How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 15, 2020 08:54AM
Jake mentioned something in another thread that merits discussion-
How many classes should be offered for a Champions Tour/Grand National points championship?

PPL currently offers 10 Champions Tour (Mod, USS, PS, SF, TWD, FWD, MI, Semi, LSS, SSD FWD),
plus 2 additional National Championships in their Silver Series (Limited Pro tractor and Pro Stock Diesel truck).

NTPA offers 13 Grand National classes (Unlimited, Mod, Light Unlimited, OSS, DSS, PS, SF, TWD, FWD, Mi, Semi, LSS, SSD FWD).

Is this the right amount? Too many? Not enough? What would your ideal lineup of Champions Tour/Grand National points classes comprise?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2020 08:54AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 15, 2020 10:07AM
Unlimited Mods, SS Tractors all fuels, Ltss, Minis, Prostock tractors, Twd, Fwd all fuels, 6000 mod open to turbines and allisons and other motors not just 2 hemis with screws
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 15, 2020 11:10PM
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Greg kuntzman
Unlimited Mods, SS Tractors all fuels, Ltss, Minis, Prostock tractors, Twd, Fwd all fuels, 6000 mod open to turbines and allisons and other motors not just 2 hemis with screws
That's pretty darn close to my list as well. The only thing I'd really change is the Heavy/Unlimited mod class. I'd drop the rules down for the Hemis (and I'd drop the name "Unlimited" to Heavy Mods) to allow other combinations to be competitive. Watching a purely 4 and (sometimes 5) hemi class has lost some of it's appeal for me. I'd love to see Mod classes like Europe has that have rules that encourage different engine combinations.


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Re: Directly related issue October 16, 2020 02:11AM
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Jake Morgan

Unlimited Mods, SS Tractors all fuels, Ltss, Minis, Prostock tractors, Twd, Fwd all fuels, 6000 mod open to turbines and allisons and other motors not just 2 hemis with screws
That's pretty darn close to my list as well. The only thing I'd really change is the Heavy/Unlimited mod class. I'd drop the rules down for the Hemis (and I'd drop the name "Unlimited" to Heavy Mods) to allow other combinations to be competitive. Watching a purely 4 and (sometimes 5) hemi class has lost some of it's appeal for me. I'd love to see Mod classes like Europe has that have rules that encourage different engine combinations.

At risk of hijacking my own topic (though directly related to which GN classes are offered), I'd like to see NTPA totally reimagine what a Grand National event is. The main idea is, instead of random classes, there would be one event winner per class. The basic model would be what Bowling Green did at their 50th anniversary in 2016, where each class had two hooks and the finals for enlarged purse decided the overall winner.

Depending on how many GN classes are offered/scheduled, this means at least 3 sessions, but depending on size of event could easily be 5 or 6 for a mega event. At shortest Friday night, Saturday afternoon, Finals Saturday night. If longer, it could be Rockwell format (Thurs and Fri nights, Sat afternoon, Finals Sat night) or 2 Friday sessions, Sat afternoon, Finals Sat night, on up to a mega event like BG 2016 (Thurs night, 2 sessions Fri and Sat, Finals Sunday).

If every GN class should be at every GN event, then there would be overall fewer GN classes offered. Conversely, if it's ok to do what pulling has done forever, and let the promoter pick and choose which classes, then more classes offered mean more possible simultaneous events.

To repeat the main point- It's a question of just what a Grand National should be. If it should be (imo) a very special, larger event, then fewer classes would work. Final point- for overall future health of the sport, just because something has always been done a certain way, doesn't mean that's the best way to market the sport in the future.
Come up with 8-10 GN classes, and have fewer (but larger) events, each class has 2 prelim rounds and Finals, and declare an overall event class winner.

Here is a thread from months back in Pulloff.com where some good ideas were presented.
Past discussions with good ideas



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2020 02:34AM by The Original Michael.
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 16, 2020 01:06AM
Good luck getting 4WD pullers to agree on rules. And say goodbye to any DSS that don't want to run with the Alkys
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 16, 2020 12:14AM
hvy ss, lt ss, hvy mod lt mod at a lighter wt, super mod twd, open fwd sit down with competitors and those willing to try and make it happen, pro stock and mini plus some other type class so that the mini sled has two classes after all we are talking the top level it shouldn't be for every competitor nor every tractor or truck
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 16, 2020 01:13AM
Just some thoughts.

Champions Tour
1. Heavy Mods
2. Unlimited Supers
3. 2WD Trucks
4. Mini Rods

Silver Series
1. 4wd Trucks
2. Super Farms
3. Light Supers
4. Light Limited Modified Tractor Class

King of Smoke Series
1. Pro Stock Tractors
2. Limited Pro's
3. Light Limited Pro's

Extreme Diesel Truck Series
1. SSD FWD Trucks
2. Pro Stock Diesel Trucks
3. Limited Pro Diesel Trucks
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 16, 2020 04:36AM
I would like to see a Champ tour or GN tour with one of each type of chassis for the most part or maybe each chassis with each type of fuel. I feel like it should be the top classes for each Chassis, for Example:

TWD
Minis
FWD Gas and Diesel
SSD and SS Alky tractors
Unlimited Chassis (4/5 engine combos)
Super Semis

I may be leaving a class out but I feel like there are too many tractor classes at the GN level, both Mod and regular chassis.
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 16, 2020 01:57PM
GN:

6500 Lb Mods.
8500 Lb Mods
7500 Lb SS D only
9000 Lb SS D only
9500 Lb PS
6200 Lb 2wd
Minis

That’s it.
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 17, 2020 12:00AM
GN
4X4 6500 lb. Gas Modified Trucks (Open NA cubic inch or a twin turbo single stage combo with EFI allowed with a Cubic inch limit / a single Pro Charger combo with EFI allowed with a Cubic inch limit)

2 Wheel Drive 6500 lb. Modified Trucks

Light Super Stock Tractors ( 6250 lb. Alcohol/6500 Diesel lb.)

4X4 7500 lb. Super Stock Diesel Trucks

Modified Tractors 6500 (any engine combinations)

10,000 Pro Stock Tractors.

Unlimited Mini Rods (EFI Legal)

Pro Diesel Tractor (Light Pro/Limited Pro at 9000 lbs.)
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? November 19, 2020 05:22AM
If you have PS, why on earth would you have diesel only SS? Much less two classes? Make it a class of LSS and HSS, both open to all fuels, and you have it about right. Though should probably add 4WD as well.
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 17, 2020 07:25AM
"Imagine if you will..."
10,000 lb Heavy Pro Stock Tractors (only changes to modern-day being drop the cubes to 640, & stay with the 6x6 turbo)
8,000 lb Heavy Super Stock Tractors (use existing PPL unlimited super rules)
8,000 lb Light Pro Stock Tractors (same as a 10 pro, except 540 or 510 cubes, and a 4.5x4.5 turbo)
6,000 lb Light Super Stock (maybe allow a diesel the extra weight to go 540 CI with 4 chargers?)
8,000 lb Super Modified Tractors (base engine limitations on 12,000 hp)
2050 lb Mini Rods
18,000 lb Pro Stock Semis (single chargers, let's face it the days of 4 turbo semis are over)
6,200 lb Super Modified 2wd Trucks (buckets & other bodies allowed)
6,200 lb Pro Modified 4x4 Trucks (unlimited cubic inches, 5" bore spacing, 135" wheelbase)
7,500 lb Super Stock Diesel Trucks
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? October 18, 2020 04:37AM
Dropping the weight in limited pro is silly and just keeps more tractors out.

540 light pro should be at least a 9k class.

All this light weight everything just makes things money hogs to build for not a huge uptick in durability.
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? November 13, 2020 07:53AM
1993 NTPA GN
7500 pound Mod, Unlimited
Mini Rod
7500 pound Super Stock
9500 pound Super Stock
10,000 Pro Stock
Four Wheel Drive
Two Wheel Drive
Semi

13 GN events.
Tomah had 5500 Supers, Hamburg had Semis, not sure of any PS hooks.
Chapel Hill had the "typical" GN - Unl-Fwd-Twd-Super stocks 7 & 9...

At that time with Chevrolet, Kendall and US Tobacco 15 would have been pretty much max for GN events.
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? November 18, 2020 02:25PM
I like what some people are saying, but I think we are fine just the way we are as to NTPA and PPL. Maybe we should cut some classes as to USS because that's basically one of the smallest classes, and it keeps getting smaller year by year. I am kind of annoyed at the one fact that everybody forgets the Super farm tractors in their personal lists. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you think super farm ain't that great of a class but go to BG or Tomah for example. They get at least 40 or more tractors each hook. It went down a few years at Tomah just because they went to regional, but if they go back the numbers are sure to rise again. Here's my list:
Super farm
PS
SS combo (dss and uss)
lss
unl
mod
lt unl
mini
twd
fwd
ssd fwd
semi
I think this is a good list because honestly now a days with the technology, dss can compete with uss. I understand that I didn't add lim/light ps just because I think they should stay at a regional national level. THIS LIST ALSO IS FOR PPL! If we add these two classes, that's alot of ps comp, big and small. One thing I would like to see is THE ULTIMATE COMPETITION. This competition would have 12,000 pro stock, 10,500 ss and open unlimited, the old days where a super stock could hook with the mods. Please write back and give me your thoughts.
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? November 18, 2020 02:43PM
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Tomah winner
One thing I would like to see is THE ULTIMATE COMPETITION. This competition would have 12,000 pro stock, 10,500 ss and open unlimited, the old days where a super stock could hook with the mods. Please write back and give me your thoughts.

I believe the SFI certification for a 3 bar cage is only 10,000 lbs. Aside from that, a 10,500 SS 12000 PS (if you can find a puller that wants to throw that much weight on their tractor) is still way overmatched by an unlimited modified.
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Re: How many Champions Tour/Grand National classes should there be? November 22, 2020 02:26PM
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The Original Michael

One thing I would like to see is THE ULTIMATE COMPETITION. This competition would have 12,000 pro stock, 10,500 ss and open unlimited, the old days where a super stock could hook with the mods. Please write back and give me your thoughts.

I believe the SFI certification for a 3 bar cage is only 10,000 lbs. Aside from that, a 10,500 SS 12000 PS (if you can find a puller that wants to throw that much weight on their tractor) is still way overmatched by an unlimited modified.

Well, I know that, but I would still like to see it happen.
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