05:47:35pm, Thursday, May 02, 2024
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Building Pulling's Future
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longtimer
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Jake, is your young son getting attuned to tractor pulling?
What does he like about pulling? And not like? It is his generation that we need to raise up to be the next fans and pullers. What do we need to do to structure pulling in the near future so it has a healthy future for 'him' in 20 years? |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Somebody better start making a good video game to play on a I PHONE AND ADD LASERS AND ROCKET LAUNCHERS TO THEM |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 07/24/2019 Posts: 33 |
yes why can't they make a good 1? |
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LLSS into the NFMS
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We need to get the LLSS into Louisville. I firmly believe this will save the sport of tractor pulling as we know it and would also provide nap time during the show. If they don't allow the 3.6 turbos on the diesels the class is doomed anyway so it doesn't really matter. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
My son loves ALL farm and construction equipment. He asks me almost every day when I'm going to borrow someones backhoe or tractor again. We went to the NTPA pull at Langford as a family and he just wanted to walk the pits as look at equipment. Every time I stopped to talk the kids would get so antsy, they just wanted to walk and look at stuff, and William just wanted to see every single tractor there.
He likes watching the pull, but he loves the equipment. Like all kids he got pretty bored in between hooks; once you've seen the roller and scraper a few times the excitement wears off. There's just so much down time at an event and you can see just how bored kids get. Thankfully we had top row seats at Langford right next to Pulloff.com user Ben Murray so at least William got to look down into the pits between hooks like I did when I was a kid. The show was pretty efficiently run this year but pulling still needs to speed up the time between hooks. We need some outside the box thinking to make the show run faster (even the most efficient events still need to get better and better). We're not a huge electronics family; I don't like video games, my kids haven't ever played video games, they have some cheap kindle fire tablets but they never get them in the Summer and sporadically in the Spring and Fall. Even though I run this site I don't spend much other time on a computer (or my phone), I don't do Facebook or Twitter or Instagram... I don't even text! (seriously, I've never sent a text) Despite all of that I think the sport need to embrace some electronic technology more and more. Tuning an engine with a laptop or phone app needs to come to the sport soon. We don't use typewriters anymore for a reason and we need to embrace change and "new" technology in pulling. Especially any OEM technology that is currently illegal (like overhead cams, multi-valve heads, electronic injection, etc...) You can't even hook a new bone stock farm tractor to a sled in a class like Superfarm! That makes zero sense. My son loves all things mechanical but he's so used to things that are electronic so he'll just expect those things in every part of his life. We need to start expecting them pulling too. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
Well said Jake. I've seen a Hot Stock puller that is doing some electronic tuning. It's going to be interesting to see how this tractor keeps developing HP. I truly think it's the new direction pulling should be going. Why is the pulling world so against it ? |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
The cost of change. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
I don't think it's the cost of change, but rather the fear of the unknown. Most pullers are better at understanding mechanical components than electronic ones. That scares a ton of guys. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 494 |
In my opinion, cost of change is a moot point. If you are happy with your current setup why would you want to change? No one says you have to adopt any "new-fangled" technology. JW |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Jim,. the problem is that pulling doesn't allow a lot of the new technology. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Just me
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The club I pull with started a small tire mini rod class a couple of years ago and everyone wanted to keep the cost under control. I asked about fuel injection and was met with a big no Because of cost. I could have used an ls motor with fuel injection and got more power out of if cheaper than I built a carbureted small block chevy. But that’s just my two cents |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Lewis
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Dick how can you say pulling don’t allow new technology these are suppose to be tractors not space shuttles if so let’s go nuclear power it’s berry old technology but not being used how many tractors have you seen plowing running alcohol hilborn fuel injection sigma pumps 3 or 4 turbos the list goes on and on technology that don’t even apply old man jd would flip to se today’s modern pulling tractors a couple thousand horse power out of something that started out as 85 |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Lewis
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Now to answer just me 70 percent of all the classes we have are a knock off of some class that got to exspensive then don’t take this personal someone like you comes and wants to change it more power equals more cost from one end of your machine to the other such as gears frames rods cranks and on and on why do you think it was made a small tire class it wasn’t because larger tires cost a couple hundred more it’s to cut down on breakage if you can’t tune your carb to run with everyone else what makes you think you can tune the fuel injection better pullers is the ones that destroys there own class |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 02/08/2014 Posts: 406 |
I'm not sure it would make pulling more expensive. I would think electric tuning would give pullers the opportunity it does in drag racing a chance to tune up or down to save an engine on a difficult track or put some more power in on a good track. The basic pulling tire evolves and pullers have been spending big dollars just to have the "best" tire. Pullers spent money very wisely buying data loggers and after having one I wouldn't be without it. If you want to build a new model tractor it's going backwards to put a P-pump on it. If you look at some farm stock or hot stock rules it wouldn't be illegal to do that. Have to run stock fuel system. So if we don't move with the times then at some point we have to move back in time to be legal. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Ford fan
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I also agree that allowing efi would make pulling more expensive. A good data logger, fuel system, ignition system is still expensive. EFI would allow all those systems to be Controlled with one box. Remember electronic is only as good as the person typing the keys,and this is a motorsport in the dirt. You still have to have knowledge of the track conditions and how to set up your tractor weather it be tuning software or changing pills and jets, it still takes a person to do so. EFI is not a magical box that you bolt on and you have a winning tractor that does not break, it takes knowledge and experience. Currently a lot of pullers are spending thousands of dollars on dyno time to have a professional tune there engine. Should that be illegal? |
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Re: question for Lewis
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Lewis, what is the problem with allowing (not mandating, just allowing) EFI? Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2019 12:38AM by The Original Michael. |
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Re: question for Lewis
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Holley
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If EFI was the cure all then why hasn’t the top levels of drag racing done it? The Pro Mod guys are trying but have found it to still melt pistons on a regular basis. The turbo cars are the only ones that pushed for it. Apparently their weight advantage wasn’t enough. Once again, “if you can’t beat them on the track, change the rules.” |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 12/19/2010 Posts: 163 |
Bandit, then why is your NTPA board so scared of change? Example component chassis for all classes? |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
All change isn't good. That would be a change that I think would do much more harm than good. Component chassis for all classes is needed as much as nitromethane for all classes. A component chassis makes sense for some classes. The extremely high horsepower classes are logical, but a component Superfarm? Why? Are they constantly tearing up rearends? Are they struggling to make weight? No! Light Pro are right at the edge of needing a component chassis but I don't think they are needed yet (they don't seem to be tearing them up all that often, and if built right they should have plenty of front end weight). If the horsepower can be kept in check then they don't need them either. They aren't needed for Limited Pro either, and they don't need them for Light Limited Superstock. The more "tractor" we can keep in those classes the more fans can relate to them. The further we get from "tractors" the worse off the sport is. We need to put more OEM in the classes, not less! Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 12/19/2010 Posts: 163 |
Thanks Jake for answering for someone else. I forgot, how much knowledge that you have acquired in the sport of tractor pulling. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 2,526 |
Nobody said EFI, Multi-valve heads, OHC, etc... were cure all's. Would they be cheaper? Sometimes. Would they be more expensive? Sometimes. You can sink as much or as little money into ANY different type of technology that your wallet allows. It's about options and allowing modern tractors to be able to compete. It's all about what needs to be done to keep the next generation interested in the sport. It's not about making a bunch of old guys have a mechanical safe space like a bunch of whiny teens. Some guys will stay completely mechanical, some guys will have electronics everywhere, and some guys will find a mix in the middle. There will be guys that can make all of those combinations run at the top. There wall be guys that melt their engines down no matter what setup they run.
Let's look at our most tractor-like class... Superfarm was supposed to be as close to a farm tractor as possible while still being a performance vehicle. Yet you can't hook many (hardly any) modern farm tractors in the Superfarm class because much of their technolgy isn't legal. There was a day when you could take a brand new tractor that's never seen a field and make it into a pulling tractor with a few upgrades. Now you can't even find a class to hook in because your modern motor isn't legal anywhere. That's as bass-ackwards as you can get. If it's an OEM factory part it should be legal in this sport in all classes. And Lewis, don't give me that tired. old argument about 4-turbos, alcohol, Hilborn pumps, Sigma pumps, etc... Those are all just examples of a shiny new typewriter or a brand new steam engine (yes, they still make new and updated versions of both those things). Pulling is just using updated or bigger versions of very, very old technology. They're new but they aren't new technology. This sport is stuck in the mid-1980's with slightly new materials, slightly new designs, and new manufacturing process of the same old parts. A billet injection pump for example is just a bigger version of a old, old, old design that's bigger and has more aggressive characteristics made with a different process or out of different material. It's as revolutionary as going from a goose down pillow to a memory foam pillow. If the sport wants to attract more youth then it need to get out of the mid-1980's rut we're stuck in. Jake Morgan Owner, PULLOFF.COM Independent Pulling News This page is a free service. The cost is covered out of my pocket. It takes a great deal of time and a fair amount of money to keep this website going. Donations for: photos, classified ads, forum discussion, etc... are appreciated. Side Note: We are no longer accepting PayPal donations. They have changed their terms of service and stated they would fine PayPal users for spreading "misinformation" and "hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory". PayPal did not provide definitions for some of these vague terms. Woke corporate policies regarding "misinformation" could result in an automatic fine of $2,500 which would have been removed directly from the customer’s PayPal account. PayPal did backdown from some of their policies but quietly implemented portions of them in later terms of service. A financial institute has no right to monitor social media accounts or speech. This is unacceptable and I'll no longer do business with PayPal. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 07/14/2011 Posts: 59 |
Hi,
Jake, I agree. I've been saying for years that it doesn't make sense that I can't take my new farm tractor to the county fair and pull it, because it has a factory intercooler and electronic injection... To not allow the modern tractors to pull would be like going back to the 1960's and banning those "new-fangled turbo supercharger gadgets" and to this day only pulling NA vehicles... Later . . . . . . . |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Where is the line
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Where do you draw the line?
A new farm tractor cost more that a new Unlimited mod / SSD / SSO / take your pick. Lots of guys farming with Quad Trac / 4wd with duals front and rear/ 40,000lbs + Can we run a 9420R in the farm stock class? |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 110 |
Guys,
If you were at Hillsboro Wisconsin last weekend, you would see as I did Pulling is alive and well! Campers doubling every year, Venue is amazing (Thank You Don Slama and Crew) Pullers are happy, and a diverse group! Noticed some younger Guys and Gals and second Generations stepping up! Build it and they will come! Give fans and Competitors Great Venues, they will come, watch BG this week, will be amazing. This rule that rule, yeah we all have opinions and wants and wishes, but at this moment all that is needed is for the Farm Economy to snap back, its hard to invest money in Pulling when your business isn't good! Its hard to feel like leaving your business to go spend fuel and parts money when the Farm is struggling making rent and equipment payments. And more than just Farming, many in the Industrial sector are seeing a flat year in 2019, not terrible but not great either! How you make your livelihood has to come first! BB |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
Bob, that's one of the problems with this sport today. We take the two best pulls of the year Hillsboro and Bowling Green and we base our evaluation those two shows. Those are the exception not the rule.When I look at some other shows I see empty stands, low numbers and tractor turn out that is not great So there is a problem, luckily we have great shows that help fill the void of shows that are struggling. I couldn't agree with you more agricultural economy and other factors are playing into the sports health and welfare. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2019 02:53AM by Dick Morgan. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
After getting a call from a very good friend of mine I realize that I've kind of missed the major point of this whole post of mine. There is a reason that those two shows are great, it's all about leadership Don & company and the blue shirts do a great job of organizing the show making sure that the fans get top quality entertainment making sure that the pullers are taken care of and respected. Gordyville and Louisville are also examples of how to run a show, how to do it right. Don and the blue shirt should give classes on what makes a show work.I'm sure there's other examples of shows that are run well, starting on time keeping the time between pulls to a minimum, not blocking the view of the fans, thanking the pullers and giving them good parking good lighting etc. Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
On just last sentence Dick , I will say there are some pulls that really appreciate the pullers, but on the other hand some events charge the pullers at the gate to put on a show that the promoter has all ready paid for. I feel we are there to put this show on and spent money on are equipment to put a good show on . Make it easier to get access to the pullers for the fan that's interested . |
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Promoters charging pullers
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Registered: 07/06/2008 Posts: 1,347 |
Couldn't this be solved with language in the contract specifying pullers + X number of crew will be granted admission, in addition to hauler (not sure if pullers ever get charged to park)? If a fair or promoter tries to charge the pullers admission with such a contractual clause, the show will not go on until rectified (per language in the contract). Promoter would also agree to be liable for charges incurred for breach of contract. |
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Re: Promoters charging pullers
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Registered: 02/19/2009 Posts: 526 |
I would like to see more open pits . If that means this time to this time the fan can be in the pits. But to charge 15 dollars to the pulls plus 20 dollars for the pits is just not right if we what more interest in are sport |
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Re: Promoters charging pullers
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Registered: 02/23/2012 Posts: 542 |
Finally someone brings this up
I’ve had to pay to get in the gate pay to park and pay for pit passes for the family or they had to go set in the grandstand and then pay entry fee at a county fair definitely not a good way to get pullers to come back |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Moderator Registered: 03/25/2008 Posts: 1,446 |
You can not legislate respect and thankfulness. Either you view the pullers as subcontractors or partners. The well run organizations view ALL their pullers as partners and not just the " chosen few". Dick Morgan www.PULLOFF.com Independent Pulling News |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Paull
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Well said Dick,thank you for the maturity and overall view. |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 04/04/2016 Posts: 110 |
Dick,
Exactly, you get out of something what you put into it! Build a cheap little crappy venue and pay a base purse for 12 years in a row, with a crappy track and not be very nice to the Guys who are opening up their wallets to give you a show, don't be surprised when the turnout of Pullers is Low. I would likely go to Hillsboro even if I wasn't on the Champions Tour, its that Great of an event! Pullers put a bunch of time and money into getting their vehicles ready each week, just cleaning the Hauler and loading to go is a huge amount of work...that's times every team that shows up! Least the Promoters can do is match our efforts and invest a couple weeks prior to the event in building a track and mowing the pit...yes that simple, mow the dang pits! Have adequate parking for the Pullers, and yeah before all the promoters who wont list their names on this post bash me...Come to Springfield Tennessee on August 31, I do as I say! |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 02/21/2012 Posts: 797 |
Dick, This past weekend in Lexington, Alabama was reassuring to me that the sport of truck and tractor pulling can still pull in awesome crowds. The place hadn't had a pull in eleven years and both nights the stands were absolutely packed! I was really proud to see that and I'm glad that the promoters' hard work paid off so handsomely for them. John Murray Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama. Watch LGP on YouTube Like LGP on Facebook 
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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I think that to promote the sport there needs to be more awareness of how much these tractors are putting out. How about putting a load sensor between the tractor and the sled that records the amount of force applied? Then you could calculate the amount of work done and then power. That way, the fans would have a relative comparison between the amount of power between say, an altered farm and a 4.1. The way it is today, there is no understanding or appreciation for how much weight is in the sled box and the opposing force it makes when it get's transferred to the sled.
Mike |
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Re: Building Pulling's Future
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Registered: 10/30/2018 Posts: 749 |
Advertisement tv commercials lots of people don't even know what a tractor pull is my wife was one of those didn't have any idea what i was talking about when i mentioned tractor pulls |
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