel are adequately represented, then in that case every GN promoter will want the class. If that happens, NTPA needs to find courage to say NO!!! and limit the class to a set number of events (only multi-day) and stick to it, and raise the purse and even perhaps allow more than 10 precommits if they keep the precommit program (which is another topic for another day). This reunified class needs to have an appropriate purse (aka- really, really good).

7) NTPA needs to exert more influence over their states. The states need to exert more influence over their own schedules. Case in point- if you are not in Connersville, IN, you will not see a Heavy SS hook in the state of Indiana. Were it not the home of Chris Gettinger and the Peiffers, there would likely be no HSS hooks. There are 4 HSS hooks in all of Region 2. We can talk all we want about the Grand National circuit, but NTPA is absolutely killing themselves at their roots by choking out the class. If I ran a HSS tractor, why would I want to join HSTPA for 2 hooks? Why would I want to join NTPA? Work with your promoters to schedule the class. Even if several Light Pros jump in to get a little extra purse, I'd rather see that to give the true SS tractors a place to run than to have no SS class at all.

If common-sense limits were put in place, that could entice pullers to run the class. If a common-sense formula for combining alcohol and diesel SS were found, that may entice both types to participate, and if any limits were reasonable, perhaps some of the state/regional level SS may run at a GN hook in their area, like it used to be. It is early in 2019, and we may see 20 DSS and OSS at Bowling Green and wonder what the fuss is about, but at the moment, things do not look good.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2019 01:54PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class June 30, 2019 05:06PM
Combine DSS and alcohol SS, and watch no DSS show up.
History WILL repeat.
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class June 30, 2019 11:58PM
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Fact checker
Combine DSS and alcohol SS, and watch no DSS show up.
History WILL repeat.

If that's true, then the DSS pullers will have played a major role in the death of their class. I hope folks can set aside their vehicles to both
1) see the need for limits, and
2) find a formula for combining into one class.

Two separate issues but if there will be any diesel SS tractors at a national level in 10 tears, both are needed.
Dr. Strange ran millions of pulling scenarios and said to save diesel super stocks, this is the only way (long term).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2019 12:00AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class July 01, 2019 05:47AM
Doesn't death of the diesel class happen immediately when you make it an alcohol class?
It is already legal for the diesel guys to pull SSO.
You are not combining the diesel and alcohol class, you are killing the diesel class and telling the diesel guys they can run SSO if they want to keep pulling.
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class July 01, 2019 06:37AM
That's a dead class if there ever was one!
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class July 01, 2019 02:00AM
Just my 2 cents. Not only super stock classes, but all levels of pulling classes are in danger of extinction due to the high cost involved in building a tractor that has the ability to actually win a pull against the best in the class. Look at how even brush pulling has dropped in numbers. People get frustrated when they spend , and many cases beyond their budget and still can't reach the top. I really do not have a cure all answer however it appears to me that money is the root of all evil, and it has reared its ugly head on our sport of tractor pulling for sure. There is no way anyone can deny that this is not what is happening. Not only with the big boys, but at all levels. Just putting this out there to raise awareness with what I believe to be the biggest problem in pulling today.
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class July 01, 2019 05:02AM
just my opinion - said it right cost will be the death of the sport all together.. honestly, and yes some people the price to play will never affect at all and that's good for them but to the average Joe it's become unobtainable at almost any level of the sport even if your doing the work yourself parts are spendy then in two months the parts are outdated junk and your getting your butt kicked again
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class July 01, 2019 05:52AM
Is every one supposed to reach the top?
Short people have a hard time reaching the "Top" in the NBA, I dont hear any one trying to level the playing ground there.
NBA needs to lower the basket and make the balls smaller to make fair.
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class July 01, 2019 06:11AM
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Reaching the top
Is every one supposed to reach the top?
Short people have a hard time reaching the "Top" in the NBA, I dont hear any one trying to level the playing ground there.
NBA needs to lower the basket and make the balls smaller to make fair.

Aren't you a witty person? The first DSS hook, 1/2 broke. The last 3 DSS hooks, you can could count the # of tractors that ran on one hand. The NBA has hundreds of guys for a dozen spots per team. All teams will have full rosters. DSS may have guys who signed a worthless Precommit contract, but on the track, their "roster" is paper thin.

If DSS is the "top" based on the last 3 hooks, it's the top of only 5 or 6 vehicles.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2019 06:27AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class July 01, 2019 07:04AM
I think we were referring to
" People get frustrated when they spend , and many cases beyond their budget and still can't reach the top."
Not DSS being the top.
Nothing witty about it.
Offer $100,000,000 contracts and you will find you have " hundreds of guys for a dozen spots" in the SSD and SSO classes both.
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Re: Roadmap to unifying the Super Stock class July 01, 2019 07:30AM
reaching the top - glad your so smart thanks for that enlightening comment jeez so blessed by that today - go ahead and blow your wad on your pulling rig to get that $7 first place trophy or if your lucky $200 first place check that won't even cover your fuel to get to the pull and back and yes the fans will really love seeing two to five tractors/trucks in a class because all the others are broke or other pullers don't want to spend the money to compete anymore or fix their machine when they do break down, what do you think that means, pulling promoters won't book that class anymore due to low numbers which leads to low crowd or fan numbers which leads to a sad slow death of pulling so that's why some are fighting for changes to the rules or hp limits to put and end to this but I'm often afraid it's way too late already
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diesels can already run the ulss July 01, 2019 07:09AM
The diesels can already run the open super and those competitors with a DSS choose not to. There has never been a rule stating a DSS can’t run. The question isn’t should classes be combined. WPI/NTPA needs to start asking the pullers why don’t you support us? Texas has a better showing of DSS than NTPA. Why would guys who live less than an hour from the pull go to Texas instead? Why does PPL have zero problem getting ULSS numbers? Limits are part of the discussion but the bigger question is why don’t pullers support NTPA anymore?

As far as everything else: 2 OPTIONS
1. Do nothing and let the class die.
2. Have a build to year (2021) and implement some restrictions.

I see both as a lose lose. You let it die it’s obvious what will happen. You put restrictions in and pullers will park em aka throw a fit.

If you let it die, allow components in the light pro and make that your new GN class.

The SS class in general is dying in the NTPA. R2 has 5 hooks total between the light and heavy supers. The problem goes much deeper than just GN pulling. It comes back to why have pullers quit supporting NTPA, at least in the SS class. That is the first discussion to be had.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 01, 2019 08:11AM
to 1979er mess with light pro and components and wreck another CLASS !!!!!
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 01, 2019 11:44AM
To 1979er your last paragraph hits the nail hard on the head. That’s all I will comment
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 01, 2019 02:30PM
All the knock off classes are already going in the same direction as there predecessors that's why we have so many classes LP,LLSS, HOT FARMS ,PRO FARMS ALL OF THEM LSS cost to much in the 90s so we started the llss class on and on its already came to a 5000 dollar turbo and a 9 thousand dollar set of tires or stay home
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 04:06AM
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Lewis Conner
All the knock off classes are already going in the same direction as there predecessors that's why we have so many classes LP,LLSS, HOT FARMS ,PRO FARMS ALL OF THEM LSS cost to much in the 90s so we started the llss class on and on its already came to a 5000 dollar turbo and a 9 thousand dollar set of tires or stay home

Spot on, they are all to expensive.
And then there is the fact that you can build 2 competitive SSD pullers for the cost of one new farm tractor.
We have more than enough pulling tractors out there, we just have too many classes and now every one wants to do crazy stuff and try to combine them.
If you force the diesels to run with the alcohol tractors they will have to run alcohol to compete.So just eliminate the diesels and get it over with if the fans want to see alcohol.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 04:52AM
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I agree with Lewis ?
We have more than enough pulling tractors out there, we just have too many classes and now every one wants to do crazy stuff and try to combine them.
If you force the diesels to run with the alcohol tractors they will have to run alcohol to compete.So just eliminate the diesels and get it over with if the fans want to see alcohol.

Not following your logic. You say there are too many classes. Yoy then say in the same sentence it's "crazy stuff' to combine them. Combining the Super Stock class is the one thing that would generate lots of interest from the people who buy the tickets.... without whom, there is no pull.

Re-read the first post of this thread. I didn't say combine in a free-for-all, though I think there is not more than a one or two block difference now (if that) between a top DSS and Open SS.

I did suggest setting limits to help control costs, then finding a workable formula to combine classes, whether weight, hitch height, or other factors. If the DSS pullers still won't play ball, that's their choice. Nowdays even if a decent number show up for the first hook, which is becoming rare, how many are able to make the second hook?



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2019 06:40AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 07:55AM
I believe that most everyone in pulling already realizes that the diesel can hook in with the alcohol Supers. The point is that they need to combine the classes because there's not legitimate numbers in either one. Everybody says they're waiting on parts or this or that but it's been the same story for the last 10 years, numbers are dropping in both classes.I have talked to pullers and received emails from puller's and builders that are 100% in favor of combining the classes. I realize some of the diesel guys would be hesitant but they need to take a good hard look at their show and stop pretending that it's going to be better next week, it is not. I believe that history proves the point that numbers are dwindling and both classes, and for those that think that the top diesel cannot run with the alcohol from the numbers that we are hearing from the diesel guys I believe that to be a fallacy. I believe that on certain tracks alcohol will have the advantage and on certain tracks diesel will have the advantage but overall I think that the show would be pretty darn competitive. Or we can just go on as business as usual and wonder what happened, where did it go.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 08:23AM
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The Original Michael

We have more than enough pulling tractors out there, we just have too many classes and now every one wants to do crazy stuff and try to combine them.
If you force the diesels to run with the alcohol tractors they will have to run alcohol to compete.So just eliminate the diesels and get it over with if the fans want to see alcohol.

Not following your logic. You say there are too many classes. Yoy then say in the same sentence it's "crazy stuff' to combine them. Combining the Super Stock class is the one thing that would generate lots of interest from the people who buy the tickets.... without whom, there is no pull.

Re-read the first post of this thread. I didn't say combine in a free-for-all, though I think there is not more than a one or two block difference now (if that) between a top DSS and Open SS.

I did suggest setting limits to help control costs, then finding a workable formula to combine classes, whether weight, hitch height, or other factors. If the DSS pullers still won't play ball, that's their choice. Nowdays even if a decent number show up for the first hook, which is becoming rare, how many are able to make the second hook?

The logic is the diesels cant run with the alcohol, why does every one want to see the alcohol beat the diesels?
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 10:20AM
A DSS will not be competitive with an OSS. The DSS will break before the end of the season. A DSS has no traction control. You can not tune a diesel to come out of the hole soft for so long and then apply the power slowly and limit rpm. Yes on some tracks a diesels torque will help. But not on very many.

If diesel and alcohol truly were even, why are there no diesels left in LSS?

That's just how I see it. Not saying anyone is totally wrong.

But it is after 5 and it's time for a beer!
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 12:52PM
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Smoke Fan
If diesel and alcohol truly were even, why are there no diesels left in LSS?

Since you mentioned it, I believe that Esdon was the last truly competitive diesel in the class (on a national level).
Four GN wins and finishing second in the points in 2010 behind Excessive Force, but ahead of Considered...


John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
Watch LGP on YouTube
Like LGP on Facebook


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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 03:04PM
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Smoke Fan
A DSS will not be competitive with an OSS. The DSS will break before the end of the season. A DSS has no traction control. You can not tune a diesel to come out of the hole soft for so long and then apply the power slowly and limit rpm. Yes on some tracks a diesels torque will help. But not on very many.

If diesel and alcohol truly were even, why are there no diesels left in LSS?

As Dick Morgan pointed out, I'm not entirely sure the first sentence in the quote is totally correct. However, the costs have gotten to be such that hypothetically assuming the top diesels can be competitive under current rules heads up, how long will they stay together? Your second sentence has proven accurate thus far. A fair number have broken after only one or two hooks. Even at the Outlaws hook last weekend, half were broken after Session 1.

Degenhardt can run competitive in LSS. It's also very expensive to run that hard. That's why imo NTPA (maybe joined by Outlaws) can come together to set some type of limitation on the DSS (and Open SS if they feel it's needed), then find a way with weight, hitch height, other factors, or a combination thereof, and combine the classes so that both sides can be competitive running together with whatever limits can be agreed on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2019 03:31PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 02:57PM
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I agree with Lewis ?
The logic is the diesels cant run with the alcohol, why does every one want to see the alcohol beat the diesels?

Again, re-read the original post on this thread. Nobody said everyone wants to see the alcohol beat the diesels.
I proposed coming up with limits on one or both classes to help rein in costs, then on top of that finding a formula just like NHRA does with multiple classes, just like East Coast and Full Pull Productions do, and implementing that equalizing formula (if necessary after limitations are in place) so both types of fuels can run together.

If the formula needs tweaking, then make the rules to allow the sanctioning body to make adjustments as needed, with weight or hitch height being the ones that can be done most quickly with least expense.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2019 03:09PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 03, 2019 03:28AM
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The Original Michael

The logic is the diesels cant run with the alcohol, why does every one want to see the alcohol beat the diesels?

Again, re-read the original post on this thread. Nobody said everyone wants to see the alcohol beat the diesels.
I proposed coming up with limits on one or both classes to help rein in costs, then on top of that finding a formula just like NHRA does with multiple classes, just like East Coast and Full Pull Productions do, and implementing that equalizing formula (if necessary after limitations are in place) so both types of fuels can run together.

If the formula needs tweaking, then make the rules to allow the sanctioning body to make adjustments as needed, with weight or hitch height being the ones that can be done most quickly with least expense.

What you are proposing is to make the alcohol tractors back it down a couple notches so that the diesels running on kill can keep up?

How does combining the classes change anything, you get to see 10 tractors pull, not combined you get to see 5 alcohol tractors pull and the 5 diesels pull, you still got to see 10 tractors pull.

Why not combine all the diesel classes and tweak the rules so that the hot farm can be competitive with the SSD, Im sure the fans would love to see a hot farm beat a SSD.

The problem isn't the SS class, the problem is like Lewis said, pulling is to expensive.
NfL fans will $100 or more per at the gate, pulling fans are sneaking in so that dont have to pay $20.
The SS competitors are some of the most passionate dedicated guys in the sport the amount of time and sacrifices they put into pulling is insane.
But all anyone on this board wants to do is complain about not getting their moneys $20 worth of entertainment out of them.
I am sure most all of the SS guys would like to come up with something to help the classes grow, but dragging every one at the top down to the bottom so its fair for everyone kinda makes all the hard work seem not worth it.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 05, 2019 05:26PM
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I sgree with Lewis?
What you are proposing is to make the alcohol tractors back it down a couple notches so that the diesels running on kill can keep up?

How does combining the classes change anything, you get to see 10 tractors pull, not combined you get to see 5 alcohol tractors pull and the 5 diesels pull, you still got to see 10 tractors pull.

The problem isn't the SS class, the problem is like Lewis said, pulling is to expensive.

No, that's not what I'm proposing. Did you even read the multiple times I've suggested setting linits on the diesels, then find a workable compromis?

You assume that automatically means taking more away from alcohol tractors. Perhaps after limits ( restrictor plate or whatever is decided) the diesels could be given weight and more hitch without changing the alkies much at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2019 05:28PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 06, 2019 04:28AM
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The Original Michael

What you are proposing is to make the alcohol tractors back it down a couple notches so that the diesels running on kill can keep up?

How does combining the classes change anything, you get to see 10 tractors pull, not combined you get to see 5 alcohol tractors pull and the 5 diesels pull, you still got to see 10 tractors pull.

The problem isn't the SS class, the problem is like Lewis said, pulling is to expensive.

No, that's not what I'm proposing. Did you even read the multiple times I've suggested setting linits on the diesels, then find a workable compromis?

You assume that automatically means taking more away from alcohol tractors. Perhaps after limits ( restrictor plate or whatever is decided) the diesels could be given weight and more hitch without changing the alkies much at all.
Any limits you put on the diesels drops them below the pro stock and the light super classes which makes the SSD redundant/obsolete.
When you limit both SSD and SSO you move the light supers to the premier class and then they go through the same growing pains and start loosing #s.
SSD cant run with Alcohol, time/money/HP, why run diesel and be stuck in the middle of the pack when you can spend less time and money and run alcohol and run up front?
When you have to make all these adustments/ jump through hoops to run in a class your tractor isnt built for, why not just build for the class you are going to run in, in this case alcohol.
When you combine the classes you put the last nail in the coffin for SSD, which may not matter in todays economy any way so it may be a" moo point".
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 09:38AM
Keep them separate for one more year, but at Tomah and Bowling Green run them on the same shows, same track and sled settings. Back to back. Let the numbers speak for themselves.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 02, 2019 05:24PM
They can run together now but choose not to. Doesn't that mean they don't want to compete against the other fuel? In the same sentence as "combine" you should also be saying "change". Because that's also the reality of your concept. One of the classes is going to have to make changes that are going to limit the potential of their tractor. I also just can't understand the fascination with combined fuels. Grand national should be the best of the best on an evening playing field. I can't get excited knowing the best rig lost because a rule gave the other guy an advantage.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 03, 2019 03:25PM
Hi,
In keeping with what "5288" suggested, how about this:
For the 2020 season, the NTPA runs the alcohol and diesel Super Stocks at the same time, in the same "class", on the same track, and with the same sled setting.
But, they keep the payouts and points separated.
This way, the fans will see all of them run together in the same "class" but the pullers will still get the $$$ and points for their respective classes.

I think this would give the fans a better show, but it would also show the NTPA and the pullers how close the two classes are in performance and maybe pry the door open for discussions on how to tweak the rules so the two classes can be made into one.


Anyway, just my 2 cents...


Later . . . . . . .
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DO IT AT THE ENDERLE July 04, 2019 01:11AM
Let them run in their respective classes that they received their bid for.
Then have a SS final, top two diesels vs top two alcohols.
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Re: DO IT AT THE ENDERLE July 04, 2019 01:57PM
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1979er
Let them run in their respective classes that they received their bid for.
Then have a SS final, top two diesels vs top two alcohols.


There's only 2 top SSO"s in NTPA Drinking
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Re: DO IT AT THE ENDERLE July 05, 2019 05:00PM
Another thread on here about how they should start adding limits to the dss class because it's out of control. How close will they be to an alky if that happens?
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 05, 2019 05:15PM
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Grubby
They can run together now but choose not to. Doesn't that mean they don't want to compete against the other fuel? In the same sentence as "combine" you should also be saying "change". Because that's also the reality of your concept. One of the classes is going to have to make changes that are going to limit the potential of their tractor. I also just can't understand the fascination with combined fuels. Grand national should be the best of the best on an evening playing field. I can't get excited knowing the best rig lost because a rule gave the other guy an advantage.

Another thread on here about how they should start adding limits to the dss class because it's out of control. How close will they be to an alky if that happens?/quote]

Only 6 DSS attended at Rockwell and only 4 made the secong hook. You are correct about combine and change. I've only said it 4 or 5 times already on this thread. In a perfect world , the classes could comtinue as usual. We no longer live in that world.

Depending on what limits are decided under my proposal, the alcohol side may not need to make many changes. For example, if the diesels had restrictor plates, maybe they could get 8500 lbs and a little more hitch ( or alcohol an inch less). There are ways to make disparate fuels roughly equal, even with limits.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2019 12:23AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: diesels can already run the ulss July 06, 2019 04:27PM
The only real answer to save the class is let it goI I do agree there should be a end of the year showdown the top four of each of the fuels while there's still a few left
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Saving it July 07, 2019 01:37AM
The best way to save DSS or any other class, is getting some advertising money. Any other motorsport with this kind of investment, generally comes with some advertising dollars. If we can get some money flowing back into our sport, that would be the best for everyone in my opinion.
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Re: Saving it July 07, 2019 05:19AM
ANSWER THIS who gets the advertising money In the past from everything I've seen the club gets the money the puller gets the little sticker to stick on the side of there tractor which does help to cover up scratches and old battle scars
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Re: Saving it July 07, 2019 06:07AM
I'd like to know the numbers. NHRA and Motocross and other motorsports can make it a profitable gig. I think in tractor pulling part of the problem is there isn't much focus on the drivers. The other leagues create drama by creating rivalries and having fans pick a side and have a vested interest. You don't really see that in tractor pulling.
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Re: Saving it July 07, 2019 06:48AM
Maybe they need to start charging $50-$100 admission like other forms of entertainment and actually pay the pullers for the show they are providing.
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Re: Saving it July 07, 2019 07:43AM
Tractor pulling is mostly used to fill in one night at the local county fair So there will never be any big payouts know big admission fees to help payouts and could go back to a handshake and a trophy
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Re: Saving it July 08, 2019 04:13AM
Quote
NewGen4010
I'd like to know the numbers. NHRA and Motocross and other motorsports can make it a profitable gig. I think in tractor pulling part of the problem is there isn't much focus on the drivers. The other leagues create drama by creating rivalries and having fans pick a side and have a vested interest. You don't really see that in tractor pulling.
Tide puts their name on the side of a nascar car and it is on camera for 4 to 5 hrs, the spectators in the stands see it once per lap all day long.
Tide puts their name on a pulling tractor and the spectators bitch if the tractor is on the track for 17 seconds.
How much money should Tide pay to have their name in front off 5000 people for 12 seconds, and have the chance that the spectators get angry because it was on the track for to long .
There is no money in pulling because there is no sponsorship, there is no sponsorship because there is no money in it for the sponsors.
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Re: Saving it July 08, 2019 05:25AM
While I understand the point you are trying to make, I would argue that any exposure is good advertising. When something makes you angry, it often times sticks in your head = power of advertising.
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Re: Saving it July 08, 2019 06:01AM
Lewis I was VP of MSPA for 2 years, and we raised a great deal of sponsor money, and 95% or better went to the Points fund and was paid out to Pullers for competing in the series. So the sticker you put on earned you money if you ran the series, in the bigger series there is much more overhead and its not that simple, but I wouldn't be surprised if 50% or more goes back to competitors. PPL wise more than 50% because Lucas puts in a bunch of their money too...


BB
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Re: Saving it July 08, 2019 11:00AM
How far back did it go .Most gets the stickers Sorry i apologize i forgot the smaller classes with 5to10 participants could do a little more sharing and all get a taste but the classes with bigger numbers gets the stickers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2019 11:09AM by Lewis Conner.
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