09:13:40pm, Sunday, May 19, 2024
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burning pistons
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frogger
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We are having trouble burning up our pistons. We can not use water injection so that would be the main problem and maybe we were running it to lean. That being said, what would anyone recommend? Should we try some billet pistons, will these burn up as easy? Where is a good place to get some? What do they cost? Also, what is the most valve relief anyone has ever had? Any advice on the pistons would be great. Thanks |
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Re: burning pistons
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try this
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ceramic coat the pistons. This will help some. |
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Re: burning pistons
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frogger
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We have had them coated with ceramic or something like that. They lasted longer, but still melted. |
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Re: burning pistons
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A.P.
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You might try spraying oil on the bottoms of the pistons or increasing the flow if you have enough capacity to do so. This would be in addition to the ceramic coating. An intercooler will also help if allowed. |
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Re: burning pistons
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h2o for Gods sake
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You, and your club, need to pull your heads out of yer XXX. WHAT is the deal with some of you pulling clubs?? NOT allowing water???? That is just plain stupidity. WHAT is the purpose of NOT allowing it?? Do you all have such an abundance of extra cash that it's no big deal burning up an engine every other run?? How about tires??? Are you allowing tires or are you still on steel?? Are you pulling on the Sahara Desert where there is a shortage of water?? Are you pulling on Mars where there IS no water??? Someone enlighten me and tell me ONE good reason for banning water. |
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Re: burning pistons
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maybe its cause they are runing in a farm class and last i checked no farm tractor would need water in it to keep from melting a piston |
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Re: burning pistons
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h2o for Gods sake
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Oh; is that a fact??? John Deere B's and A's were using water in the 30's and 40's. It was used to keep things cool and make them last longer. Guess what??? IT WORKED!!! I have farmer friends that have been using water, alcohol, water/alcohol blends for YEARS in their field tractors JUST as a preventitive for scoring a cylinder. The ban on the use of WATER is JUST PLAIN IDIOTIC. You'd think that water was some kind of secret weapon only available to the wealthy. If cost is the reason, because it would require a pump........then put it in a container that is pressure worthy and use booste pressure to inject it. Wake up. It's not rocket science. You'd think that the use of water was more complicated than E=MC(2). It's no wonder that this world is as messed up as it is with reasoning like that out there. |
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Re: burning pistons
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h20 in a farm tractor
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You didnt really answer froggers question, and you are one dumb S.O.B.!! water in a farm tractor doing fieldwork!!!!! never ever heard or seen this in all my years. do they do fieldwork in road gear and carry a milk tank full of water with them so they have enough to last all day!!? we have some pretty good running farm tractors in our area pulling and they dont run water. next time you should think before you open your mouth D.A. |
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Re: burning pistons
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yes water in farm tractor
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In fact the former M&W gear co. from Gibson City, Illinois had a kit for an IH. It was boost activated. If I rmember right the kit came with a tank to mount on the front of the tractor.(Kind of like the front aux. fuel tanks on older model Deere's and IH's. The main purpose of it was to increase hp. and save fuel. Not to cool pistons. I don't think it went over very well and M&W discontinued it. If someone knows different about it, tell me. |
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Re: burning pistons
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puller from out there
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John Deere made a water injection valve on there model D which the tractor was made for big open fields to conserve feul. I have a 1936 model D completely restored and it has one on there and I have a valve sitting in a box brand new never used. So yes they did make them on some farm tractors even if it is old and is a 2 banger!! 
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Re: burning pistons
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30.5's
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if adding water to yor fuel tank greated hp & fuel eco. then everybody and there brother would do it and since they dont apparently it dont work so well on (farm tractors). |
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Re: burning pistons
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puller from out there
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Well smart guy. I never said it was just added in there tank and I never said it worked and made more power and better economy. All I said was Deere and Company used it on actual tractors in the field to increase better economy. Being they never used it on other models I am guessing it didn't work as well as intended. |
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Re: burning pistons
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I heard
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I read some where ,during ww II US fighter planes was using water injection to increase HP. And apparantly it did work.Problem was the Germans was using nitros.When it comes down to it,a whole lot, if not most, high performance stuff origanally came from the military. Heard. |
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Re: burning pistons
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SD Outlaw fan
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Even the early model Boeing 707 & McDonnell Douglas DC-8 passenger planes used water injection during takeoff. |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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On the old D & GP John Deere water was misted or sucked in in front of the carb ,they did this to help stop detonation or knock when they where pulling hard as in plowing , on a hot afternoon it was nothing to use 2 to 3 gallons of water. There was a tube that hooked into the water jacket of the block and to a valve on the carb so that the driver could adjust the amount of water . Back in the 20's and 30's it was common to do this because the fuel that they had then was so poor and no very well refined , it was called tractor fuel and was a penny or two cheaper then gas . If you compared it today's fuel it would be like a #3 or #4 dsl fuel . Back then you started the tractor on gas and when it warmed up you then switched it to tractor fuel to do your field work and then you always had to switch it back to gas at the end of day or it was a b*t*h to get it started again . As time went on the fuel got better and the compression of the motors went up the water was not needed anymore . In the 70's or 80's there was some kits made for cars that misted water into the top of the air cleaner to help get better fuel mileage because gas went up to over $1 . |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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It was also used in the 1943 Allison V12 engine. It was called ADI (Anti Detonation Injection). It was supposed to be a 50/50 water/alcohol mix. |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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It was used on kerosene fueled tractors. |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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FROGGER SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE RUNNING LEAN. WHAT I WOULD DO IS BUY A PYROMETER AND TRY TO MONITOR THE EXHAUST TEMP. TRY RUNNING AROUND 1400 TO 1500 USE FUEL AND TIMING TO REGULATE HEAT. ALSO JUST GUESSING BUT IT IS PROBABLY SAFE TO SAY THAT IT WAS NUMBER 5 OR 6 COULD COOLING BE A PROBLEM. I LIKE THE IDEA OF INCREASING OIL FLOW THRU THE NOZZLES BUT DON'T DO IT WITH INCREASED PRESSURE. |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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Red Rider gave you some good info. Just for the record, water injection is used on all kinds of engines both diesel and gas. Best results are with turbo charged diesels. We run it on over the road 18 wheelers. Kits for water/methanol injection are available from some caterpillar dealers. Antrim Diesel in Greencastle Pa has alot of experience with high performance pulling vehicles and can help you. I am sure there are other places closer to you that can also help. |
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Re: burning pistons
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h2o for Gods sake
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Judging from the posts that have followed yours, "Oh Exalted One", Maybe YOU should think before you open YOUR mouth D.A. Just because YOU never heard of it, doesn't mean it never happened. It did/does happen and it works. I asked for "One GOOD Reason" to BAN water. So far NO ONE has come up with one, including YOU Wise AXX. |
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Re: burning pistons
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h2o for Gods sake
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My post was in response to H2O in a farm tractor |
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Re: burning pistons
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answerer
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Here's the reason. If you've done enough to your tractor to burn pistons you've done to much for this class. It's inteded to keep it to tractors that are simply turned up field tractors. If you want to be a big fish jump into the big pond. |
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Re: burning pistons
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h2o for Gods sake
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Pretty lame reasoning there Mr. "Answerer". IF that truly is the case, and someone has done TOO much to their tractor, I'm sure you and your lynch mob will be right there with your clubs, torches and pitch forks to take it away from the guy, and ban him for life and one day. I use water on my diesel truck to keep the egts down and that's because it IS turned up. It would run and live without the water, but why take the chance when the principle is SO simple and SO cheap?? Quit being such a knot head. |
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Re: burning pistons
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Registered: 06/17/2008 Posts: 137 |
Unless rules have changed in recent years, 9500 farm stock in ill does not allow water, and they usually run road gear, or a tooth one way or the other---the common response from folks at the pulls was, no water allowed, meant they did have to check the water to see it was legal----most were turning up pumps to an usually high cc per 1000 to keep temp in cylinders reasonable, but smoked like freight trains, for a 2750 rpm class!!!! |
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Re: burning pistons
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firewood hauler
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h20 you must be pulling a firewood hauler were rules are like well! never followed any way. what a bunch of high strung pin heads |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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your correct the 9500# doesnt run water and we pretty much pull one or two teeth over road gear at every pull while keeping egt at 1750 or below without WATER |
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Re: burning pistons
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Registered: 03/26/2008 Posts: 496 |
You took the words right out of my mouth!!!!! JW |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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I do not want to get into this debate on whether or not the stock class should allow water. One thing that will help to cool it is to overfuel it slightly. Adding more and more fuel to a stock engine will raise the pyrometer temperature to the point of over fueling it and then as you add more and more fuel , the pyro temp will actually come down. The only draw back is that this extra fuel will hurt performance slightly. |
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Re: burning pistons
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h2o for Gods sake
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Yaaa.........THAT makes GOOD sense...............let's cool it down with $5 a gallon diesel as opposed to water which is $5 a tanker full........yep...
makes perfect sense to me............. Hey maa..........is our stimulus check here yet????? If'n it is........ahh think awl mosey on inta town an put a down payment on a tanker full o' engine coolin' deesull................ya know.........fer trakker pullin' Don't ferget ta shut the winn mill off befur ya go ta bed...............awl be late ah talkin' to da boyz about what else we can ban at da trakker pullz. |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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If you are paying $5.00 for diesel you arent the brightest bulb in the pack. |
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Re: burning pistons
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h2o for Gods sake
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Seth: If you're cooling your engine with massive amounts of diesel when water would do the same thing, then, I would say YOU'RE not the brightest bulb in the pack. I suppose you want to ban spinner knobs too. While yer at it.........might as well ban synthetic oils and greases, water pump lube, sharpened tires, engine girdles, billet rods, billet cams, gear drive cams, slipper clutches, chrome exhaust pipes, moly rings, gap-less rings and whatever else your feeble brain comes up with. |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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Dude you really stepped on your dick on this one, my 1066 IH has a gear drive cam from the factory. Do you even know WTF you are spouting off about? Besides i never once said anything about banning anything, cmon lets see what else you can pull ou of your ass. |
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Re: burning pistons
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attitude checker
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Man h2o you are one mouthy deranged person with an anger management problem. all the guy did was ask advice & you go tearin apart his class & everybody else that disagrees with your opinion, which by the way opinions are like xxx holes, everybody's got one. so why dont you shut your stupid mouth unless you have some good advice. your probably just a keyboard puller anyways... |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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Pyrometers are your friend and yes timing and fuel will help. What are your charger limits? What kind of injectors are you running? Specs on the engine will help. If you don't want to post them publicly then PM them to me.
BTW the idea behind no water in farm stock is to keep it fair for the local guys that want a place to come pull their tractors that are straight out of the field. Everybody needs a place to start, you can't just throw them in the deep end of the pool right away. That's why we make classes for tractors that aren't stock, but also didn't feel like spending enough money to go hot farm. |
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Re: burning pistons
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frogger
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I have got to say this is kind of comical to read all the comments. So thanks for that, laughter is the best medicine. We are running a 3000 rpm, A-pump class so it is not farm stock. I think water injection would be great, but these are the rules and we follow them. I would like to know about the billet pistons if any one has any advice. If you don't mind me asking Tractor Dr, where might you be from? |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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could a bad injecter cause you to burn a hole? |
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Re: burning pistons
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4430
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I think H2o has been breathing to much co2. Take a real deep breath there partner |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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I dunno I need more info since im not a hot farm guy with an agenda like H2O whatever his name was!! What exactly is happening to your pistons? Don't give me this billet crap I' have seen GMS pistons tweak the valve relief in far enough to hit a valve so it is possible your spraying outside your bowl and if your looking for more info on fighter planes running water/alocohol Ricardo did all the research on it before you were born. They did this so the planes would have more HP at higher altitudes I guess "He who flies high wins wars"anyway the rest is true lots of fuel will coool you down after you get over the hump otherwise it will make you hotter that is true tming willl cool you down true but if your already past the point need a new plan. |
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Re: burning pistons
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I think the M&W kit referenced earlier in this thread was probably the Torque Topper kit, which injected LP gas, not water. There were a number of 806"s and 4020"s with turbos that used them in my area in the late 60"s and early 70"s They really increased power as I recall, and I don't remember any real problems with them. |
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Re: burning pistons
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PaRedPuller
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H2Ofor gods sake need to read this, Tractor Dr. answered the question and explained it well. We all know water will keep it cool, give more power but this is farmstock. I would say if you are having that much trouble maybe you are pushing it too much and should jump up to a hot farm type class that allows water. |
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Re: burning pistons
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h2o for Gods sake
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Seth: What do you mean you never said anything about banning anything?? You're on your milkcrate supporting the ban on water. Dohhhhhh!!!!
You and Homer Simson need to team up. attitude checker: WHAT DO YOU MEAN THAT I HAVE AN ANGER MANAGEMENT PROBLEM???? Oh..........I'm sorry.........I didn't mean to hurt your feelings........I'll come to your next Brotherly Love meeting and YOU can fix me..........OK??? PaRed Puller: I understand what the Trakkter Dokkter is saying. My point is: You guys, and others out there, are banning one of the CHEAPEST, and SIMPLEST forms of protecting your engine, and there's really no reasoning for it..........it's pure STOO PID UH TEE. I can see the banning of nitrous and nitro and other forms of oxygenated fuels in STOCK classes. I have no problem with that...........it's the water thing that is SO knuckle headed. Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but, this keyboard puller was ACTUALLY pulling his keyboard down the track, pouring massive amounts of WATER on it to keep it cool. Look............it still works..............last one in the CEEEEMENT POND is a rotten egg........... |
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Re: burning pistons
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up north
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It seems to me that what the rules are doing is limiting the cost and work that the pullers do to their tractor. Of course the addition of water will make it run better, cooler, make it last longer, etc, etc....BUT since they are not allowed to run water there are only so many things that can be done to the tractor before it starts to melt, just like frogger's is now. Do you see what I mean? No need for a huge set of rules that people will just find a way around anyway. So just don't let them have water, that way if a tractor starts running away from the pack he's gonna either have to tone it down or risk melting it every time he pulls. And yes billit pistons would be the way to go. Find a builder who will talk to you and help you out. Or maybe an experienced puller in your area can point you in the right direction. |
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Re: burning pistons
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Anonymous User
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h2o for Gods sake Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Seth: What do you mean you never said anything > about banning anything?? You're on your milkcrate > supporting the ban on water. Dohhhhhh!!!! > You and Homer Simson need to team up. > > > attitude checker: WHAT DO YOU MEAN THAT I HAVE AN > ANGER MANAGEMENT PROBLEM???? Oh..........I'm > sorry.........I didn't mean to hurt your > feelings........I'll come to your next Brotherly > Love meeting and YOU can fix me..........OK??? > > PaRed Puller: I understand what the Trakkter > Dokkter is saying. > > My point is: You guys, and others out there, are > banning one of the CHEAPEST, and SIMPLEST forms of > protecting your engine, and there's really no > reasoning for it..........it's pure STOO PID UH > TEE. I can see the banning of nitrous and nitro > and other forms of oxygenated fuels in STOCK > classes. I have no problem with > that...........it's the water thing that is SO > knuckle headed. > > Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but, > this keyboard puller was ACTUALLY pulling his > keyboard down the track, pouring massive amounts > of WATER on it to keep it cool. > Look............it still works..............last > one in the CEEEEMENT POND is a rotten > egg........... H20 please go back and quote me where i said anything about banning something. |
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