Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 05:33AM
Looking at the ntpa proposed rules it seems as if some mini pullers are worried that Lil' Load is gonna get dialed in and kick ass! Also not wanting small block or naturally aspirated engines at super national pulls? What's the matter, afraid you'll break and they get ahead of you?
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 06:03AM
I just went through the proposed rules for NTPA and there are some interesting ideas. One that I found intreging was the turbo rule for the PS class. There is finally interest in putting a limit on turbo sizes with the mention of a " box" turbo. And I'm against outlawing the Galot mini or anyone else that choses to go down a different road. The sport needs more diversity in every class, not less.


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2019 06:06AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: The Boyd rule (unlimited proposal) August 28, 2019 07:18AM
Proposal to limit Shell Rotella Cup to precommitted pullers and limit screw blowers to 125% overdrive.

The Shell Rotella Cup is designed to be a series-within-a-series. There is nothing wrong with it as is.

I mention the Boyd Rule as I'd guess his BG performance was the inspiration for the screw blower overdrive proposal. Isn't the whole purpose of the unlimited class to make weight and run what you brung and hope you brung enough?

(as an aside, where is the proposal for the Purser rule limiting to 4 18-71s? When he gets fully dialed, isn't Uncle Sam going to have as much moxie as Boyd with whatever setup he has for his screw blowers?)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2019 07:32AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: The Boyd rule (unlimited proposal) August 28, 2019 08:46AM
I agree. If it is not deemed a safety issue for the reason to slow down screw blowers then there is no bases to do anything to them. We are an unlimited class. Start limiting it and it will become same as the light "unlimited' class
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Re: The Boyd rule (unlimited proposal) August 28, 2019 09:00AM
What about HSTPA wanting to add LLSS but not let alky tractors in? I certainly hope NTPA doesn't do that.
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Re: The Boyd rule (unlimited proposal) August 28, 2019 09:05AM
scratch that, I now see its in there with all the bs about 3.4 vs 3.0 with a map ring, figured it would be like all the rest of the options and have a separate rule.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 29, 2019 07:18AM
Can someone explain how EFI will cut down on costs? Looks to me like EFI is only helping the Nos and Turbo guys in drag racing... but it’s not helping from oil downs.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 29, 2019 07:46AM
It's actually pretty correct, it's "only helping the" ... well.. not blown guys.
The cost of EFI is really coming down to how much do you know about electronics. We have a guy here starting tractor pulling who is now a teacher for Automotive stuff, but used to be in the development at Delphi.
He soldered his own EFI system together for a 2500 hp V8. He put a pretty nice article online about what this is all about. [thebearpulling.wordpress.com]
I mind you, the budget on his tractor is about what top guys in the Unlimited spend ON ONE BLOWER.

I run EFI on my stuff, too...
I have a 1000 $ computer (which our teacher finds horribly expensive for what it actually is), that does full data logging (+ the sensors - same on your normal data logger), full ignition control (+ 75 $ per spark plug), full fuel control (in my case, 50 $ per 250 hp on injectors and the pump and hoses).
I have to tell the computer what to do and it will do what I tell it.

I would have to spend MORE on an MSD and a mechanical injection and still wouldn't have a datalogger and would spend A LONG time to set up the fuel system on my two turbo V8s.

If you don't know this stuff then of course there are some guys, that sell you a 15k system and 200 $ per hour to set it up.


Floating Finish - the German Tractor Pulling Web Show and EU Live Streams: [www.youtube.com]
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 30, 2019 01:07AM
One of the major flaws with NTPA's system of rule proposals is that the "suggestor" is not required to state their name along said suggestion. John and I were in the special meeting called on our behalf... 30 plus against 2. At that meeting we explained our situation and also agreed to share the test data with anyone who asked. This weekend in Indianapolis 4 Pro Mod cars (with ProChargers) will be running against the field to build some comparable data. We have begun the dyno testing process at our facility on our mini engine. Anyone who is interested is welcome to call and find out how its going.

What the "suggestor" does not understand is the cost of development. Many think Earl Wells foots the bill for all of the new things at GMS. While we owe much of our success to his involvement, we too have much invested. He and GALOT Motorsports have paved the way for many new projects here. We are very grateful. What Earl Wells has instilled in us most of all is that a "Team" wins... not an individual. This mini project is a "Team" effort with Earl Wells, GALOT Motorsports, GMS, Proline, ProCharger, and FuelTech (data only for the curious). We all have much invested. This is not only development for GALOT Motorsports behalf, it is for the entire sport.
I am not putting words into the "suggestors" mouth... but maybe his rule should have read this....

1.) All vehicles in mini class are required to run a Sassy hemi with MSD ignition and Janis supercharger. Must all be painted pink with flowers on the fenders. (nothing against either Sassy or Janis, only examples)

On another note... The Pro Stock class is destroying itself. Do not let a Pro Stock puller make rules for that class. Box turbo... not a good idea. A cap would be okay but do not crush the investment others have made in turbos by limiting to one supplier. Wimer's do a great job but just maybe there is something else out there coming soon.

To me, the rule suggestions are coming from those "without". Why not try to work your way the top, build a great team. Those spending the money and winning had to work hard to get where they are. As far as changes goes... its is happening all around the world. We all need to adapt to change in order to survive in the world... the pulling world included.

GALOT Motorsports will be successful with or without the ProCharger. New challenges drive us forward. Look back 6 or 7 years ago. Many on this board said "nobody will EVER beat those v8's". Whether on the NTPA or PPL side it can be done. We have a "Team" that is willing to give all it takes to win!

Brent Payne
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 30, 2019 09:19PM
I don’t like your proposal at all. Now you are leaving the MBR engines out and we won’t be able to pull. Just ridiculous, Brent. Ryan
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 31, 2019 02:59AM
Well said Brent.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 07:26AM
The N/A minis are a waste of my time, and a waste of their money when they go to BG. All they do is slow down the show. That rule will never go through
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 07:35AM
Quote
theRightRearTire183
The N/A minis are a waste of my time, and a waste of their money when they go to BG. All they do is slow down the show. That rule will never go through

Well, if there are minimum engine requirements to run a GN mod class (at least in unlimiteds, not sure about 7500 mods), there is at least a logical consistency having a minimum requirement for a GN mini class. I'd go even further and limit small blocks also.
We don't see LLSS running GN LSS classes for example.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2019 07:36AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 07:43AM
Where can the proposed rules be found? Can someone post a link? Thanks
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 07:59AM
Here you go: http://cdn1.ntpapull.com/images/2019/Rules_Proposal_for_2020_NTPA_Season.pdf


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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 03:27PM
Man that looks like a bunch of ef'd rule proposals to me!
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 09:39AM
And they should really let the radial reactor run. They make a really good case to let them in
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 09:52AM
I see they are asking about adding LLSS to a couple of regions. I hope they add it to all regions and use the National LLSS Rules with the exception of the big diesels getting a big turbo. If anything the smaller diesels need a bigger turbo.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 11:05AM
They do need to limit the overdrive because of safety they are turning the super chargers faster than sfi approved
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 11:28AM
Never mind i am wrong
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 30, 2019 10:16AM
Well I’m running the GN lss class with a llss next year so sorry in advance for slowing the show down
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 01:31PM
The proposed rules from Hoosier state say no front suspension but also pro stock chassis rules.. If those rules pass, will in TPA set the rules for the regions the same? I’m pretty sure WTPA has a little different rules.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 01:57PM
Is for letting screw blowers in the 7500lb mod class. If we let them run three screws in the mod class this will completely eliminate the 14-71 tractors. We aren’t competitive in the lite class which would probably lead to us toward running 4- 8-71 engines on GN and then 3 engines in the region and state, which we know isn’t welcomed by some. I myself like the option of pulling in different classes esp region and moving up to gn a few times a year. I also understand the screw tractors want to run more also. Leave them in the unlimited classes or let them run the twin in mod. They are ever so impressive but I think allowing them in mod will lead to a trickle down effect, clear to region. But to eat my own words, every modified tractor in the country needs more vehicles so what’s the correct answer? Ryan Writsel
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 02:07PM
Quote
Ryan Writsel
Is for letting screw blowers in the 7500lb mod class. If we let them run three screws in the mod class this will completely eliminate the 14-71 tractors. We aren’t competitive in the lite class which would probably lead to us toward running 4- 8-71 engines on GN and then 3 engines in the region and state, which we know isn’t welcomed by some. I myself like the option of pulling in different classes esp region and moving up to gn a few times a year. I also understand the screw tractors want to run more also. Leave them in the unlimited classes or let them run the twin in mod. They are ever so impressive but I think allowing them in mod will lead to a trickle down effect, clear to region. But to eat my own words, every modified tractor in the country needs more vehicles so what’s the correct answer? Ryan Writsel

Ryan, I think the highlighted sentence is the best option. 2 screw/18-71, 3 14-71, 4 8-71 would add lots of variety.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2019 02:29PM by The Original Michael.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 11:40PM
If the only variety is the size and type of blower on a hemi that is not variety. With numbers what they are maybe running off all the aircraft pullers wasn't such a good idea after all! All in the name of "safety" of course! Mod class was better in the old days when you just had to make weight and pull! All these limits have saved no one any money, they've just cost more MADE you buy hemis if you want to win. Take the limits off the aircraft powerplants and add some variety!
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 02, 2019 01:49PM
Fan ,
The rules for the Allisons was changed over the winter to allow them more blower overdrive. Last Friday in Waeseon Oh. the Top Gun tractor ran in RN class for the first time and split the win with Tarry on the Feissty Farmer. They were within 2' of each other and got past me by 10'+ on the first pass so I think the Allisons are well within reason. The turbines also got more HP for this past year.

S'no Farmer
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 04:48PM
This will just eliminate the region guys looking to step up that run 1471 blowers. I oppose this proposal plain and simple. Unlimited is where screw and 1871 blowers belong.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 04:51PM
I am also in favor of the 2 screw/1871 unlimited OD, 3 1471's with 70 OD and 4 871's with 45 OD.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 28, 2019 03:15PM
They've been limiting the airplane power plants for years if I'm not mistaken. The only thing "unlimited" anymore is the cost.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 29, 2019 12:19AM
as far as the mod class goes, two screws wouldn't keep up and three would not be a good idea in my opinion. the 125% on the unlimited is a joke and would make that class a 8000 lbs modified and no longer the unlimited class. and just so everyone knows, we at Boyds aren't even close to being unsafe on our screw blowers, even if we break a driveline we have rev chips that will catch it several thousand rpms under sfi safety ratings and those sfi ratings are 20% under what they spin at to aquire the rating to start with. This is just as some have stated on here already, it's a Boyd rule. These screw blowers have been in this class for years and nothing said until Steve Boyd has one win. come on people, wake up. and if we at boyds thought for a second that we were unsafe then we wouldn't be running the screws.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 30, 2019 03:26AM
What about the 540 LSS diesel proposal!?

Not sure if bigger bombs is the answer for a DSS. Wonder if the bigger cubes would get someone to build a competitive LSS. Imagine Ross, Blagrave, or Travis's motor in a LSS.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 30, 2019 02:18AM
A couple of thoughts:

On page 2, it mentions that it has been proven that not all TWD competitors have been pulling at the required hitch height. Looking through the 2019 results, I only see two instances of disqualification that had no note as to what the DQ was given for, so without knowledge of those two events, these two competitors could have ran out of bounds, as well. That doesn't make it seem as if this form of cheating is running rampant in the class... So, is NTPA "proving" that pullers are fudging their hitch height and then just sweeping it under the rug? Or are we just crying wolf?

As far as the proposal, I do like the idea of checking the hitch height after the run but also having it where competitors can check their setup before their pass.

On page 5, it proposes that a puller "has to run all of the events to collect points." Based on this wording, it leads me to believe that if a puller misses one event, then they automatically forfeit any chance of collecting points money at the end of the year. As an example: Red Line Fever missed both sessions of Rockwell, Iowa this year yet finished fourth in the DSS points. So, if my interpretation of this proposal is correct, they are saying that Esdon wouldn't be able to collect any points money.

What does this proposal accomplish?


John Murray
Two-time Pedal Pull World Champion

Let's Go Pulling, covering the sport of pulling in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 30, 2019 02:50AM
I realize this will sound rather cynical, however sometimes I wonder if Larry R. doesn't just send up trial balloons to check rule proposals and complaints to see which way the wind will blow them. I'm wondering if the ones that have no names are just test balloons. Just wondering!


Dick Morgan

www.PULLOFF.com
Independent Pulling News



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2019 03:09AM by Dick Morgan.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 30, 2019 03:11PM
Quote
Dick Morgan
test balloons.

test balloons? Oh man that a good one! lol Smiling
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules August 30, 2019 01:43PM
On twd hitch there was no disqualification. I think this could be adapted for all classes. Most other motorsports have to pass a post run inspection why should pulling be any different. I say weigh after the run and forget ahead of time, pullers no what we weigh only issue is getting scales to read same everywhere. If would work it make staging go a lot smoother.

Lance Fleming
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And what if they do?? August 31, 2019 08:43AM
So what if NTPA or PPL passes new rules? Who’s gonna inforce them?? When’s the last time you’ve seen anything besides hitch height & weight checked at a pull?
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Re: And what if they do?? August 31, 2019 10:34AM
So you have never been checked? Went to a PPL pull last year with are LLSS and was turbo checked. This year in Badger State we were checked for fuel and turbo.
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Re: And what if they do?? August 31, 2019 02:23PM
I wonder when any organization is going to ACTUALLY check cubic inches of a motor.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 02, 2019 04:16AM
have the scale set up at the end of the track and it is up to the competitor if he chooses to weigh and check their hitch prior to the show.
Then everyone gets checked at end instead of beginning. If people believe there are issues in those areas that would absolutely take care of it. Would not take more help which is usually the argument just people in a different spot.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 02, 2019 05:47AM
How do we determine how much fuel water was used , how much tire pressure increased?
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 02, 2019 09:15AM
It don't matter how much fuel or water was used should be the weight with everything full then after the run will be plenty light all is good! Need tire pressure figured out for drawbar ahead of time no different than it is now when done it will be fine if it wasn't to high to start with. I agree with Chuck can make everything go smoother and less wondering if things are all on up and up.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 02, 2019 01:22PM
The one issue I could see with this setup is that there could be a lot of congestion and confusion at this scale. If you are in the last class and the current class is weighing out it could get to be impossible for someone in the later classes to check there weight and hitch.

S'no Farmer
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 04, 2019 07:39AM
Quote
Lance_Fleming
It don't matter how much fuel or water was used should be the weight with everything full then after the run will be plenty light all is good! Need tire pressure figured out for drawbar ahead of time no different than it is now when done it will be fine if it wasn't to high to start with. I agree with Chuck can make everything go smoother and less wondering if things are all on up and up.

How do you know the weight of every thing full if you don't weigh before?
How much is plenty light? 5lbs 50 lbs 100lbs?
How much fuel does a 5 engine UL mod burn? 20 gallons at 7lbs per gallon?
Does a 4 engine burn the same amount?
If you are weighing after , there has to be a set empty weight max.
How much do the tires grow when the get hot after a pass?
Does everyone's tires grow the same?
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 11, 2019 03:30AM
The current NTPA Rules making procedure has come a long ways in the past 50 years. During my time in the CSPC days the rules making process was all arguement and pullers need more money, Association needs less.

The Divisional committee structure is the best conduit for rules to make it to the NTPA board. The discussion period and the "agenda" items are perfect for an Association membership. On this Forum alone, you can see the diverse opinion many items. That is good and helps drive the NTPA forward.

Some items are just repeats for 20 years ago and can be easily dismissed. Seriously, thanks for the items or drawbar/scale concrete pads, etc. those were addressed before some of you were even born. Just recently attended two great pulls, I sat next to CONCRETE pad and talked with a handful of fans and pullers who were pissed about the ways events were run, PROVE of TWD hitch violations--taking a tape measure to prove drawbar cheating, scales weights NOT CERTIFIED, --amazing everyone weights in all classes and only two teams have issues etc. Oh the scales/drawbar were on concrete pads, I made sure I pointed that out to the people who bitched....."oh yea, well....I also made sure that they were aware that NTPA takes sanctioning events seriously and for DECADES has made sure that event sites include concrete pads, toilet paper. etc.

The screw blower, turbo, procharger, items etc. are what is good about the sport. The advancement of technology is great but in some circumstances will have it's limits. Whats good for one class may not hold true for the other. Pro charger Mini v TWD. The TECH Items requirement discussion and good deliberation.

Many items are NOT TECH related, but are operation of contest, points, Shell Rotella Cup, etc. These items are often misunderstood and are not really in the pullers control. Over the years NTPA has had a stable rules making process. No drastic changes for the competitor. The return to "bingo ball" random number items is a great example of this type of nonsense. In 1990 I was laughed out of the room by suggesting this change away from poker chips/bingo ball machines to entry. Now, a streamline entry system (with computers no less) is questioned again? Why? Cuz the entry clerk can't "reroll" your number? A random generated computer (on no) number is easy and seamless and makes the sport better. See what an incredible amount time, energy went in to just talking about the "bingo ball" system. I will admit that teams with multi entries have to pull back to back.....but do what the BIG BOY TEAMS do, have an organized crew and plan and work with it.

The segment of the NTPA Rules making process will take place this weekend at THE ENDERLE. It will be interesting to see what becomes of the recommendations. Hopefully. rules will be made to enhance the sport, not take it back to the days of the coffee can and poker chips to determine the pulling order.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 03, 2019 09:10AM
WHY NOT JUST MAKE A PAD OR PLACE TO CHECK DRAW BARS AFTER PULLERS HOOKS AND SPOT CHECK TRACTORS AS THEY COME OFF TRACK FOR WEIGHT .IF THERES 10 IN CLASS HAVE THE PERSON CHECKING DRAW BARS AT END SEND 3 TRACTOR TO SCALE AFTER THEY HOOK BUT DON'T TELL THEM BEFOR HAND
AND LET PULLERS THEM SELF SET THERE OWN HITCHES MAKE DRAW BAR OFFICE AFTER HOOK
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 03, 2019 12:58PM
I think you guys are smoking crack. I have never been to 3 pulls in a row and had the scale read the same. So you would be weighting every tractor twice. Because no one would trust that the scale be the same.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 03, 2019 01:26PM
We all buy memberships for ntpa to take care of these things maybe they could just check hitches or weights after a pull once in a while at a event and make us a little scared of the tech and maybe have to worry about getting dqed at this current time nobody scared of getting checked for anything. why do we always need a rule maybe their is one certain person that needs to retire or step up.
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 04, 2019 08:40AM
No on above idea I every one would do as They do at every event weigh in and draw bar but after hook recheck draw bars and spot check couple tractors on weight to keep them on up and up
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 04, 2019 03:12PM
Yrs ago you always went back to the scale at least here in Michigan we did
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 13, 2019 02:50PM
What new rules or new class did Ntpa come up with today
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Re: Ntpa proposed rules September 15, 2019 08:04AM
What came out of the rule meeting
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